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The demographic shift evident in the last election and the growing estrangement of the aspirational middle class from the super rich and a general disenchantment with the “conservative revolution” is offering the president-elect some interesting opportunities. However it is still going to be a hard slog, lowdown and dirty. The question now is, can Obama fight?
The slow implosion of the Republican Party — along with the growing strength of a Democratic coalition dominated by low-to-middle-income voters — threatens the power of the corporate establishment and will force big business to find new ways to reassert control of the policy-making process.(…) Although the stars are lined up in favor of the anti-corporate left, American business, when its back is to the wall, has historically proved to be extraordinarily resourceful. Thomas B. Edsall – New York Times
There is a new playing field… Will the real Obama (if there is one) please stand up? In the next few months we are going to discover whether Obama is one the longest headed, devious, cold blooded politicians to ever sit in the White House or just an empty suit. Everything he has done in politics appears to have been programed to peak at this very moment.
It seems to me that since getting elected in 2008 Obama simply tried to do everything he could to get reelected and do nothing that might prevent him from getting reelected. That defines his first four years.
He followed the plan he describes in his biography, one he developed as a lone young black man surrounded by white people, which was to “be courteous, smile a lot and don’t make any sudden moves”… It worked.
Whatever Obama may really be we will see from now on.
Taking on the gun lobby will be the real test of his mettle, if he dares to go to the mat with that monster and wins, we will be looking at a serious president, and that could be extrapolated to other areas. All other adversaries will be intimidated if he humbles the NRA. If he fudges on that he will begin to look vulnerable, even a bit lame duckish. This is to be or not to be.
What does he want to do?
It seems to me that by nominating Kerry and especially Hagel, that he wants to downsize America’s military micromanagement of the world’s affairs, which should have been done when the USSR collapsed (perhaps sooner) and use the resources thus saved on strengthening America’s infrastructure and welfare state.
I think he will continue to be a huge disappointment on human rights. It seems impossible to close Guantanamo Bay prison since there is no place to send its inmates. Obama’s solution seems to have been to simply take no more prisoners and kill all of them directly where they live. So I imagine he will continue with the drones because they are a very cost effective way of intimidating far away poor people without putting boots on the ground and dispatching carrier battle groups. That simple, that cold.
If he wants to be remembered for anything besides having been the first African-American president though, he is going to have to hit the ground running.
107 Comments
Please no personal attacks on MyFDL. You MAY debate others views, you may NOT insult other posters. -MyFDL Editor
Say, can you tell us how’re things going in Spain? You know, something there’s no money in?
I’m really eager to learn about O’Bummer’s neocon nationality. Can you whisper a few lies about that and we’ll see if we can decode anything of use.
Ludwig, I’m waiting for you to write a piece, so I could comment on it.
“… the stars are lined up in favor of the anti-corporate left,…”
Who the hell might that be, the Green Party?
The gun lobby? Sorry, that’s way down on my list of priorities, right down with a lot of other social issues that are used by the Aristocracy of Capital to divide and rule the rest of us.
Kerry? Hagel? Both competent stewards of the Empire, as opposed to some of Obama’s predecessor’s incompetent ones, but imperialist nonetheless.
I agree with you on human rights. But there’s no doubt what Obama is. He’s proven by the preponderance of the evidence, at least, that he’s a fascist by Mussolini’s definition, and you know that definition as well as I, so I won’t bother to repeat it.
Funny. You always have words, yet say nothing. Get it?
Senor Seaton seems to consider the Democratic Party the anti-corporate left, or at least closer to it than the evil R-Team. He’s in friggin’ SPAIN; he should know better than that. Of course, he is perfectly capable of stating why he thinks my description is incorrect.
Pot. Kettle. Get it?
Heeeey, Barb…;))) Get it? Who asked you?
I don’t need to be asked. You posted on the Internet. Anyone can play.
Oooooh, Noooo…the silly Comrade word.
“I think he will continue to be a huge disappointment on human rights.”
Nice of you to qualify your support.
The Democrat Party is wholly corporatist. However, loyalists will be loyal and the rest here will mock.
LENIN
That worked well. Civil war for 5 years and over 10,000,000 died.
Followed by the kind and gentle rule of Stalin.
Is this what you believe leads to some form of utopia? Please, feel free to elucidate. Describe you visions in full. Give us the bebefit of your wisdom. (I shall not hold my breath).
Who are you talking to? Surely not David Seaton. He’s certainly no Leninist. In fact, who even mentioned Lenin?
I admit confusion.
Well, today the president signed a law (which, incidentally, can be credited to Trey Gowdy, a Republican rep from South Carolina) granting himself and his illustrious predecessor–and their wives–lifetime Secret Service protection. So, clearly, he’s headed in the right direction and I’m sure he’ll take Social Security and Medicare off the chopping block real soon. Snicker, titter.
Ludwig brought up Lenin in a comment that was deleted. As a matter of fact, based on the results of clicking on his user name, it looks like Ludwig himself was deleted.
Whatever he said, I wonder if it was worse than this:
http://firedoglake.com/2013/01/05/late-night-the-tide-keeps-on-turning/#comment-2582964
I was replying to Ludwig.
It appears Ludwig has been terminated.
Well, shoot fire; I was starting to understand his comments, and kinda enjoy them.
Thanks for bringing evidence of two-tiered moderation, though. How many flags does it take?
Or the insulting amateurish ravings of Praise TBoww! But remember, you have to watch out for both the unseen and the unbidden biddies around here.
I find this diary totally confusing. Hit the ground running? Makes it sound as though we haven’t had four years of Bush III and especially in the month after the election tactics that would make any mafia boss proud.
If (and I do say if) Ludwig went beyond the bounds of propriety, may I say I believe there was reason to do so.
This is very shoddy stuff.
Obama is a fraud.
Everything else is noise.
I made this comment on another site to a diary of much the same subject as this:
The only way any of this is going to being resolved is through the complete elimination of the capitalistic system we have now.
This will only happen after millions of people lose their lives. I see the coming of a third world war. It may initially be fought with nuclear weapons. But this will be very short lived. The rest of the fighting will be of a brutal and barbaric nature.
For it’s is not only the elites you personally benefit from this system but also those who will hang onto it for ideological reasons and those who benefit from it indirectly who will be loath to let go of it peacefully.
And Obama certainly is not the person to bring about any change. He is far too bound up in the current system to change any of it.
You’re just pissing in the wind.
Yet these diaries are always recommended, even though at least half the comments on them seem to be in sneering opposition. Or beyond sneering, I guess, if you include whatever it was that Ludwig said.
It depresses the hell out of me that so many diaries here are of the navel contemplation variety: what will Obama do now? And this made me laugh out loud:
There are so many things wrong with that statement, beginning with the very idea that the NRA could be “humbled.” Or that Joe Biden’s round of photo ops while another school shooting was happening today was anything more than a distraction while the oligarchy continues to dismantle the country, unimpeded.
Whatever the rules are, apparently it’s OK for some people to call someone else a lying piece of shit and to tell them to fuck off.
Yes, it seems.
Apparently Kelly is quite cozy with some people at FDL as he can get any damn thing he wants.
Nice work if you can get it.
Is that an example of crony commentalism?
It appears to be so, timesthree. When I periodically run into folks who are no longer here, and encourage them to come back, they often mention happenings like this as their reason for departing. Kinda like self-banning.
I can only remember flagging one comment since I’ve been here, and it was an ugly, sexist comment about Jane Hamsher.
Sorry; I’d meant ‘when I run into them at other blogsites’; not in the street or somethin’.
LOL…I love it.
You know what they say: moderation recapitulates
Watch your back dude! :)
Reminds me of when I told Ludwig two days ago: “Ideological tenets don’t pay the rent!” He didn’t appreciate the humor, (if he caught it.)
Prolly just reckoned you were a crap speller. ;o)
Ideological tenets ? Are those line circus tenets but not as big ?
Just wanted to weigh in on this since elisemattu writes consistently good stuff, based on what I’ve seen, and befriended me soon after I started posting at FDL. Who is Kelly, exactly, and what does he do here other than engage in childish hectoring? That post absolutely should have been deleted.
I witnessed Canfield stalk one of the fine diarists here for a while. It got to the point that he was moderated, but as you can see, he wasn’t banned. Maybe elisemattu is his next target.
We’ll see how he likes a taste of his own medicine. I’ll be on the lookout for him.
Make sure you read the TOS and follow the Ground Rules. I doubt they will be as patient with you.
I understand the risk, but I’ve let TBogg have it with both barrels more than once–and boy, was he asking for it. If screeching, bullying assholes aren’t getting banned when they attack people who have no trouble carrying on a civil discussion, there’s a serious problem that needs to be confronted.
TBogg makes Beavis look like an intellectual. But he’s a blogger on the front page and not the same fdl species as you and I are as plain vanila users. Being an asshole is part of his shtick and he does it to get traffic. I think it’s understood that he’ll get shit shoveled back at him.
Not being 100% sure what you meant as far as Canfield was concerned, I was being cautious and urging caution in the process. Maybe a better way of putting it would be this: Let him throw the first punch either at you or a friend and then let him have it with all barrels, following the TOS, of course :)
There is a new playing field… Will the real Obama (if there is one) please stand up? In the next few months we are going to discover whether Obama is one the longest headed, devious, cold blooded politicians to ever sit in the White House or just an empty suit.
Talk about grasping at straws.
This question was asked and answered c. 2008-2009.
I have often (since before he got elected in 2008) thought that Obama was a fraud and a bluff. Now I am having a second look. I think it may be possible that he is extraordinarily devious. As to his aims? Nothing more radical than a change back to an Eisenhower-Johnson mix, a turning back the clock to before the “Reagan revolution”… But that would be some change if it happened and totally “believable”.
As to old style revolutions… America is designed to be “revolution proof” in the traditional sense and the capitalistic system is not going to be eliminated anytime soon unless it eliminates itself.
What can change profoundly in America is opinion and the way of looking at people and problems… I always come back to Civil Rights and here I include gays and lesbian rights. The changes here have been enormous. In this sense the country today would unrecognizable for someone who stepped out of a time machine from the 1950s.
No. I do not think it will have anything to do with that. There will not be a “revolution” in the political or even economic sense. Never though so.
But there will be a violent episode. Count on it. Triggered by some other ideological event.
Think about it. One of the most violent eras in this country’s history had to do with alcohol.
I think what will cause the capitalistic system as we know it to fail and be replaced in a foreseeable future is that the need for people will disappear due to technological developments such as artificial intelligence, but people themselves wont “disappear”… at that moment we will move into the next historical phase, whether violently or not, I haven’t the slightest idea.
Here is a chart that highlights the trend: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-corporate-profits-personal-wages-2013-1
Oh, I always let the other guy throw the first punch…and then he’s fair game :) Even with TBogg, I’ve never gone to his column and sought him out; I’ve only responded when I’ve seen him shouting, cursing and generally attempting to discourage discussion on various threads.
Yeah, the Boggler can be a real pompous nitwit when he attempts to scatter his droppings in other people’s threads. Here lately, the word “fascist” seems to makes him pee in his pants. He deserves whatever he gets.
Anyway, you seem like a simpatico guy, glad to meet ya :)
Nice to meet you, too!
(sings in pleasing light baritone)
Thanks….we needed that. Sorry for whatever caused so much rancor, and I certainly do not know what caused Lud. to be so unpleasant. We needed a little tune; thank you.
All the evidence — it couldn’t be more glaring since the election — so far is that Obama wants to significantly, painfully cut expenditures on the welfare state. Where do you pull the notion that he wants to spend money on the welfare state? Bizarre.
It’s unfortunate if Ludwig was banned, rather than just comment moderated, for a little rudeness. I’m among those who didn’t understand most of what he said, but others were able to bring out the substance when engaging him, as in last night’s thread on the platinum coin, which expanded to a broader discussion.
As far as the question posed by this diary: Obama will continue to further the interests of the .01%. Many people’s lives will continue to be harmed as a result of his policies.
(fixed it for you)
The pressure to cut entitlements is intense, because of America’s enormous debt. The only way to expand or even maintain what there is of a welfare state in America is to reduce military expenditure. Hagel’s nomination is significant because he is on record favoring those cuts.
Don’t know about unfortunate…He has been consistent in rudely going after David. Had another very long thread of his snide, hateful attacks which he started immediately again yesterday. So, what is his purpose? I really don’t get it, plus his insisting on calling names, usually Comrade, which is really absurd. I certainly can’t cite a criteria for banning altogether or otherwise. But his stuff got really old.
Which is why I stand by what I said up thread. When it begins to be those who believed their cushy materialistic life styles were nice and safe get hit with the reality that these life styles are in fact not safe, that’s when the situation will begin to come unhinged.
The reasons given will make even less sense than the situation itself. Simply because they always do.
Scared people are just very difficult to deal with.
The pressure to cut entitlements has nothing to do with the debt, it’s just the sales pitch. Are you really trying to push that here?
I agree that people protecting their real or aspirational privilege prevents their ability to understand and confronting the status quo, and their real place in it (dare I say as compradors? :)). We see that on what calls itself the left and the right. But I don’t have enough historical or political knowledge to speculate on how it plays out, particularly whether leadership and/or leaderfull movements can emerge among the less or non-privileged.
Edit: understand and confront
If stuff getting really old were a cause for banning, most of us (including me) would be candidates for banning much of the time. Kind of boring. Easier to skip past the stuff we think is really old IMHO. Also, though Ludwig was annoyingly cryptic, I don’t think “comrade” was name-calling.
Whatever….I guess I consider it name-calling when not wanted/selected by the Callee….just gratutitous….with insolent ring. He was quite insulting to me, but for some Rev is a provocation, as we know.
No, debt has nothing to do with it. Compared to another part of the budget, the military, social expenditures actually help the economy. Besides, there’s this from my “Stopped Clock Right X2/Day File:
“Deficits don’t matter.”
–Dick Cheney
This assault on the pathetic excuse for a welfare state the USA has is all about power and control, not debt. They want slaves, you see. Debt is just an excuse to fool the gullible, who swallow the lie whole by the multitude.
My view of Obama is that of someone who is quite devious, indirect, private, supremely ambitious and that until now he has lived behind a screen. His entire focus being to get elected and then reelected…
There is nothing more that he can be elected to. What then is his reason to live and work today? Just mark time until he can get rich with speaking engagements?
At this point, if he has any desire to be remembered more than Polk or Harrison as a president he will have to do some significant things in the next four years. What could those things be? I don’t think we will have to wait long to find out.
The challenge facing a Democratic president would be to reverse Reagan’s conservative revolution. We’ll see.
The cost of that ‘enormous debt’ — i.e., how much interest we pay on our debt — is at post-WWII lows. So, of course, there is no debt crisis at all and in fact the real crisis is a worldwide flatlining economy caused by pretending there is a debt crisis. Why the pretense: the PTB want to drastically cut back on social welfare.
Reading recent Dean Baker columns would be very helpful for you.
We have an excellent model for Obama, and that is Bill Clinton. Two empty suits serving power. How did Clinton change, if at all, in his second term? He moved closer to Wall Street — recall the wonderful repeal of Glass-Steagal (1998) and the wonderful Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000? — and then literally moved closer to Wall Street after he left the White House. Now he is attempting to secure his fortune and ‘senior statesman’ legacy as Wall Street’s worldwide spokesmodel. I predict very similar from Barack Inc. It’ll be fun watching those two divas fight over spokesmodel jobs!
You could be right, but why would he take on the Israel lobby by nominating Chuck Hagel? Clinton would never have done that… never.
Thanks for staying to engage, David – the mark of a dedicated diarist in my opinion. I wish Ludwig could be here also as perhaps some of us who think better of him could have brought out his wiser remarks, which are admittedly hard to decipher at times.
I wanted to comment on your remark that Obama’s ‘entire focus [is] to get elected and then reelected…’ which you have said several times.
Given a fair electoral opportunity, I don’t believe this would have been the case. Had it been, he would have seen the same numbers he saw for his first election campaign – if the vote count is only minimally corrupted that is. To be popular, to win votes, he only had to do what we put him in office to do. We would have come out in droves for him, and there would have been additional voters as well – so ‘getting elected’ wasn’t his priority. He never tried to do the people’s business, only that of corporations, and the worst of those corporations at that.
However, if ‘getting elected’ now depends on pleasing the mafia yes, your statement is true. And if that is the case, then your description of him lacks one component, which I am happy to supply.
First clue, Obama makes a speech in Chicago right after he has won the election, in which he turns to his daughters and says to them publicly “I love you more than you know.” He puts his whole heart into saying this, and we think warm fuzzy thoughts. But what is he thinking? I put it to you, he is thinking million dollar Clintonian weddings to Wall Street bigshots. And it ain’t over for him until that happens. And it bloody well is that important and that delusional.
And for this a world is being lost.
I think he was totally inexperienced when he came into office, a total amateur that had never even led a Boy Scout troop. The first months he was rolled by the Pentagon on Afghanistan and he made a big effort for the economy not to collapse into a depression. Then he lost the House in 2010 and that made any real initiatives difficult if not impossible. He did withdraw from Iraq and he did scrag bin Laden. Now he has some new political energy. This time people didn’t vote for the “Hopey-Changey thing” the voters repudiated the Tea Party in casting their votes for Obama… if anything, his mandate is to roll back the Tea Party
I really do not get your interest in Lud; he chose to insult David many times over. What’s to decipher?
However a creature of the system Obama may be, he has managed to put a few people’s knickers in a twist:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-the-meaning-of-hagel/2013/01/10/12a37c48-5b5f-11e2-9fa9-5fbdc9530eb9_story.html
Ask Wall Street. They may want a foreign policy that leans just a tiny little bit toward the Gulf dictatorships and a little less toward Apartheid Israel. Balancing the needs of our far right Middle East allies is tough work.
On the other hand, maybe you’re right, and Obama the good guy is finally taking the stage. He wants to help the downtrodden Palestinians, who he’s always had a completely secret thing for … NAAAH.
I think Obama is anti-imperialist… I think he has consciousness of color there, he is certainly no anglophile, nostalgic for any Raj. The first thing he did on entering the White House was to send back the bust of Winston Churchill. Churchill was a racist-imperialist of the first water. I think it is difficult for any person of color to sympathize with today’s Israel.
He causes me to think outside the box.
Thanks….I just found him insulting, so I appreciate the POV.
Thanks for that description. Being considerably less informed than many visiting here about a whole range of issues, I come here to find information and attempt to learn from other opinions and analysis. Trying to decipher a code to attempt to understand someone who appeared to me to be very intelligent and possibly very well informed, who I would have liked to have understood better just was seemingly not going to happen for someone like me.
What I was perceiving was “code,” being used alternately as a shield to deflect unwanted engagement and as a sword to attack those somehow deemed unworthy to engage for having not been clever or intelligent enough to have deciphered the “key.” Speaking in plain language rarely seemed a concern, but then again, someone apparently trying to influence people, imho, would refrain from continual codespeak. These are my feelings and opinions, no other links.
I followed this live yesterday, that’s all I wish to say about that.
… X 2
…X 2 …nicely put point… some needed thee and me in the looking glass then as well …
thank you miIL
I completely disagree. Obama? Anti-imperialist? If that was the case, he would have had all of the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan by now, would not be maintaining imperial outposts such as the one in Djibouti, would not be escalating drone attacks in Pakistan, Yemen, and who knows where else, and would withdraw our forces from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Colombia, and a veritable plethora of other places, one of which is in Rota, Spain.
Perhaps you’ve heard of it.
Obama is about as anti-imperialist as Benjamin Disraeli was.
Therefore, I say “NEE!” to you.
You have a bit of a point, there. However, I think his primary mandate was to raise taxes on those who make more than 250K a year, as he loudly proclaimed in commercials every time we turned on the TV here in Ohio, and he’s already backed away from his “line in the sand” on that one.
If you expect Obama to actually do anything progressive, and apparently you do, I predict disappointment. The best he can do is to pleasantly surprise me.
You might want to take a look at Ludwig’s great contributions on masaccio’s thread, RevBev. I’ve pressed him a bit over time to explain more deeply what in ‘ell he meant by a remark or three, and when he did, I got plenty of understanding. On this thread, he was kinda brilliant, I think, not that I understand the issue all that well.
Yep, he poked a stick or two in Dave’s eye, but some of us have put up with far worse here, by an order of magnitude, and those comments often stand, and the commenters are still here. In fact, I just dud a diary of mine out of the cache for reference, and Dave Seaton himself took great pains to call me out repeatedly over *his* case of a mistaken identity. It happens, and he wasn’t using four-letter words like some here do, nor was he calling me a racist, holocaust denier, tra la la…as some have.
And by the way, ‘comrade’ isn’t a four-letter word, either. It means ‘friend, companion, compadre,, and for communists (which I believe he may be, of some stripe or other), the same.
What you saw as insulting comments, I saw as his quirky brand of humor, and it may not be for everyone, but mine’s kinda offbeat, too.
Some of us see that in these times we’re fightin’ literally for our lives, and the life of the planet, and may be wont to expressing ourselves without heeding parlor room propriety, and a little forebearance for that might be a good thing, imo.
Lost me ( again ) with this comment DS …
Does anyone get banned about doing blatantly obnoxious Big D Tilts? No? … why not?
…hmmmm… I just don’t get it… ;-> ( ok …just joking — I get it/got it )
“Comrade” gets you banned, “Fuck off. You’re a lying piece of shit” is tolerated. It depends on who your friends are.
Nice place.
Thing is, I love the place in so many ways, and appreciate having a place to write. I confess I feel far more comfortable with the more rough-and-tumble, edgier My.FDL, though, where the opinions can be more diverse, if not downright radical. I learn a lot from some diarists and commenters.
And over here, we take it more seriously that ideas and arguments matter, and try to hone our communication skills, which Ludwig was sure starting to do, imo, at the behest of many more than myself, I reckon.
But the two-tiered justice just plain makes me sad. But then, I’m a lying piece of shit and I should fuck off, so…there’s that. ;oP
None of that explains the betrayal on the FISA issue.
It also doesn’t explain why Obama is so eager to
when it comes to war-criminals, and yet do more to persecute whistle blowers than any other president in history.
Obama is simply a scumbag.
There..fixed it for you.
You miss the vital final link: at his core Obama is a profoundly insecure outsider to the American establishment whose supreme desire is to be liked by that establishment and adopted as one of their own. THAT is the wellspring of all his ambition.
And for that reason Obama is not pretending to be a centrist technocrat enthralled by inside the Beltway thinking, he is actually is a centrist technocrat enthralled by inside the Beltway thinking. If he dared think outside the box and challenge any of that thinking he would be cast out as an apostate and all his dreams will have turned to ashes. If he ever had any genuine capacity to challenge the conventional wisdom of the country’s elite it is a part of himself he locked away and forgot about a long time ago, as a mortal danger to all of his ambitions.
The truth has been unfolding before our eyes for over four years. Clinging to denialist fantasies in the face of all evidence is betraying the very ideals you claim to support.
Suck up to power people, it’s our future on every level.
Which, as I said to David earlier, makes Obama very similar to Clinton, whose second term and post-presidency could not have been more slavish to inside the beltway conventional thinking or worse for the people in general. There’s so much evidence that these conventional thinking outsiders trying to get ‘inside’ and then prosper there don’t change into super-progressives, ever.
I really don’t know where David’s fantasies are coming from, but I suppose he represents a very large number of U.S. Democratic Party voters. Which is just sad when you see it in full-grown adults. I recommend a large dose of Oliver Stone’s ‘Untold History of the United States’ among other things.
Agreed. And the really sad part is the timing of Obama’s presidency.
At some other time, a guy whose supreme desire is to be liked by that establishment wouldn’t have done so much damage.
But Obama came in after Bush’s meltdown, and the meltdown of 30 years of trickle-down economics. We had the opportunity for somebody to stand up and explain what and gone wrong and take the country in a better direction. It was an opportunity for a new FDR.
However, Obama will go down in history as the guy who took control on the Titanic as it was headed straight for the ice-berg, and all he could think to do is simply stay the course.
You completely misstate the question, Can Obama Fight?
He’s not fighting, not for the masses, he’s fully owned and operated and supporting and fighting for the corporate fascists who own him, and our country, and all facets of our lives.
Your centrist mendacity is quite, um, annoying in the face of the truths and realities that have all been put forth here at FDL and othe places, for eons.
Obama is a stooge, was a stooge, is a stooge.
Will go down as the worst president ever, in regards to domestic needs, foreign fuckups, and corporate fascist banking protecting and care taking while ignoring we the people’s wants and needs.
Please, yer better n this Seaton.
Yer killin me, Hagel is a racist, misogynist, and Kerry and Hagel are all owned and co opted by AIPAC and the Israeli Lobby, and it’s all war, war sales and war profits from both of them.
Not to mention they both are all in on Patriot Act and domestic spying, support of same, and such.
This flies in the face of all things ever published here at FDL Mr. Seaton.
Yer killin me.
You, again?
Nice to see’s yas.
Cold one? I’m buyin.
Let’s chat and talk shit about misguided and illusionary fantasies.
*G*
In 11 comments, this one became a total clusterphuck.
Geebuz fuckin a people, but a vowel or a clue.
OB, what can I say . . . they is all nuckin phutz.
*G*
Ludwig was elisemathu?
I remain confused.
Fully agreed about Obama.
Also would posit, again, that what IS is completely unsustainable.
I do NOT think nuke war will be the end all, by any means.
I DO believe, our brand of corporate fascism and the global brand of corporate fascism will collapse of its own volition, or from rioting by the masses, or from mama nature’s hands.
But collapse it will, it’s unsustainable, indeed.
Yep, the premises of many pro Dem or Obama diaries, however SEEMINGLY critical them may appear, are all based on false premises to begin with, regarding the Dems, or Obama’s, intent as proven.
I don’t get why, given all WE Firepups know, why anyone would TRY to blow smoke up our skirts and asses.
That one, I fail to get, for sure.
;-)
Hey hey hey hey hey . . . Kelly is fully one of the good guys, let’s get that straight.
And he’s as detailed oriented and with PROOF, as any of the main page folks, or anyone, for that matter.
He’s not the problem, of any sorts, ever.
All y’all are from Koz, aren’t cha. Or paid by Petersen or Koch Brothers, to disrupt FDL in any way, shape or fashion?
N all of a sudden, there’s LOTS of you fuckers dumping on Kelly Canfield . . .
Fuck all of you for that.
This is silly. You and CM are both wrong and here’s why.
When the needs of we the people, the masses, are neglected, trampled and abused, then change occurs. That change has often in history taken many guises.
But the bottom line, is this.
When shit’s unsustainable, and the needs of the masses are not met, shit happens. In OUR times, now we factor in global issues like mama nature.
But rest assured, this corporate fascism that owns the USA, will not last, it’s unsustainable, cuz history tells us it is.
Yeh, that posit is totally without merit on the part of the author.
I don’t get any of this anymore, this thread is full of bullshit.
The comments are whinin and just trying to take down FDL.
I tire of that shit. It’s old, and it’s way too obvious.
Hagel is not ever, ever, go for military cuts, regardless of how many quotes (none so far) you dredge up to try and substantiate that.
He’s totally a corporate fascist hack and a maybe appointee.
I’ll eat my shorts, and YOUR shorts, when he comes out and fights for REAL military cuts abroad.
Yer killin me.
*G*
Or any other number of FDL/MyFDL diaries on the subject(s) at hand.
Nicely done, FL, I’m all with you.
Cuz he did it when it was um, appropriate for him to do so. You won’t hear him doing that now.
Please.
Widickuwus.
He’s as corporate fascist imperialist as Bush’s were, or clinton.
This is just crazy talk Mr. Seaton . . . FDL Kindergarten obviates this kind of posits.
Please.
To each ‘his’ own, said the Old Woman as she kissed the cow…esp re. Kelly. Just an opportunity to repeat the quote;)
Better check yourself, Larue. I won’t hesitate for a second to rip into you, Kelly Canfield, or anyone else who engages in this kind of dumb, shrieking, juvenile bullying. I couldn’t care less about pecking orders and I don’t suffer fools gladly–especially not when they stoop to childishly pathetic accusations of the kind you’ve made.
Don’t like it when somebody calls you and your buddy out on your shit? Then cut the shit instead of trying to deflect blame.
S’funny, because I’ve heard the same thing from the Cult of Barack Obama for four years now. Whatever you do, don’t criticize HIM because HE’S not the problem no matter what.
I think I’ll exercise my own judgment as to who the good guys and bad guys are, but thanks.