The New York Times has a useful summary, and we’re getting a more detailed picture from the Union of Concerned Scientists, which includes scientists and nuclear engineers with direct familiarity with the 1970s era General Electric boiling water reactor designs used at the station. The UCS are more prone to explain the risk analysis than government officials understandably concerned about public panic and safety.
Here’s what appears to be happening.
1. As soon as the earthquake began, all the Japanese nukes began their automatic shutdown sequences. That’s what they’re supposed to do. Control rods that help separate the radioactive fuel rods/elements and reduce the heat buildup were immediately inserted. As far as we know, this worked at every reactor.
2. When this happens, the cooling water system, run by electric pumps, is supposed to continue circulating water through the reactor vessel containing the fuel rods, to continue to remove their heat. However this system runs on electricity from the grid or from backup generators. The grid was damaged, so the plant was isolated.
3. With grid electricity unavailable, all plants automatically activate back-up, on-site generators, probably fueled by diesel. The diesel generators provide enough electricity to keep the control rooms functioning and to operate the electric pumps that continue to circulate water over the reactor core to continue its cooling. This normal back-up system worked at almost all plants until . . .
4. The tsunami hit the Fukushima station and apparently damaged the back-up diesel generators. At this point, Units 1 and 2 were without power from either the grid or back-up generators. It was flying blind.
5. When this happens, there is a fail-safe mechanism attached to the reactor that runs on steam that can still force cooling water across the core and continue the cooling process . . . for a while. This system is controlled by batteries with a limited life. The UCS think this is about 8 hours. That time has probably lapsed.
6. The Japanese operators are trying to bring in replacement batteries to keep the emergency fail-safe cooling system functioning. We don’t know the status of that effort at this time.
Bottom line: There may be not one but two units at risk. They’re both on last-ditch, fail-safe systems that rely on limited-life batteries to keep cooling water flowing and covering the core. The operators are in a race against time to replace them or to get electric power either from repaired or replaced back-up generators or restored access to the grid. We don’t know the status of any of these efforts.
Without continuously circulating cooling water, the still very hot reactor core will slowly (over hours) boil away the remaining cooling water, and that could eventually leave the reactor core and its radioactive fuel rods uncovered. We don’t know how far along we are in that sequence. What happens after that can lead to an uncontrolled meltdown and releases of radiation.
“Controlled” radiation releases, through filters (we don’t know their effectiveness), have already been used to relieve pressure inside the reactor. [There's a report they've lost any other ability to control pressure.] suspect most has been contained inside a massive containment structure, which is designed to withstand everything except the things they didn’t plan for, like the loss of everything. We’re there.
There have already been pressure buildups inside the reactor (or containment?) that exceed its design capacity. We don’t know what it’s real limits are, and we don’t know what damage the earthquake caused to its integrity.
Evacuations are underway, in increasingly larger areas. Stay tuned.
Related articles:
UCS: Nuclear crisis at Fukushima
NYT: Japan expands evacuation around nuclear plant
Nuclear plant under state of emergency
Design features of a boiling water reactor
Risks of nuclear catastrophe escalates . . .
Radiation 1000 times higher than normal
Update: keep in mind there are two multi-unit nuclear power stations in play. In all, five units are at risk at these two stations.
Fukushima I (Daiichi) Nuclear Power Station = six units built in the 1970s
Fukushima II (Daini) Nuclear Power Station = four units built in the 1980s
At Daiichi, Unit 1 had the explosion on Saturday; Unit 2 is also at risk.
At Daini, Units 1, 2, and 3 are also at risk.
Disclosure. I once consulted for Tokyo Electric Power Company, the plant owners, on an unrelated matter, explaining US grid coordination. I’m not a nuclear expert.




155 Comments

tweet this:
RT At least 2 Japanese Nuclear Units Still at Serious Risk http://bit.ly/g3jY6w #FDL #japan #tsunami #prayforjapan #fukushima
[edit]
Are we about to witness “The China Syndrome” in reverse?
John,
It’s now 5 reactors at 2 sites. They’ve lost control and have no way to cool them down. Radioactivity inside one of the reactors is 1000 times higher than normal. 8X higher than normal outside. Everyone w/in 10 Km of the site has been ordered to evacuate.
The pumps that normally pump water to cool down the reactor cores are inoperable, damaged by the quake. Temp of the coolant has risen from 30 degrees to 100 degrees and is starting to boil off.
Turning off the reactors won’t work because it takes 24 to 48 hours for them to cool down and that will be too late.
Follow the action on twitter at #Fukushima
BTW, that’s 100 degrees Centigrade, not Fahrenheit.
“This system is controlled by batteries with a limited life.”
WTF kindof failsafe is this? They don’t have generators and 10 years of fuel (or whatever) stored on site? Sounds almost as incompetent as the USG.
Why don’t they get the US military to fly in generators via helicopters?
I’ve seen that story and I don’t agree there are five reactors “at risk.” There are two at the site above where there are serious problems controlling the cooling systems in the reactors. A third site had a fire in the turbine building, which is connected to but not in the reactor containment building; there’s damage to be sure, but that plant is not at risk of a meltdown as far as we know. A fourth site has reported “a leak.” We don’t know the extent of that, but doesn’t sound serious yet. The fifth reactor mentioned at the bottom of that story is at Diablo Canyon in the US, which had a shutdown for other reasons. No evidence it is “at risk.”
The overwhelming scale of disaster after disaster on the planet is further complicated by these additionally disastrous events that simply up the ante.
The earth is sending messages, louder and louder.
And we have Obama. Ain’t life grand???
If the Japanese face another radiation disaster, there will be hell to pay for it’s political establishment.
Those thinking about long-term recovery, know the environment will be a big winner in the conversion to biofuels & biopower.
– Balkingpoints / www
Follow my heart attack at #holyfuckingshit
This is bad, bad news. I hope like hell that the world is ready to mobilize and help contain the fallout.
With pressure building in containment buildings once the reactor containment chambers are breached, won’t this result in explosive release?
One story I’ve seen suggests the Japanese are trying to bring in replacement generators. Haven’t seen anything else.
But you raise a good point: advance countries must surely have mobile backup generators available for emergencies of all kinds. Since the US has offered all assistance, I assume the Japanese can do this themselves, but that’s a guess.
Knowing tsunami as they do, (Hell they made the word), that could have been planned better. Like installing the back up generators on two or three story concrete pads rather than on ground level.
I absolutely agree. The messages/signs are everywhere, but we’re focused on defunding research, regulation, compliance, women, children, education, etc. It’s really appalling.
The generators were damaged but I agree they planned badly by putting them at ground level.
That’s probably oversimplified. I just read an interview at Scientific American or somewhere that says the battery system is to sustain the electronic controls for this fail-safe cooling system, but the expert claimed it can also be operated “manually.” dunno what that means.
Great (if scary) reporting, Scarecrow. This event is taking place in the context of pretty substantial aftershocks, which presumably complicate existing issues to some degree.
http://www.livescience.com/13190-japan-earthquake-large-aftershocks.html
Don’t panic! The next step is to bring in portable pumps. There are four inch gasoline or diesel driven pumps that can handle the job very well and there is plenty of water nearby.
“Like installing the back up generators on two or three story concrete pads rather than on ground level.”
In retrospect, cheap at many times the price.
Then again, hindsight is no better than being blind…
Yes. they obviously have to worry about the integrity of the containment structure and the condition of the cooling system inside. And they keep having these fairly large aftershocks, which could be undermining whatever structural integrity is left. It sounds very dangerous.
Maybe this dude can save the day…
http://www.chaobell.net/newgallery/d/1842-1/JesusRidingDinosaur.jpg
Um…maybe not.
Japanese are radiation magnets?
Very true, this is all hindsight. Still, the Nihonjin KNOW tsunami and some of them must have noticed how close to the coast they are.
Whatever the more complicated story might be, the fact that it appears not to be working is evidence of gross incompetence.
I worked in power production (including nuclear, but that was a long time ago) and I think your analysis is pretty good, considering the dearth of information out so far. I’m led to believe from the little information available that the plant actually has two separate problems:
1. the pumps/piping on one of the reactors has significant damage
2. the back-up generators were flooded and so there is no “station service” power (other than the battery banks, the DC voltage of which is used to power essential equipment until normal power can be restored)
My experience with station batteries is that they will last, if minimum drawdown is initiated, from 8 to 16 hours, depending on the condition of the batteries at the onset of the outage.
Add to all that, even if new generators arrive onsite in a timely manner, or new, already charged batteries (very unlikely), it is going to take time to get everything hooked up. I’m betting these things can’t be just plugged in. Plus, there may be (probably is) damage to the infrastructure that connects the generators to the plant, since they were probably running when the tsunami hit.
To forestall – No Godzilla/Mothra jokes please – or I will get really, really mad.
Seems like the simplified version is that the nukes were not built for the big one.
How unsurprising it that.
“It sounds very dangerous.”
The structure just keeps getting rattled. I know nothing about this sort of engineering, but I would still posit that the continued shaking just has to be having some kind of deleterious effect on all manner of variables at work here – including the personnel.
Okie Dokie.
I’ve got a drawerful of AAs I’d be willing to donate. Unscrew the top and drop them in. Ma ke sure you’ve got the +s and -s lined up properly.
Geez, how FUBAR can you get.
Using the beta capsule, Hyata turns into Ultraman!
Hey, no Gojira, no Mothra….
*sternlook*
Just saw an updated story quoting the utility that there are now three units in cooling water trouble at [another] facility nearby. So you were right. We may now have five units in serious trouble.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7468710.html
placement generators are heavy – very heavy – few helicopters can left one.
Batteries appear on their way
but the solution is getting the grid back up
A report – no doubt exaggerated – say 14 reactors have some sort of damage – these are 1950′s/1960′s tech – it came online in 71
All the failsafe designs seem to be in France and built in the last 20 years. These old reactors need to be replaced – but the capital investment is just too large.
This could end with no melt down given the time they have to do the fix – but it is going to hurt the building of new, albeit safer, nukes, despite our need for new nukes in lieu of new coal power plants.
The first historic preservation conference I went to had a breakout session titled: Water is THE Problem.
Yeppers, youda thunk that someone woulda noticed that nuke plants need to be near water & water is THE problem, esp in an earthquake region with tsunamis.
But the LDP Jap monopoly govt prolly tortured then disappeared the whistleblower who wanted them to spend an extra 129 yen (or whatever) on safety.
XD
Batteries can run control but the pump motors are the problem. A reactor requires pumps of a sufficient size to circulate the reactor water through the heat exchangers. That water is a “closed system” with contaminated water so just any portable pump won’t do. The best solution is to get the main pumps connected to a portable power source and get them running.
I’m really glad I’m not on the engineering crew in that plant right now because you can imagine the stress.
If there’s any upside to this story at all, it would have to be that the MOTU on this side of the Pacific are going to be hard-pressed to make their idiot case for “safe nuclear power” after this event….at least for the time being.
History shows again and again how nature points up the folly of man
They are on railroad cars the way I understand it. The problem is that rails are washed out or blocked.
“but it is going to hurt the building of new, albeit safer, nukes, despite our need for new nukes in lieu of new coal power plants.”
Not in the U.S. Excelon is one of O’s biggest campaign contributors & has already robbed U.S. of $9 billion. I saw a promise of more.
BTW, your contention of ‘safer’ nukes would require quite a bit of defense in light of the fact that no one is gonna make them install anything safe anymore.
I expect them to argue that these are 40 year old plants in highly vulnerable, seismically active areas. We have totally new, safe designs, they’ll say, and we’re so much smarter!
“This could end with no melt down given the time they have to do the fix – but it is going to hurt the building of new, albeit safer, nukes, despite our need for new nukes in lieu of new coal power plants.”
How safe is state-of-the-art, spare-no-expense technology these days? I really have no idea at all. What I am pretty certain of, however, is that there’s no reliable way to get rid of the spent fuel at this time. Or maybe we could fill up a bunch of train cars, haul the whole mess over to Lloyd Blankfein’s house and dump it in his back yard?
Sorry, I just watched “Inside Job” and I’ve got high-finance gangsters on the brain…
Thanks Buck.
I thought economists just assume a generator?
What world are you living in? New nukes will be built in the U.S. regardless of any disaster in Japan (Japan will just be scapegoated if there’s any coverage on U.S. corp media at all), and the new U.S. nukes will have no safeguards.
That’s likely to be their position, alright. It’s just a question of how long of a waiting period before the subject is reintroduced into quasi-public discourse.
God knows, what Barry will learn from this “teachable moment.”
eCAHN?
Disagree. Have multiple sources. Will provide.
“History teaches us that History is no teacher.”
More tax cuts for John Boehner and his crew, maybe?
Nothing, of course. Thanks for the rhetorical Q layup.
Too bad we were not much smarter Then. We are still just as stoopit. But, hey, let’s build new nukes. What’s to worry?
Because we got Obama. So we got hope? Nope, dope.
“and the new U.S. nukes will have no safeguards.”
So will there be a tax credit on the purchase of radiation suits for personal use, then? /s
Pfft! I’m not convinced this event will get Republicans to re-instate NOAA funding.
That’s a joke, right?
And a can opener to get the gas tank open to add the fuel. *g*
Sold by one company with a monopoly….
He’ll definitely see $$$ signs.
Yes, a sick one. Sorry.
Latest I saw on that, USG research sez that if you just stay indoors, you can survive a nuclear bomb radiation aftermath. So NO need for radiation suits.
Besides its the YOYO economy, so if you want one, You’re On Your Own.
I saw that our President said, “We will stand with you.” Bless their hearts, they can still hope??
Duct tape and plastic sheeting? But the tape will cause seven million dollars worth of damage to my home….
Besides, this whole thread is just another example of how much lefties hate the U.S.
Breaking news: Republicans say the main problem is Japan’s nuclear industry labor unions.
Ding ding ding. We have a winnah!
Define ‘US.’ King Koch and the Coconuts running the show? That ain’t the US, and absolutely deserves hatred
It would seem that we should have access to that kind of equipment at the US base in Okinawa. At least logic would point to that.
Let’s hope that this can be prevented from going runaway… the outcome would be almost unthinkable for the people in the region… on top of the devastation from the quake and the tsunami
Nuke Power, clean, safe and too cheap to meter.
If the early reports are correct at least one of the reactors has suffered a partial meltdown. The high radiation and pressure levels mean that some of the internal shielding is already damaged.
I hope this ends well but it doesn’t appear to be heading in that direction.
I haven’t seen anything suggesting any of the reactors have suffered a meltdown, partial or otherwise. Got a link?
Radiation is certainly coming from somewhere, so damage yes. Heat and/or pressure damage. Meltdown, I think they would know.
Rachel is covering this right now.
Ruh-ro, Astro.
Rachel just said that mobile power units have arrived at the plant. No word on how long it takes to hook them up.
Ed Lyman from the UCS is getting more worried at every update he says on TRMS
I should have said, may have, insted of, has melted. We will know soon enough even though the Japanese officials are downplaying the dangers.
That’s still just unsupported speculation. A reactor doesn’t have to “melt down” partially or totally to release radioactive steam.
AJE reports:
8:59am
With a state of emergency declared at another nuclear reactor, there are now five reactors under a state of emergency – two at Fukushima No.1 plant, and three at the nearby Fukushima No.2 plant.
8:17am
A total of 45,000 people living within a 10km radius of the Fukushima nuclear power plant have now been told to evacuate their homes – a steep rise on the 3,000 who were told to leave yesterday evening.
8:12am
Dozens of troops trained for chemical disasters have been sent to the Fukushima nuclear plant in case of a radiation leak, along with four vehicles designed for use in atomic, biological and chemical warfare, says defence ministry official Ippo Maeyama.
8:08am
Tokyo Electric Power has lost its ability to control pressure in some of the reactors of a second nuclear power plant at its quake-hit Fukushima facility in northeastern Japan, the company has said.
Pressure is stable inside the reactors but rising in the containment vessels, a spokesman said – although he did not know if there would be a need to release pressure at the plant, which would involve a release of radiation.
7:54am
The Fukushima nuclear plant is 40 years old – but officials have confirmed that the emergency cooling system, the last-ditch measure to prevent the reactor going into meltdown, is still intact and could kick in if needed.
(An encouraging sign)
7:51am
Banri Kaieda, Japanese industry minister, says:
Due to the air release procedure, there’s a possibility that radioactive materials may be released into the air. But the amount is minimal.
7:30am
Japan’s nuclear safety agency says some radiation has now seeped outside the plant, prompting calls for further evacuation of the area, says the Associated Press news agency.
7:15am
More reports from the Fukushima nuclear plant – radiation levels at a central control unit in the “No.1 reactor” have reached 1,000 times normal, a trade ministry official told Reuters. But that’s not a level that would require workers to evacuate the plant, the official said.
(Uhm, rather dubious claim seems to me)
Meanwhile, nuclear watcdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency, has said that cooling systems at the “No.2 reactor” have also been damaged, and that work is underway to repair them.
The 3km evacuation zone has been expanded to 10km, said prime minister Naoto Kan, before embarking on a tour of the earthquake-hit area.
The IAEA has released a statement, saying:
Three reactors at the plant were operating at the time of the earthquake, and the water level in each of the reactor vessels remains above the fuel elements, according to Japanese authorities.
(Good sign)
The IAEA’s Incident and Emergency Centre continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities, and is in full response mode to monitor the situation closely round the clock.
6:56am
There may be some accuracy to these reports of increased danger at Fukushima nuclear power plant. AP is now reporting radiation levels have surged outside the facility, and Japanese officials have expanded the area subject to evacuation.
6:46am
AFP is quoting the Kyodo News Agency as reporting the Japan safety panel saying radiation at the Fukushima nuclear power plant has reached levels 1,000 times of normal levels.
You can be sure we’ll bring you more on those reports.
Pressure has been building at the nuclear plant after a reactor’s cooling system was damaged in the earthquake.
Meanwhile, contrary to earlier reports, officials say that the US did not deliver nuclear coolant material, and that Japanese authorities handled the situation themselves.
6:10am
John Large, independent nuclear safety analyst, tells Al Jazeera that Japanese officials will have to manage a balancing act at the Fukushima nuclear power plant.
He says there is a risk of exposing the public if they try to contain radioactive steam, once vented from the reactor, in the secondary dome – as it may also have been damaged during the earthquake. This means there may be a leak.
However, not venting the steam – as the pressure in the reactor builds – may lead to a much worse danger being posed.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/live-blog-japan-earthquake#update-10451
From Haaretz:
After the quake triggered a power outage, a backup generator also failed and the cooling system was unable to supply water to cool the 460-megawatt No. 1 reactor, though at least one backup cooling system is being used. The reactor core remains hot even after a shutdown.
The agency said plant workers are scrambling to restore cooling water supply at the plant but there is no prospect for immediate success.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/japan-evacuates-3-000-over-fears-for-nuclear-plant-1.348635?utm_medium=twitter&localLinksEnabled=false&utm_source=twitterfeed
From Asia & Pacific:
Operators at the Fukushima Daiichi plant’s Unit 1 scrambled ferociously to tamp down heat and pressure inside the reactor after the 8.9 magnitude quake and the tsunami that followed cut off electricity to the site and disabled emergency generators, knocking out the main cooling system.
Some 3,000 people within two miles of the plant were urged to leave their homes, but the evacuation zone was more than tripled to 6.2 miles after authorities detected eight times the normal radiation levels outside the facility and 1,000 times normal inside Unit 1′s control room.
The government declared a state of emergency at the Daiichi unit — the first at a nuclear plant in Japan’s history. But hours later, the Tokyo Electric Power Co., which operates the six-reactor Daiichi site, announced that it had lost cooling ability at a second reactor there and three units at its nearby Fukushima Daini site.
The government quickly declared states of emergency for those units, too, and thousands of residents near Fukushima Daini also were told to leave.
Japan’s nuclear safety agency said the situation was most dire at Fukushima Daiichi’s Unit 1, where pressure had risen to twice what is consider the normal level. The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement that diesel generators that normally would have kept cooling systems running at Fukushima Daiichi had been disabled by tsunami flooding.
Officials at the Daiichi facility began venting radioactive vapors from the unit to relieve pressure inside the reactor case. The loss of electricity had delayed that effort for several hours.
Plant workers there labored to cool down the reactor core, but there was no prospect for immediate success. They were temporarily cooling the reactor with a secondary system, but it wasn’t working as well as the primary one, according to Yuji Kakizaki, an official at the Japanese nuclear safety agency.
Even once a reactor is shut down, radioactive byproducts give off heat that can ultimately produce volatile hydrogen gas, melt radioactive fuel, or even breach the containment building in a full meltdown belching radioactivity into the surroundings, according to technical and government authorities.
Despite plans for the intentional release of radioactivity, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the 40-year-old plant was not leaking radiation.
“With evacuation in place and the ocean-bound wind, we can ensure the safety,” Edano said at a televised news conference early Saturday.
It was unclear if the elevation of radioactivity around the reactor was known at the time he spoke.
The outside measurement of radiation at Daiichi was far below the allowed limit for a year, other officials said, reporting that it would take 70 days standing at the gate to reach the yearly limit.
Dr. Irwin Redlener, a pediatrician who runs a disaster preparedness institute at Columbia University, said the reported level of radiation outside the plant would not pose an immediate danger, though it could lift the rate of thyroid cancer in a population over time.
However, he called the reported level inside the plant extraordinarily high, raising a concern about acute health effects. “I would personally absolutely not want to be inside,” he said.
While the condition of the reactor cores was of utmost concern, Tokyo Electric Power Co. also warned of power shortages and an “extremely challenging situation in power supply for a while.”
The Daiichi site is located in Onahama city, about 170 miles northeast of Tokyo. The 460-megawatt Unit 1 began operating in 1971 and is the oldest at the site. It is a boiling water reactor that drives the turbine with radioactive water, unlike pressurized water reactors usually found in the United States. Japanese regulators decided in February to allow it to run another 10 years.
The temperature inside the reactor wasn’t reported, but Japanese regulators said it wasn’t dropping as quickly as they wanted.
Kakizaki, the safety agency official, said the emergency cooling system is intact and could kick in as a last line of defense. “That’s as a last resort, and we have not reached that stage yet,” he added.
Defense Ministry official Ippo Maeyama said dozens of troops trained for chemical disasters had been dispatched to the plant in case of a radiation leak, along with four vehicles designed for use in atomic, biological and chemical warfare.
Technical experts said the plant would presumably have hours, but probably not days, to try to stabilize things.
Leonard S. Spector, director of the Washington office of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, said loss of coolant is the most serious type of accident at a nuclear power plant.
“They are busy trying to get coolant to the core area,” said Neil Sheehan, a spokesman for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. “The big thing is trying to get power to the cooling systems.”
High-pressure pumps can temporarily cool a reactor in this state with battery power, even when electricity is down, according to Arnold Gundersen, a nuclear engineer who used to work in the U.S. nuclear industry. They can open and close relief valves needed to control pressure. Batteries would go dead within hours but could be replaced.
The IAEA said “mobile electricity supplies” had arrived at the Daiichi plant. It wasn’t clear if they were generators or batteries.
It also was not immediately clear how closely the reactor had moved toward dangerous pressure or temperature levels. If temperatures were to keep rising to more than 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit, it could set off a chemical reaction that begins to embrittle the metallic zirconium that sheathes the radioactive uranium fuel.
That reaction releases hydrogen, which can explode when cooling water finally floods back into the reactor. That was also concern for a time during the 1979 Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania.
If the reactor temperature keeps reaches around 4,000 degrees, the fuel could melt outright, and the reactor could slump right into the bottom of the containment building in a partial meltdown. Then the crucial question would be whether the building would stay intact.
“The last line of defense is that containment — and that’s got to hold,” Gundersen said. If it doesn’t, the radioactive load inside the reactor can pour out into the surroundings.
The plant is just south of the Miyagi prefecture, which was the region hardest hit by the quake. A fire broke out at another nuclear plant in that area in a turbine building at one of the Onagawa power reactors. Smoke poured from the building, but the fire was put out. Turbine buildings of such boiling water reactors, though separate from the reactor, do contain radioactive water, but at much lower levels than inside the reactor. A water leak was reported in another Onagawa reactor.
http://ht.ly/4cTOs
(Apparently, A&P is Fox source, so there’s that to consider)
Live feed regarding the disaster: http://wwitv.com/tv_streams/6810.asx
1 Hour ago:
thinkingmediatv thinkingmedia
@
@nuclear_britain Kyodo says Japanese nuclear agency informs the govt that the “failsafe” cooling system at #Fukushima 2 has failed.
That’s all I can find right now, John.
Thanks.
Where’s Tony Hayward when you need him?
Hai, whistle-blower-san, we have reviewed you honorable questions about single points of failure in our nuclear plant design, and vulnerability to earthquakes followed by tsunamis, and have concluded you are technically correct.
The questions you raise have cause much embarrassment in the upper management of our company, and they have lost face.
We cannot let out management loose face by making this accurate analysis, would you not agree?
The honorable task for you now is to go on our whaling ship and count the pimples on the whales caught.
Unless of course, you revise you analysis, thus:
……
News: they’re venting radioactive steam from two reactors to control temperature. Still not a meltdown, but getting closer…
I added a very long update message upthread @6:37 pm from multiple sources. Don’t know if it adds much to the discussion, but it’s there if anyone wants to review it.
Ijust found this article at Scientific American entitled, How to Cool a Nuclear Reactor, which specifically addresses the situation at Fukushima.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-cool-a-nuclear-reactor
Basically, they have up to approximately 24 hours max to get the cooling systems up and running or they’re in deep deep shit.
It’s a proverbial race against time.
This is the website for the Tokyo Power Company that has updates in English.
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html
Twitter @arclight for more information. He or she is a nuclear engineer who has been fielding many questions about this situation and seems to know the subject matter. Sign on to twitter and click on @arclight and then ask away, or just read along.
Agreed, humans for grossly incompetent. Only reactors that shutdown immediately, safely on loss of power or controls should be used. I’m sure that’s what we use in the US.
Bradblog has a long piece about the potential meltdown, including reference to what the two experts on Rachel Maddow’s show had to say.
Brad doubts that the unvarnished truth is being presented to the public, and the longer this goes on without an announcement that the situation is under control and the emergency is over, the more likely he’s right. I feel exactly the same way.
We’re down to a matter of hours before they run out of time and meltdown starts.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8390
Nuclear safety expert. Not sure if arclight is a nuclear engineer.
Latest from Bradblog:
“And on Rachel Maddow just now, an expert concurred that he is feeling less good about the situation, the more that he is hearing about it…
UPDATE 6:42pm PT: Another expert on Maddow, Joe Cirincione of Ploughshares Fund, says: “We have never seen something like this. We have never seen multiple reactors at risk. … This could be a technological catastrophe.”
…DEVELOPING…”
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8390
the second expert on Rachel’s show pointed out that should the worst case scenario play out, the bulk of the radiation – due to prevailing winds – would be carried to the West Coast of the U.S.
yeah, I’ll be sleeping well tonight in L.A…
I looked at the timeline for the TMI meltdown, the core was partially exposed fot only 2.5hrs and the core melted. All anyone can do is speculate at this point about how much damage has been done.
All of our reactors are light water reactors and all will melt down if they lose cooling water.
My brother worked on the design of gas cooled reactors at General Atomic in the early ’60s, this design can’t melt down because air can be used in an emergency.
Here’s another disquieting thought.
If you have trouble sleeping, don’t go for a walk on a beach. There could be more tsunamis . . . and bigger ones too.
Are we in trouble or what? Fuck me with an axe.
General Atomic.
Now that’s a name for the ages.
Maybe he can replace General Petraeus in Afghanistan./s
GA was a subsidiary of General Dynamics, think big. I think one of the Big Oils owns them now.
On one visit to GA i got to look into a research reactor and observe a Cherenkov radiation burst, weird and frightening experience.
It’s time to stock up with thyroid pills and lead underware.
How would this worst-case scenario compare to the (DU) depleted uranium that has been “released” since it’s escalated (and continued) use in munitions in the first Persian Gulf war circa 1991? Just wondering out here on the left coast? “Gulf War Syndrome” anyone?
CNN has reported within the past 30 minutes:
Tokyo (CNN) — Reactors at two Japanese power plants can no longer cool radioactive substances, a government official said Saturday, adding that a small leak had been detected at one of the facilities.
Atomic material has seeped out of one of the Fukushima Daiichi plant’s five nuclear reactors, about 160 miles (260 kilometers) north of Tokyo, said Kazuo Kodama, a spokesman for Japan’s nuclear regulatory agency.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/
With all due respect to all the commentators, an event like this does not merit any mirth or humor. People are already injured and dead from the tsunami and the reactor scenario is sure to usher in additional sickness and horrible death to many.
In our time, we are experiencing disaster after disaster of epic proportions, and the assholes in DC and elsewhere play their fiddles. Mama Earth is reflecting how tragedies that are either human species manifest or the planet flexing it’s shell to shake off a parasite, are going to increase and become more devastating…
and yet we do not pay respect or acknowledgment to ‘how fragile we are’ and how intertwined we are with the web of all life on the planet…
the American Indians warned us…but we are some stubborn dimbulbs….
My heart goes out to all those hurt and injured in Japan.
This easily could have happened here…I worry and get scared for my 3 grandchildren and my great granddaughter who was just born 4 days ago…what a world they will inherit!
Dayum.
Thanks for keeping us informed, Masoninblue.
Bear in mind that the Pacific is really big, and Japan is a long way from the US. There is a lot of dilution to be expected.
One totally irrelevant factoid, the most expensive fire in US Atomic energy history cost the US $999,999,999.00 in inflation adjusted 1999 dollars. A fire started and the sprinklers successfully contained the fire.
Regardless of what finally happens, we are talking about Carl Sagan type numbers for the clean up. (for those to young to remember . . . billions and billions)
Livestream video on the disaster from Japan in English: http://wwitv.com/tv_streams/6810.asx
A report on the livestream link said 90 centimeters of nuclear rods were exposed as water boiled away, but the government is claiming they weren’t damaged.
Apparently, they’ve got some replacement pumps working at one of the reactors.
Some of the nasty fission by products are strontium90, iodine131 and caesium these seem to be the worst but there are many more. All of these may be raining down on the Left Coast if this isn’t contained.
Japan TV is now reporting that the Meteorological Agency is ordering people to evacuate from coastal areas as they are expecting up to 12 foot high tsunamis to hit.
Crap. Was there another earthquake? Is this some sort of reflection from the earlier tsunamis?
They had a 6.8 earthquake off the NW coast of Japan that was along a different fault than the earlier 8.8 quake off the NE coast that caused so much destruction. Plus, they’ve had more than a dozen aftershocks that exceeded 7.0
It’s not unusual to have big aftershocks and many tsunamis for many hours after an initial quake.
651 confirmed dead with 750 missing throughout Japan. They are estimating there will be approximately 1300 dead, which is actually a miracle, given the horrific damage.
The reported high levels of radiation are puzzling. A failure of cooling, on its own, would not cause that if the control rods were working. A leak would, though. (Or a controlled pressure release; but as I understood it, the reports of high radiation came before the controlled releases.)
If we take it as a given that the control rods worked, the problem now is that fission products embedded in the rod are still continuing to undergo radioactive decay–although the power-generating nuclear fission itself has stopped. If you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decay_heat it suggests that this typically goes down by a factor of 100 over the course of a day.
So the origin of the 24 hour rule seems reasonable. Basically, after 24 hours, the decay danger has passed; so that you know at that point whether you’ve had a severe problem, or not. So if officialdom isn’t trumpeting to the world that there wasn’t a severe problem, then you can probably conclude with certainty that there was.
Brad Friedman @ Bradblog is reporting:
Oy. RT @Reuters: FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor – Jiji
Certainly not unexpected, but it’s extremely bad news.
Extremely. Bad.
PRAY FOR JAPAN.
Now we get to see how well the containment vessels (40-years old) weathered the quakes and tsunamis.
Thanks again for keeping us informed, Masoninblue.
Crap. This is getting scary.
Thanks. Wish the news was better.
A quick note on the forces at play. Assuming (a) the control rods worked and (b) the water level inside the reactor is indeed below the top of the rods.
Basically, the “heat source” is not the kind of radioactive fission that normally powers the plant. Instead, the heat source is the decay of byproducts of the earlier fissions from when the plant was operating. These byproducts are embedded in the rods. So basically, there is a heat source inside the rods. This heat source continues raising the temperature of the rods and surrounding water, but the source itself is becoming weaker and weaker over time. After a day or so it is mostly gone, and the rods and water will cool off.
In the meantime, the heating-up-rods are surrounded by a bath of pressurized hot water. They will transfer their heat to that water. Normally coolant pumps circulate that water to cool it. The pumps have failed, so that water is sitting inside the main reactor vessel, absorbing the heat from the rods. This is heating up the water.
There are paths by which the water cools off. Basically, the walls of the reactor vessel will get hotter and hotter, and radiate off heat. Also, though the pumping is off, there will be heat passed out through the pipe path. Of course, due to the normal ways this reactor is designed, these paths are both designed to dissipate as little heat as possible.
Basically, there will be a race, between the dying heat generation of the decay products, and the various heat dissipation paths. The temperature of the water will rise for a while, and then eventually start falling. The question is: how high does it rise?
There are two obvious failure modes: that all the water gets converted to steam, pressurizing the reactor vessel and blowing it apart; or that the rods get hot enough that they locally cause irreversible film-vaporisation, at which point the rod temperature runs away until the fuel rods melt. It’s not obvious to me that meltdown is actually the worse failure.
(Question if anyone out there has any idea: is there any chance that fission could re-start after a meltdown? After all, it seems the fuel may become separated from the control rods, but still be embedded in the moderator that leaks out with it. Of course the fuel might not melt into a critical shape. Anyone know?)
FWIW scaling from some numbers I could find, it seems likely that the water temperature rise, at least at first, is in the neighborhood of 1 degree C per minute. That seems awfully quick to me.
Tweets from most recent at top to older ones chronologically — all within the past 10 minutes.
Eugene_Robinson Eugene Robinson
by TurtleWoman777
Very scary flash report of possible meltdown at #Fukushima plant following #Japan quake: http://bit.ly/fmw64M
Canada_Arch The Architect
by TurtleWoman777
Fresh tremors jolt Tokyo : http://ndtv.in/hnFzWS
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
RT @martyn_williams: RT @dicklp: Nuclear expert tells The Times: meltdown has technically begun at Fukushima. #JPQuake
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
by TheBradBlog
Reports coming in: cesium detected around the nuclear reactor 1 (Fukushima), which is one of the elements that gets released in a meltdown
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
RT @cbn2: Japan’s Kyodo News Service: BREAKING NEWS: Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown http://bit.ly/hOeD6x
Small world. My father-in-law worked for GA on the same reactor design in the 70′s.
I meant to write that the assumption is that the level is NOT below the level of the rods. If it is indeed below, then there’s a second-level race, between the rate at which the rod itself conducts heat from its upper, uncovered part to its lower, immersed portion, and the rate at which the upper part heats up. If this race goes badly that’s another failure mode by which the fuel can overheat and go molten.
More tweets in same chronological order. Most recent first.
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
RT @maddow: NHK reporting venting is suspended due to high radiation levels – concern over pressure & possible damage to containment vessel.
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
Bad to worse now… RT @maddow: link to very bad news NHK meltdown report: http://bit.ly/dGav8u
b0yle Alan Boyle
RT @maddow: link to very bad news NHK meltdown report: http://bit.ly/dGav8u
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
RT @W7VOA: AP quotes experts saying if nuke meltdown, risk zone is 6km radius. #Fukushima #Japan
dicklp Richard Lloyd Parry
by TheBradBlog
Japan faces serious chance of nuclear disaster to rival Three Mile Island. At least, J nuke program is set back years, possibly scuttled.
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
RT @dicklp: If there is full scale Fukushima meltdown current evac zone 10km is inadequate. 30km at least needed.
90 centimeters were exposed, according to Japanese officials. I don’t know how long.
FYI: Alan Boyle is the MSNBC science reporter.
Geek culture blog BoingBoing.com often at times like this has some regular reader stick their heads up with some background/scientific expertise in whatever mess we happen to be in that day. This time someone with some nuke reactor background is answering some questions on twitter.
http://twitter.com/#!/arclight
They found this Tokyo Electric Power English language site that’s posting hourly updates, too…
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html
Brad reports:
TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
Okay… RT @dicklp: Another expert on NHK counsels caution, partial nuke meltdown controllable, current evacuation zone is adequate.
Translation: Brad is retweeting a tweet by dicklp who said. “Another expert on NHK counsels caution, partial nuke meltdown controllable, current evacuation zone is adequate.”
I lack sufficient knowledge to evaluate and comment on the accuracy of the contents of that quote.
I believe the materials of the rods are chosen to dilute the fissionables in the event of a meltdown, so as to prevent fission restarting. Still…these events are rare and there is little experience, so I suppose we cannot rule it out, even though we currently do not believe it will occur.
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
RT by TheBradBlog
Government announces that the evacuation (10 km radius) needn’t be expanded, such is the level of control they have over the situation.
Thanks. Yes, I’ve been off and on following both throughout the night and posted links to them somewhere up thread. Good sources, but I’m still somewhat skeptical of the power company’s updates.
Of course the area to be evacuated goes up with the square of the radius, and the entire coast has been pounded, roads are marginal. If I were the suspicious type, I might speculate that they are simply giving up on getting any more people out and hoping for the best.
Click on the link below for a timely update provided by Al Jazeera English:
@AJEnglish
Al Jazeera English
Japan fears nuclear plant meltdown: Nuclear safety panel says meltdown possible at an atomic plant as death toll… http://aje.me/fEtxVf
Sorry. Missed it.
Andy Carvin, the gent who’s been so good in the last month finding good sources for info out of the Middle East, just started forwarding tweets from this guy…
http://twitter.com/#!/Joi
Russia Today is reporting (tweeting), “Japan does not rule out possible radiation leak from Fukushima No 2″
That’s a different reactor. Fukushima 1 is the one that appears to be undergoing a meltdown.
A live conference is in progress regarding the crippled reactors at the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, but it’s in Japanese.
http://bit.ly/g6EFst
Welcome back, Prof. Nice to have nuclear physicist. Hope you’ll keep commenting on the releases.
Seeing too many reports about possible meltdown already underway.
Here’s a link to the official report (which doesn’t add anything new) that was announced.
http://www.iaea.org/press/?p=1138
Well, I’m physically and emotionally exhausted from following the events in Wisconsin and now the horrific events in Japan for the past 20 some hours, plus I feel like I’m having a depressing conversation with myself, so I’m going to get some sleep.
If anyone is still following this thread, please go to AJE, which is live blogging this story at http://aje.me/gkeOYd
My apologies, John. I didn’t intend to hijack your thread. You set it up great and I came along with a little update that had just happened and got into it, and next thing I knew you weren’t there, so I just kept it going. Please forgive me, if you were offended.
Thanks for staying with this. Be sure to read Prof Foland comments above. That background will become relevant later if there are confirmed reports of leaks. We will want to watch for signs of the nature and cause of any release event, especially if it involves an uncontrolled containment breach . . . What happened? And what was emitted? The physicists and engineers can then help translate what that means.
I’ll put up a new post in the a.m. If someone hasn’t already. Thanks again.
Y’all can log on to twitter and enter this hashtag to follow the tweets: #Fukushima
Not a problem. You did a great job. That’s what we hope our community does. Thanks.
Btw, which zone you in? Time?
Should be an English translation via CNN.
Union of Concerned Scientists is a superb source. Another good source is NIRS.org, which I believe is Nuclear Information Research Service. A few great experts who are likely on top of this include Michael Mariotte, Dave Lochbaum, Bob Alvarez, Mary Olsen.
Also Paul Gunther, Tom Clements. Best of luck to those hurrying to get batteries there and sufficient water for the reactor cores.
You can also take stock in Ed Lyman, a watchdog and an expert. Here is a comment from MSNBC’s most recent story on the explosion.
Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists, which opposes nuclear energy, told msnbc.com that TEPCO was facing a potential catastrophe.
“It’s just as bad as it sounds,” he said. “What they have not been able to do is restore cooling of the radioactive core to prevent overheating and that’s causing a variety of problems, including a rise in temperature and pressure with the containment (buildings).
“What’s critical is, are they able to restore cooling and prevent fuel damage? If the fuel starts to get damaged, eventually it will melt through the reactor vessel and drop to the floor of the containment building,” raising the odds that highly radioactive materials could be released into the environment, he said.
Be careful of any comments from NEI, the Nuclear Energy Institute. They are the pro-nuclear industry lobbying arm here in the U.S.
Trying to track satellite images, can’t seem to find radiation images tho. This is the Japan Meteorological Agency site.
http://www.jma.go.jp/en/amedas/000.html?elementCode=2
There are designs that are literally fail safe – the plant can not melt down. Does not mean a shift in the ground will not release radiation, but we do small releases into the air just about every day in the US – Vermont Yankee comes to mind.
These water cooled designs were a way to keep the build cost down and indeed were pushed through by IKE/Dulles for GE/Westinghouse in the 50′s so they could give those companies welfare checks under the Atoms for Peace program (the same program that the CIA/Dulles used via my former boss, under-sec of Commerce Olmstead, to funnel $20 billion of “atom aid” plus technical knowledge on the atomic bomb to Pakistan so that the US would have a counterweight to what was seen as Russia’s nuke nation in the area – India).
Well – “safe” as in “no core melt down is possible” designs are available and have been available for 20 years
The needed capital investment to replace the old water cooled is massive, and while it is easy to show that they should be replaced by multiple smaller nuke plants each of which is closer to the users of its power, it is also easy to show that getting permits for anything nuclear (repair or replace or rebuild or expand) is near impossible in the US. So they hang on to their current permits and invest nothing in changes.
“Only reactors that shutdown immediately, safely on loss of power or controls should be used.”
There are designs for this – getting them built is tough – getting them built as replacement for current water cooled 50 year old plants is even tougher.
I know someone who was there yesterday. Sent a text to his wife (my friend) saying he was “O.K.”
It reminds me of 9/11, when a now-widow friend of mine had a voice-mail from her husband saying they were still alive after the planes crashed.
I am just praying.
Plants like the heavy water Canadian CANDU can be very safe (fail safe via the physic is asserted) and less expensive to build than most reactors in use today – but they have a byproduct of weapons grade plutonium – but then they can use unenriched uranium.
Likewise we find the Chinese doing the interesting work, with folks at Beijing’s Tsinghua University actually building a new nuclear power facility: a pebble-bed reactor (PBR) – sometimes also known as a Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR) that is small enough to be assembled from mass-produced parts, cheap enough for emerging economies (like the US is becoming), and is safe because of physics, not operator skill or reinforced concrete – meltdown-proof. Here the fuel is not conventional fuel rods made of enriched uranium, but rather pyrolytic graphite coated pebbles with uranium cores that are subject to decreased effectiveness as heat rises (the Doppler Broadening effect). This built-in negative feedback places a temperature limit (with – and without – helium gas for cooling) on the fuel without operator intervention that is less than the melt down temperature of the pebbles’ shell.
Seems an update and replace program for the IKE/Dulles Atoms for peace program/welfare check for GE/Westinghouse power plants of the 60′s and 70′s is needed.
Plants like the heavy water Canadian CANDU can be very safe (fail safe via the physics is asserted) and less expensive to build than most reactors in use today – but they have a byproduct of weapons grade plutonium – but then they can use unenriched uranium.
Likewise we find the Chinese doing the interesting work, with folks at Beijing’s Tsinghua University actually building a new nuclear power facility: a pebble-bed reactor (PBR) – sometimes also known as a Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR) that is small enough to be assembled from mass-produced parts, cheap enough for emerging economies (like the US is becoming), and is safe because of physics, not operator skill or reinforced concrete – meltdown-proof. Here the fuel is not conventional fuel rods made of enriched uranium, but rather pyrolytic graphite coated pebbles with uranium cores that are subject to decreased effectiveness as heat rises (the Doppler Broadening effect). This built-in negative feedback places a temperature limit (with – and without – helium gas for cooling) on the fuel without operator intervention that is less than the melt down temperature of the pebbles’ shell.
And that’s why we must rub their noses in this at every turn. Lord knows the regular media won’t.
Mason, this was great. I’ve been mostly lurking, but your reporting has been invaluable. First place I came this morning for an update.
CST. I live in western KY.
Creatively, they have 3 other units that are supposedly not damaged. If that were true, they could chance starting one up and using its output to cool the dangerous ones. But no one is offering that. Why?