As we watch the various markets react to recent events, it’s essential we keep our heads straight on some basics, because the media, and particularly the “news” reporters and editors of the New York Times, have got almost everything backwards.
You can ignore almost everything you’re hearing from Washington politicians, including the White House, and Beltway media. Here’s what knowledgeable economists are telling us.
1. The US government is not about to default on its debts. A nation with it’s own currency and whose debts are all in its own currency cannot be forced to default unless crazy people force it to default. The US can always print or mint more dollars to pay off debts denominated in dollars. S&P ignored this fact. The only way the US can be forced to default is if the government is taken over by crazy people. Unfortunately, there are a lot of them, but S&P mumbled when it should have clearly called out the crazies. But S&P and the non-crazies have also bought (or are trying to sell) other economic snake oil.
2. The markets do not believe in the S&P fairy tale that the US is in danger of defaulting on its debts. The markets are saying just the opposite. Forget the stock market; it’s the bond markets that matter here. In those markets, bond prices are rising and interest rates are falling to very low levels. That tells us investors all over the world think US Treasury bonds are safe, so they are buying more bonds, not selling them. S&P’s analysis is gibberish.
3. The stock market is signaling the economy is in trouble; it’s not saying we have a debt crisis. [See Krugman links here] The Commerce Department revisions to GDP signaled that the US economy was falling into a depression in 2008 and only barely escaped in 2009, after the stimulus and Federal Reserve actions started to kick in. The recent jobs numbers tell us unemployment is not likely improve much for several years, which leaves parts of the economy in a near depression. The debt debates are telling markets there’s no rational discussion in Washington about how to boost the economy. Given that and more, it makes sense for stocks to be tanking.
4. The debt reduction hysteria is making the economy worse and is self-defeating. The debt hysteria is the economic snake oil everyone from the President and his advisers to Pete Peterson and Simpson-Bowles to the Tea Party are selling. With the economy still on the edge of recession, and parts in near depression, the only thing keeping the economy afloat is federal spending. It may need that support for years, because the recession was much deeper than everyone thought. But if federal spending declines, as the debt hysterics are demanding, and state/local government spending continues to tank, then GDP must fall. It’s just math. As the economy declines, there will be less collected in taxes, and more paid out in safety net spending — unless a cruel nation slashes that too — so the net result could be higher deficits, or at least less debt reduction than they expected.
5. Today’s consumers can’t revive the economy by spending more, because they’re still recovering from losing $6-7 trillion in housing wealth. Housing prices pumped up during the bubble are still falling (why hasn’t Greenspan been banished?). And lately, the private sector has lost trillions more in 401k etc, savings as stocks crash due to expectations of a continuing weak economy. Only the federal government can raise spending to boost the economy.
6. Enhanced trade can’t revive the economy either, because other nations are also struggling. We’re running huge trade deficits, buying more from others than we sell to others. But our trading partners are also struggling to keep their economies from declining, and they’re making it worse with their own austerity. Many of Europe’s banks are essentially insolvent from the 2008 burst, and covering for them has pushed weaker governments towards insolvency. We’d like to keep the value of our dollar cheaper, to allow us to export more. But other countries are also trying to keep the value of their currencies lower so that they sell more and buy less; if everyone does that, they cancel each other out.
7. All this means federal deficits are unavoidable, as long as the private sector is also not spending more. If the Feds spends less, the accounting identity from Econ 101 tells us the private sector would tank. Slashing government spending could cause a another severe recession or depression.
8. The S&P credit rating rationale is based on a bogus economic view. There is no accepted theory that says the debt to GDP ratio must be below some percentage, such as 75 percent, to be “sustainable” or conducive to growth. Yet S&P and Moody’s are both saying that Congress must achieve a $4 trillion down payment to debt reduction over 10 years in order to keep the ratio from rising about this arbitrary 75 percent. Even if the average ratio for some economists’ preferred outcomes in other countries was 75 percent, that does not mean that number is the correct benchmark for any single country, let alone the US now. Every country is different, and there is no reason to believe the US cannot handle debt to GDP ratios much higher than some historic international average and still be “sustainable” or conducive to growth.
9. The financial industry has a strong incentive to create debt hysteria. Severe government budget cutting creates ample opportunities to force state and local governments to privatize public assets and to create conditions requiring the social safety net to become privatized. But the financial sector can gather wealth even in a downturn, because, they’ve learned, government will back stop them. S&P is paid by the financial sector. And then there’s S&P’s role in helping the financial sector pull off massive fraud. Any Democrat, such as my millionaire Senator, John Kerry, who engages in debt hysteria, should be shamed and pushed out of office.
10. President Obama and his advisers own this mess. It was the President who insisted that we needed to slash the debt by $4 trillion over ten years, who said that was a precondition for “sustainability” and getting our fiscal house in order. He told the nation we can’t even have a useful conversation about growing the economy or creating jobs until we did that. All his advisers echoed him. [Even DeLong would replace the entire team, but Summers for Fed Chief? You were also for Bernanke, Prof.]
It was all gibberish. But when S&P and Moody’s use the $4 trillion trigger and no one says, “huh?”, it’s because the White House validated that completely arbitrary number. Thus S&P’s $2 trillion “error” may reveal they’re incompetent and pursuing their own ideological agenda, but its still true that the debt limit bill got just over $2 trillion and left us $2 trillion short of the arbitrary $4 trillion. It’s all gibberish, but it’s the White House’s gibberish. Worse, it’s forced every timid Democrat, including the entire leadership and millionaires like John Kerry,” to echo the same gibberish. Shame on them all.



56 Comments

“Any Democrat, such as my Senator, John Kerry, who engages in debt hysteria, should be shamed and pushed out of office.”
Ain’t in the truth; and THAT’s how we effin’ got *here* too.
Washington idiots.
“6. Enhanced trade can’t revive the economy either because other nations are also struggling. We’re running huge trade deficits, buying more from others than we sell to others. But our trading partners are also struggling to keep their economies from declining, and they’re making it worse with their own austerity. Many of Europe’s banks are essentially insolvent from the 2008 burst, and covering for them has push weaker governments towards insolvency. We’d like to keep the value of our dollar cheaper, to allow us to export more. But other countries are also trying to keep the value of their currencies lower so that they sell more and buy less; if everyone does that, they cancel each other out.”
Yep – we are in a Keynesian liquidity trap where lower interest rates will not stir activity because folks expect “adverse events” – deflation, insufficient aggregate demand, political gridlock – which in turn make folks unwilling to invest. Sounds a lot like responses to similar situations in the past that countries have done before.
Austerity is the cross of gold straight jacket that blesses those with money already – only we are putting on that straight jacket with no gold standard in place pushes us, but then the EU is doing the same but at least they have the excuse that the common currency with no common taxing/spending/fiscal policy is the equivalent of a cross of gold (William Jennings Bryan 1896 speech – all is same old- same old).
Thanks, Scarecrow, for cutting through all of the bullshit of this Cecil B. DeMille-style extravagant bullshit production by Obama on behalf of his uber rich overlords.
Recommended.
“Cross of gold” and fundamentalist crazies – we’re partying like it’s 1896. I don’t wanna live through the last century again.
they are just continuing to grease the wheels for massive cuts to all the programs the average american depends on like SS and medicare and education etc.
its all propaganda to keep the people thinking that only the war budget needs to be kept in tact.
Is there no one out there who understands and can speak truth to power?
And plus, per your #4, the whole conversation is hopelessly and tragically fixed on exactly the wrong, self-defeating subject. They will continue to fight over the deficit, the public will continue to be confused, especially low-information liberals, and nobody will be able to do anything about it. Nothing will get done, except bad things.
It’s hard to believe that the ruling class would cause so much pain and destruction merely to get hold of all that belongs to the people and turn the people into serfs. But apparently that is the goal.
Obama is much worse then even Palin would have been. Palin would have been ineffectual. At least liberals would have resisted her.
S&P used their Supreme Court sanctioned `freedom of speech’ to cry fire
in a theater that not only isn’t burning down, but is quickly flooding.
Got to agree with you about Obama. In my long life I have been wrong about a lot of things, but few of them were as wrong as my assessment of Obama. When Edwards dropped out of the race I was hesitant between Clinton and him. He had the advantage of obscurity; Clinton was surrounded by hacks, and he was an inspirational speaker, which seemed like a good idea given that the US economy was headed for a crash. Big mistake. Even Hilary would have done a better job than he’s job. At least she was never under any illusion that being nice to Thugs would work out. Of course, she was as beholden to Big Money as he is, so the outcome might not have been radically different. But at this point, even small differences seem better than what we’ve got. That man has got to go.
The rabid elephant in the room is The Magnificent Mindless ‘Merican Murder Machine and it sucking in over half the expenditures and burning half the oil we consume each day.
Military madman are spoiling our country trying to defend it in their very profitable way, revolving door and all that.
S&P Beers said that “printing money” won’t solve the credit problem. Well, at least the idiot understands we can do that.
What does anyone expect? It’s the NYTimes. The Old Gray Lady has morphed into the Old Gray Hag.
We would have been better off with Edwards, I don’t approve of his private life or misuse of campaign funds, but since when has who someone slept with had anything to do with how well (or ill) they governed?
… straight jacket …
Just a language quibble. It’s strait jacket – one that limits or constrains you. Strait, as in “straitened means,” “Bering Strait,” etc.
I wish Hank Paulson’s hyperventilation act hadn’t succeeded
in giving our savings to propping up the parties in the game
described (ALLEGEDLY–AND ANY REFLECTIONS THEREON ONLY
REFLECT MY OWN SUPPOSITION, OPINION) by Matt Taibbi (bets against credit default insurance, with the underlying business a pile of crap.)
Really, that’s no different from you get all the poverty, we get all the redounding resources. which is no different from a health insurance cartel saying you get any health risk whatsoever, and even though the medically bankrupt are going to the county hospital, their costs passed to us and on to you, we simply have carved out your sucker-give–a guaranteed 30% admin cost BUILT INTO an 80% medical loss ratio (MLR.)
Holygenes is known as being a former atheist with a moral bent.
I come from a cluster of mixed families.
I wasn’t born yesterday. Hank Paulson (also Tim Geithner:) Not Jewish.
Don’t worry.
The billionaires know something you don’t.
Half of them are process-self-generated players of two sides of understanding,
which immediately goes zen, except to me zen and Western religion
are the ***SAME***
FOR EVERY BUYER AT THE TOP (means much less today, with
so much “”REVERSE”" product available) THERE IS A SELLER.
The billionaires are enjoying buying for pennies on the dollar after
shafting you.
However, they have foresaken a CONVEYED message, and, will
possibly go to hell, more likely will give up forever.
Thanks. Never knew that.
BTW –
Dow down 630 points today, sixth largest drop in history.
As they used to say, stay turned for more tomorrow.
And yet more polls today say the public thinks the problem that demands attention is the economy and jobs, not deficit or debt. you’d think self preservations would kick in for politicians, but there’s no on calling them out from this side of the black hole.
While I agree with most of the post, I see it also as a way to horse things around to end up agreeing with your world view.
I agree things are not as bad as they seem.
They also weren’t as bad, economy wise, in 2008 either. What happened then was that people were expecting the banking crisis–which was a crisis–to be solved with the bail out. THEN, the House did not pass the bailout. THAT changed the psychology of the situation entirely. People then began to panic. In addition, to get it TO pass, the politicians had to invoke the “catastrophe” line, which paniced people further.
With that panic, business froze nearly all their buying–I saw it stop dead in the tracks. THAT got everyone else to pull back, “What’s going to happen?” etc.
Had the TARP passed first time, the economy would not have been going gangbusters, but, in people’s minds, the problem would have been contained with no need to panic. Maybe a mild recession would have ensued.
The lesson really is what an old economics professor once told my class–”You would do better to study psychology to understand the economic markets than economics.” All the excessive talk of castastrophe regarding the debt (from one side) along with panic on the debt (from the other side) has the panic button going again.
Sad part is they’re better than most. See Washington Post. But their Econ news reporting has been egregious, as though they don’t read their own Econ columnists, who seem to agree with most of these points.
Nice layout of the issues before us that the press is spinning. This is Dissater Capitalism on steroids. Knut says Obama must go,,,can’t be soon enough he is pulling triggers fast as he can manufacture them. It is Like Henry Paulsen is the President and Obama is the yes man. Number 9 calls the inside heist S&P is promulgating.
Thank you, thank you for this post, Scarecrow! I kept hearing the MSM voices getting higher and screechier by the hour today and kept thinking, ” oh no, they are trying to skew this because the downgrade doesn’t matter, doesn’t mean anything and it is not what the Dow is reacting to! WTF”. So I feel that my reaction was correct, and I very much appreciate your point of view.
very well said.
i read robert pear’s article and thought “does this guy know enough about economics to write on a topic this important, or was he just picked from a pool of reporters that was handy?”
“did the headline writers for pear’s article consider only what would sell a pear off a newsstand?”
apparently pear is a “debt crisis” specialist, cf:
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/p/robert_pear/index.html
You’d really *think* somebody would have started to understand these dynamics by now. Including SOMEBODY in the White House.
And maybe they should rethink their plans. NOW! Not over the coming weeks. Not for the election. Now, fools. Now.
Hopeless.
Yup. CNN people are confused and scared.
And … oh, look … London is burning!!
i got a little money and some stocks i’d love to buy that have been too expensive.
i’m not worryin’; just lookin’ for opportunity.
e.g., wapoop’s zombie economist robert samuelson, featured prominently today with this truly inane piece of commentary:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-welfare-state-wins-this-budget-war/2011/08/07/gIQA4fuE1I_story.html?hpid=z3
Well said, scarecrow. Thank you.
I thnk what’s happening is that the debt story got so much attention, the editors started throwing more and more people at it, but they weren’t all versed in the Econ stuff. And the editors arent economists. They just seem to be reflecting fairly common views, mostly myths.
The WaPo has an agenda, to cut entitlements and government spending, regardless of facts. That’s why Dean Baker has to spend lots of time debunking them. But lately, the focus on the economy has exposed weak reporting at the Times, which did not seem, before, to have this agenda.
That was the point I kept trying to make to people during the Lewinsky mess. Not that Clinton was great, but he did some things much better than Obama.
To be honest, I think you missed the biggest “miss” by the MSM today.
The U.S. was downgraded, but the yield on Ten Year Treasuries actually declined 22 basis points from 2.56% to 2.34%. We must be the first country to be downgraded on debt and have our debt yields decline the next trading day! In other words, the value of our debt is a lot higher today than it was on Friday (yields are inverse to price with bonds).
Europe is in much worse shape. Their banking system is close to locking up. That’s a lot of the big reason for the drop, but all we hear is downgrade, downgrade, downgrade.
I am as shocked as you are that the White House seems very much “out of the loop”.
If they would just watch “MTP” and “This Week”, and catch the “Ed Show” once in a while, they’s be much better informed than they are now.
Yes. That point is what Point 2 and the Krugman link refer to.
curlydan wrote: Europe is in much worse shape. Their banking system is close to locking up. That’s a lot of the big reason for the drop, but all we hear is downgrade, downgrade, downgrade.
———–
I think we should blame this on Greece. I never liked those damn Gyros anyway. Most of the rest of their food sucks too. Look at all the messes Europe has draggged us into. Who has a copy of the “Monroe Doctrine”????
If there is, you can be damned sure that no one will give them airtime or any media coverage.
5. Today’s consumers can’t revive the economy by spending more, because they’re still recovering from losing $6-7 trillion in housing wealth. Housing prices pumped up during the bubble are still falling (why hasn’t Greenspan been banished?). And lately, the private sector has lost trillions more in 401k etc, savings as stocks crash due to expectations of a continuing weak economy. Only the federal government can raise spending to boost the economy.
When a patient is weak and hemorrhaging, the first thing a doctor will do is stop the hemorrhaging and then will start replenishing the fluids. Our economy is hemorrhaging big time! Over 90% of the stuff we buy is manufactured in China. Even the stuff that is alleged to be made on our soil is often only packaged from bulk import, or assembled from imported components and sub-assemblies (even defense hardware!). Essentially all of the trade agreements we have signed are a lose-lose proposition, since for every dollar we import, we export only around 30 cents and, to add insult to injury, much of that revenue is never repatriated. Even Bush tax cut (60% of the deficit) aside, deficit is a revenue problem because Chinese workers who make our stuff do not pay our taxes, and our parasitic corporations (not China) who use cheap overseas labor to boost their profits are bleeding our economy dry. So, when we throw money at our economy, its no surprise that China’s economy roars to life and our standard-of-living ratchets down few more notches. Yet the amazing this is that no one, main stream economists included, mentions this as the root cause of our economic (and social) decline.
“… [this economic condition] has been brought about by policies which the majority of economists recommended and even urged governments to pursue. We have indeed at the moment little cause for pride: as a profession we have made a mess of things.”
– Friedrich August von Hayek, Nobel Speech 1974
… and in 1980s …and 2000 …and again in 2008… Well, so much for economists being “versed in the Econ stuff.”
It’s the economy stupid(NYT). Even the commodities are taking a Steve Brody.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/commodities/default.stm
Just ask yourself, where is the money from those sold stocks going? Nouriel Roubini says its Treasuries.
Does that speak of a likely default?
Thanks, Scarecrow. I can’t prove this, but I think S & P, which also downgraded Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, BTW, is throwing a temper tantrum. Their financial backers had bet on Obama being able to let them loot Social Security right now, and he failed them. Remember it was everyone from Obama himself to Geithner to Biden to Boehner screeching that a ratings downgrade would be “catastrophic” and “unacceptable.”
Now Obama and Geithner are saying it doesn’t matter, that America is a “Triple-A country.”
What a load of crap. Capitalist investors are seeing the obvious: neither this government nor the private sector is going to do anything to stimulate demand, wages and salaries and spending power by the American consumer will continue to drop, therefore, eventually corporate profits should drop as well. They are simply cutting their losses.
Well, more accurately, a lot of them are no longer willing to bet on the bubbles and are taking what they have already stolen and are heading home.
nah, it was the nytimes that missed the story, and it missed big time(s).
tomorrow this should be headline news in every news outlet in the country. the news business is supposed to inform us, not pander to us.
will your important point be prominent in tomorrow’s news cycle, thereby helping brake this plunge?
wanna make some easy money? i’ll give you real good odds :)
Krugman says that he and Rogoff will both be on NewsHour in a few minutes. I wonder whether Rogoff’s magic maximum debt load will come up … ;>
(He and his colleague C. Reinhart are the ones who have said that countries with loads above 75 or 80 percent or whatever of their gdp do not grow. The U.S. currently is at about 92 percent, with a recorded high over 120 percent during WWII.)
The tantrum theory is far from the most outrageous thing I’ve heard lately. Far.
Nope and it’s not going to commodities either. So it has to be treasuries or I need to get the mattress concession.
The PBS session with Rogoff, Krugman and a guy from JPMorgan was fairly good. Rogoff did not bring up his debt ratio study, and Krugman did not challenge the concern from the JP Morgan guy that the ratio was projected to go over 80%. But on most other stuff, they agreed, including the need for more spending now. Rogoff wants more from the Fed to raise inflation; Krugman also wants more from them and from fiscal expansion. all agreed there’s not grownups — no leaders stepping up to explain this. Krugman noted Obama didn’t say what needed to be said today.
“The only way the US can be forced to default is if the government is taken over by crazy people. Unfortunately, there are a lot of them, but S&P mumbled when it should have clearly called out the crazies. But S&P and the non-crazies have also bought (or are trying to sell) other economic snake oil.”
S&P did say something:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail?entry_id=94858#ixzz1UNKMCpbJ
“S&P Blames GOP For U.S. Credit Problem, Associated Press, Politico Cover It Up”
According to this statement in the press release one source of their pessimism is that they assume the Bush tax cuts will not expire next year.
Why would the Fed do a QE3? Unemployment hasn’t gone up or down and inflation is low. Seems they’re likely to stand pat. If Rogoff recommends another QE it’s likely to be bad, though probably in some obscure hard to understand way.
But how many in the MSM are cognizant of the reason London is burning? The British austerity program, in a time of high unemployment, has resulted in even higher unemployment, around 20% for youth. At the same time the cuts to university and apprenticeship education have left the young with no prospects for a better life. They are mad as hell and they are tearing up the system.
Amazingly he did. People complain about Clinton on NAFTA, Telcom deregulation, Welfare Reform, and rightly so. However, Clinton went to the wall with his party to push for minor tax increases and held the line with Gingrich to the point of shutting down the government a few times on budget issues. At tie time he left office the budget was running surpluses and the national debt was predicted to be paid down by 2010-11.
He paid a price, he was witch hunted for most of his terms in office. Still, I give him that and considering today’s clown acts, it was incredible. Obama would do well to study that DLC democrat. It’s this reason I suspect Hillary would have been better than Obama, not much, but better, especially on budget and money expenditures. She may have ended the wars, also.
Obama may be the Oligarchs toady, but he is also a fool.
“But if federal spending declines, as the debt hysterics are demanding, and state/local government spending continues to tank, then GDP must fall.”
I suspect that those behind the debt hysteria see a falling GDP as a desirable outcome. The economic manipulations that we have seen are all about power. If your power is based on inherited or otherwise unearned wealth, then productivity is the enemy. With a falling GDP and an increasingly impoverished electorate, wealth that is already in place translates into ever greater power.
Which I why I think that taxing large fortunes at near confiscatory levels is the only hope for the Republic. Until then, one-citizen/one-vote is an illusion and dictatorship is all but inevitable.
Here is a quote from the S&P report:
“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.”
This is the only instance in the report where a political party is named. The entire 8 page report is at:
http://www.standardandpoors.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobheadername3=MDT-Type&blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3DUS_Downgraded_AA%2B.pdf&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobheadername1=content-type&blobwhere=1243942957443&blobheadervalue3=UTF-8
Well done, Scarecrow. Informative, concise, and more importantly, it checks out in the real world – a little detail completely irrelevant it the MSM.
I lurk in a lot of your diaries; this rec represents a bunch of ‘em.
Obama was a complete bust today. Even *I* knew that, as he was speaking. Very disheartening.
Yup. I have seen a report from a Londoner’s relative (via another non-political channel of mine) that this is a replay of 1981 ~ for those reasons, rising auterity and dimming prospects. Short-sighted and completely predictable by anyone “on the ground” there.
Yeah, what Mason said. Bookmarked for reference to use with idjits . . . rcc’d.
oops, sorry. I read past point 2 a bit too fast although I do think it bears (no pun intended) repeating that we may look good due to others looking so bad.