According to the ever thoughtful Joe Lieberman, the US should “put the brakes” on all the new nuclear power plants we’re not building. That’s what he told CBS’s Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation.
“I don’t want to stop the building of nuclear power plants,” independent Senator Joe Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said on the CBS program “Face the Nation.”
“But I think we’ve got to kind of quietly put, quickly put the brakes on until we can absorb what has happened in Japan as a result of the earthquake and the tsunami and then see what more, if anything, we can demand of the new power plants that are coming on line,” Lieberman added.
Lieberman, an influential voice in the U.S. Congress on domestic security matters, described himself as a “big supporter of nuclear power because it’s domestic, it’s ours and it’s clean.” He also touted “a good safety record” with nuclear power plants in the United States.
Now, let’s put aside the question of why anyone in America cares what Joe Lieberman thinks about anything; apparently Bob cares so that’s enough. And it’s only marginally more pointless than having NBC’s clueless host interview Mitch Daniels on the assumption that with nothing particularly interesting or pressing happening in the world, what we all want to know is whether Mitch Daniels is crazy enough to win the Tea-GOP nomination.
There hasn’t been a new nuclear plant built in the United States since the partial meltdown at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania. The plant suffered a partial meltdown which partially fractured the reactor vessel that’s not supposed to fracture and was destroyed, and with it the utilities’ confidence they could manage nuclear’s financial and safety risks.
There’s no legal moratorium in the US, but the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, captured by the industry, has pursued a newer generic design that its proponents claim is better than ever. But until now, no one was willing to put up their own money, or ask regulators to extract it from electricity ratepayers, for a technology that takes a decade to build, creates long-run waste disposal liabilities and could expose you and your company to catastrophic losses. Utilities aren’t that stupid.
It’s been that way for 30 years, but today there a few large utilities, like Southern Company, and several unregulated generation owners, like Exelon, who own and successfully operate collections of existing nukes. They claim that building nukes can be profitable, provided they can get massive federal subsidies, federal loan guarantees, and catastrophic loss liability limits, plus (for regulated utilities) advance rate recovery from compliant public utility commissions and guaranteed markets. In short, they need very sweet deals, access to the public trough, and limits on their liability and exposure if the plant (literally) melts down or blows up.
The point is, there are very good reasons why ain’t nobody building no nukes now, and it’s not likely anyone will be doing so in the near future unless we give them sweetheart deals.
So, yeah, I think they should immediately stop construction on all the plants that are not under construction because none has a permit, no one can afford one, and no one is willing to put up the money unless they get federal subsidies and loan guarantees from the Tea-GOP Congress that tells us we’re broke and we can’t even afford tsunami warning centers, but that doesn’t matter because the poor can’t afford to live on the coast anyway.
But there’s courageous Joe Lieberman, slamming his foot on the brakes of a stalled car that he doesn’t own and can’t afford, doesn’t have a license, with no money for gas, an untested engine, and hasn’t moved in 30 years. It’s enough to give you whiplash.
So, did Bob Schieffer ask him why he’d make such a ridiculous, pandering statement? Will anyone?



54 Comments

Excellent points. And thank you for helping me understand this nuclear power plant stuff.
Nothing like bravely taking a stand on an issue that has not progressed (for good reason) in over 30 years. whadda guy!
Joe was a Schmo
And had to go.
I hate to say it, but I told you so.
To backstab your party is a big no-no,
So Joe the Schmo had to go.
Fuck. I guess I’m in favor of nuclear power now. God damn it. I hate this.
In short, nuclear power can not exist in a free market. But that doesn’t stop free market conservatives from banging their pots and pans about how we need more nuclear power plants.
Nuclear power looks great in theory. No carbon emissions, almost limitless power. But when it goes wrong, it’s literally catastrophic. Millions can die. The risks simply outweigh the benefits. That’s why nuclear power can’t survive in a truly free market. If nuclear power had to get its financing and insurance on the open market, it would be prohibitively expensive.
Dear Scarecrow, you wrote:
I have not had the opportunity to follow up on this, but check out this statement by greenwarrior March 12th, 2011 at 8:35 am:
Oh, don’t let Joe influence you. He’ll come around.
Who’s the applicant there? Utility or independent owner?
So Joe’s wife doesn’t lobby for the Nuclear power industry then?
And thanks for your comments on Bill’s posts and mine. Interesting topic.
Big Nuke wants the loan guarantees, and Joe wants credit from Big Nuke for getting them through Congress. Remember, Joe’s a member of the new “Who Gives a Fuck” Caucus, composed of the dirtbag Senators who really can ignore their constituents as they interview for lobbying positions the last 20 months in office.
You’re siding with Lieberman?! Wow Scarecrow have you lost your mind?
Thanks Scarecrow.
Watching in horror these last few days as the Japanese try desperately to contain meltdowns. The wind blows for free.
May the goddess strike me down!
yes, the wind is free, although the turbines get paid for with other fed subsidies. When those go away, the building historically stops, but it’s true they don’t blow up or change frog genes.
If we could harness the energy of Joe Lieberman’s ego, we could easily supply the southeastern U.S. with power for any forseeable future.
Don’t forget the externalities, like the cost of feeding the ego. If he got depressed, the lights would go out.
I think greenwarrior is talking about STP (see “South Texas Nuclear Generating Station” for the complete disambiguation and other details). Based on greenwarrior’s comment plus the Wiki to refresh my memory of the who, what, when and where, the implication is that KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root) plus Bechtel Corporation are the prime contractors who’d be looking to do this work.
Further, according to this Austin Chronicle article (“Headlines” Fri., April 10, 2009):
Here’s this announcement in “KBR Awarded Job Order Contract by City of Austin, Texas” (Houston, Texas – September 22, 2010):
Looks like KBR is the tip of the spear to get additional and bigger contracts.
Real good machine jobs building that shit though. Just sayin.
Yes, and we could use another zillion of them.
Not only do most utilities want nothing to do with them, most banks don’t either. From http://www.thenation.com/article/what-nuclear-renaissance:
So, did Bob Schieffer ask him why he’d make such a ridiculous, pandering statement? Will anyone?
Uh Teddy’s theory works but why would Joe fight something he wants credit for?
Could Joe be thinking of running again and trying to use this issue to get Lefty Cred?
I am open to other theories.
Bob Scheiffer and John McCain are about the same age and have known each other – and liked each other – for decades. As long as Bob is on the air, Leiberman will have a seat at the table occasionally no matter how little sense he makes. Bob doesn’t want to lose proximity to power and McCain doesn’t want to lose an opportunity to be on the teevee.
Imagine how many wind turbines we could get get for just one nuclear reactor.
Somehow I remember hearing that these jobs were outsourced too.
There is a NRC preferred design?
Interesting – if not melt down fail safe why bother? There are such designs – but I’d bet the NRC is not into them.
Joe LieforThem is just pandering. Money is about to flood in for the campaign season. I know Lindsey doesn’t agree with him. There are 5 new planned stations in his state.
It’s all for show, for the show, and showing on the show.
Without PAAA, there would be no nuke power in the U.S. No one would commercially underwrite the risk. Moreover, the only real net advantage of nuke power is the absence of greenhouse gas emission at the power plant. For that you trade a number of externalities (the destructive ore mining, the waste) — including the requisite Nuclear Security State.
Maybe KBR built it into their LNG Liquefaction process as “LNG Liquefaction Not All Plants Are Created Equal”? Or, is it in LUBEMAX™? I highly recommend see the KBR page containing the white papers by those titles located here here). You’ll really love ROSEMAX™ which is brought to you by KBR and KOCH – GLITSCH, INC. (see “Koch Brothers’ Products — We’re Surrounded.”!).
Why do the networks still put this whiny has-been on their Sunday talk shows week after week after week?
Yeah, but, recall the recent “green” plant failure in CA:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5264946&l=76869fdc3b&id=594204672
Nothing is safe.
/s
Thanks for this news and thanks for your delightful asides in response to the comments.
I can’t imagine anyone still wanting to do nuclear plants. That’s totally ludicrous in my book.
Blessings,
The idea came from industry but had NRC support; it was to standardize a new design, pre-approve the generic design, and thus shorten the licensing time for individual permits. Once the generic design was approved, the design safety features, which used to take a long time to critique and were often delayed through litigation, would all be pre-approved.
As opposed to destructive coal mining and the deaths of coal miners … every year.
Joe is being asked to appear because he’s a Democrat (or wants them to think he is) and it’s all, you know, bipartisany and stuff like that. /s
Not to forget WPPSS, which went bankrupt in the late ’70s early ’80s trying to build 4 nukes at the same time.
Joe is Bob Schieffer’s idea of a Democrat, which is to say much like a Texas Democrat like Bob’s brother, a Bush Ranger/Pioneer and Ambassador:
wiki:
Schieffer is the older brother of Tom Schieffer, a friend and former business partner of President George W. Bush, who was appointed U.S. Ambassador to Australia 2001-2005 by President Bush and also served as U.S. Ambassador to Japan from April 2005 through January 2009. On March 2, 2009 Tom Schieffer announced he was forming an exploratory committee that will allow him to seek the Democratic nomination for Governor of Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Schieffer
I used to be a big fan of wind power, but I have since learned that there are some major drawbacks. The pressure waves created by the spinning blades of wind turbines cause havoc with the inner ear. You can’t live within a few miles of a wind farm without having some serious side effects.
And the tip of a wind turbine blade moves at around 100 mph, even on a light air day. They are taking their toll on bird life.
Still, it’s better than coal or nuclear.
Solar is where I’m putting my chips.
Amazing how brave they all get when they’re about to “retire.”
I am still looking for evidence of permits. In my book that may not mean much. One of the points of Shrubya as the governator of Texas was to complete regulatory capture of the state. Just prior to his insertion into office, the TACB and TWC plus the other smaller environmental regulatory agencies were “re-org’d” into one “EPA of Texas.” There was a real effort to identify all the DFH regulatory types and substitute industry true believers in their place. All sorts of administrative law irregularities, revolving door scandals, doctored data in the permits databases, contractors sleeping with key department heads and transforming immediately into managers with authority to put out RFPs, etc. abounded. Plus the Beltway Bandits/DoD contractors and the bankster handmaidens, Arthur Anderson, got their claws into the new agency pretty darn good via various contracts.
I don’t believe a single word, nor trust a single claim made by any US industry, politician, or talking head. They will say anything to shut us up and screw us over.
A little late, but I just read the post. If it wasn’t so f**king tragic, I’d be having a milk through nose moment.
Not only do the Nukie corporations want the government to underwrite the construction of new plants; they also want caps very LOW caps on any liability they may have for turning parts of amurka into something out of a fucking science fiction wasteland and introducing tens of thousands of people into the joys of leukemia and bone cancer and other forms of cancer.
Given Obama’s compulsive ass-rubs-for-Wall-Street! administration, I’d say that Lieberman is talking irrelevant shit, and he knows it.
Spare me the False Dilemma, OK?
http://bgladd.blogspot.com/2008/04/00143.html
Aren’t Most are built in China? – but transport costs should make it possible to develop a US industry
heya, just wondering, do you have any more specifics about these health effects you’re talking about, and where’d you learn about them from?
I know the following link is from one of those interested parties, and I don’t think wind power alone is the solution to our power problems, but even so my impression tended to be a lot more in line with what’s in the following paper, which is that yes you can hear it, yes it can be annoying, but it’s not proven to be harmful any more so than other noises.
http://www.awea.org/learnabout/publications/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=5728
Good article. Thanks for the link.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35421517/ns/business-oil_and_energy/ Just in case anyone wonders where O is on this
Thanks for the heads up on the pre-approved process
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/new-nuc-plant-des-bg.html
The US firms are not doing Pebble Bed, but a South African firm, Pebble Bed Modular Reactor is trying for approval.
And there are some passive safety designs (The already approved Advanced Passive 600 and the Advanced Passive 1000 is going through the process).
The Canadian approach was no doubt rejected because it produced weapon grade stuff as waste.
With the AP600 approved you would think some were going to be built. But the Pebble Bed that had my interest seems to not have caught the interest of the US companies.
To paraphrase Mr. Nader, it’s one thing to make war for what we need, another to make war for what we want, but who makes war for what we waste?
Scary twitterfeed about explosion at Dakaii #3 and new Tsunami. Can one of you experts update us? Not seeing much in media yet, although Al Jazeera will report soon, it says.
Yeah, keep in mind this is the same guy who supported affordable health care and universal health insurance during his previous election cycle.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/07/AR2006070700029.html
A third reactor is failing. Who was the ahole “expert” that said the secondary radioactive elements have a short half-life?
“short half-life” is a very relative term when talking about radioactive decay. If a primary radioactive element has a half-life of say 27,000 years, and the secondary elements have a half-life of only say 1,500 years, why that’s quite short now isn’t it?
s/
I would assume for purposes of this discussion we are not talking about quantum particles which have half-lives in nano-seconds.