My heart goes out to the brave, democratic citizens in Wisconsin who worked tirelessly to recall six Republican State Senators, managing to depose two and coming agonizingly close (barring fraud) on a third. They deserve our respect and thanks and our continuing support as they move to the next phase to protect Democratic State Senators.
Those who’ve been paying attention know how important these races are, both to slow down the vicious anti-government, anti-worker movement in Wisconsin and to signal to other states and Congress that they do not have to submit to a group of extremist thugs stripping away their rights, their livelihoods and their dignity. They can fight back.
If there were a worthy national party lending its full support to their Wisconsin counterparts, it might have made a difference. We will never know. Sure, the national organization helped in various ways. But it’s obvious that what the state folks did not want was heavy national presence, and in particular, the “help” of this supposedly Democratic President. Why was that?
I believe that what the folks on the front line in Wisconsin needed most was a united national movement amplifying their grievances and demands. They needed a strong national voice framing a very different, more supportive message than the one they’ve been getting from their President and national Democratic leaders. What they got instead can only have hurt Wisconsin’s efforts.
The consistent message from the national Democratic party and President Obama is that “this is the era of austerity.” The President repeatedly told the nation that government had to tighten its belt, that government debt was a serious problem standing in the way of economic growth and jobs. He said we needed a “grand bargain” that reduced government spending on important programs by trillions of dollars with only limited contributions from the wealthy and corporations. Although he claimed to favor worker rights, he unilaterally froze federal worker salaries. And then he told the elderly that they needed to accept “adjustments” in their pensions and health care after extending tax breaks for the wealthy.
With such a profoundly misguided and destructive message coming from the President and national leaders, it must have been particularly difficult for Wisconsin citizens to explain why voters should recall Republican State Senators for taking positions their President and party were embracing in Washington. To be sure, Wisconsin’s Tea-Party Governor is a fraud, and his party’s actions have been abusive and excessive in slashing state programs and benefits. But Walker’s budget goals and methods are consistent with those of his national counterparts whom Mr. Obama and Democratic leaders have now promised to meet half way in slashing federal programs and benefits. There are few at the national level, and none at the top, making the counter argument about how offensive and obscene this is.
The Republicans in Wisconsin and other battleground states claim they’re on a holy mission, to rid society of the unworthy and profligate, that ripping away public workers and functions is both fiscally necessary and morally righteous. It’s a false economic theory, a worse creed.
Our national leaders should have been reminding those fighting in the states that they were not to blame for the budget crises in their state capitals. Instead, men like Greenspan and Bernanke and Geithner and dozens of other federal regulators who were supposed to be watching the financial/banking sector either fell asleep on their jobs or willfully looked away, while Congress passed laws pretending that fraud and looting were okay if it was called “financial innovation” and “market making.” The regulators failed the country and the looters plundered, but thanks to this President, they’re still in power or presuming to lecture us on television. And now men like Boehner and Cantor and McConnell — and yes, Warner and Durbin and Lieberman are preventing desperately needed federal money from helping the states deal with the damage.
The truth is that President Obama and the national Democratic Party undercut the Wisconsin fighters by adopting harmful Tea-GOP talking points and repeating them night after night on national television. While the national Tea-GOP reinforced their state counterparts’ message at every turn, the national Democrats sabotaged the Wisconsin Democrats’ message.
Wisconsin Democrats didn’t need the President or Senate Democratic leaders to come to Wisconsin. What they needed were national leaders fighting for their cause, for their pro-government principles, for recognition of their rights — in Washington. They needed a President making that fight in Washington and carrying that message to the nation.
But the President and his party have abandoned that fight in D.C., and so abandoned those fighting in Wisconsin. And that’s why, despite heroic Wisconsin efforts, the good guys fell short. No one should count on or follow these corrupt leaders again, ever.
If you’re looking for new leaders, look to Wisconsin and other states under siege, where working people understand what’s going down and aren’t afraid to fight back.



90 Comments

Great summary. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was celebration in the White House and at the DNC last night.
I fail to see how a state party can flourish or move ahead without making common cause with the national party. The democratic party is bankrupt of new ideas and has abandoned its roots. Its “we’re not quite as bad as the other guys” stance is not a sustainable, winning message.
The republicans have mastered the politics of division and demonization and the democrats have no effective counter strategy. They have become useless.
I am sure the party faithful fought the good fight in Wisconsin but it seems a majority of voters continue to favor the republican agenda. Until the actual rotten fruit of their decision shows up on their doorstep the democrats don’t stand a chance nor do theyh deserve one.
Thanks for the post Scarecrow. I am reminded of Coakley’s 19 point advantage in the polls at the end of the primaries when she still vowed not to support Obama’s healthcare bill with restrictions on reproductive freedom and without a public option. After the primaries and before the general election, the House passed such a bill, then Coakley changed her tune and her lead vanished and now we have Senator Scott Brown.
DDay has said that there wasn’t a lot of polling for the Wisconsin recalls, which is a shame. I would have been very interested to see how such polls would have evolved over the last 8 weeks — prior to the debt ceiling debate making major headlines, during the debt ceiling debacle, and then the outcome yesterday. I wonder if the same sort of crippling influence of bad behavior by federal Dems trickled down to the state Dems.
‘a majority of voters continue to favor the republican agenda’
Watched the news and the ads, and like the news and ads here, they do not talk about the republican agenda. Voters did not choose a reality of battering public rights, but a myth about defending the public against Big Gov’t and socialism.
Obama and Herr Alexrod were moon walking across the WH lawn with the news! One battle does not make a war and the fight will continue as it should.
I know GOP kool aid drinkers who still believe Obama and the DNC are pro union and I know Dem kool aid drinkers who still believe Obama and the DNC are pro Unions..but that number (in my circle) is getting smaller so there is hope..3rd party!!
The community organizer is supportive of unions the way he is supportive of Social Security and Medicare.
Here’s the thing: Democrats suck almost as much as Republicans. Many people get that and don’t bother voting. Even in a recall with union busting, etc at stake. And Republicans always motivate their base. The emphasis on these recalls were a bad idea from the beginning.
The protesters should not have stopped the protests and put their faith in Democrats and recalls. Direct action was a much better strategy. What we saw was all the populist momentum co-opted by partisan politics. This has now been demonstrated to be a failed strategy.
he just didn’t say he was organizing AGANIST unions, SS and Medicaid/Medicare!
Just like Bush who maintained complete radio silence during his campaign about privatizing Social Security, and then as soon as he won… “We Must Let Wall Street Save Social Security!!!”
Obama learned well.
Elections are more successful when people have something or somebody to vote FOR.
People are tired of the good cop/bad cop show while Wall Street is stealing us blind.
…something or somebody to vote FOR.
And there lies the problem.
What exactly are the democrats for? I surely have no clue.
thus the “super congress” will cover his butt and gut for him..Pete Peterson must be proud and smiling!
These days ‘progressive’ is a dirty word.
‘Liberal’ is a dirty word.
And ‘socialism’ is a dirty word.
But fascism? Not even mentioned.
Conservative? The mainstream Republicans and far too many Democrats revel in this label.
The Democratic Party has lost its identity, its way, and ultimately its raison d’être.
“I would have been very interested to see how such polls would have evolved over the last 8 weeks”
John Nichols on DemocracyNow reports on possible election irregularities in Waukesha County where late votes gave the election to Alberta Darling the Republican incumbent in a close race with Democrat Sandy Pasch. It would be good to have polling as a check on the election results and ideally exit polling in questionable jurisdictions.
You are so right. I mentioned the “F” word to my evangelical Christain neighbors and she didn’t bat and eye.
But she DID know it was the corporations that were screwing US. I was surprised.
She’s old enough to barely remember WWII, so maybe she knows what the word means
I disagree completely.
Wisconsin was a loss for progressives – no matter how you parse it.
First, it plays into the whole two-party fiasco.
Second, it was highly unlikely that the Dems were ever going to gain 3 seats.
(Remember that the Dem recalls are next week.)
Third, even if they did win the Wis Senate, they could not have overturned the labot-gutting legislation.
So, it was a lot of missing in the wind.
And will be portrayed by the MSM as a loss.
There were much better ways to respond back in January.
(BTW – I’m not Monday morning quarterbacking. I said this in January.)
No, what this should tell people once and for all is that engaging in an electoral process that is so corrupted by the influence of money is NOT “fighting back” at all. Not at all effectively anyway.
As things stand now, with as gamed and corrupted as the electoral process is, seeing voting as a valid avenue for bringing about change is not only a fallacy, it is detrimental because it keeps people focused on something they cannot use to actually achieve any real change. “We, the people” are never going to be able to outspend an establishment oligarchy and we shouldn’t even want to try.
If the people of Wisconsin truly wanted to “fight back” they would begin to organize with the intention of writing their own laws which would get the money out of the election process and change the nature of elections in their state and they would also plan/coordinate acts of civil disobedience and direct action to ensure those laws are passed.
The same applies on a national scale. The act of voting within an inverted totalitarian, managed democracy is not “fighting back.” It is, in fact, engaging them on the ground they want you to engage them on. It helps to maintain the status quo because it is never truly threatening.
If you haven’t seen it, I loved this political cartoon and commentary on Wisconsin and the Democratic Party (national).
http://sinkers.org/stage/?p=796
Especially the part,
“Wisconsin workers’ rebellion … of course, the Democratic Party will make every effort to bleed dry of energy and crush like a grape.”
and
“once again the Democratic Party is readying itself to suck the life’s blood from that movement to prop up the likes of Pelosi, Reid and Obama. In a struggle like this, the last thing you want is support from the craven, opportunist, corporate cock-gobbling Democratic Party.”
“The truth is that President Obama and the national Democratic Party undercut the Wisconsin fighters by adopting harmful Tea-GOP talking points and repeating them night after night on national television. While the national Tea-GOP reinforced their state counterparts’ message at every turn, the national Democrats sabotaged the Wisconsin Democrats’ message.”
Amen, Scarecrow. Once again I ask myself why should I support Obama and the national Democratic Party? I have no reason, inclination or desire to reward those LOTE corporate sell-outs.
The good people in Wisconsin who showed up for the protests in Madison when the temperature was sub-zero, who went door to door to collect signatures on the recall petitions, who phone banked and voted and worked their butts off, they are the folks who give me hope. If the Dems don’t figure out by now that this is who they should be representing, and based on Obama i don’t have any optimism, there won’t be a Democratic Party in 20 years.
A vote for Obama is a reward for his treachery. Simple as that…
True, winning back the Senate alone could not reverse what has already gone down. But it could stop worse stuff, and provide a model for going after the Gov. Next year. I don’t disagree that progressives lost. A strong opposition movement is needed, and the hope was or is, this is a start.
And so an effective strategy is . . . What? This was a long shot, but also spthe quickest remedy they had to stop the onslaught. What should they have done instead?
I do not understand the idea that the Wisconsin voters were so unknowing that they were influenced by money spent on the other side. The Wisconsin case was so blatant and out front that everyone knew the stakes and the reasons to vote.
The implication of that is that the voters, while knowing all of that, decided to vote the other way. That is especially true of voters that decided to turn out for a special election.
The question really is, “why did Wisconsin voters vote for them after seeing what happened?”. Why did our message not resonate? What did we do wrong here?
What we need to do is to convince the voters of the rightness of our cause. We need to educate, starting at the grass roots.
Most Americans have a fairly high level of BS detection, learned from all of the TV ads they must endure. I believe that they are able to apply that filter to most of the political ads as well. It is too simplistic to say that the opponents ran some ads and swayed those folks that had a visceral response to the events in Madison. I will say again that we need to be more precise and effective in explaining why we believe the way that we do.
It’s a losing battle, Americans are determined to become a third-world country. Best thing to do is either look to gather a big enough force in a geographic area to secede or save pennies and emigrate … which is my plan.
Looking at the founding and history of this country, it’s pretty much in line with the rich white founding fathers dreamed of any way. They hated the poor and the nonwhites, and wanted an aristocracy with them on top.
Americans would be better off if there was no America in the first place.
Really great post, Scarecrow.
I do not understand what more the unions could have done to unseat these people. Sad, very sad.
I agree completely Obama and the national party have gutted local parties and would liberal grassroots movements. Consciously and with pre-meditation. The labor and other movements will have to work around the national presence.
A counter movement has to begin someplace. I think Wisconsin was that place. They have given us a beginning if we will take it. I hope other state parties will take notice.
One answer: In that third race the Dems needed to win but didn’t, the reporting says oer $8 million poured in from unknown outside sources, and that could have paid for attack ads and GOTV efforts. Money matters.
Got a call from OFA yesterday, “on behalf of Obama”… I immediately said O can go to hell and hung up.
Anyone suggest a mass de-registration by Democrats as protest of the national party? Seems like an organized campaign to do so would get their attention, and could still re-register in time to vote in local primaries. Or have most non-Obots already done so?
Keep in mind, though, that these elections were fought exclusively in heavily REPUBLICAN districts, NOT statewide. These were districts that had even bucked the pro-Obama wave in -08 by still staying Republican even then.
That two of them did flip and a third came within striking distance of flipping was indeed a n accomplishment, however short it did ultimately fall.
Maybe the activists should have held out for recalls in districts that were less dominated by Republicans, or should have relied more on direct action and independent organization. I guess we’ll never know.
I do agree in one thing, though..the national Democratic Party is at best useless, and at worst as much the enemy as the TeaPublican Right. Leftists and Progressives need to either take it over or bolt from it and form their own party. Frankly, I’m more toward the latter.
Anthony
This is a fantastic, fantastic diary, Scarecrow. Thank you so much.
I’m forwarding it to several friends with whom I’ve been having “discussions” re what’s wrong with Obama and the Democrats. You’ve made the case better than anything I could write.
Thank you.
Interesting post. It sort of validates my gut level reaction all day. The thought kept going round and round in my head, “I blame YOU, Obama!” And the more rational part of me would think “Why? I know that I’m angry with Obama in general, but is it really fair to also blame him for what happened last night?” And I think the answer is, yes, it is fair.
What happened was a victory. Democrats won two races in a state that has never had a successful recall election. That is big. But the problem is that it should have been bigger. We were denied the route that we should have had. In a way it’s like the healthcare bill. Yes, some of what we got was good. But we should have gotten MUCH more with all the cards that were in our favor.
The fact that we were denied the result we should have had is, frankly, Obama’s fault. He did nothing substantial in the face of Citizens United, and he joined with the Republicans and their national chant of austerity. As Scarcrow said, it undercut the Wisconin message in a horrible, horrible way.
But it’s that damned Citizens United that is our death knell, and it’s Obama’s inaction that sealed our fate. We were denied our victory because of money, money and more money. And that is NOTHING compared to what it coming at those two Democrats up for election next week or in the general elections of 2012.
We are so screwed.
agreed
democracynow this morning mentioned that one of the WI Rs might vote with the Ds on some labor matters, FWIW.
Having said that, I fail to see why WI Ds are any better than national Ds, or if they are today, why they won’t be bought off tomorrow.
At least Republicans suffered a net loss in Wisconsin.
And the electoral fight was taken into districts that are decidedly Red.
I guess if you extrapolate, this might bode well for Democrats going forward.
Seems to be a lot of voter exasperation and anger directed at incumbents. Obama will be the incumbent.
(I’m not advocating for Democratic candidates, as such, just savoring every single Republican defeat.)
No Shit, party down and go on vacation. We are f&^%$#@ doomed.
local primaries are still important – until we get a substitute the Dems
You mean that democrats will continue to lose, just by less? Yay………I guess.
It’s an interesting question, but ask yourself: have you always had the perfect opinions you have today, or are you, like me, learning stuff over time, and even changing views — e.g., becoming more radicalized? And if the answer is the latter, why isn’t that possible for the folks in Wisconsin?
Or to put it another way, a recall election is somewhat unusual, and people who normally don’t care have to be pretty worked up to pull that off. I believe that experience has changed people there, and more than a few of us in other states.
Were screwed if we stick with these two parties. We need a new party, new representatives and perhaps shorter terms for the Senate.
Ed Schultz on MSNBC now asking Obama, “are you going to get in the game? What about Ohio?” He just gave one of his better rants. He asks John Nichols if the President helped in Wisconsin? Nichols: No he did not. . . .
Learning new stuff about the political situation every day. Mainly how deeply embedded the power of money is and how the PTB have worked for decades to dismantle the FDR reforms, from every angle, like corrupting the courts, any “independent” academic work, think tanks, as well as the D party. They could corrupt a third party in an eyeblink bc of their money. And it is a spiral in the wrong direction. They’ve been running circles around the plebes.
One part of history I know too little about is how the stage was set to pull off what FDR did. I just started Zinn’s Peep’s History, so hopefully that will fill in some of the details.
Or to put it a different way, as you know my career was forecasting. If you want to forecast change, you need to see, not only seeds of change, but also seeds that have the power to overcome trends already existent. You also need to have a sense of timing. A good example of both is that the bubbles in the U.S. economy (dot-com, housing, to name the two most recent, but disaster of Wash Consensus as well as many others could be added), yet it still took much longer (years) before the bubbles burst and the disaster ensued. As for the Wash Consensus, it still, after ruling for so long, has now come “home,” which was the point of the exercise.
Another timing lesson might be Rome. It took 200 years for republic to bc a dictatorship, with the senate becoming powerless. That’s about where the U.S. is today, with roughly the same timing. It took another 200 years for he enemies Rome created to defeat it. I wouldn’t carry that analogy very far, but it does make one think carefully about the issue of timing.
The elections were in 6 districts the Republicans carried in 2008, a big Democratic year! These are Republican districts. The Democrats carried 2 districts and, if there had been United Nations inspectors monitoring the polls, might have carried a third.
Very few people in Madison could vote in those districts. You would expect a good number of people living in those districts to have been offended by the events in Madison.
“We” didn’t do anything wrong here. All in all it was a remarkable triumph.
Don’t underestimate the power of marketing.
I believe this is not a total loss, as it looks like maybe the people are retaking the WI Dem. party from the pros. Look what happened in AR, with Holder coming fairly close to beating Blanche Lincoln. The main idea is to put fear into organization candidates, that they should keep in the back of their minds that they may be primaried. That sense of fear is a way to make the organization candidates responsive to grass roots pressures. In WI at least the organization candidates saw first hand what citizens anger can bring, and I think that this is a positive development. I think Walker is now running scared, and you will see pressure to speed the agenda as he realizes that there maybe a limited time available to pass it. I think for the left to succeed in WI they have be very aggressive, to confront not only the GOP but also the Dem. party apparatchiks.
I live in Wisconsin, and while the spirit of this post is dead on, I don’t see the reality, especially, “The truth is that President Obama and the national Democratic Party undercut the Wisconsin fighters by adopting harmful Tea-GOP talking points and repeating them night after night on national television.” I don’t really think so. As someone who is a state worker, and who fought for the Democrats in this recall, there was no awareness of this in the state–nobody was sweating the big picture or what was going on nationally. Everyone knows national pols are out for themselves. The recall movement here, while aided by outside support, was focused on the citizens of Wisconsin doing what they could with the means they had. Nobody wanted Obama here because he’s useless on a practical level–speeches do nothing for us and we knew that day one. To be honest, we wanted the Packers to show up more than any national figure because they are actually unionized and the whole state supports them. If you were in Wisconsin fighting this fight, then it was all about your neighbors and the grass roots. If somebody like Michael Moore or Jesse Jackson showed up it was sort of cool, but nobody really cared. Just look at the return numbers–they show serious division in the state, and any Democratic party involvement from the national level, or Obama getting involved, don’t change that ratio, they just reinforce it.
I am not an Obama fan but blaming this defeat on O and the democrats is a real leap. The people responsible for the loss last nite are the residents of Wisconsin not Obama. Until the people get tired of republican ideology and policies and quit voting for republicans they deserve what they get.
I was wondering last night w/n the prez had even acknowledged, much less participated, in these races.
Alternatively, it might be that no one is WI wanted his name associated with them.
The leader of the national Democratic Party, the prez, doesn’t seem interested in unseating repubs. It’s a decorum thing, ya know, and is in direct contravention of his Barney “I Love, You Love Me, We’re a Happy Family” system of governing.
@robbep. Exactly. That’s what my wife and I have been saying all along. There are people here celebrating. They want jobs with no benefits and low pay–all day the refrain is “we won!” from repubs. Won what? School cuts and losses for your neighbors? But you’re dead on–they voted for what they wanted.
I don’t think he can help. He has pretty much locked himself out of anything of value. He has hung his campaign on cutting spending so that the private sector can create jobs. He sounds like a republican. Would you want him “helping” you?
Maybe, but where is the money to support the agenda?
ummm – no.
But then, my net worth is a tad shy of eight figures.
In the end people got what they wanted. And they did not want the democratic candidates. Progressives may need a better message.
So true. I don’t know if a “better message” will do it so much as a different one. That fact is, people here don’t want state employees to have benefits and they, for the large part, hate unions. I guess I’m in the minority. I think I’m right, but I got outvoted.
“…this might bode well for Democrats going forward.”
Wish I could be certain that this was a good thing.
Republican lite is like a choice between dying by heart attack today or cancer 6 months from now.
If you can find any country to which to emigrate, please write it up.
I’ve been looking for some time, and the barriers are significant. [Other countries DO enforce their immigration laws.]
I think it’s going to get harder and harder, as millions of Americans in search of decent health care and a reasonable “safety net” attempt to flee. Who would want us?
As I have said many times on this forum and on other progressive forums,we on the political left are making a big mistake by supporting the demands of the public employee unions. The vast majority of the American people who are middle and working class do not enjoy the benefits that their unions have won for public employees and greatly resent the fact that public employees enjoy benefits,especially regarding health care that they can only drem about.
So when politicians come along and pass laws that force public employees to pay more towards their pensions and health insurance,the majority of the public supports the new laws,collective bargaining or no collective bargaining.Some things must be regulated by law and this includes the benefits of public employees.Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo in New York realizes this simple fact,that there has to be legislative control over the ever escalating costs of pensions and health benefits for public employees.If he realizes it,why can’t the people on FDL realize it.
Let me pose this question,who on this board thinks that a police officer who makes over $100,000 a year is a member of the “working class”? Thats what they make in most of the New York-New Jersey Metro area.
Great article!
That $8mil likely also paid to suppress the vote and rig the vote at many levels . . .
we’re trying!
Its not easy because much of the outside union money (and there is tons of it, much “hidden” under a set of umbrella organizations) means national unions fully complicit with Dem party leadership is calling many of the shots.
But you have to be involved and see the different layers of organizations and how they operate top-down to understand this.
I am grateful for the support in this desperate time of needs, but I am also concerned that we need to take back the party to see meaningful change.
I did . . . and I like the tactic and have suggested it a number of times . . . never got any feedback . . . many folks are enamored with a certain few newbie type orgs spouting planks, issues, committee’s but with no budgets or candidates.
I believe a mass party defection and dereg to Indie or ‘undeclared’ or such effort would be simple, affordable, and perhaps hugely successful if the blogosphere got on board . . . alas . . . crickets.
I was on the ground regularly. How can you say this?
Bed hopper randy hopper should have been SLAUGHTERED at the polls last night and, before the fiasco about the manufactured national debt crisis, polling indicated he would be.
It ended up being a nail biter.
Sure, the tons of late outside money and negative ads made a difference.
I don’t see how you can dismiss outright the idea that the repeated capitulations to a non-existing “tea party” mandate did not impact the races.
You may be in WI, but must not be near the fox valley.
What’s the rent for family of four, mortgage for same, food, insurance costs, auto/transport costs, etc in that metro?
Just how far does 100K go? I bet it’s relative to most expensive metro’s and as you get out of the metro areas the salary comes down as do the costs of living there.
So, yer point is kinda, lacking and useless.
And in general, public service employees make less than than private sector . . . n let’s talk about how them pensions got raided and deflated by half or more since ’03 . . .
You bray a lot, but yer leaving some interesting and essential details out of yer GOP talking points . . . . tell Rove to change the script, it’s old and worn.
Nice read SC, thanks once again . . . no national help, perhaps none WANTED BY WI proggy’s . . . still, it would have helped to counter the $illions that flowed in from Koch/Peterson and some national spotlight might have significantly reduced voter suppression, voter harassment, elimination of exit pollers, n rigged procedures and behaviors in general . . . rcc’d, always.
My response: Odd no complaints about these public workers when they rushed toward what thousands of terrified fleeing private sector workers ran from on September 11, 2001.
We called them heroes, then. Now we think their wages and benefits should be adjusted downward faster than those buildings went down.
How ignorant. How shameful.
But I guess it’s more manly to despise the guy one or two pay grades higher than confront the rich Bubbas behind you fucking you senseless….
Seems like a de-reg rate of just a few percent would do the trick. And again, after the symbolic defection, should stress re-registration for voting in local primaries/caucuses. I suppose the most active party operatives couldn’t de-reg because of their necessary activity in local party operations, but plenty of us rank/file members that just follow issues and vote could sign on to the de-reg campaign.
Sadiron, I have read the same from other people in the state. In fact, some were hostile to the suggestion that Obama had anything to do with what was going on. I guess I don’t understand the idea that Obama even if he were to join with state Dems, that he would be a hinderance or useless. You mean that having the most well known figure on the global showing up and support the recalls, walk with protesters, draw tons of media (and money), register people to vote, etc, would actually hurt the effort.
If that is the case, at least for me, you are asking people to believe companies like Nike are spending useless money on celebrity endorsements, that propaganda does not work, that gop money on ads does not matter, that leadership is about silence, and on and on.
I am sure people believed it, but I am also getting the idea that for many it was a form of denial that a man maybe they admired so mcuh fundamentally abandoned them.
Now don’t hold me to this, but I’ve heard that Wall Street has promised to get him a perfect-fitting pair of diamond-studded walking shoes if he holds off visiting Wisconsin until after the 2012 election.
Real good, Mr./Ms. “We on the political left.”
Maybe progressives need better elected representatives to stand up for the f*ing retards of the world for a change.
Democrats and unions spent $31 million in a small state like Wis. If they can’t do it with that, no amount of help from D.C. would have mattered.
They will have to console themselves with being right instead of being in charge.
>no amount of help from D.C. would have mattered
luckily, “no amount” is exactly how much help the President provided
Would you rather underpay these guys and have them take bribes, or pay them decent wages? If they can’t make money from their jobs, they will make the money one way or another. This is why you have corrupt public servants in low wage countries.
You can’t win, but given a choice I would rather pay them well than having to bribe these people each time you need to get something done.
The real question, litvak36, is to ask:
“Would you work as a New York-New Jersey Metro Area Police Officer for less than $100,000.00? If not, why should any one else?” I know we don’t have the reins to frame the debate, but the discussion should be a lot more “We” and a lot less “them”.
Unless, of course, you are talking about our economic overlords.
Obama was it for me. There isn’t anyone left. The Democratic party has completely degenerated to pond scum.
Scarecrow,
I know how disappointed folks can feel that Dems in Wisconsin didn’t capture all three state Senate seats. I live in California now, but I was born and raised in Wisconsin. So I’ve been following this fight pretty closely. In fact, I grew up in Waukesha county, and I feel such extreme frustratuion every time Waukesha county is in the news. The state of Wisconsin keeps stepping forward at the vanguard of the progressive movement, and then Waukesha county grabs the coat tail and drags the state backward toward the 19th century.
My personal take is that the election results are a qualified win or a gain for progressives. No, it wasn’t a grand slam home run, the way it would’ve been if Dems had gotten all three seats. And, yes, Republicans can claim victory too, but it’s a measured victory.
There’s a good post by Robert Creamer on HuffPo today that makes that assessment. Consider this–Dems went deep into Republican territory, went after the reddest of the red seats (and I think these incumbents may have held these sets for a long time), and they got two out of three. Of course, Repubs will try to spin it, to make it sound like they won. But did you notice Walker’s change in tone yesterday? He fears the Dems in Wisconsin. In Washington, Repubs and Obama have contempt for progressives. In Wisconsin, they fear us now. I’d say that in Wisconsin, the dogs not only barked, but they bit twice.
This analysis is fine and true with regard to the Democrats. But why did a labor struggle have to be channeled exclusively into recall campaigns to get more milquetoast Democrats elected???
People were spontaneously walking off their jobs in order to protest in February. Literally 100s of thousands of people took to the streets. Workers in carhartts and workers in cardigans were coming together in genuine solidarity. In response, and with malice aforethought, the AFL-CIO leadership and DP leadership sought to drawn down the labor actions, walk outs and street politics and to channel the discontent into the tepid waters of working to elect people whose only redeeming feature is sucking less than the Republican. An attack on labor is best fought off with the methods of labor struggle. Work to rule, slow down, walk outs and eventually, a general strike. Labor solidarity is a far more powerful tool than the rigged game of three card Monty we call electoral politics.
the people aren’t the problem. the laws are. and the unions could have done much more to fight the laws. The union leadership took the energy of mass walk outs and street protests and channeled into the DP. I nice way to drain away militancy.
But why limit your focus to the electoral arena? This was a labor issue. Labor has ways of fighting that are not limited to supporting democrats.
Sorry? Did you read my entire post?
Get the money out of the system. Throw their bodies on the gears and wheels to do so.
There is no quick and easy remedy to stop the onslaught and people should quit looking for one. People HAVE to stop focusing on trying to put out fires and begin thinking long term. They HAVE to stop flailing away at the leaves and begin looking to attack the root. People HAVE to stop thinking in terms of election cycles and elections altogether for the time being. Thinking big picture, what has participating in elections done for the majority of the people in this country over the past 30 years? There is no stopping the slide by participating in a gamed process. People have to begin to truly LEARN LESSONS. They have to begin to recognize what will not work. Otherwise they will never try something that can work.
First, I commend you because we’re on the same side and this was a tough fight. Not only am I near the Fox Valley, I used to work at UW-Fox Valley. I stand by my original point–there are many, many people (who I think are ignorant, believe me) who simply don’t want what we want. Do you really think people who voted for Hopper would have been persuaded not to by a high positioned Democrat? Yes, Hopper should have been slaughtered–all of them should have; I just don’t think Obama’s actions during this time (primarily on the debt ceiling) impacted this in any way. People voted for Hopper because they can’t be reasoned with, by anyone. Either way, were allies, so this is all said with respect.
Organize more people into unions. Unions came about when they were illegal. We can do this again. Have workers work to rule. Have workers engage in slow downs. Have workers engage in sick outs. Have workers engage in 1 day walk outs. Organizing labor is the best response to an attack on organized labor. If the funds wasted on dems had gone into organizing campaigns the unions of Wisconsin would be in a much better position than they are right now.
Again, with all due respect, and I mean that: you’re making my point for me. Obama is not spending money here. His speeches are not money. If he draws media here we get the same wishy-washy “balanced” coverage we always get. Celebrity endorsements work because they are innocuous, celebrated figures–as soon as a celebrity goes political product endorsements evaporate. If Obama were, by himself, a secret spending SuperPac, then by all means get involved. Personally, I don’t see the vote would have changed much. The people who voted Republican cannot be reasoned with.
Thanks for the perspective. I agree we shouldn’t diminish in any way how much the folks in WI accomplished against formidable odds. Hats off to them. I’m asking what more could the national leaders have done,or not done, to help.
Well, not sure where theres a disagreement. I didn’t suggest that having Obama personally come to WI would have helped. It might have hurt or had no effect. I dunno.
My point is about the harmful message the whole country was getting, and reinforced by O and leaders of national Dems, with no one making the counter argument against austerity to support the local battles against how austerity gets imposed on real people. We needed a national message saying this whoe concept of slashing state programs and taking it out on public emplyees is wrong, wrong for the employees, wrong for the state programs, wrong for the economy as a whole.
Point taken. I’ve been reading your stuff for awhile and always enjoy it. This is the first time I’ve posted here. My main point was really that, in being in Wisconsin, the fight really felt entirely local. There’s no doubt the Tea Partiers here are tuned into the national message from Republicans.
Baron von cheddarwurst(what a screen name)no one is twisting arms to force guys to join the police in North Jersey where I have lived for these 75 years.In fact,in most of the low crime suburban towns,they fight over getting on the police force and use whatever political clout they or their friends and relatives have to get appointed.Plenty of nepotism involved in getting these jobs and other public jobs.Its a bonanza for otherwise uneducated young people who can make alot more than they can make in private industry,(what industry?) its all overseas now anyway.
Let me ask you,do you think most voters in this time of high unemployment give a rats ass about the economic interests of public employees? The answer is very much negative.