It’s Wednesday evening in Japan, mid-morning in US east coast. [Evening (US) Update below.]
First, many thanks to commenter lobster, for the annotated diagram. In particular note the various levels of containment and the location of the fuel storage ponds on the fourth floor. The orange crane above is used to move fuel assemblies into and out of the reactor building, and to transfer them between the reactor vessel and the fuel storage pond.
— There is a storage pond on the fourth floor of each of the reactors, and all units had an inventory of fuel rods at varying degrees of “spent.” Only a small percentage is actually “spent” in this type of reactor, so there is still substantial energy/heat potential in so-called “spent” fuel rods. In addition to the storage pond in each reactor building, there is also a larger common spent fuel pond in another building that is used by all reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi station.
–The fuel is contained in zircaloy tubes, sometimes called “cladding.” When the reactor is shutdown, as occurred as soon as the plant detected the first earthquake, control rods rise into the core between the fuel rods to stop most of the fission reactions by absording neutrons. That happened at Units 1, 2, and 3; Units 4, 5, and 6 were already shut down for maintenance. As far as we know, control rods were fully inserted into Units 1-3 reactors as soon as the quake occurred. However, as cooling systems failed and melting of fuel occurs inside the reactor, that control protection is becoming less and less important.
– The reactor vessel holds the core — the fuel — and is a critical containment system. If the fuel melts from loss of continuous water cooling, it may eventually damage and melt through the reactor vessel.
– The reactor vessel is surrounded by another steel and concrete containment structure. This is the next line of containment if the reactor vessel is breached.
– At the bottom is a large doughnut-shaped “suppression” pool structure with tons of water to be used for emergency cooling. We’re beyond that stage in some units. But the idea is that if the core is overheating, and there is too much steam pressure building up inside the reactor, emergency valves open to allow steam to escape into the “suppression” pool, as water is reinjected into the vessel The released steam is slightly (relatively) radioactive, and hydrogen gas is created, so maintaining the integrity of the suppression pool and structure is important to avoid possible explosions. Officials believe the suppression pool structure in Unit 2 was damaged in conjunction with the explosion there, but we haven’t yet seen steam coming from here.
– Finally, there is the outer building housing all of the above and more. Units 1, 3, and 4 have already experienced hydrogen explosions that have severely damaged the walls and/or roofs of these reactor buildings. The explosion at Unit 2 has left most of the building intact, but it reportedly damaged the critical suppression pool.
Update as of Wednesday night 11:00 p.m. JST; mid-morning US EDT:
Frantic efforts continue to get cooling water into all six units at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Generation Station. At units 1-3, they are attempting to inject sea water into or around the reactor vessel. Authorities say the core in Units 1 and 2 were [twice] fully uncovered in the last 48 hours and may still be partially uncovered, suggesting that fuel and cladding melting may be continuing.
In the last 24 hours, there has been increasing focus on the fuel ponds at each of the reactors, where years of partially “spent” fuel rods are stored. For a good explanation of how the stored fuel rods, if not continuously cooled, can lead to fuel and cladding melting, hydrogen and fire or explosion, see this from the Union of Concerned Scientists.
Yesterday, the focus was on Unit 4, which had been shutdown for maintenance, so all the rods were in the fourth floor fuel pond. With power out and no backup generation, the pool heated, there was some melting and a fire created in the area, possibly from the cladding itself.
Today, that concern is also focused on Unit 3, where there are reportedly 514 fuel rods in the Unit 3′s storage pond. Early Wednesday (JST) we saw white smoke or steam plumes, some with high radiation levels, rising from Unit 3. This is believed to be associated with a possible fire started by fuel in the storage pond, [but reportedly not breach of the containment structure]. The storage ponds do not have power for cooling, so the fuel rods will continue to heat up, unless somehow cooled with more water, and eventually lead to melting. The zirconium cladding can catch fire. (There may also have been flammable materials, like lubrication, in the fuel storage area which may also have caught fire).
At units 3 and 4, authorities hoped to drop water from helicopters onto the area above the fuel storage ponds. The helicopter drop was called off or delayed because of dangerous levels of radiation.
Indeed last-ditch efforts to inject water into reactors or storage bonds have been hampered by excessive radiation in and around the plants, particularly Unit 3. The next plan is to use high power water hoses (“cannons”) from enclosed fire trucks to spray water into the reactor buildings. This will be extremely dangerous for the fire crews.
Units 5 and 6, which have been shut down for maintenance, also have spent fuel ponds that bear watching. Authorities reports rising temperatures in Unit 5, but it is not regarded as serious yet, relative to Units 3 and 4. Importantly, they still have power to run the pumps for unit 6 and it’s being used to help at Unit 5. No reports so far on the condition of the common fuel pond located in a separate building on the Fukushima site.
For a good unit by unit update as of last night (US) from commenter lobster, see here.
More updates as we get them.
Update, 6:00 p.m. EDT.
Japanese focus continues to be on getting water into the fuel storage pools at Units 3 and 4. Two things worth noting. First, US NRC Chairman Jaczko, testifying in Congress, claimed US officials believe all the water in the fuel storage pond at Unit 4 is gone. Given the number of hours elapsed, that is possible unless the Japanese managed to inject more water. Japanese officials deny Unit 4 water is gone. He also said radiation levels are extreme high and that he would recommend a much larger evacuation radius — out to 50 miles. Jaczko did not address why/how US officials would have more credible measurements or Unit 4 water level information than the Japanese.
Second, Japanese officials are racing to complete a new transmission connection to the grid to restore on-site power to the Fukushima station. That presumes they have an undamaged switch yard to or other point of connection at the site.
This picture at UCS shows some of the damage to the reactor buildings. (h/t SFRob)




263 Comments

It’s just so sad that the diesel backup generators to run the coolant water circulation were at a low level that was swamped by the tsunami, putting them out of commission while the “spent” fuel is suspended so high that getting water up there is the key problem. Shouldn’t those two positions have been reversed?
Any news on the integrity of the pool walls at the reactors? If water can be sprayed somehow, will it land in an intact pool?
There’s an excellent video reenactment right now here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://firedoglake.com/&medium=7497266
From Washington’s Blog.
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/
See also this update from March 16th by the UCS.
http://allthingsnuclear.org/tagged/Japan_nuclear?utm_&utm_medium=head&utm_campaign=sp-nuke-head-3%2F13%2F2011-pm
Thank you, Scarecrow, for your continuing comprehensive coverage.
I’ve been saying this from day one. Somebody somewhere decided that the risk of tsunami was an “acceptable” one, the fact that the Japan Trench where three plates collide is right off the coast notwithstanding. Probably got a huge bonus for saving those bucks too.
You ask a great question, but I can’t help but laugh hystericall at it because it makes me think of this:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/360430/captain-hindsight
Pumps run better by pushing rather than sucking, so having them at low level makes sense. Spent fuel should not have been stored anywhere near the reactors.
Moreover, in several of the units, the outer building structure is no longer intact. They are normally filled with inert nitrogen. A couple of the outside buildings are nearly destroyed. Unit 4 has a 26′ hole in it. That lets radioactive gases out easily. It lets oxygen in, and increases the risk of fire or explosions inside the building (eg, from hydrogen via cooked off water).
NEWS ADVISORY: Water cannon vehicle arrives at Fukushima No. 1 plant to cool No. 4 reactor. – Kyodo News Ticker
I read an article yesterday written by Greg Palast regarding the back-up generators. It is based on his prior investigative work on nuclear plant fraud and racketeering and boy is it blistering.
http://www.gregpalast.com/no-bs-info-on-japan-nuclearobama-invites-tokyo-electric-to-build-us-nukes-with-taxpayer-funds/#more-4497
Reuters: “U.S. forces in Japan not allowed within 50 miles of crippled nuclear reactor without special authorisation – Pentagon”
also
“Some U.S. air crews in Japan given potassium iodide tablets ahead of missions as a precaution against radiation – Pentagon”
and as eCAHN and others predicted – the oligarchs are buggin out
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tokyo-exodus-part-2-thriving-metropolis-or-ghost-town
Unit 4′s spent rod pool seems the most at risk. It’s rods were take out of the reactor on December 10th, so they’re pretty hot. The spent fuel in units 5 & 6 is apparently older and cooler, so those pools should evaporate more slowly.
All the pools are at risk, however, since the power grid apparently remains down – it’s dependent, in part, on power from nuke plants – AND because the design parameters did not include providing back-up power for their coolant pumps. No generators or batteries. “They’ll never be needed…”
What does that have to do with the location of the back-up generators? They are generating electricity to run those pumps and proximity to the source of electricity is irrelevant to the operation or efficiency of the pumps pumping water to provide cooling. Pumps being close to what they’re pumping has nothing to do with the location of the generators that power them.
Sorry. That was for ghostof911.
Kyodo
You mentioned on an earlier thread that you had sent me email, but I don’t see it. Could you try again? Thanks.
Jim was lamenting the location of the back-up generators that power the pumps, not the location of the pumps. What, do you think they only had 20 feet of wire?
True.
The common method is deepwell pumps (submerged pumps) and elevated generators.
In practice pumps cannot suck water much more than about 20 ft in elevation. If a pump pulls a vacuum, the atmospheric pressure push the water into the vacuum. The maximum “push” from the atmosphere is 30 ft.
Just In
EU energy chief says Japan reactor “out of control”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×4773372
“Europe’s energy chief warned on Wednesday of a further catastrophe at Japan’s nuclear site in the coming hours but his spokeswoman said he had no specific or privileged information on the situation.”
Water Cannon idea sounds insane?
The spent fuel rod pools, upper right in the diagram, are 45′ deep, with 30′ of water covering the 15′ of stacked rods on the bottom. That’s the design. Without fresh coolant, the water is down considerably, which accelerates the accumulation of heat, a vicious cycle.
More from Reuters: “IAEA head says core damage at units 1-3 of Japan’s quake-hit nuclear plant confirmed, situation very serious”
Thank you Scarecrow
and thank you Lobster, 4cdave, deepharm, Jim White, and all the others who have added to our understanding of this catastrophe
was telling a firedog tweep – there are numerous “ya gotta follow this gal/guy on Japan !” messages on twitter – noticed whenever I actually followed one,they were merely retweeting what they were reading here :D
it was that link dahlin’ :D
There is likely cooling associated with the generators, so they would have been located close to the coolant source.
Water canon sounds insane, but I guess it beats doing nothing.
Japan can teach us lessons about nuclear technology and I don’t mean object lessons in nuclear safety. American Zen‘s Mike Flannigan posts a blistering article about Obama, his pro-corporate energy policy, hideous timing and the money that drives those ruinous policies.
Hydrogen is generated when the metal oxidizes (corrodes), and extracts the oxygen necessary for corrosion for water. Hydrogen is releases.
The reaction happens because the ece (electro chemical equivalent) of the metal in higher than the ece of the hydrogen, that is the metal with the higher ece displaces the metal with the lower ece. Hydrogen is acting as a metal in this chemical reaction.
It’s got nothing to do with “cooking”, although the reaction (oxidation) is accelerated by heat.
Agree: thanks to all here at FDL who doing excellent reporting on this very sad and very terrifying situation in Japan (and also elsewhere). I am very grateful to get real news about what’s happening.
All the reports refer to ‘diesel backup generators” not direct drive diesel pumps. In other words the generators were intended to provide electricity to run the existing everyday electric motor driven pumps.
The only cost in elevating the generators would have been a vew dozen feet of wire and pipe with no effect om pumping efficiency.
No. It’s essentially a tank with a very high pressure hose assembly instead of a cannon. It’s an armored fire truck, but unlike a fire truck, it’s enclosed.
It’s mobile and can shoot quite a distance. They normally shoot out and down to disperse unruly crowds, not up four or more stories into buildings. Their tanks would run dry quickly unless steadily replenished. There are spent fuel rod pools in each unit – assuming all are intact – all of which are losing water due to boiling off.
“You can be in my dream if I can be in yours.” Bob Dylan
They have heat exchangers! You know, radiators? Like every diesel engine in the world. Stop it!
Still thinking that one through. They fill the containment structure surrounding the reactor vessel with nitrogen to minimize risks of hydrogen-oxygen explosion, in the event of hydrogen releases from the reactor. I don’t thing that’s the whole building. But once the containment structure is breached, does it matter?
from wikileaks docs:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikileaks-files/8383960/3-4-DECEMBER-NUCLEAR-SAFETY-AND-SECURITY-GROUP.html
Actually, the spent fuel pools are 45′ high – about four stories – and they are sitting several stories high. So those water cannon have to shoot 8-10 stories high to get water into the tops of the pools.
IAEA
Good article. Unfortunately for us proles who have to actually, you know, live close to such reactors… well our thoughts and concerns are of *no value* to such MOTU and their paid shill lackeys, like Obama. The MOTU have great big old personal jets & they’ll just fly away somewhere when the going gets tough. IF the proles die in the scores – as they did in Ukraine & undoubtedly have/will in Japan – tough. Who cares? The Elites got THEIRS; EFF the rest of yas… too bad so sad, get used to it.
So actually, the biggest danger from this is that if some rods start to burn, they create a local environment where it is no longer safe to work on the rest of the plant. That’s the way I see it. Any one source of high radioactivity makes it impossible to work on the other places and other units, which is why the whole thing is such a constant panic/juggling game. If it weren’t for that, each unit could be approached with sufficient resources and much more logically. But right now, every bit of a tiny resource pool has to divert immediately to the new source of high radiation. Which also means the singleton crew gets maximum exposure.
This needs a large re-think to bring it out of crisis mode. Would it be possible to bring in forest fire equipment filled with boron/water mix in large quantities on all reactors at once and just inundate the area and then send teams in rotation to all reactors at once whether they’re in crisis or not to start flooding everything whether it needs it or not? Something needs to be done to get it out of chaos into simple equilibrium.
It may be the best idea they have at the moment, since every other option is disabled or made extremely hazardous by the radiation.
This ain’t in the manual.
New smoke from unit 3. (BBC)
In many places these diesel back up generators and battery banks are located underground. This would have isolated these power sources from tsunami waves. The electrical switches were also located in basements that were flooded, which makes connecting up portable sources impossible or difficult.
The Fukushima plants are very old (1-5), number six is newer, and these would have never been licensing under current standards. It appears the refurbishment of these plants when licenses were extended never addressed expensive upgrades that would have brought these plants up to more site appropriate standards (such as a sea wall in excess of several historical tsunamis in Japan). Plant was designed to withstand a 7.9 magnitude earthquake, and a 6.5 meter tsunami.
GE’s former CEO, Jack Welch, could give a rat’s ass. He’s made his billions and is likely right now sitting on his yacht lighting his Cuban’s with $100 bills.
What does the steady state look like? Will the Japanese have continuously to pour water into the holding ponds, and for how many years?
Thanks, and I’ve been remiss in not thanking you and other commenters for bringing news, liinks and insights to the site. Very much appreciated. And how about that diagram?
Indeed. Your approach sounds reasonable. The situation, though, points out the extreme insanity of locating so many units so close to one another.
According to cnbc this morning, private jet rates have gone up 20% since the disaster started. Now $160,000 for a plane seating 25.
Great article by Mike Flannigan…unfortunately the ‘horse is already out of the barn’ as the saying goes. Too bad those folks, like Obama and the rest of the MOTU never seem to get the payback they seemingly deserve…the karmic wheel spins, but some seem immune
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: Wisconsin: Randy Hopper’s Fleeting Connection to the Truth
I have a question,
the water, after being pumped in there, then becomes radioactive.
then where does it go?
back into the ocean?
if so, certainly a large area of the ocean around there will become contaminated.
then what?
another question.
at what point do they treat it like chernobyl, and bury it in a mountain of concrete?
It’s not something most people ordinarily experience, but if water is heated to an extremely high temperature (over 2000 C), some of the water molecules will dissociate into their component elements, hydrogen and oxygen. This is an endothermic reaction (it absorbs heat). Once those gases are away from the zone of high temperature though, they are free to react as they normally do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_splitting#Thermal_decomposition_of_water
I have actually experienced this on (thankfully) a small scale. I used to work in a facility that used water-cooled induction furnaces that operated in that temperature range. One day one of the cooling tubes developed a leak on the inside, spraying water into the furnace. Of course it was complicated by the fact that the furnace was full of graphite tooling, and at those temperatures, steam burns graphite. In any case, it was a big scary mess, but nothing compared with what they’re dealing with in Japan.
You can’t pour concrete around something you can’t even get close to because of lethal radiation. We’re months, maybe years from that. Just a guess.
Yes. And it points out the total tyranny of NIMBY and tax cuts. A country absolutely obsessed with tsunami bought a cheapshot nuclear power plant and put it on the beach.
But right now the issue is putting this thing out. If you suppress the dimerized DNA fears for just a second, the thing really does look like a forest fire: Big hot place too dangerous to get too close to that is endangering population centers nearby and needs special water to cool it down. Canada, Russia, and the U.S. are really really good at those. Russia’s equipment is in use, but ours isn’t.
This whole thing demonstrates the impossibility of safe, for profit, unregulated, or poorly regulated nuclear power generation.
It just can’t be done under any system. someone will always screw up for some reason or other.
incompetence, or greed. or both.
I wonder if the president would like to have spent nuclear waste sitting in drums in his neighbourhood for forty or fifty years.
Why this system failed
That’s the whole point of paying any attention at all to the minutiae here. If the system failed for reasons that nobody could have predicted, then maybe nuclear power really is some sort of engineering “bridge too far”, just inherently too complicated and fraught to be done with the degree of security required by the very high costs of system failure. If the problems were predictable, on the other hand, and simply weren’t avoided because avoiding them was thought to be too expensive, then the problem isn’t nuclear engineering, it’s the human engineering that fails and allows the regulatory capture that lets nuclear power operators privatize the profits and socialize the risks.
Along the lines of the latter possibility, I am beginning to think that perhaps the fundamental human engineering flaw here was that TEPCO was allowed to do too much in too limited a space.
The failure of the on-site generators is being blamed on their positioning on low ground with an insufficiently high seawall. Nobody made TEPCO spend on a reasonably high seawall, and/or they allowed TEPCO to position the generators on low ground because there presumably wasn’t enough high ground available on a site that TEPCO was allowed to cram full with with six reactors.
TEPCO was allowed to put spent fuel rod holding pools on the fourth floor level of the reactor buildings. This obviously creates some basic difficulties keeping them properly “irrigated” in the face of a station blackout that you wouldn’t face if the pools were outside the buildings, at ground level.
We’re told the buildings are designed to give way to a blast in order to deflect the energy of any explosion away from the more critical containment engineering around the reactors themselves. The building walls provide some containment, but not nearly as effective as the structures that would be at risk if these walls were sturdy enough to withstand an explosion, so you sacrifice the building’s containment effect to preserve that of the reactor vessel. Fair enough. But if you put a spent fuel pond on the fourth floor of the reactor building, then you’re giving the walls of that building another critical function that, unlike its meager contribution to containment, can’t be sacrificed, that of holding the plumbing that keeps your ponds irrigated.
Obviously, if you take the station blackout scenario seriously, you need to have irrigation to your critical elements, the reactors and ponds, that can do as much as possible without electricity. Maybe you need so much pressure to keep the closed reactor vessels irrigated that you need some electricity to work some sort of pumps. But you can relieve the dependence on electricity for the ponds by putting them at ground level and putting a water reservoir at a higher elevation, so that gravity, which never fails, can sub for electricity when the latter gives out. Who knows, maybe gravity could supply enough pressure behind the waterhead that you could irrigate the reactors as well, but I’m no expert, so I can’t say. At any rate, such a solution would clearly have taken up real estate, compared to putting ponds on fourth floors. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon took this approach to cram a lot of green into a small space, but I don’t think that design goal is comparable to what the design goal at this plant should have been.
I’m suggesting that it sure looks like TEPCO might have been allowed to cram more power generation into this space than it could safely bear. That would have been good for their bottom line, as I’m sure real estate in Japan is expensive, as it is one of the most densely populated spots on the planet. But that density makes a meltdown really, really bad for the bottom line of Japanese society.
It’s not insane so much as useless.
This looks like a very recent picture posted in a comment on the UCS site. Seems hard to believe that they have any control over what is happening in whats left of the uper floors of the comtainment building.
http://www.digitalglobe.com/downloads/featured_images/japan_earthquaketsu_fukushima_daiichi2_march16_2011_dg.jpg
Makes for good theater, though, as they flail around for anything to try.
From Reuters:
Europe’s energy chief warned on Wednesday of a further catastrophe at Japan’s nuclear site in the coming hours but his spokeswoman said he had no specific or privileged information on the situation.
He said the nuclear site was “effectively out of control.”
“The cooling systems did not work, and as a result we are somewhere between a disaster and a major disaster,” he said.
That photo is terrific! In a macabre, horror-show sort of way.
Are you two married? Just curious… ;)
The plants which Obama now has contracted Tokyo Electric to help build are located on the Texas Gulf Coast. And we just heard our leader maintain that nuclear power is still on the agenda. Greg Palast calls into question the integrity of backup systems but we don’t even have to go there with the intensity of the earthquake related phenomena the world is currently experiencing.
It does indeed relate directly back in a series of practical, if Rube Goldberg like, steps to global warming. It stands to reason that the oceans of the world are becoming significantly heavier as the poles melt. Keep pouring water into a balloon and it stretches, splits. With the inevitability of such catastrophic seismic events in subduction zones, and even in places like Christchurch where earthquakes have never happened before – that means, folks, that nuclear power is OFF THE TABLE now (as it reallty has always been.) The table is slanting dangerously.
All presently operating nuclear plants should be shut down while there is still a chance to do it.
Wow. I hadn’t seen photos from the ocean side of the complex before. I didn’t realize that all of units 1-4 appear to have a common building on the ground level. Photos from the onshore side of the complex make the four units look like they are in individual buildings. Does anyone know where the other two units are in this photo? (I thought there were six in the complex).
Exactly
We’re told that the buildings have walls that are designed to give way in a blast, because such a blast inside the building could occur in a station blackout scenario, and you want the walls to give way so that the force of the blast will dissipate without breaching the steel and concrete containment structures immediatley surrounding the reactor.
But the walls also hold up all this other critical stuff, most importantly, the spent fuel pools, which need to maintain a water supply or they will cause as much problem as a reactor meltdown.
I’m just a lay person, but this sort of Hanging Gardens approach to storing spent fuel seems insane to me. The only sense it makes to me is as a space-saving feature, but that just begs the question, because it’s insane to let the “efficient” use of space have any priority in designing a nuclear reactor.
Thanks, I’ll add a link.
I hope everyone reads Greg Palast’s report. It confirms what I’ve long suspected about the pervasive dishonesty of the PTB in the nuclear industry and must be seriously considered before any decision is made about building new power plants, or continuing to use existing ones.
Our bought-and-paid-for corrupt President intends to shove nuclear power plants down our throats without regard for how dangerous they are, whether there is any need for them, and whether we-the people want them or not. We must stop him and I don’t believe I overstate the danger when I say that our lives and the lives of our descendants depend on our success.
Thanks for the link, gigi3.
If I had a Twitter account I would tweet things like this:
“Fukushima 5 GW nuclear power station: too big to fail. Thus, too big to exist.”
“100 year, post-nuclear future: human lifespans back down to 42, but species survives series of radiation accidents.”
“Note to self: big earthquakes cause big tsunami. Correlated risks!”
“Banksters failed to account for correlated house price movements. Nuclear engineers failed to account for correlated risks. Too big to fail, too big to exist.”
“Efficiency concentrates risk because it is hard to predict the future.”
If you like any of them, have at it.
By “too big to exist” I mean to echo B Sanders (as I recall), so I am saying that such large entities should not be produced in the first place.
Doesn’t that sort of support the idea that “karma” doesn’t exist, when like “god”, the only people expected to play by the rules and accept the consequences are the abused and the powerless?
“back into the ocean?”
No. It turns into steam and floats on the wind.
And believe it or not, this is now a relatively good option.
Video report of tsunami damage, town of Kesennuma, north of Fukushima.
YouTube
Tuna fishing fleet thrown 100 yards inland, houses floating down main street (amateur video), ruptured fuel tanks, etc.
As I recall, the initial concrete/sand mix was poured on Chernobyl from helicopters and the helicopter crews did not survive (my memory only).
My gut tells me this is not a good option here, but I need to think it through to nail down the issues before posting more.
Yes, six, but the last two were added later at another area in the same Station complex.
Efficiency concentrates risk.
Yep. “Relatively” is the point; the choices are now all between godawful and hellacious.
And every time I look at the damage photos, I keep going back to unit 3. It looks to me that the upper level of the outer support superstructure on this unit collapsed in the explosion. That has me worried about the fate of any spent fuel stored in the high level of that building.
I wonder if we could get Pat Eddington to do a little photo research on this, trying to correlate the schematics with the damage photos.
“…the oligarchs are bugging out…”
Bad cbl…bad…
we’re not supposed to laugh at this, but that’s funny.
thanks.
so this will be
radioactive steam, then condenses to radioactive water, which will either form clouds, or just fall to the ground as rain, but which eventually will end up as radioactive precipitation one way or the other.
From ABC News. Kaku is described earlier in the article as a theoretical physicist
In another sign of escalating nuclear danger, Cabinet Secretary Edano acknowledged that the containment vessels of some of the reactors are likely damaged. The Japan Atomic Industrial Forum confirmed damage to Units 2 and 3.
The last step in a nuclear meltdown is the breaching of the containment vessels. The fact that at least two containment vessels are damaged makes nuclear experts nervous.
“We have cracks now, cracks in the containment vessels…and if those cracks grow or if there’s an explosion, we’re talking a full blown Chernobyl, something beyond Chernobyl,” Kaku said.
“I think the last ace in the hole is the Japanese Air Force, the military at some point may have to take over, may have to bury these reactors in concrete just like we did at Chernobyl, sandbagging the reactor with 5,000 tons of concrete, boric acid and sand,” Kaku said.
Earlier today, government officials called off a plan for helicopters to dump seawater on the troubled reactors because of the heightened radiation levels.
The Japanese government has asked for the United States’ help in the crisis.
Already, seven additional experts from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission arrived in Japan today.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/japan-nuclear-crisis-rising-radiation-levels-halt-fukushima/story?id=13146516&page=2
It seems to be more a function of proximity to the reactor vessel – quick in/out. The common pool is far larger and is likely the intended final destination for all of it (until they figure out what we’re actually going to do with all this crap).
POTUS is playing basketball and doing game picks as japan and the world is facing its most serious crises. WFT
Did anyone else notice that Japan’s Radioactivity forecast system is pretty much down?
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_16.html
Seems like the sort of thing it would be nice to have up and running for this whole mess.
Not the best visual.
In the region of the accident it will be best not to go out in the rain or snow as a general rule.
This was a lesson learned (re-learned?) from Chernobyl.
From Union of Concerned Scientists
They have an article “Spent Fuel Pools at Fukushima” they might as well have copied from yesterday’s thread. A couple of interesting bits:
I believe the technical term for that is “Winning the Future”.
Outstanding compilation and summary of all that was being discussed yesterday, Scarecrow . . . just magnificent work on your part, Bill Engor, Jim White and those who comment that you have acknowledged, and those commenting above.
The graphic above is incredible . . . shows it all. Answers most of any questions I had yesterday.
Now, we hope and pray and wish for a best possible outcome.
Bless everyone there in harm’s way and those who have passed since last Fridy . . .
Confirmation from NY Times that two container vessels appear to have been ruptured. I saw a translation from Japanese, but have found no confirmation, that TEPCO has apologized for a reporting error and that the pressure inside reactor #2 is much lower than previously reported.
Japan’s nuclear crisis intensified on Wednesday after the authorities announced that a second reactor unit at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi plant in northeastern Japan may have ruptured and appeared to be releasing radioactive steam.
Japanese television showed what appeared to be steam rising from reactor No. 3 at the Fukushima Daiichi plant about 10 a.m. Wednesday.
The break, at the No. 3 reactor unit, worsened the already perilous conditions at the plant, a day after officials said the containment vessel in the No. 2 reactor had also cracked.
“the only people expected to play by the rules and accept the consequences are the abused and the powerless?”
seems that way doesn’t it?
Chernobyl Children International
http://www.chernobyl-international.com/chernobyl-sarcophagus.html
“in the weeks following the explosion, thousands of people risked their lives building a massive concrete ‘sarcophagus’ around the damaged Reactor Four. This sarcophagus encases the damaged nuclear reactor and was designed to halt the release of further radiation into the atmosphere. However, hastily constructed this structure is now cracking open and leaking out lethal doses of radiation. ”
the original Chernobyl “sarcophagus” is leaking, and failing so….
In early 2003 engineers began
completing plans for what may be the largest moveable structure ever built, a 20,000 ton steel shell to replace the failed sarcophagus. After construction this structure will be big enough to house the Statue of Liberty. Inside, robotic cranes and, where possible, live workers will then begin the delicate job of prying apart the wreckage and removing the radioactive materials.
A Chernobyl Shelter Fund was established in 1997 at the Denver G8 Summit to finance the Shelter Implementation Plan (SIP). The plan calls for transforming the site into an ecologically safe condition by stabilising the Sarcophagus followed by construction of a New Safe Confinement NSC.
The conceptual design for the NSC consists of a movable arch, constructed away from the shelter to avoid high radiation, to be slid over the sarcophagus. The NSC originally expected the project to be completed in 2012 but there has been further delays.When completed it will be the largest movable structure ever built.
25 years after the accident, the construction of the New Safe Confinement for destroyed reactor 4 is about to begin and a storage facility for spent fuel from the operations of reactors 1-3 can now be finalised after the Ukrainian regulator has approved the project design. Approval is expected early in 2011. However, funding for the two projects is not yet fully secured. In total, €740 million in additional financing still needs to be raised.
The New Safe Confinement structure will have a span of 257 metres, a length of 164 metres, a height of 110 metres and a weight of 29,000 tons.”
“FUNDING NOT YET SECURED”
a bunch of Alfred E. Neumans are running the world.
Kyodo
U.S. to fly spy plane over Fukushima nuclear plant for closer look
Obama should get himself a guitar.
This could go on for weeks or months, and that would be better than the alternative from a public health perspective.
From the powerpoint on the spent fuel rod pools, I believe the common building is the “common pool” building, but I am very challenged when it comes to visuospatial skills.
Great work in the White House. They’re catching up with where I was on Sunday night:
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/14/nuke-engineer-fuel-rod-fire-at-stricken-reactor-would-be-like-chernobyl-on-steroids/
The feckless bastards wasted 2.5 days we didn’t have.
I was in Holland the week after Chernobyl and the government constantly announcing “stay out of the rain, stay out of the canals, don’t drink the milk, don’t eat vegetables.” Radio, TV, newspapers, constant messaging. It was quite unnerving, especially considering the regular rain the Netherlands get in May. Whew!
There’s a report upthread (from 4cdave) of 6600x background levels in the town the reactor is in. That’s ~1-5 mSv / hr (depending on what they take as the normal background level.)
Which is a lot if you were planning to stay indoors for the next week.
Or how about this:
“Too big to fail is too big.”
That could have legs.
I have been thinking about how to fill these pools up with water and why the helicopter drop probably will not work. I think that the image at the top of this post is only the bottom half of reactor buildings structures best depicted by this image:
http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20110312&Category=NEWS07&ArtNo=110312005&Ref=AR&Profile=1009&MaxW=300&Border=0
I would bet that the top half of these buildings contain the environmental control units and a lot of open space and that is where the hydrogen vapor collected and blew off the roof’s.
This picture is the highest definition/blown up picture I could find of the 1-4 reactor buildings:
http://mariogregorio.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/wpid-fukushima-japan.jpg
As you can see there is still a roof level above the pool level easily observed in the bottom left building; so dropping water from an aircraft looks to be ineffective. Building 3 has much more structural damage but this does not mean that the holes are directly above the storage pools.
Short of having demolition personnel creating holes directly above the pools I see no indication that water toting aircraft will have any effect. Creating holes above the pools would also drop the debris right into the pools creating additional problems.
The best effective method IMO would be to come in from the sides of the buildings with water pumps/firetruck hosing directly into the storage ponds. That would almost certainly expose the personnel attempting this but may be the only option.
I theorize that the plumbing that is currently being used to try to pump sea water into the reactor vessels is the only plumbing available and is barely adequate for this task. Trying to pump into the storage pools and the reactor vessel at the same time may be inadequate for both.
As the water level in the storage pools drops further the temperature of the water increases further, increasing the rate of depletion by boiling off the water faster. It seems that ever since the tsunami this has been a festering problem and it is now coming to a head, so to speak. The next couple days/hours are crucial.
A cheap Chinese one, though. No Les Paul or Strat or Tele for him.
Can the Global Hawks be repurposed to drop cement/sand instead of bombs?
…and a soul!
Sure
The Hanging Gardens probably passed muster as a temporary holding place for rods as you switch the old, spent ones out for the new rods.
Obviously the time limit for keeping spent rods in these fourth floor pools should have been the restarting of the reactor after the rod switch-out. The reasoning behind such a time limit is straightforward. The building walls have to be breakaway because to have blast-proof walls would threaten breach of the containment vessel in the event of a station blackout while the reactor is operational, and the consequent risk of hydrogen generation, etc. Great, but that means that those Hanging Garden spent rod pools cannot be in use while the reactor is operational and therefore liable to cause an explosion that would destroy the walls of the building. Clearly they weren’t using the Hannging Gardens per that reasonable spec, they were stashing spent fuel in them indefinitely.
I can’t say that I have a firm handle on the number and location of all the spent fuel ponds at this site, but my impression is that it isn’t just the Hanging Gardens inside the buildings plus one big common pool. I’ve read accounts that they have all sorts of such ponds all over the grounds, and accounts that they are all filled over the design specs.
About 20 years ago when I was living in GA, they had this problem at a mortuary near Atlanta, a story which was very striking, but perhaps didn’t get much national play. This business got behind a bit initially on handling corpses, but that snowballed. Apparently once you let your standards go in handling human remains, there are no further effective barriers to what you’ll sink to. At any rate, by the time outside inspectors got into the place, they had long since passed the point of having bodies so stacked, “like cordwood”, as the inevitable descriptor put it, in even the worksheds they would have needed to operate to dispose of bodies, that they couldn’t have done their job anymore if they wanted to. It’s so much easier, short-term, to just stash a body here or there, than to actually do what you’re supposed to do with it, that taking the easy way out just gets ahead of you before you know it.
I’m getting the impression that they were just stacking the dead bodies of these fuel rods here or there at this site, selling off long-term safety for immediate convenience. But while it’s understandable, if shameful, that a mortuary business is allowed to go years without regulatory oversight, it’s just suicidal that a nuclear power plant is allowed to operate on the basis of short-term convenience of the operator.
linky
1900 lbs. payload
They don’t drop bombs, they fire missiles. I’m sort of envisioning setting them up like a concrete slurry bomber.
I suspect we will see some creative uses of drones in the coming hours/days/months as this plays out. Also some sort of robots, though as I posted at the end of the last thread, they may not be able to take any existing robots and use them in high radiation, they may need to redesign circuits using radiation hardened ICs.
They probably did.
Excellent recap, Scarecrow.
NHK TV is finally bringing some of Japan’s national expertise to bear in its coverage of the nuclear plant crisis, to thoroughly explain and illustrate what’s happening, as best they can. Scarecrow linked to one of their helpful new reenactments:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://firedoglake.com/&medium=7497266
Between about 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Japan time last night (Wednesday), it was apparently clarified that the massive steam release that morning was likely not caused by a crack in the suppression chamber of Unit 3′s PCV (the concrete/steel-lined Primary Containment Vessel that surrounds the steel reactor vessel), as had been surmised. Rather, the suspicion seems to be squarely focused now on the spent fuel rod pool at Unit 3. [Radiation levels Tuesday evening, probably at the plant gate, were back down to around 300 microsieverts, I believe I heard, but remain higher/highest at or near Unit 3.]
Given what happened at Unit 4 (with an empty reactor core), perhaps the hydrogen explosions at Units 1 and 3 (the post, by the way, mistakenly lists explosions in “Units 1, 2, and 4″ in the paragraph right above the Update) were not caused simply by the manual releases of steam from the PCV surrounding the reactor, but more so, or partly so, by hydrogen escaping from the spent fuel rod pools high in those reactor buildings.
The newer, indepth NHK TV coverage pointed out that the diesel generators at this plant are underground, between the reactor buildings and the ocean, in the lower buildings we see there. And that their fuel storage tanks were between those buildings and the ocean, and were swept away by the tsunami (you could see that in NHK’s before and after aerial or satellite photos).
Also, Unit 6 has operating back-up diesel generator power – its generator wasn’t lost in the tsunami (Units 5 & 6 are on slightly higher ground, and off to the side). I’m not sure that solves the problem of getting new water into its spent fuel pool, per lobster’s current diary, but it presumably reduces some problems at those plants (Unit 5 can tap into Unit 6′s power, apparently), as compared to the other four.
As Crane-Station notes above, a crucial question that seems to be shaping up now is whether, if water can be placed in the spent fuel pools in the near future, the pool structures themselves are intact enough to hold that water. Here’s hoping mightily that the explosions at Units 3 and 4 did not damage the walls and floor of those pools enough to allow water to escape, other than by steam venting through the opening where their metal covers used to be.
I’m kind of going by a quick combination of memory and guesses and numbers of dubious certainty, but I guess that the spent fuel rods in the ponds are probably subject to about 80 MW of radiation decay heating. (If anyone has seen a credible number please point me at it!)
That’s the number to keep in mind when evaluating any schemes for dumping water. A perfect water cooling scheme (which you’re unlikely to acheive from something jury-rigged and dumped from helicopters) at atmospheric pressure can cool at a rate of about 400kJ per kilogram of water used. If I got all the numbers right you need about 3000 gallons per minute for a perfect cooling scheme. Derate that by an inefficiency you invent (I’d invent 0.1 if I were feeling optimistic) and that’s what you need to provide. Every minute. From now until you’re done.
Someone should check the numbers, but some such calculation forms the basis of an estimate whether any proposed cooling scheme has any chance of helping.
This post gives a nice addition to your post. You can use this post to improve your numbers possibly.
http://reindeerflotilla.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/fukushima-redux/
If you are letting the water boil, the bulk of the heat will be removed via latent heat of vaporization (plus convection, radiation, conduction through the concrete). I’m getting 563 gal/minute boiled away for 80 MW.
Replacing what boils off is the best you are going to be able to do with a fire hose or water cannon.
Scarecrow, a driveby, but I don’t think any commenters have brought this to your attention yet:
Interested FDLers may want to check the English language reporting of Asahi Shumbun daily.
Apologies – mistype. Should be ‘Asahi Shimbun’.
My bad.
I gather from the interview with the two experts that the rupture of the torus or suppression chamber, which is the donut shaped chamber that surrounds the lower chamber of the steel-alloy structure that contains the nuclear core, does not mean that the reactor core has been breached. Therefore, if there were a meltdown in the core, the molten radioactive puddle that would collect in the bottom of the chamber would be contained and remain inside the chamber, unless of course the chamber has been breached. In other words, the breach to the torus does not mean that the chamber has been breached. It does mean, however, that radioactive steam produced in the nuclear core is escaping from the torus and they have lost the ability to cool down that reaction except for the use of seawater, which they are trying to pump in with little, if any, success. That radioactive steam contains hydrogen, which is explosive, so the possibility of additional explosions and attendant damage cannot be ruled out at this point.
I was shocked and dismayed by Professor Yamaguchi’s vagueness and uncertainty when he attempted to assure the interviewer that there is little danger of “criticality” from exposed fuel rods in the cooling pools. “Because they are so far apart” and “many of the rods are spent”, he doesn’t believe they will melt and form a molten radioactive pool that would not be contained, of course, by the pools in which they are located. Much, if not all, of the water in those pools has apparently evaporated exposing the rods and they are heating up. The ongoing fires in reactor 4 are caused by that process and he did not seem to be as convinced as the words he was speaking that there was no danger of “criticality.”
The good news from reactors 5 and 6 is that they have a pump working in 6 that they are using to pump water and keep the water level up in the cooling pools of both reactors.
two questions for someone who actually knows something (that would not be me) re this quote from lobster:
and this from wikipedia:
other than the safety issues, does the presence of plutonium in this fuel type play a role in cooling requirements and/or process? what would a start date of last september mean re the likelihood of “spent” MOX in the unit 3 storage pond?
The lack of information, people and equipment there shouts denial. Denial, face saving, lack of independent out of the box thinking and all those cultural stereotypes.
When those back up generators failed then the worst case scenario was on the table. When this story is written it will be the story of how they didn’t use every conceivable ounce of brainpower, manpower and machine power to try and stave off disaster. Maybe they couldn’t have but the didn’t try.
For the entire time I’ve been awake today, the lead story on Yahoo news is an AP piece with a headline about workers “preparing” to return to the facility to work. I still see no word that they actually have returned. They’ve been out for a very long time, suggesting to me that the exposure rate measurements aren’t dropping very fast.
from Reuters: More comments from the NRC chair, says spent fuel pool at Reactor 4 has no water, radiation levels are “extremely high”
yeah, after watching that video for the third time, I added reference to the Unit 6 generators and fixed reference to which buildings blew out the walls and roof.
I’ll make additional edits per your update. Thanks.
re: “The lack of information”
jmo, but i think there are alternative explanations — at least at this early date — for the lack of info. could be that the people in a position to know anything are busy doing other things just now. time will tell….
misinformation, though, as opposed to lack of information, is another story….
you what? If that’s true it’s horrifying. There has to have been a catastrophic loss of water due to a breach. It wouldn’t have evaporated that fast. Is it certain they don’t mean “no water can be added” because the cooling system has failed?
al-Jazeera live blog
Tidbits:
Jim, the Guardian reported earlier today about the Japanese PM becoming furious with TEPCO over lack of info, about a reactor explosion that the PM learned about on TV.
Assuming the Guardian’s report is legit, he basically told TEPCO to get their employees back into those reactors to work or it was ’100% certain’ that TEPCO was going out of business. Ahem.
And FYI, people need to stop listening to press b.s. about ‘spent fuel’. That ‘spent fuel’ is an nice aphorism for nuclear waste, which is what it actually is.
Ask anyone who works around issues related to nuclear waste leaking over around Hanford, WA, which is **the** most toxic site in the US.
Well said. It’s important to always make excuses for officials.
reuters is publishing the comments the NRC Chair is giving to Congress. don’t have any further context for the comment above.
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2
Looks like you and I are worried about the same thing; what happened to those facilities that all of a sudden the water — which has obviously been able to cool that waste previously — is now ‘evaporating’?
Worrying.
What people? Whose in charge? Can anyone name 10 people in charge? 2? Who are they talking to? Where is the equipment and manpower? If not there then staged somewhere.
You can say this for the Russians. They dove in head first using every possible ad hoc idea under the sun and kept at it and kept at it and kept at it.
Here? 50 workers.
OK, there is something, some pumps. The US and Japanese military’s should have been putting every damn pump, hose, piece of pipe, generator, and piece of protective gear in motion by last Saturday afternoon at the latest.
Headline on Marketwatch “5 Nuclear Stocks to Buy”
It’s very unlikely it could have evaporated that fast. The container is breached which means it may no longer be able to be cooled under any circumstances.
The briefing by NRC really has brought terrifying clarity to the situation.
IS THERE ANYBODY AT FDL WHO CAN WRITE A POST ABOUT RADIATION? SPECIFICALLY, WHAT DO THE VARIOUS REPORTED LEVELS PORTEND FOR PUBLIC HEALTH IN THE SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM — IN JAPAN AND ELSEWHERE?
They’re not stupid…they’re homicidally insane.
“When this story is written it will be the story of how they didn’t use every conceivable ounce of brainpower, manpower and machine power to try and stave off disaster. Maybe they couldn’t have but the didn’t try.”
With respect, you can’t know this. I’m sure we all can come up with ten ways things could have been handled differently–and better.
But.
Here’s a couple of examples of what I have been thinking, starting Friday.
-Grab some portable diesel generators on semi’s and drive them to the plant. Even if they are in Tokyo, the plants shouldn’t be more than four hours away. Oh but wait, all the roads are closed with debris. Some bridges are down. The infrastructure is trashed. And I would think that would be the first thing the engineers would think of, so if it could be done, it would have.
-Helicopter in some generators. Back in ’75 we brought in huge D9 Cats over the mountains of coastal Alaska for the pipeline, half a Cat at a time. So generators, sure. But do they have any flying commercial heavy-lifting helicopters around, and does anyone know where a “spare” generator rig is? Can’t snap your fingers and come up with a large commercial generator capable of being airlifted into a disaster area, doesn’t work that way–most generator rigs are bolted in with a building. Plus the tsunami took out a lot of airports… So there’s more here than meets the eye.
And so on. We just don’t know, and while it’s certainly evident that the utility and government leadership has stonewalled the thing, I don’t think you can make the claim that “cultural stereotypes” crippled the people doing the job, without more inside information. Shows some level of cultural insensitivity, at minimum.
Yes, I agree, I had the wrong number for the latent heat so the heat capacity was dominating.
Now hopefully we can find I was wrong by a factor of 6 in the total heat load, too.
It was done yesterday, go back to earlier posts, Jim white, A layman’s guide to radiation and health.
this will get you started: “A Layman’s Guide to Radiation and Human Health” by Jim White.
http://my.firedoglake.com/jimwhite/2011/03/15/a-laymans-guide-to-radiation-and-human-health/
I vaguely recall that someone posted that with total power loss ponds boil off in 100-140 hours. We’re in that range by now.
OT – sort of. There’s a second dead town. Ishinomaki-Miyagi’s mayor is reporting that they’ve discovered that over 10,000 of the city’s population are missing and believed dead. (being covered so far in the Guardian, New York Post).
true. Hard to tell really what may be going on. Boiling off would mean lots of steam though, surely? Wouldn’t it have been visible?
Don’t know if this has been posted yet, but the U.S. NRC is stating flatly, that one of the storage pools for rods has no water in it. Zero. The Japanese authorities are denying it:
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20110316/D9M0HCFO4.html
Maybe, the Japanese should bring in BP to handle this?
The faulty reasoning demonstrated by the so called nuclear experts is astounding. I guess designing for the worst case when the consequences of failure are immeasurable is out the question when you consider economics.
The New York Times is reporting that US officials said in testimony today that “radiation levels are “extremely high.” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/world/asia/17nuclear.html
Well, Seaglass, the U.S. Coast Guard is prolly available for some heavy-duty low-balling…
As the tragedy in Japan lurches towards some sort of end-game I remain hopeful that steps will be taken soon to mitigate this horror. Luck will be involved, plus innovation and courage.
While living in the UK ten years ago, I had a neighbor, a nuclear engineer, who would rant incessantly about the stupidity of creating or using MOX for reactor fuel. He would go nearly airborne when he explained what would happen to stored MOX if a pool failed. He claimed it was difficult to manufacture, had severe quality control problems, behaved differently within a BWR, and most especially, was very fragile in its spent state awaiting reprocessing.
I dug around and found some Greenpeace studies from about ten years ago on MOX. What follow is a quote from a study, followed by the link so that you all can have a look. This really is the elephant in the room.
“To summarise, plutonium MOX reactor fuel has physical properties that are different from ordinary UO2
reactor fuel, affecting the thermal and mechanical performance of the fuel rods. The main effects are:
• reduction of the control rod and neutron absorber worth’s because of the higher thermal absorption
cross-sections of Pu relative to those of U, reducing the margin for shutting down the reactor;63
• MOX has greater fission cross-sections at higher neutron energies than UO2 fuel, resulting in the
coolant void coefficient of reactivity being less negative for MOX than for UO2 fuel;
• the harder neutron energy spectrum in MOX fuel, and the consequent higher neutron energies, may
increase the damage done to the pressure vessel of the reactor by neutron irradiation,64 because the
thermal conductivity of MOX, compared with UO2, is reduced, the energy stored in the fuel rods in a
loss-of-coolant-accident is increased;
• higher temperatures also increase the release of fission gases from MOX fuel and increase the pressure
in the rods; plutonium hot spots may affect the behaviour of MOX fuel65 and the cladding of MOX
rods during reactivity accidents, a problem that has not been resolved66);
• the different concentrations of fission products and actinides in MOX fuel may increase the severity of
a reactor accident; the larger amounts of actinides in MOX fuel the decay heat of the fuel rods will be
greater;
• the much larger amounts (by between 5 and 22 times) of actinides in MOX fuel may increase, by about
one-third, the number of fatal cancers produced by a reactor accident. 67 Releases of up to 5 per cent of
the actinide inventory of a PWR core may be released in severe accidents, compared to up to 10 per
cent of the actinide inventory of a BWR core, such as that Oskarshamn.
In the context of accidents in reactors fuelled with MOX, it should be noted that, although MOX ceramic
melts at a temperature of about 1,800 degrees Centigrade, surface oxidation occurs at the much lower
temperature of about 250 degrees Centigrade if the fuel is exposed to air. At relatively low temperatures,
exposed MOX pellets produced respirable-sized particles following relatively short exposure periods. For
example, 1.87 per cent of the initial mass was rendered respirable when MOX fuel was exposed at 430
degrees Centigrade for 15 minutes, compared to 0.01 per cent at 800 degrees Centigrade.68 A particle with a
diameter less than 3 microns can be inhaled into the human lung, with public health risk of lung cancer due to the alpha radiation.
Link: archive.greenpeace.org/nuclear/transport/mox00/moxqcsweden.pdf
It’s no wonder efforts are being concentrated on the spent fuel ponds.
Did anyone post about the fact that the cost of renting a Learjet at Tokyo airport, in which to do the radiation boogie, has gone up 20% in the last 48 hours?
Disaster profiteers should be shot. On sight, like the looters they are.
==modnote – NO violence==
My bad. That was just a trick of perspective. This photo shows the reactor buildings are all free-standing:
http://www.digitalglobe.com/downloads/featured_images/japan_earthquaketsu_fukushima_daiichi_march12_2011_dg.jpg
thank you.
that’s just the sort of info i was hoping someone had and/or could comment on.
The reuters article is making 3 important points. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/us-japan-nuclear-nrc-idUSTRE72F7PQ20110316
1)”Gregory Jaczko, head of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, also said at a House energy and commerce subcommittee hearing that the spent fuel pool at Japan’s troubled number four reactor has no water”.
2) “He added that there is also the possibility of a crack in the spent fuel pool in reactor three “which could lead to a lost of water in that pool.”
3)He said that radiation levels around the nuclear power plant may give emergency workers “lethal doses” of radiation, preventing them from getting near the plant.
3)”We believe that around the reactor site there are high levels of radiation,” Jaczko said. “It would be very difficult for emergency workers to get near the reactors. The doses they could experience would potentially be lethal doses in a very short period of time.”
No water, cracked containment so that it might not be able to be remedied, and finally, too much radiation to get near it all.
Seems like maybe things were much worse than the Japanese government was sharing all along.
whoops….
This action by the USG will not make you feel better
U.S. deploys more radiation detectors on Hawaii, other U.S. islands
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×4773985
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States is deploying additional radiation monitors on Hawaii and other U.S. islands even though it does not expect harmful levels of radiation from damaged Japanese nuclear power plants to reach U.S. soil, environmental regulators said.
Yes, it’s called water gas, and is best carried out in a reducing atmosphere (bed of hot coke or hot metal)
We are not at 2,000 deg C. We’d see that glow.
There were 800 on site until the radiation levels got too high. Now there are 50 at any one time, but these are a new 50 every few hours, because these workers are getting their maximum allowed lifetime dose (which was just raised by a factor of 2.5 yesterday) in those few hours. It is likely that many will die.
The whole seawater injection maneuver was extremely creative. Without that, the game would already be completely over.
It does make me think they might be taking this seriously, tho
Lots of steam was seen yesterday.
At the end of the boiling process, the water would boil much faster (accelerating). I think we saw that play out yesterday for unit 3.
Thanks again for all your work on this, I’ve noticed threads here are 2-3 days ahead of the curve at least.
Why weren’t those relief generators sent from GE the day after the crisis occurred? They just don’t seem to get it.
Dang, I may be confused about which unit is which. Let me check my notes and get back to this.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/us-nuclear-usa-detectors-idUSTRE72F8BY20110316?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews
This is the direct link to the rueters story if I did it right.
Sorry moderator.
The government has been sharing. TEPCO is a different story.
Things are accelerating at this point, too. As hope dwindles, heroic efforts can be forgotten.
The mistakes were made years ago and then not addressed in the meantime. The people onsite right now are heroes.
I meant to say: Rolled in lard and baked into a giant Twinkie. Then fed to hungry, Twinkie eating wolves.
It does seem like the picture has changed since our folks have gotten involved. And it does seem like they are putting safety first. But also then comes cynacism…we are getting more truth than we were, clearly. The story is starting to match up more closely with facts. But..the cynic in me doesn’t trust our government any more than theirs…so…who do you think you get can a device to measure radiation levels as Lowe’s?
When i was a kid in the seventies, my Dad workd with Civil Defense Corps. One day, he brought hom a clunky, ’50′s era Gieger counter to sniff our basement for Radon. It just stayed there. As far as I know, It’s still there…..
Glad it was of help to you. It looks to me as though entombing the containment buildings is a logical step in the next few days. Plutonium is bad stuff.
Now 6:18 am Thursday in Tokyo. The news cycle should be starting up pretty soon.
I’ve never heard of this “Luke Weston” crackpot at Nullius Reindeer Verbosity, but he appears to be another of the denialists repeating the unsubstantiated, unsourced claim that there’s nothing going on at #4 but a small “lubricating oil fire” that was quickly extinguished. I’ve heard this apologist idiocy also being spread by various nuclear industry promo shills so be cautious who you cite for unbiased info.
I wouldn’t rely on anything printed by this chucklehead.
I’m trying to understand how US NRC officials would have better information on radiation levels and the water level in Unit 4 storage ponds than the Japanese.
When you distrust liars, that’s not cynicism.
Not sure, myself, Scarecrow, but I remember Fidel Castro saying, years back, that if a cat walked across a Havana roof, the U.S. knew about it.
Would the NRC getting that dry-as-a-bone info from satellites?
ABC News
So, ABC reports US officials are publicly urging Japanese workers to undertake suicide missions?
IAEA
let’s pray togheter for Japan
Kyodo
Tokyo winds NNW @ 20 mph.
If there is no water in the pool, the temperature can’t be measured (assuming the measurement comes from a temperature probe in the water). That would explain the “no data” for today on unit 4′s pool and match with US claims the pool is dry.
The amount of MOX in Unit 3 has been reported consistently as 6%. As far as I have been able to determine (but this is not something I am fully aware of) there is no MOX in the spent fuel pond of Unit 3.
This does not mean there is no plutonium in the Unit 3 spent fuel (or any other spent fuel). There is, because plutonium is one of the constituents of spent fuel.
My impression was that workers are going to die, 50 at a time. What do people expect more workers with insufficient equipment to do?
Gamma rays can be detected at some distance, I believe. For example, from space.
NNE would be worse, right?
Looks like Unit 6 isn’t much better than Unit 5. Yet they reported elevated temps at Unit 5
Japan Atomic Energy Agency
This seems to be “Environmental Radiation Monitoring” (“airborn gamma radiation”?) for a few sites, in yet another unit called Greys. Seven day charts, they show a big spike on 3/15.
Maybe one of you clever people can make sense of it.
Japan map
http://www.japanluxuryhotel.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/japan-map.jpg
Yes. NNW is still out to sea. NNE and NE are what we are worried about.
On the nhk tv feed, a helicopter live shot early a.m. Thursday showed bits of smoke/steam rising from the plants, esp Unit 3. They reshow every 20 minutes or so.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://firedoglake.com/&medium=7497266
On Monday commenter MtnWoman (who worked at TMI for 12 years) educated us all about the NRC’s own study of spent fuel rod pools and events that could lead to zirconium fires:
“And then, there is the unspoken issue: the spent fuel pool.The most extensive assessment of the damage to be wrought by an exothermic fire in a spent fuel pool was developed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in October, 2000, and removed from public view following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The report is available here: http://www.rogerwitherspoon.com/docs/nrctechstudyosfprrisks-10-2000.pdf
Hope this helps!
(BTW, conclusions of the NRC study predict that BWR’s such as Fukushima, mean time to zirconium fire in spent fuel rod pools after loss of energy/seismic demolition is 145 hrs. Which – if my sleepy maths were correct – works out to about 6.04 days from the quake. Which works out to about fve and one-half hours from now.]
Here is a photograph of a fuel storage pool area, showing the crane above it.
http://www.sciencephoto.com/images/download_wm_image.html/T170622-Nuclear_reactor,_fuel_loading-SPL.jpg?id=841700622
Time for an updated post and new thread?
They’ve most assuredly retasked some to do just that. There are sigint agencies more secret that the NSA and they have lots of toys.
Restoring power will only improve some of these issues. Radiation is still hot enough in these units to make making repairs dangerous and slow. Pumps, hoses, fittings, monitors, cameras, etc. have to be repaired or replaced and put on line. Breaches in reactor vessels, containment vessels, spent fuel rod pools, etc., if any, and there seem to be more than one, need to be repaired. Short, medium and long term fixes need to be put in place and units either permanently mothballed or repaired/replaced and put back on line.
Restoring power is an essential step; but it will won’t “end” this catastrophe by a long shot. This is now a decades long fix.
Plus, with power still out on the grid, there are a plethora of increasing demands on every generator in the country: hospitals, communications, essential transportation infrastructure, heating/lighting for emergency shelters housing half a million or more people, search lights looking for the maimed and dead, etc.
Of course, preventing further nuclear destruction is top priority. But in the midst of this triple disaster, lots of people are at risk for immediate death and privation across swaths of Japan. Not to mention, as you say, getting them to this part of Japan means identifying which ones are available, sorting out how to remove, transport and re-install them.
Still, the first thing American airplanes bound for US bases in Japan had on them were spare generators. C-141′s, C-5′s, etc. carry lots of cargo. Where are they? It’s been days.
1 Gray = 1 Grey = 1 Sievert = 1 Sv for the types of radiation and situations we face here.
1,000 milli-Sieverts = 1 Sievert = 1 Gray
Amazing pictures from satellites.
Water cannon will start “soon”.
Not yet, but if something major happens . . .
This is a terrific find, 4cdave. We can use this to track the local readings at each of those sites. I’m trying to figure out where the four cities are. Right now, it looks like Tokai is the most interesting, as it is (roughly) between Tokyo and Fukushima.
Do you agree?
I can help with the units in a bit; right now, I want to bookmark links to the appropriate graphs so that we can check them over time. It is clear that the background radiation went up quite a bit.
Water cannon starting now? See NHK feed.
Live footage from helicopter to show the water cannon operation now.
NHK feed here
Nice.
Could be particularly dangerous when the water first arrives.
Tokai was also the city where one of the other reactors (later stabilized) we were concerned about was located. It seems to be in the outer burbs of the Tokyo metro area.
Helicopter on site. Presumably to get view and to take radiation readings.
Crew is suited up and their time is limited so this will start very soon (I assume).
Expert commenting: Helicopter will take radiation readings. TEPCO employees on board.
me: Time is of the essence when this starts. Radiation level will rise.
TV: Two more helicopters coming in, each with 7 tons of water to drop.
TV: Current readings: 50 milli-Sieverts
me: I hope the water is boronated. It is a tiny risk if not, but…
TV: Will start by spraying unit 3.
TV: Both Units 3 and 4 have emergency conditions. But unit 3 once experienced a hydrogen explosion which removed roof so helicopter can see inside. Roof of Unit 4 is also broken but not so wide open. So, start with unit 3.
me: Be ready to ske-daddle that helicopter when the drop starts.
Water dropped now
me: No big steam cloud. No immediate response.
9:48 local time: water dropped
me: They are watching for response.
TV: Second helicopter on the way.
TV: 7.5 tons dropped. Not clear how much landed where it needs to be
TV: 47 helicopters on site. (me: wow!)
Wind at Fukushima shown as 14 mph, which is why the water is feathering out. Looks like the sort of bucket they use here for forest fires. Not a whole lot of it hitting the target, but they can reload fast.
Oops, I misunderstood. The helicopter name is “CA-47″. There are only two in operation.
One helicopter is there for readings and observation.
Two helicopters used for water drops.
One drop so far (9:56)
TV: Targeting reactor #3
TV: Spent fuel pools are the target of this operation
TV: Helicopter approaching
TV: Second drop (9:57); Unit 3 again.
TV: SDF helicopters have completed their drops at the command of the government
me: Yes, 4cdave, lots of wind and feathering. I wonder whether they will try a lower drop
The Guardian’s Japan Nukes live blog page has a convenient graphic that shows the “status” of concerns on these six reactor units.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/16/japan-nuclear-crisis-tsunami-aftermath-live
Unit 1 – partial melting of rods in the reactor core
Unit 2 – potential core meltdown feared
Unit 3 – “blast, fire, radiation leak”
Unit 4 – fire, water levels “dropping”. The USG claims the spent fuel pool is dry
Unit 5 – heat rising in spent fuel pool
Unit 6 – heat rising in spent fuel pool
With all eyes on this reactor site, let’s remember the main grid power is out or intermittent elsewhere, too. What’s happening to Japan’s nearly 100 other reactors?
7.5 tons = 1800 gallons. If it all hit the pool, would take 200 trips if it all hits the target (it won’t).
Has anyone heard how many drops they intend to make and how long will it take helicopters to reload more water?
Yep. Pretty much like a pelican, they drop low over a calm enough sea, scoop the water and fly back. A very short round trip at this site, assuming sea conditions remain calm enough.
Right, looks like it dispersed on the second drop.
me: I believe I see some steam coming back after the drop. Would indicate hot surfaces still there.
me: TV is confusing me about which views are live and which are repeats. So my times do not match their times.
TV: Third drop
me: seems to miss entirely.
me: High winds (relatively).
If that’s the same sort of bucket they use for forest fires here, they just hover over the water source (ocean), dunk the bucket, then lift off again. A minute, maybe.
Third drop was on Unit 4 they say, so maybe that was not a miss. It was aimed at Unit 4.
It doesn’t help that the pilot’s hands are shaking…
Thanks.
So far looks like they are hitting #3 a bit more efficiently than #4, but perhaps that is an optical illusion from the camera angle.
Someone with a calculator: How many gallons is 7.5 metric tons of water?
We have a table somewhere that has the capacities of the cooling ponds. Would be interesting to see what is happening on that scale.
me: quite a bit of steam now.
TV: Helicopters must fly over quickly to avoid radiation doses.
TV: We see smoke now.
me: That must be steam.
Now breaking away from live coverage.
With the potential for rapid cook off and hydrogen explosion immediately afterwards, not a time to hover.
Wow, were those plumes of steam? If so, shows you how hot things are.
Thanks — I didn’t see your comment when I asked this question below!
above.
Sorry, been too long with no new updates for me. When the news stops in the middle of a crisis, I become more alarmed than whe it’s flowing….
“…we interrupt our previously scheduales crisis coverage for this important re-run of F-troop…”
The helicopter operations are a bust. They are missing the forest for the trees. The have to hover and drop. They are not doing that because of the radiation exposure but they have that wrong. The background radiation 100 feet off the roof is low. However hovering there will get the helicopter crapped up with contamination and the crew. However the actual exposure will be minimal. The crews should wear protective clothing and respirators or supplied air. Then land in a controled step off area where the crew can remove their protective clothing thus leaving the contamination behind. The copters could be rinsed and the water collected or they could just cover them while in use. Later they will just be low level scrap.
Failure to use those copters to max effect by hovering and dropping right over target is greatly reducing the chances of reducing the exposure of millions of people.
I hope they are wearing lead suits.
Ha! They just said 200 trips. I could be on TV, if I weren’t so homely.
As long as the other sites still have their backup generators + fuel, they will be okay.
If the whole world is watching and waiting why are there no more than two helicopters? You would think that they could use ten at least.
Well done!
I have a face made for radio, as they say.
I guess what I really mean is “Where are all of the world’s resources to help with this?”
That assumes the water striking a hot pool doesn’t immediately cook off, release hydrogen and explode. They don’t seem to know how hot things are, though I’m sure US sats have a pretty good idea. They can spot a match when targeted. But yes, it would seem prudent to try more than one approach to using them.
I call bullshit, rapier51. They have radiation metering on board. I am sure that they are going to refine the technique as they get experience.
This is like the first quarter of the Super Bowl, when the plays are scripted. When they have a feel for what happens, they can adjust.
TV: 11 water cannon trucks on the way.
The first drop onto #3 looked pretty good. What is puzzling is the drops onto #4 came from a different direction, apparently flying into the wind, making the drops almost useless.
Hmmm…
I think the helicopter drops were to see what would happen when water hit the roofs, because now they are bringing people in close. I’ll bet they wanted to see what was what before risking all those policemen with the water cannons.
How hot are the rods by now? You’re hitting them with ocean-temperature water. Warping, cracking, etc.
I think when you’re inventing last ditch, not in the manual ideas to try to avert further catastrophe, you don’t throw massive resources at any one until you see what works. The trick is to devote enough resources to give them a chance to work, and then allocate greater resources for those that do.
I imagine not all the thinkers involved are operating at max efficiency. They’ve been at this a long time, and they know their country and the world is looking over their shoulders.
I’m not buying the TV commentator’s statement that one of the drops was aimed at 4. Looks to me like they just missed.
We are viewing from a great distance, so I really don’t know what I’m talking about.
Radiation levels have now risen to … what did they say? I missed it.
I think I heard them say the helicopters had a lead place installed below. Limited to 40 minutes of operations.
I suppose they are also interested to see if the radiation spikes as soon as water hits.
Because they are screwing up and have been from the moment the generators quit when the worst case scenario became real. Saturday morning they should have had every pump, hose, pipe, water cannon, heavy lift helicopter etc. ect etc. and large crews of people being staged.
On Saturday morning doing some simple ad hoc things could have set up water supply for the fuel pools. Now it’s so freaking hot in 4 at least it is too late.
All of that stuff may not have worked but not to even try. fail.
Each truck will launch 4,000 liters or 4 tons of water.
There are 11 trucks and they will be reloading and returning, etc.
If the radiation is in the range where over exposure is measured in minutes from 100 feet away then that is an incredibly terrible thing.
This reminds me of Luke Skywalker trying to get that torpedo thing into the Death Star.
Water trucks (TIE-wing fighters) will aim for Unit 3.
Ok, I’ll be serious. But this is really last-ditch, sprint for the end-zone stuff.
They are bound too as the contamination goes airborne with the steam.
Yep. And I am hoping against hope that they succeed.
Keep your fingers crossed!
I think it is more the case that they are worried bursts of radiation when the water disturbs the wreckage.
However, I do not really know. It is certainly *possible* that the levels could be lethal at that range, given the materials they are dealing with.
New thread here:
http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2011/03/16/japan-nuke-watch-why-is-unnamed-us-official-lecturing-japan/
Why not talk about the pool in 2 where the massive explosion was?
Wow, this water dump effort looks like it has no chance to succeed. I estimate maybe 10% of the water in each drop hits the building and maybe 10% of that hits the pool. If, indeed, any water hits the pool, it probably flashes immediately into steam. Not good. Not at all.
I doubt the pool in #2 exists any more.
I would imagine that the spent fuel is stored onsite because of the danger of transporting it on roads. That’s one of the objections against the proposed nuclear waste storage area in Nevada, the main problem is getting highly dangerous waste to the storage area.