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Bill McKibben, co-founder of 350.org and organizer of the Tar Sands Action protests at the White House and who with 64 others was arrested and spent two nights in jail because the D.C. police wanted to discourage more protests, spoke to a group from Occupy Wall Street who are also not discouraged.
As he’s been doing from the beginning, McKibben made a direct connection between the greed and corruption of the corporate/financial system represented by Wall Street and the greed and folly on global climate change represented by the Keystone XL Pipeline and tar sands oil development in Alberta, Canada.
Bill invited the Occupy participants to join him in circling the White House on November 6 to liberate Barack Obama. It’s shaping up to be an exorcism. The message to President Obama is classic:
Here’s the text, courtesy of Tar Sands Action:
Today in the New York Times there was a story that made it completely clear why we have to be here. They uncovered the fact that the company building that tar sands pipeline was allowed to choose another company to conduct the environmental impact statement, and the company that they chose was a company was a company that did lots and lots of work for them. So, in other words, the whole thing was rigged top to bottom and that’s why the environmental impact statement said that this pipeline would cause no trouble, unlike the scientists who said if we build this pipeline it’s “game over” for the climate. We can’t let this pipeline get built.
On November 6, one year before the election, we’re going to be in DC with a huge circle of people around the White House and they’re going to be carrying signs with quotations from Barack Obama from the 2008 campaign. He said, “It’s time to end the tyranny of oil.” He said, “I will have the most transparent government in history.” We have to go to DC to find out where they have locked that guy up. We have to free Obama, because there is some sort of stunt double there now. So on November 6, I hope we can move, just for a day, Occupy Wall Street down to the White House and get them in the fight against corporate power.
The reason that it’s so great that we’re occupying Wall Street is because Wall Street has been occupying the atmosphere. That’s why we can never do anything about global warming. Exxon gets in the way. Goldman Sachs gets in the way. The whole fossil fuel industry gets in the way. The sky does not belong to Exxon. They cannot keep using it as a sewer into which to dump their carbon. If they do, we’ve got no future and nobody else on this planet has a future.
I spend a lot of time in countries around the world organizing demonstrations and rallies in solidarity. In the last three years at 350.org, we’ve had 15,000 rallies in every country except North Korea. Everywhere around the world, poor people and black people and brown people and Asian people and young people are standing up. Most of those places, don’t produce that much carbon. They need us to act with them and for them, because the problem is 20 blocks south of here. That’s where the Empire lives and we’ve got to figure out how to tame it and make it work for this planet or not work at all.
Thank you guys very much.
Here’s the link to the New York Times article Bill mentioned, the original Think Progress blog by Brad Johnson that the Times, uh, forgot to mention, and our follow up at FDL.
82 Comments
Bravo Bill McKibben! This is genius.
Yes, he’s been making lot of these connections lately. interesting to watch the framing evolve and adapt to the new opportunity.
I am concerned the that Occupy movement will get watered down with movements such as the Tar Sands. Yes. I think the Tar Sands protests are important and should continue, but my concern is that this movement has a strong brand as a liberal/progressive movement and my concern is that once again the majority, which for the first time in my life appears to be united against Washington and Wall Street will be diluted and essentially broken up, fragmented.
That is exactly how the 1-5% have maintained control over the majority of us since the beginning of our nation. They have divided us up against each other.
I think that at least in the beginning our focus should stay on the corruption of Congress and of Wall Street along with the non action on job creation and rebuilding our economy because these are the points that the majority agree upon 100%–not the Tar Sands. That issue is divisive and highly controversial.
whether it is a good thing or not, if we ask the 14.5 million people in America who are out of work what their primary concerns are–I can fairly well guarantee you that their top concern is getting a job, paying the rent, putting food on the table. We need to stick to these basic issues that the majority can agree on and build a consensus from there. Tar Sands, Climate change, drilling permits, etc.–all these are divisive issues at the moment that are associated with liberals and I don’t think they should be on the table of Occupy.
I do not know what is correct in the discussion. But I do think everyone on the “good” side is empowered when corruption and duplicity, such as the Tar Sands study (review) are exposed. The stink gets greater.
if mckibben thinks there is a stunt double, he is, at best, engaging in willful blindness.
obama has taken more corporate money, and continues to bash during the day, and court wall street at night, more than any president in the nation’s history.
100% of these protests should be at the WH… and then down the block at the Capitol…
that is where the intellectual and ethical detritus lives.
I love the idea of ringing the White House
Like a flashmob show
Bill McKibben is on the wrong side of herstory. The president has been bought and paid for by the wall streeters and banksters and he is beholden to them for his 2012 run. If he had been sincere about creating jobs back in 2009, he would have made that his top priority and once jobs were in place, then tackled the health care issue which again was watered down to appease the drug and insurance companies.
I hope OWS does not get corrupted by hearing all the various messages which are disgusted to help the Dems get re-elected in 2012.
I think that the Tar Sands issue, in light of all the recent revelations, is useful as a concrete illustration of how the out-of-control corporations exert their influence in contravention of the People’s interests, and so dovetails nicely with the basic Occupy message.
I was just going to say pretty much the same thing. Stunt double?? What a joke!!
I agree. I marched in a huge protest in Chicago a few years ago and there were too many issues being raised, from the treatment by ICE of one particular person, to Ron Paul supporters. I hung out with Code Pink because they had the best chants and were the most fun.
I like the idea of ringing the WH as well, and the flashmob concept would be great. it wold have the added bonus of amking it harder for park police to anticipate
Plus flash mobs always seem to tickle the public’s fancy.
While the tar sand opposition is certainly important and I aboslutely support it, the fact is they had their protest and it did not spark a national movement.
OWS did.
It’s not quite cricket to try to co-opt OWS for another purpose. It smacks of opportunism.
I agree. It’s a smoking gun.
As you say, ‘useful as a concrete illustration’
of the OWS message.
I understand that, to a degree, Obama was constrained by a dysfunctional Senate. But his willingness to offer concessions before chairs were even pulled up to the negotiating table does not speak well of his true intent. Likewise, he was NOT in control of closing Guantanamo, repealing BigPharma’s Medicare Part D coup, etc. But you know what he WAS in control of? Putting on his marching shoes (sneakers) and joining the protesters (union workers) in Madison . . . and he didn’t. Neither the Senate, nor the House, nor the DNC, nor Michelle stole his shoes. He merely opted not to put them on, as previously promised.
As for the OWS–I hope they DO hear all the various messages–but keep first and foremost, “We are the 99-percenters.” We worry that Tar Sands, or Move to Amend, or Get the Money Out, etc. will co-opt OWS. Instead, I see all these diverse messengers climbing on the OWS bandwagon . . . and the louder our diverse voices are, with a single unifying goal–99% vs. 1%–the more likely we are to be heard.
We all know that terrier fans are never wrong lol. ;-)
Part of the success of #occupy is that it is spontaneous and has grown and developed organically. Maybe 350.org should do the action now and call people to join in now. Follow the lead and spirit of the occupiers because they have been incredibly successful.
I am strongly against Tar Sands but OCCUPY should have one goal, one talking point and stay with it. There will be plenty of people who want to tap into a great movement such as this and use it. They shouldn’t be allowed to even if their cause is righteous.
I disagree that the Tar Sands White House protest did not spark a national movement. It was a visible part of the chain that is this movement.
Egypt-Wisconsin- Tar Sands-OWS- OWS all across the country. Each link is important and like an avalanche is gathering heft and speed for the movement
Agreed. OWS is a working class movement, leave the save-the-whales bullshit for another time.
Planning out the details and announcing an action a month out just doesn’t have the same energy and verve as #occupy. But I love the ring the WH idea.
I think Liz Berry is spot on. Too many issues will be a distraction. The Tar Sands problem, and the lack of jobs (Icurrently, I am unemployed and have been semi-employed for two years now) is a subset of the overall problem of the 5% fix on the economy. We should stick to the very basics. The PTB have divided us for too lopng, it’s time to fight back!
Nice
I think OccupyAmerica should peaceably protest, with any and all grievances. No limits are needed.
There is nothing more important than stopping the Tar Sands Pollution by the KochRoaches. There is nothing more important than stopping the criminal and illegal wars that Obama now owns. There is nothing more important than punishing the Predator Rats of Wall Street as they prepare another economic crash. There is nothing more important than replacing the corrupt system that is putting Americans into poverty.
Let people be their own leaders. Let people choose what they want to protest. All of the corruption is tied together by the International Banksters. It ALL has to be attacked and occupied!
I agree too, but I think that when 99%ers are interviewed by the MSM tht should first bring up the fixed economy and then say something like, “…for example, here’s how the tar sands project illistrates how the economy has been fixed…”
Interesting to see comments worried that the message of Occupy will get hijacked . . . e.g. by people trying to save the planet from corporate greed and financial domination of the major energy corporations. One of the values of Occupy is that it helps frame the discussion, connect the dots, for many other issues. If Occupy doesn’t stand for saving the planet from the environmental aspects of corporate greed, as well as stopping the human impacts, and along with many other worthwhile causes, then what??
Classic
I spent two nights in the cell directly across from McKibben last August, and I don’t think McKibben has any illusions about Obama. The rhetoric he’s using is designed to get under the man’s skin, and it’s a serious threat.
Occupy does need to address the environmental elements of the problem but OCCUPY is in its infancy and needs to walk before it can run. I think they’re doing just fine right now.
Obama is the problem, not the solution.
Yep. It’s an all hands on deck moment, and tar sands is integral to the message of corporate/government power overthrowing the will of the peeps.
Scarecrow, are you in DC now?
Yes, but one can argue Occupy movement will grow as those in individual issue silos look outside come to recognize they’re in a much larger, common battle. I don’t know how this will play out, but I think these connections are critically important to both the larger movement and those who until now were focused only on their own issues. JMO.
No, near Boston, Cambridge.
I totally agree. Let McKibben do his circling and leave OWS alone. He just wants to tap into the OWS energy, something he’s never been able to achieve for the environmental movement. And…I am against the Keystone XL pipeline and am concerned about the environment, but let McKibben figure out how to effectively protest.
i thiink it is great that ows principles find a direct application in the tar sands
i also think the more connections made the better as the web is very difficult to see for those inside it
350 does not dilute ows, it amplifies it
and it does so by focusing on the most pressing global issue in human history
not to mention that mckibben is proving to be a brilliant organizer and tactician
kudos to all
viva la revolucion!
Great job, Scarecrow! And Bill, my thanks for doing all you’re doing. I have to wonder how much better off we’d be if the Supreme Court had chosen Gore over Bush instead of what we got. Or better yet, that the Supreme Court had deferred to the voters to make the choice and never taken the case. Instead they denied the people’s choice, so ultimately we will have to deal with the corruption of the court system from the top down as well.
I must say, if I had a vote in this, I would say that, far from being off topic or any kind of heavy handed way to hijack the Occupy Wall Street movement, the Tar Sands issue, as part of the whole Global Climate Change initiative, is all part of the reason why we feel we must take back our government. When we say we have a vital interest in this issue, we are not kidding. It’s fast becoming a matter of life and death.
It’s not really a flashmob if it’s planned for November, though.
We’re arguing about an issue that should be presented at the General Assembly. Let them discuss and decide.
In any event, I do not believe the OWS movement is so rigid that it cannot prevail if some of the protesters splinter off for a day to participate in the group exorcism at the White House on November 6th.
No harm in asking and it isn’t as if stopping the Keystone XL Pipeline is a trifling matter.
From time to time hot issues will pop up requiring attention, discussion, and action. OWS should devote some time to establishing a process to handle such matters. It cannot put the world on hold and expect nothing will happen.
Spot on Twain and I can tell you the people in St. Louis are not talking about Obama or anything else except Wall Street corporate greed and outsourcing of jobs. *g*
I’m hoping that the 99% meme will dominate. That means that we are united. This country is so fucked up that *just pick something and do it* should be the order of the day. Surround the Democratic White House and amplify the Democratic President’s lies? I think it’s a great idea. The only people offended should be the 1% and the dirt bags who love them. Unemployed people need air and water just like employed people do.
My concern about diluting the message is that I’d bet that a large majority of the citizens don’t know about Tar Sands and therefore wouldn’t care.
Shouldn’t be allowed by who?
When the teacher were protesting budget cuts last spring in Los Angeles, the LaRouchies showed up with their (professionally printed) signs. They weren’t there to protest budget cuts, they were there to get the free publicity from the TV camera crews. I suspect there were other groups there for the same reason.
Troy Davis grew the movement, and that was much more OT. Truly, now is the time to air grievances. All issues are related in that the interests of the people are being subsumed by the will of the power elite.
i agree w you that the 99% is the key
but i beleive it is also important to begin making connections
yes, those connections may at least temporarily lower the 99% but eventually — soon, with luck — it will only be the 1% left to defend the indefensible in all its ugly permutations
The movement isn’t “build jobs now!” it’s Occupy Wall Street — it’s stop ALL of the horrific consequences of corporate power, control and ownership of our country and our world. If it were “just” jobs then a demand would be easy: put a trillion dollars into infrastructure and schools, and pay for it with a progressive tax on the 1%. Now. Over and out. That would reduce a lot of the immediate suffering here in the US. But that would just put off the next bubble and hasten misery, or death, of billions around the globe (from Global Warming)
Global warming is perhaps the best example of corporate control, even without this “smoking gun,” and even when corporations comply with the law and their purpose (the wars are of course other great examples). When you look at the world as a whole — and the entire US is closer to the 1% –it’s even more prevalent. We emit, and people in Bangladesh and the Maldives drown. We emit, and the people of Nepal and India die of thirst. Etc. And Exxon and the Koch brothers and the usual suspects lie and hide the truth. If you think that the issue is “just” whales or “make the planet cleaner,” it’s time to learn about the issue, and time for FDL to post more about the issue. The flooding and the droughts of 2011 are nothing like what we can expect within 50 years — within the lifetimes of many at OWS — we’re not talking about the planet or whales or even human grandchildren, we’re taking “us.” And in terms of grandchildren and beyond, James Hansen says it’s game over for the human race (not whales) if we go after unconventional carbon like in the Tar Sands.
But I agree that there should be worry about and defense against one person or group co-opting the movement, and I agree that Bill McKibben, like many environmentalists, is often too “whimpy” to say the least — I was so happy that he had started doing more civil disobedience, and was very impressed when he/they got a hundred or more people to get arrested each day for a few weeks. But then the “next step” was to go to Obama campaign offices with a feeble message, which I thought was a giant step backwards, and holding hands around the white house a year before the election without saying there’s anything that Obama could do that would make McKibben and the others not vote for Obama is also disappointing.
I don’t know if educating people is part of the mission but it sure seems to be one of the benefits of it. In the past week i have heard 3 people use the phrase “99%’ in conversation.
These would not have been people to use that phrase 6 weeks ago. Tar Sands concerns us all and i will smile when i hear these same three folks use that in a conversation.
We do not have a media which works for us so the people are becoming the media.
Really? Only a working class struggle? I don’t think so. It’s more like the top 1% versus EVERYBODY else.
It may even be part of something more global. Our elites haven’t just screwed us, but they have been unleashed on the rest of the world and are under the full protection and carry the enforcement of the US government.
It’s kind of ignorant to equate climate change as an environmental movement only unless issues that will have devastating impacts on our entire civilization need to be shoe horned as a green issue. Do you like living? Is freedom to breathe clean air something you won’t fight for? No, that kind of freedom is scary, isn’t it?
I could be sensing you all wrong and I think you are deliberately baiting, so here’s your challenge, try sounding sensible.
But, but Liz, aren’t you saying that having clean air to breathe and insuring that we don’t have to go to a job in a canoe is less important? I don’t know about you, Liz, but when a climatologist of the caliber of James Hansen says flat out, if the Tar Sands Pipeline gets built, it’s pretty much “game over” for climate change, I sit up and listen. Anybody here that doesn’t believe Inhofe and his ilk are bought and paid for by big oil, one of the worst offenders on the corruption of government, and they will be up till the last drop of oil is brought up from Mother Earth. Greedy bastards all!
The young people who are in the street — those who started OWS — don’t have first-hand memories of the 1960′s and 1970′s protest movement like older folks do. The caution that grew in the movement out of being the victims of PTB propaganda (we’re still calling ourselves DFH’s) is not present in the young people. They are learning about villification and propaganda first hand now.
However, it is a fearlessness that lack of experience has made possible for #occupy. IMO, we *all* need to return to the fearlessness of youth at this moment and throw caution to the wind. There is power in numbers, and if Egyptians could fill the streets, unafraid, in the face of torture if arrested, then we can face our fears of derision by the power elite. JMVHO.
The msm’s function is to find someone who is less well spoken and if that’s not possible, take something said out of context to make the movement appear less than.
I don’t agree the Nov. 6 Tar Sands action would dilute the message of the Occupy movement or be a distraction.
The energy economy and destruction to the environment are most definitely related to the People’s movement.
McKibben’s effort is a one-day event that would amplify the message.
Yes, I think “stunt double” is a clever sound byte. And it’s true for Obama the Candidate vs Obama the President.
I can’t help but think that if the silent majority (a large part of the 99%) knew what the government is hiding (including the science not included in the environmental impact study in order to stilt opinions toward construction) they would care. Their ignorance is largely due to corruption of the government.
Agreed.
I’m kinda confused I guess. Folks upthread having a discussion saying that this isn’t also part of the same message – “our” government has merged with Wall Street and other Too Bigs. It no longer serves our interests, doesn’t even serve our civilization’s interests.
If some in the crowd want to just say jobs, sounds ok to me, but we’re at the point when the elites don’t give a damn about any of the rest of us, that seems more of what the struggle is about to me.
I’d argue it should be about everything, ENOUGH is enough, and we are no longer satisfied being sold into this form of slavery.
I have one other thing to say, and that is when the Supreme Court decided that money = speech, and bestowed personhood on corporations, they knew or should have known they were giving corporations an advantage over individual citizens. They were essentially muffling the speech of the masses, who couldn’t be heard over the din of the dollared. Our voices were being drowned out, and our representatives in each house, bought for the price of a campaign contribution. Now I want to say how tickled I will be when I hear a large group of protesters chanting, “Can ‘ya hear us now!” Onward and upward, OWS, and don’t look back. This is the right thing and its time has come.
Exactly right. Two big and obvious lies that, when joined together, make regular people irrelevant to the political process.
yes, this was my take also
“Do you like living?” seems like more of an example of deliberately baiting than what I posted. And for me, “sensible” might mean picking your battles and trying to leverage and tap into the energy of the worldwide protests that are being waged against neoliberal austerity.
To what degree do the protests in the ME & Europe include global warming hand-wringing?
This is a pivotal momment in which it seems that, at long last, there’s a minute hope that Americans might start developing some class consciousness. Save the environmental lecturing and group hugs for later.
Just a general observation-I find these threads that “nest” comments make the discussion difficult to follow, for no observable rational benefit.
It would be nice if there was just one goal, but that is exactly the approach that hasn’t worked for a long time, politicians are have been proving that most recently as this summer. Tar sands is a clarifying moment and it must be understood for what it is.
Peace and congradulations, people are making choices to stand up for themselves like never before, most never thought that they would need to.
If you can’t comprehend the fact that the OWS protests are against corporate control of the government, as exemplified by the XL Pipeline of Death fiasco, then you don’t understand what the 99% are about. The destruction of our environment imperils the quality of life for everyone on Earth, and every time there is an “accident” that imperils the environment it takes decades to undue the harm, i.e. BP/Gulf of Mexico.
Agreed. McKibben has already been a victim of Obama’s duplicity, in re the empty promise to install solar panels on the White House.
As I see it, everything is so connected that there are as few or many aspects of this governmental horror show as any one person can focus on… as they are up for. It is inclusive because every aspect is part of each other one. A Gestalt, if you will.
This is not Issue oriented, it is a general repudiation of the entire system. Issue by issue. It is a Revolution. This is not something that can work with and within the existing government and financial system. There is no give and take here. It is all or nothing… and if nothing, it will be pure 21st century Facism.
And, of course, it is something completely NEW. Its nothing like the old protest movements of the 60-70s. Its driving the MSM and Establishment stark raving crazy that it is not on their terms. They cant get a handle on it because if it had a handy handle, they could focus on something to attack and destroy. They are trying to catch the ocean in a net.
All is as it should be. Patience and Determination and Time is all we need.
Exactly. “Predator Rats” and “KochRoaches” are perfectly brilliant!
You make the connections. Its a sphere and everything that is wrong is interconnected. A vast network of Greed, etc. And it is worldwide. What is going on, belatedly, in the U.S. is a part of what is going on in the rest of the world.
Some governments are easier to overthrow than others. It will be a long and difficult effort. It may go through many phases. But we have little choice and must act now or never.
More like Evil Twin ?
There is an Occupy D.C. in place now..that is a good start for the ring around the W H.
They will now.
They will now.
sorry my reply went down a bit. here.
We were told a while back that it was a $$ thing. Anyone know for sure?If it is $$ thing, I’ll donate what I can. Won’t be much, but every little bit helps.
Remember “Horton Hears A Who” ?
NOBODY owns OWS. There is no designated spokesman or manifesto one must sign. One group of protesters trying to marginalize another with convergent interests is silly and divisive.
I am a white guy who marched for civil rights and against the Vietnam war. The war was a civil rights issue, MLK said so. A disproportionate number of blacks were being drafted and killed by the war machine. Those movements also gave support to the environmental and woman’s movements. Oppression of the lower classes by the rich was the issue then and it is the issue now.
I consider the tar sands corruption and Wall Street corruption to be manifestations of the same issue – as do many involved with both protests. There will be other issues just as important that emboldened activists take on as this revolution proceeds, just as we civil rights/antiwar activists promoted woman’s rights and the cause of the environment. As awareness of the Fukishima disaster and the fact that is is not only ongoing. but getting worse and that the Obama administration is suppressing the truth so it can build more nuclear plants grows, I expect that to be added to the agenda. All these issues are about the oligarchy making decisions that affect us all without our input and covering up the negative results of those decisions with censorship (Obama stopped EPA radiation monitoring when the Fukishima radiation plume headed for the US and still supports relicensing of old, dangerous plants and construction of new ones).
There are hundreds – if not thousands – of such issues. They all deserve attention – and will get it from people who come to recognize each other as they support convergent protests.
Ever heard of the YIPPIES and the levitation of the Pentagon?
I think you are missing the point. It’s a joke, sort of – but with a barb.
DING, DING, DING! We have a winnah!
It’s all the same thing, can’t you see?
Right. There is a pattern of oligarchic governmental corruption and economic/environmental destruction that will become increasingly apparent as these issues are highlighted and the movements to oppose them build on each other’s strength.
OWS in New York and elsewhere have already branched off in support of “side issues,” like preventing an old woman from getting tossed out of her house on the west coast. There will be more of that.
Plenty of OWS protesters will already be in DC when they “exorcise the White House” and I am sure plenty of them will be more than happy to join in that effort. That will only strengthen both groups.
Yes.
If he and Hillary/Billy Boy get this passed, they are all toast. There will be NO difference between the parties!
http://www.realitysandwich.com/occupy_wall_street_no_demand_big_enough
“We could make lists of demands for new public policies: tax the wealthy, raise the minimum wage, protect the environment, end the wars, regulate the banks. While we know these are positive steps, they aren’t quite what motivated people to occupy Wall Street. What needs attention is something deeper: the power structures, ideologies, and institutions that prevented these steps from being taken years ago; indeed, that made these steps even necessary. Our leaders are beholden to impersonal forces, such as that of money, that compel them to do what no sane human being would choose. Disconnected from the actual effects of their policies, they live in a world of insincerity and pretense. It is time to bring a countervailing force to bear, and not just a force but a call. Our message is, “Stop pretending. You know what to do. Start doing it.” Occupy Wall Street is about exposing the truth. We can trust its power. When a policeman pepper sprays helpless women, we don’t beat him up and scare him into not doing it again; we show the world. Much worse than pepper spray is being perpetrated on our planet in service of money. Let us allow nothing happening on earth to be hidden. ”
Their agenda is bigger than one or two or ten issues, but rather that which has led to our nation facing so many apparently, unrelated, and “too big to solve” issues.
Exactly right, grumps. OWS is under threat of co-option and doesn’t even seem to realize it – or care. It is interesting indeed that this self-described “social, non-political movement” immediately embraced Big Labor when they came along for the ride in NY two weeks ago.
Are we really naive enough to think the Dems and Big Labor have not been not just hoping for a movement of their own to co-opt, as the Koch;s did with the Tea Party?
Somebody needs to get #Occupy on the record, and ask them straight up: Do you or do you not see that Barack Obama and the Democrats are part of the problem?
McKibben is too smart to believe that the Obama we’ve seen in action for the past three years is going to suddenly shed his corporatist bent if re-elected, and anybody who doesn’t see that OWS is ripe for co-option on the DNC’s behalf (if indeed it hasn’t happened already) is fooling themselves.
Please go back to New Zealand as soon as possible, Bill. (It’ll be summer soon – nice!) They’re currently facing an Exxon Valdez scenario in the Bay of Plenty, NZ’s Gulf of Mexico – putting Corexit into the situation, for crying out loud. And deep sea drilling is next on the horizon – good grief! All I can hope is we get a Kiwi Summer after the American Autumn.
As to the folk carping that this isn’t an “occupy” issue (and I agree, the General Assembly can handle it) or that Mr. McKibben is ‘too wimpy’ – what was wimpy about his getting arrested on the issue? To my mind his stand along with some from this forum was the Tunisia to OWS’s Egypt. We owe him!
tongo, I meant what I said, don’t get your panties all twisted.
It’s the same fight. And who is offering to hug or lecture you? I’m interested in neither.
I would however ask people like you questions. How is it not the same fight? Do you really think that Wall Street and the other grotesquely wealth hoarding elites are stopping with stealing just your jobs, your place in the middle class? If you can’t answer that with at least a simple IDK, then fine, join the numbers but don’t pigeonhole anyone.
The times are shaping up to be a bigger grudge match than simply jobs or whatever you mean by class consciousness. Want to draw an artificial border on the dialogue or issues that need addressing on this go round? Think that all these things aren’t related?
You’re right, it’s too confusing for people who think like you, must simplify. The people who can actually grab hold of something a lil larger, I say go right the f-ck ahead and let the naysayers get out of the way.
Any wonder that msm wants to narrow the focus of the movement and get a list of demands, that sort of thing? Sometimes it’s hard to tell whether people are actually thinking or simply reacting. Maybe you have had time to think. Maybe you haven’t. I guess you can participate in OWS however you choose and narrow your focus to whatever you like.
Just to be clear, anyone who thinks climate change is some kind of hoax is a moron. Yes, I do mean that. Maybe you don’t, but you sound like one of the backwards yellow bellied knuckle dragging deniers with the hugging and lecturing comment.