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Right now the question would have to be: what exactly is the USA?
The people?
The system?
The economy?
Whose economy?
What exactly is the USA?
This is really important in America’s case, more so than in other countries, because “American” isn’t an ethnic group or a religion or even a language and shared history; people move around a lot and are not deeply rooted and to top it off the family structure isn’t very strong. All of these factors are what normally make up a “nationality”. So the question, “what exactly is the USA” is something every new generation of Americans has to answer… and I believe it is getting more difficult.
When, back in the 50s “Engine Charley” Wilson enunciated his famous formula: “what is good for General Motors is good for the USA and vice versa”, he was probably right, or it least the phase made some sense at that time. Today, could you say something like that about General Motors or substitute any other American corporation’s name for GM’s? Would it still make any sense? Try it with “Goldman Sachs”.
Right now, we are looking at the possibility that the economy may “recover”, but that its “recovery” will not mean any jobs. So we have to go back to the original question, The people? The system? The economy? Whose economy? What exactly is the USA?
I think that the difficulty in answering this question, “what exactly is the USA”, is what makes the situation much more worrisome today than the crisis of the 70s or even the 1930s.
51 Comments
A carnivore turned self-cannibal?
Run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes.
They are saluting.
“Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”
-Albert Einstein
More like smallpox than measles
A predatory settler state turned predatory hegemonic state. Now in decline, and the subject of a hilariously bitchy aphorism by Clemenceau.
mfi
I’m afraid it’s more complicated than that.
The real bitch would be Hans Bendix’s aunt.
No. Get out!
No it’s not.
mfi
Actually being an American is one of the most complicated identities in the world, unless you define us simply as a lot of fat people out shopping.
Ah. So what exactly is an American?
Amerika is a very dangerous juvenile with many very dangerous toys and little adult supervision.
You’re just the guy to be correcting Einstein. Ballsy.
Nope, ‘fraid not, some things really are that simple. It’s a settler state turned hegemonic state one moreover that is now in decline. A fat peasantry is I grant you historically unusual.
mfi
Einstein said that God didn’t play dice with the universe. Hinduism says that in fact the universe is God’s playground and he sports himself in it like a child in a toy store
Bullshit. It’s much more complicated than that. Watch and learn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY3eYWtAUso&feature=fvst
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-E4bvrA1U&feature=related
Heh. The only people, IMHO, who would argue that ‘it’s more complicated than that’ are Americans. We’re a bunch of self-important assholes, the lot of us.
markfromireland has it right, I’m afraid. Set aside your ego or pride or nationalism or whatever-the-hell you want to call it and examine the facts from a dispassionate standpoint.
Ha ha! You’re hilarious, David.
Oh, and this Irish chick does American music better than most Americans. That babe can swing, daddy-o.
David – read this.
10 Things Americans Don’t Know About America.
Might give you a slightly different perspective.
I hadn’t realised that this posting was a wankfest for your ego. Sorry.
mfi
But surely you knew there was a punchline coming.
How is Spain treating you, comrade Seaton?
The answer to that question depends on whether or not you’re predator or prey.
You mean the predator won’t give you the truth.
No. Neither you nor MarkfromIreland has it right.
I just spent the last 4 months working in a major bay area hospital with colleagues from Russia, Iran, Iraq, the Phillipines, Bolivia, North Carolina, Poland, Singapore, India, Mexico, El Salvadore, Hungary and Kazakhstan. And that was just in MY relatively small department. The range of life experiences and political positions of these people was vast, complex and impossible to classify as merely cogs in some hegemonistic machine. They are the faces of the USA today and deserve to be considered in any question touching on the aims and purposes of a nationality. I found myself asking exactly the same question that David Seaton poses here.
The usual, boringly predictable and tediously facile answer is the one you guys proffer: All America is nothing more than (pick your cliche’) rapacious capitalists, hegemonistic militarists, doltish fat people, wild-eyed self- certain religionists. Whatever. I defy either of you to spend any time in some of these institutions I have had the good fortune to work in recently, and come to these simplistic conclusions.
Get out a little bit more, Tex and Mark. Move beyond the rigid outlook that your ideological blinders have imposed on you.
I work with Indian, Chinese, Brazilian, Korean, Canadian, British, Saudi, Australian, and South African nationals all. fucking. day. Extensively. For 10-12 hours a day some days. I have for over 2 years. I didn’t realize that was a credential that needed flaunting. Thanks for opening my eyes and pulling my ‘ideological blinders’ off.
Before you try to pigeonhole me think about how the rest of the world views us. Our identity is not the many faces of America. It’s how we treat our friends and neighbors abroad. We don’t get to define who we are in some infantile blog posting. Our nation’s actions define us to our fellow humans. Our nation’s actions have been a decades long campaign of raping resources, nations, races, and oceans. The rest of the world doesn’t give a flying fuck about us, for the most part. We’ve become largely irrelevant, except to the folks we give money to and the folks we invade. American has been written off as a country of war-mongering morons.
I understand the cultural make up and political ideology of America today is vast and varied. The people, your colleagues and mine, have no say in the process so the ideology and culture has no place in the conversation.
As long as the moneyed elites and the war-mongers rule our country and are in charge of our interactions with other nations, other nations will continue to see us as moneyed elites and war-mongers. See, for example, tomato and shoe throwing at Hillary in Egypt last week.
I’m done being tedious and facile now.
Back to your regularly scheduled bullshit.
An unremarkable Oligarchy.
I know I know! raises hand
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1021959/43484625#c89 bottom
(I think I snagged it from TocqueDeville before Kos banned him)
But not impossible to classify as cogs in the hegemonster. What do they think about that?
Then you would know that the good shepherd is really a wolf.
Yessa, he sure do talk good. 8}
Some actors became better actors after they became politicians, and some politicians became better actors as a result of being politicians.
ZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzzzz . . . . same old stuff . . . . bitch, bitch, bitch. Try to read again the question posed by Seaton. What is the USA? It’s a wide aperture question. If we are going to narrow the discussion to a nation’s real and apparent geopolitical aims then I guess you are right. I could level a scathing critique of the country’s corrupt and power hungry elite along with the best of them. I’ll bet Seaton could as well. Big Deal. Who Can’t? But in contemporary America, a much more interesting reading of the question asks who makes up the population, are they unite-able and to what ends? What do they bring to the table of economic progress and social advancement? Can they infuse fresh ideas and new blood to the national matrix or do we risk importing destructive ancient rivalries?
I guess it all comes down to how you read the question posed. As another opportunity to recite tired old complaints about how f’d up the country is, or a chance to assess where we stand at this critical time in human history.
The key word I used was merely. We are all cogs in the big machine – all peoples and all nationalities. But that isn’t all we are.
I think the question posed asks more than the usual off the shelf answer(s).
So, comrade, what do they think?
And theater is where we should find the political truth:
Macheath “the Knife”
…Indian, Chinese, Brazilian, Korean, Canadian, British, Saudi, Australian, and South African nationals…
*heh* I won’t even begin to describe the diversity here, Kris…! However, it is possible that all that ethnicity could be found in one individual alone…! ;-)
In regards to our overweight peasantry, I blame it on Monsanto, Cargill, ConAgra, Kraft, etc…! 8-(
Well, that America is a giant hegemenostic predatory power! Lol! (Everybody know that!)
I guess my take away was that most of them are too busy with their families and careers to spend much time examining existentialist questions about America. Some, who came from oppressive regimes thought my concerns about the USA surveillance state were rather quaint. Others understood perfectly well and considered us in the relatively early stages of fascism, but were resigned to it. You know, that’s” just the way of the world. ”
The 3rd worlders were pretty glad for the opportunities the USA offered but many had relatives in other countries and they were actually doing better and they were considering moving there.
I got a peak into the world of arranged marriages and was amazed to discover the lack of resentment over it that I expected. The women I talked to thought it was just fine and were glad to have avoided all the rigamarole that westerners go through in the process of partnering up.
The Russians I dealt with were particularly good at computers, not sure why.
One thing I can say. They all had good jobs and were intent on having a good time and considered themselves fortunate. Did they consider themselves American? Somewhat yes, somewhat no. But their kids sure did. I even skateboarded with one of them and I’m almost 60. Man it was a lot of fun. Hope I can head back there again soon. Thanks for asking.
Amerikka! Were a lesser evil hegemonstrosity!
“They considered themselves fortunate.” Makes a great epitaph.
What ideological blinders? be specific.
mfi
Ol’ Doc Thompson nailed the answer to this question years ago:
“We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the world; a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum and that is how history will remember us.”
RIP, big guy. You knew the game better than the players ever will.
Try blaming it on their gluttony and you’ll be a lot closer to the mark. Monsanto, Cargill, ConAgra, Kraft, etc… aid, abet, and encourage that gluttony but that’s all they do. The glutton’s greed and refusal to engage in anything other than self-indlugence has to exist first and does.
mfi
A devastatingly succinct summary. Thanks for posting it.
mfi
O dear. Commenter has no idea what’s coming.
GDC707
At least there is one adult in the room.
If what you say is accurate – that this diverse and talented group of people acknowledge that this is a “giant hegemonistic predatory power” and see as their options grabbing a piece of the pie, acquiescing in a descent into fascism, or leaving – doesn’t this confirm what markfromireland and KrisAinTX said?
Yes it does but it’s far more important for Seaton and GDC707 to be able to ummmmmm “massage” their sense of exceptionalism. (Then people wonder why what passes for “progressive” or “left” has a long long record of miserable and abject political failure).
mfi
Yes but we’re only visiting. do everyone a favour and encase the text of any future postings by you along these lines in the following descriptive tags:
<wankfest> Your text here </wankfest>
TIA for your cooperation and consideration.
mfi
Mr. Seaton–
Okay, now I get it. Qualifying as “the adult in the room” means demonstrating the ability to present simplistic homilies. Thanks for the clarification. :-)
Seriously, I am disappointed that, at such a critical time, you choose to opine about a purely rhetorical question. (Which is your right, of course.)
I hope that you and your commenters, will take a moment to view the link that I’ve provided below. This is the video of the July 17th kickoff of the “Campaign to Fix the Debt,” headed up by former Democratic Governor Big Eddie “We Can Do Bowles-Simpson” Rendell. I respectfully request that you consider putting your considerable writing skills to use, by addressing the topic of “the decimation of the social safety net in the US.” (It is my observation that you have quite a following, here.)
Thank you for this diary, and for the opportunity to comment.
Kickoff of “The Campaign to Fix the Debt,” (CFRB) July 17, 2012
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/ReductionCa
Mad As Hell