The follow article by Professor Galbraith was published at the blog, new deal 2.0 and is cross posted here with permission from the author. Updated to include original links.
Hawk Nation: A Guide to the Catastrophic Debt Ceiling Debate
President Obama’s proposed debt ceiling deal is a disastrous solution to an imaginary fiscal crisis, but the pain it causes will be all too real.
News reports hold that President Obama scored a political victory by agreeing to put Medicare and Social Security on the chopping block to achieve a “go-big” $4 trillion deficit reduction. Speaker Boehner had to concede that Republicans won’t vote for any package that includes tax increases – and the deal died. So the gambit worked and the President emerged with a solid image as the alpha deficit hawk.
To which one can only say: how nice for him.
We’re in a summer that only Salvador Dali could paint, a reality so twisted that one almost yearns for the simple verities of the War on Terror or even the invasion of Iraq. Then as now, to be serious one must be a “hawk.” (The dove is a weakling, a loser, and the owl for practical purposes does not exist.) So let’s review some of the strange and mysterious faces of this ugly, vicious bird.
The debt ceiling was first enacted in 1917. Why? The date tells all: we were about to enter the Great War. To fund that effort, the Wilson government needed to issue Liberty Bonds. This was controversial, and the debt ceiling was cover, passed to reassure the rubes that Congress would be “responsible” even while the country went to war. It was, from the beginning, an exercise in bad faith and has remained so every single second to the present day.
Today this bad-faith law is pressed to its absurd extreme, to force massive cuts in public programs as the price of not-reneging on the public debts of the United States. Never mind that to force default on the public obligations of the United States is plainly unconstitutional. Section 4 of the 14th amendment says in simple language that public debts, once duly authorized by law and including pensions, by the way, “shall not be questioned.” The purpose of this language was to foreclose, to put beyond politics, any possibility that the Union would renege on debts and pensions and bounties incurred to win the Civil War. But the application is very general and the courts have ruled that the principle extends to the present day.
What is going on in Congress at this moment already violates that mandate. It is an effort to subvert the authority of the government to meet and therefore to incur obligations of every possible stripe. It is an attack on the concept of government itself – as the “Tea Party” by its very name would no doubt agree. It therefore paints those deficit hawks who are using the debt ceiling to take budget hostages as enemies of the United States Constitution.
The President, though supposedly a constitutional expert and though sworn to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution, will not say this. Instead he appears to treat the Constitution as an optional matter, to which he will not resort, in the hope that by negotiating with the hostage- takers he can reach some reasonable outcome that will preserve everyone’s good name. (The great Harvard legal scholar Laurence Tribe recently argued that the President cannot defy the debt ceiling on his own. That’s a debatable point.) It is as though Lincoln in 1861 faced with the siege of Sumter had sat down with Confederate commissioners to see what could be worked out.
In Washington it appears that this assault on government has a large measure of elite and media support, if not on the crass details or vulgar personalities but because it could conceivably force the parties to do “what they should do anyway” – namely come to a long-term deficit and debt agreement. Such an agreement would cut spending, raise some taxes, put the projected debt-to-GDP ratio on a declining track, and solve the “government’s fiscal crisis.”
What fiscal crisis? The great unasked question in this summer of sound-and-fury is “why?” The United States has many problems at the moment: a high-and-stubborn unemployment rate, a foreclosure catastrophe, a slowing economy that has not recovered and will not recover from the Great Crisis, and the ongoing challenges of infrastructure, energy and climate change. Fiscal crisis? The entire thing is a figment, made up of wise-men’s warnings repeated endlessly and linked to the projections of technicians at the Congressional Budget Office and elsewhere.
The projections, as I’ve written here, are made up of two economically impossible arguments. One is that there will be a big economic rebound, restoring near-full employment by 2013 or so. We’re already off that track, as some of us warned from the beginning. Of course, a recovery would reduce the deficit even if nothing were done. But CBO then recreates the exploding debt by assumptions, which include steady growth and low inflation, but sharply higher health-care costs and much higher short-term interest rates. These lead the projected debt to compound skyward, soon surpassing all previous records in relation to GDP.
Is this possible? No it is not. The Federal Reserve would never raise the short-term interest rate as CBO projects, without a prior increase of inflation, which CBO assumes will not occur. If they did, the economy would collapse! And if they don’t, the debt does not compound out of control. I have presented these simple numbers here. For what it’s worth, if you believe the capital markets signal anything, they signal their disbelief in doomsday forecasts, in the long-term interest rate on US government bonds, every single day.
Is it possible that cutting government is, by some other path, the way to economic recovery?
There are many people who believe fervently in the resilience of the private sector and for whom government is just a burden. Some of those people are pure predators: resource magnates, media magnates, banking magnates. Others have blinded themselves to the role government actually plays in sustaining the advanced networks, human protections and social systems that make up our lives, and imagine that one can go back to the world of subsistence farming, church charity and credit from the corner store. But there were many fewer people in that world, they didn’t do what we do, and they didn’t live nearly so long.
In broad terms, today’s government does four major things:
– it provides for the national defense.
– it purchases goods and services from the private economy for a wide range of public purposes, most of them individually quite small-scale in relation to GDP.
– it regulates a wide range of private-sector activity, for safety, health, environmental and other purposes, including financial stability – or so one should hope.
– it administers Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, as well as other pension and health benefit programs.
On what grounds are any of these functions too large? As an economist concerned with peace and security issues, I do believe we would be better off ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan quickly, that we could dispense with the real resource costs of many foreign bases, aircraft carrier groups, fighter aircraft and submarines and nuclear weapons left over from the Cold War. But these are security judgments, not broad economic ones. In other words, I would not cut a single dime of Pentagon spending that was actually necessary to defend the United States, in order supposedly to lower the interest rate on federal debt.
By the same reasoning, why should we cut transportation, or public health, or environmental protection, or scientific research, or bank inspectors or funds that support the public schools? One can argue these matters program by program – and one should. (I would happily cut ethanol subsidies and oil company tax breaks, for starters.) But there is no economic case for placing an overall limit, and it is obvious that the 500,000 public sector workers – including many teachers, police, fire and park rangers and librarians – who have lost their jobs since 2009 were doing good and useful things that are now missed. If sacking them had been good for the economy, we would be having a stronger recovery than we are.
Finally there are Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Unlike the military or the transportation program, Social Security is not a government purchasing program. It therefore takes nothing directly from the private sector. What it does, is provide insurance: it protects workers from poverty in old age, whether or not their families would otherwise be willing and able to support them. And it taxes all workers, whether or not they would otherwise be burdened with elderly parents, or survivors, or the disabled, to support. Along with Medicare and Medicaid, Social Security is a powerful protector of the entire working population – young and old. It redistributes purchasing power, in loose relation to past earnings, in a way that meets the basic needs of a large number of Americans who would otherwise, in many millions of cases, be destitute or medically bankrupt.
What economic purpose would cutting such programs serve? To do so would again redistribute incomes. Many of the future elderly would be much worse off, and of course many would die younger than they otherwise would. Survivors and the disabled would suffer as well. In return, what would the federal government and the country gain? A release of real resources to the private sector? Social Security does not take real resources from the private sector! Lower interest rates? The idea is absurd, and not just because interest rates are low today. The notion that cutting Social Security would help keep interest rates down is absurd because interest rates are set in a way that has no relationship at all to the scale of Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid.*
This argument has nothing to do with the trope, oft-repeated and perfectly true, that the Social Security system does not contribute to the deficit. It would not matter if it did. The important question is: are benefits too high? Obviously not. How about payroll taxes – are they too low? There is no case for that either. One of the very few bright spots in recent policy was the decision to reduce payroll taxes on employees, temporarily, while leaving Social Security benefits alone.
If you wanted to build on that, the right steps would be to lower – not raise – the Social Security early retirement age, permitting for a few years older workers to exit the labor force permanently on better terms than are available to them today. This together with a lower age of access to Medicare would work quickly to rebalance the labor force, reducing unemployment and futile job search among older workers while increasing job openings for the young. It is the application of plain common sense. And unlike all the pressures to enact long-term cuts in these programs, it would help solve one of today’s important problems right away.
Instead of this, what do we have, from a President who claims to be a member of the Democratic Party? First, there is the claim that we face a fiscal crisis, which is a big untruth. Second, a concession in principle that we should deal with that crisis by enacting massive cuts in public services on one hand and in vital social insurance programs on the other. This is an arbitrary cruelty. Third, a refusal to stand on the strong ground of the Constitution, against those whose open and declared purpose is tear that document and the public credit to shreds.
In the Daily Beast on Sunday, Howard Kurtz wrote in optimistic terms of the prospects for a deficit bargain: “But away from the cameras, even sharp-tongued politicians recognize the imperative of avoiding the fate of Greece. It is a sign of the times that the Kabuki players of Washington may take a bow simply for averting catastrophe.”
Kurtz did not say that the big Kabuki here was his own notion that somehow the United States might face the fate of Greece – a small and overmatched member of a currency zone it cannot control. He did not say that the catastrophe he fears – a default on US government obligations – was entirely the product of treacherous politics, abetted by an irresolute President who seems not to grasp the danger of allowing the Constitution to fail.
And he did not say, that the deal he would applaud, with cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and all the legitimate and necessary functions of government — would be for millions of Americans the catastrophe itself.
* Short-term rates are whatever the Federal Open Market Committee dictates they should be. And if the Treasury wants to pay low interest rates on the debt, it can always issue short-term debt only — or it can issue long bonds and the Federal Reserve can buy them back, maintaining the structure of interest rates it prefers. There is no market default risk, no threat to “solvency” from a “loss of confidence” – nothing the private sector can do to make the US government pay more than it wants do – a point that should be obvious from the fact that the Federal Reserve’s interest rate decisions are never overruled by the market. The only way the United States government can default is if it makes a political decision to do so – which is what the debt-ceiling hostage-takers threaten and what the Constitution forbids.
James K. Galbraith is a deficit owl. He is the author of The Predator State: How Conservatives Abandoned the Free Market and Why Liberals Should Too. He teaches at The University of Texas at Austin.



36 Comments

The voice of sanity!
I read this Scarecrow. Very good. And rec’d.
Here’s what I don’t get. The Treasury doesn’t have to borrow money to get money. It can issue checks that the Fed would honor.
The money in our society is almost all created by bank lending. Bank lending is down so there isn’t as much money as there might be. Therefore, the issuance of checks won’t be a problem.
The congress has already authorized the spending. They can’t complain about the means chosen by the executive branch to pay the costs of the matters they have authorized.
Why exactly is there a problem?
scarecrow, if you have the chance to delete the bit, “Join us at the Hamptons Institute July 15-17 to hear distinguished speakers take on today’s most pressing issues!” that would be great — it’s an RI ad and not part of galbraith’s post.
… thanks for reposting this. so much good stuff!
i particularly like the note about interest rates: “nothing the private sector can do to make the US government pay more than it wants do – a point that should be obvious from the fact that the Federal Reserve’s interest rate decisions are never overruled by the market” because it seems to me that this is a key point that’s missed in much of what strikes me as nonsensical thinking about deficits (see krugman).
Read Jamie Galbraith’s “The Predator State”. He is the equal of his father whose “The Great Crash” is classic. He has a lot of common sense.
“Never mind that to force default on the public obligations of the United States is plainly unconstitutional. Section 4 of the 14th amendment says in simple language that public debts, once duly authorized by law and including pensions, by the way, “shall not be questioned.”
Is any group planning to bring suit against the Obama administration if they fail to send out the social security, disability and veterans checks?
That said, there are other solutions as Sellse and masaccio have mentioned. We the people should control our money system notbbankers. Time to put the Fed under Treasury and end borrowing from private bankers
Amazing, the ugly Wilson legacies that remain with us today, because a majority of the Congress refused to stand up to an imperious President then, as now. The Senate’s Rule XXII “cloture motion” (which is now being routinely abused in a way never contemplated by its authors) also first came into being in 1917, at the behest of Woodrow Wilson and his minions during a special session of Congress, shortly after a temporarily-successful filibuster of a bill that would have been the means for an undeclared U.S. entry into World War I.
That certainly doesn’t seem to be the understanding of the experienced Senate Budget Committee Chairman, Kent Conrad of North Dakota (a Democrat who is not seeking re-election), in addition to Paul Krugman, as selise indicates above.
As I noted here, Conrad finally unveiled a public summary of his private plan for the federal budget Monday afternoon, which he has apparently refused to formally introduce to his committee or to the Senate as a concurrent budget resolution (which needs no signature from the President, and may not be filibustered), as required by law. Here’s what Senator Conrad said on the Senate floor Monday about the threat of higher interest rates:
With regard to the 14th Amendment question, in this case I agree with Laurence Tribe and Jack Balkin/Jonathan Adler (more links here at Volokh.com, which allows comments on its posts, unlike Balkin) that the claimed 14th Amendment “solution” to the Congress failing to do its job on the debt ceiling issue (with or without the involvement of the President) is anything but.
You’re damn right that “one should” Mr. Galbraith. But, as ought to be well-known from coast to coast by now, our Senate refuses to do just that, in public, under regular order, as required by law – because both Parties (as opposed to the American people, and probably many Members of Congress) clearly have a self-interest in preventing public, democratic debate and amendment “program by program.” Party leadership – unchallenged by our elected representatives, who are in turn unchallenged by us (or the media) on their abdication of duty – instead of letting the Congress collectively work its will in search of wise (“owl”-like, if you will) solutions, prefers to work unmolested in secrecy, with only a select few voices (who’ve no doubt assured themselves that they hold a monopoly on wisdom) represented “at the table.”
Thus we have a Senate whose infrastructure and mechanisms are deliberately not being utilized by the majority Party on this vital national issue. So no fair legislative process or procedure, or established rules govern the private, ad hoc “negotiations” being conducted by the Executive Branch in superficial Party vs. Party terms, instead of substantive House vs. Senate terms, where these decisions belong.
Apparently the Senate Democrats, Conrad included, are afraid to assert themselves – no doubt because the President has privately told them he doesn’t want them to – in their rightful role, with the House, as authors of a budget for the federal government, on which no presidential signature is needed. If that work was under way in serious, substantive earnest in Congress, with ideas from participants on all sides welcome, I believe that a debt ceiling increase would be following quickly and easily in its wake.
But meanwhile, in the irresponsible absence of Congressional (as opposed to limited Party) involvement in the creation of a federal budget, the ceaseless Party vs. Party trench warfare rhetoric from both sides (in and out of Congress), as amplified by the media, does nothing to advance this debate, in my opinion. Only when the debate is focused on details like those helpfully outlined in this diary, and our representatives begin to act to democratically debate and amend and vote on specific, binding measures introduced in the only federal institution designed for that purpose – particularly in the Senate, as has already been done, in an unfortunate, one-sided way, in the House – will meaningful, constructive headway be possible.
masaccio, the Treasury is forbidden from issuing checks or marking up accounts if this would result in an overdraft of its Treasury General Account at the Fed. The Fed would not honor such checks. The Treasury normally acquires the capability to deficit spend appropriations by first issuing debt before the deficit spending is done. In fact Congress mandates such debt issuance, which is why I’ve charged in the past that the very existence of the National Debt is Congress’s fault.
As you know the debt limit set by Congress is currently preventing the Treasury from selling more [debt] so that it can spend appropriations. So, this is “why exactly there is a problem.” Treasury can’t issue more debt, so it can’t spend what was mandated by Congress.
There is an easy solution, which the Administration will not recognize and the mainstream press will not write about. That solution is jumbo coin seigniorage. A number of us have written about that at FDL by now. Beowulf, Wigwam, Mike Diaz, Scott Fullwiler, and myself. Here’s my latest:
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2011/07/11/coin-seigniorage-the-debt-limit-and-the-presidents-duty/
Here’s wigwam’s post: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/27/989304/-How-to-Knock-Two-Trillion-Dollars-Off-the-National-Debt,-Ending-the-Debt-Limit-Crisis?via=history
and here’s Scott’s
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2011/07/09/scott-fullwiler-qe3-treasury-style%e2%80%94go-around-not-over-the-debt-ceiling-limit/
which has also received very good discussion at Cullen Roche’s site: http://pragcap.com/qe3-treasury-style-go-around-not-over-the-debt-ceiling-limit/comment-page-1#comment-63653
and also a fair amount at Yves Smith’s place: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/07/scott-fullwiller-qe3-treasury-style%e2%80%94go-around-not-over-the-debt-ceiling-limit.html
There was also a very detailed consideration of an earlier post of mine featuring beowulf’s research at Warren Mosler’s site here: http://moslereconomics.com/2011/01/20/joe-firestone-post-on-sidestepping-the-debt-ceiling-issue-with-coin-seigniorage/
In short, there’s only a problem for people who won’t see or don’t want a solution.
Long past time. The banking system should be nationalized.
What would they sue for? Damages? A remedy that he seek a constitutional ruling from the SC? Or the remedy that the US Mint issue Jumbo coins and deposit them in its account at the Fed?
Powwow does identify a very serious problem underlying the fix we’re in. However:
It may not be either Conrad’s or Krugman’s view but it is true. See for example, Scott Fullwiler’s paper here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1722986 Conrad’s deficit hawk views, in fact, are right out of Peter Peterson’s play book. I’ve been arguing against views like his in these pages since I began blogging here in the late Spring of 2009.
Excellent post.
pretty sure your first post against deficit hawkism was in oct, 2009. i remember because it was right after i recommended mosler’s book to you, which you read right away. we all owe mosler (and colleagues) a great deal: first for their work in understanding these matters and second for their efforts in teaching the members of the public like us.
oops no edit…
it’s not like this material is intuitive (just the opposite) or something the public (or congress) should be able to understand on their own.
here’s a quote from yves at naked capitalism suggesting that in general the more someone knows mainstream economics, the more difficult they may find these ideas:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/08/guest-post-modern-monetary-theory-—-a-primer-on-the-operational-realities-of-the-monetary-system.html#comment-157372
second your recommendation re galbraith’s the predator state — really fantastic and influenced me a lot…. in fact, think i should read it again now.
btw, here’s the link to the predator state fdl book salon with galbraith and hosted by dean baker.
off topic (although not entirely)….
powwow, i saw the reply you left on randy wray’s post but when i typed in a response, and hit the “submit” button the comments were closed! if scarecrow doesn’t mind, i’ll wait for a day and then reply here (i have a draft of my now lost comment).
Ah, meant to do that and forgot. Will do.
I have updated the post to include Professor Galbraith’s original links.
notice experts like Pro Galbraith and those of his ilk are not allowed on the mainstream media? I nearly threw up last night as Charlie Rose has Summers (not Suzanne) but Larry on his show “explaining”the debt issue…also if you watch the CBS “interview” with Obama you will see a set up for Obama to try and scare people about the debt…look at Obama’s eyes light up when he claims he could not be sure there would be enough money to pay SS checks!!!!!! What an ass! Ok Obama I am scared I will not get my check so go ahead and cut SS Medicare and Medicaid…what a SOB!!
We have a fiscal crisis as long as a majority of the Congress believes that taxes cannot be raised on the wealthiest 1%.
Economists sometimes drive me crazy by their inability to incorporate real-world facts into their models. As I argued on Noahpinion (and we’ll see how how/if this is answered), if raising taxes is impossible, and if the rights of creditors are sacrosanct, economic models may function differently than liberal economists think.
missing link:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/24/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-james-k-galbraith-the-predator-state-how-conservatives-abandoned-the-free-market-and-why-liberals-should-too/
Selise, thanks very much for the link. The original article to which Yves is responding is, I think, very important. As I commented below, the real world operates in ways that many economists do not incorporate into their models. That means that most economic arguments one hears are flawed.
This most recently occurred in a debate on an assertion (an alleged assertion, I should say; I haven’t seen the original) by Dean Baker that dollar strength drives trades deficits, so all we need to do to lower deficits is to let the dollar drop. But a simple look at the CA deficit vs. the dollar suggests that the correlation is somewhere in the vicinity of 0.2 (I found an NBER paper that asserted that it was more like 0.36, but that was by selecting the lag period for best fit and other assumptions).
So, the majority of the CA deficit is not driven by the factor that all economists cite first. As I commented, we can lower the CA deficit by reducing our oil imports and producing stuff people want to buy, and we can do that in a far more predictable manner than by collapsing the currency. But that’s what comes from living in the real world, and understanding that exchange rate fluctuations drive importers and also exporters crazy, distort investment decisions, and reduce the standard of living of the country whose currency is falling.
Economics is wonderful as a conceptual tool. But as long as most economic theorists are academics, it may not be all that useful.
Again, thanks for the link.
Wray promised a new post to respond to the comments raised by ‘pups. Not yet, though he has one up at Economonitor.
Damages are for lawsuits, What you want is a remedy (that is, an equitable action).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_%28law%29
Since 31 USC 321(a)(3) gives the Secretary no discretion in the matter (“The Secretary of the Treasury shall…issue warrants for money drawn on the Treasury consistent with appropriations), he can compelled to perform this ministerial duty by writ of mandamus.
The prayer is for a writ of mandamus against Hon. William Windom, Secretary of the Treasury, commanding him to deliver or cause to be delivered to the relator the said draft, or show cause at an early date, and that such further order may be made in the premises as law and justice may require, or show cause, etc.
http://supreme.justia.com/us/137/636/case.html
I suppose he could be compelled also to mint Jumbo coins in the same equitable action to compel him to “issue warrants for money drawn on Treasury consistent with appropriations”. After all the very next clause reads…
“(4) mint coins, engrave and print currency and security documents, and refine and assay bullion, and may strike medals;”
:o)
If Warren were running a multi-level marketing scheme (MLMMT?), then I’d certainly be in your downline as well. :o)
Right, just as their economic models typically assume full employment and balanced trade. The one and only time we’ve hit 1978 full employment act’s 4.0% unemployment target was in 2000. As for the trade deficit, oh boy, this graph tells the tale.
http://recession.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/TradeDeficitGDP.jpg
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I was thinking of an action requiring specific performance – send out the checks – in that debts duly authorized by law “shall not be questioned”.
lol! beowulf, i have no doubt you would have found warren et al. on your own.
the point i was trying to make is that lets, me and others here are making arguments based on our prior exposure to (and persuasion by) the ideas/work of warren and colleagues. as far as i know, none of us thought this stuff up on our own (with the exception of your fabulous idea that the treasury could/should mint a trillion dollar platinum coin). so, anyone really interested in learning more can’t do better than start reading the actual experts.
as for “MLMMT downlines” (that’s hilarious, btw) and appropriate for this thread, i’m certainly in galbraith’s (a very tangled thread that probably began with his 2009 AEA talk).
i thought he was just referring to returning to the comments thread (which is sadly now closed).
CharlesII @ July 13th, 2011 at 9:40 am,
i’d love to see a discussion with the experts on what drives the CA. i kinda thought it was a combination of the dollar’s status as global reserve currency (and the savings desire of dollar based financial assets by the rest of the world) with the level of demand from the USA.
p.s. re “Economics is wonderful as a conceptual tool. But as long as most economic theorists are academics, it may not be all that useful.” james galbraith, scott fullwiler, randy wray, bill mitchell, etc are also academics (maybe it depends on which academics?).
Thanks for reminding me of my FDL history. You’re right, of course. I became confused because I had blogged against deficit hawk points of view like Conrad’s in the Spring of 2009 on my own site. Here are my pre-MMT links.
http://kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving/archives/a-party-to-beggar-us-part-one/
http://kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving/archives/a-party-to-beggar-us-part-two/
http://kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving/archives/a-party-to-beggar-us-part-three/
http://kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving/archives/%E2%80%9Cin-the-name-of-god-go%E2%80%9D/#more-127
http://kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving/archives/we-didnt-misread-we-had-incomplete-information/#more-222
My first blog here at FDL on deficits is here: http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2009/10/26/deficit-hawkism-and-national-suicide-part-one/ The post itself doesn’t reflect any knowledge of MMT. I think you introduced me to it your comments on this post.
The second one is here:
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2009/11/06/deficit-hawkism-and-national-suicide-part-two/
It’s the first post of mine to link to MMT work, other than Jamie Galbraith’s (which I never identified as MMT). It was Warren Mosler’s 7 Deadly Innocent Frauds which got me started at your suggestion and which was my gateway to the MMT perspective. I agree that we all owe Warren, Bill, Randy, and later others that we met or correspond with through them
nope. it was a couple weeks earlier:
http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2009/10/14/deficit-neutrality-and-bull-shit/#comment-85469
i was impressed because you read mosler’s book right away.
anyway, the main point i was trying to make, as i wrote above in reply to beowulf, “is that lets, me and others here are making arguments based on our prior exposure to (and persuasion by) the ideas/work of warren and colleagues. as far as i know, none of us thought this stuff up on our own…”
it’s amazing to me how the ideas of a very few people can spread beyond their own circles (and conversely when ideas don’t spread). i’m interested in social movements and related, which may be why i pay attention to this kind of thing. also it was right around the same time when, iirc within about a week of each other, marshall, rob and tom all recommended i read randy’s book (i’d been struggling to see how the horizontal and vertical concepts might fit together) and that made a VERY big impact on me (actually blew my mind).