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Catchy title huh? Looks like some crap you will find over at dailykos or huffpo.
Thanks to Mr. Alan Maki for providing with me with a shot of inspirational outrage to write this short diary. I just learned that communists are supporting Pres Obama! Lol! As usual his post was informative, accurate, and straight to the point.
Communists supporting Obama? LOL! I guess words really have lost ALL meaning.
A vote for Obama is a vote for his CONservative/NeoLiberal policies. Period.
In addition it puts a stamp of approval on fake liberalism and progressivism and puts a nail in the coffin of any real progressive voices.
I’m not down with that, not now and not ever. I like how folks try to say ‘well Dims lost the
house in 2010′ like that’s an excuse for every sell out and backstab Obama and
the Dims did BEFORE 2010 elections. It takes either an extremely low memory
MoFragger or an extremely disengenuous MoFragger to try and run that nonsense
past the smell test.
When we cast our votes in 2012 we should remember many things, a few key things to remember are:
1. With a DImocratic President, House and Senate these DImocratic ‘public servants’ somehow managed to NOT pass a budget….putting the Rethugs in a power position, just ouitright handing the Rethugs the fear mongering spectacle of the debt ceiling to use as a blunt instrument. This coordinated move allowed the Dims to sellout with ‘digninty’ on issues like the budget, social programs, the Bush/Obama tax cuts etc.
2. The Affordable Care Act, ( You Know; the legislation they used as an additional excuse as to why they couldn’t work on anything else) was a con job and a giveaway to for profit insurance companies from the word go.
3. The new ‘JOBS Act’ passed in a Bipartisany fashion is Gauranteed to bring about the next shakedown of the working class.
I mean really…..I ain’t the smartest man in the world but Damn! What do they have to do? Come and rob me at gun point before I get the message that all they care about is finding a way to take money from me and other working class people and give it to rich folks?
Either vote 3rd party progressive or sit down, shut up and enjoy the screwings you are sure to receive at the hands of the Uniparty corporatists you have voted for.
Fire away!
181 Comments
It conventional wisdom that, if re-elected, Obama would finally be able to implement the policies that he really wants to implement with all re-election worries behind him. My liberal friends, who almost all believe that “Obama’s heart is in the right place” smile at the prospect of such an unfettered Obama.
To me, an unrestricted Obama is one of the most cringe-inducing thoughts imaginable. Neither the GOP nor the public at large forced Obama to authorize the torture of Bradley Manning, to keep Gitmo open, to assassinate Anwar Alaki, and to harass and prosecute whistle-blowers. Obama goes well beyond Ronald Reagan in his contempt for the Constitution and beyond GWB in his pension for secrecy.
“Neither the GOP nor the public at large forced Obama to authorize the torture of Bradley Manning, to keep Gitmo open, to assassinate Anwar Alaki, and to harass and prosecute whistle-blowers. Obama goes well beyond Ronald Reagan in his contempt for the Constitution and beyond GWB in his pension for secrecy”
Thanks for stopping by! Well said, and entirely accurate.
There’s just so much with Pres Obama, I think I’m going to start arbitrarily posting the scandal list anytime I talk about him, just to make sure anyone willing to go to the link gets a clear picture of Obama’s “accomplishments!” Lol! http://obamascandalslist.blogspot.com/2009/10/table-of-contents.html
Jayzus; and Tyner’s the ‘executive vice-chair of the CPUSA. My stars, and he is totally down with the 99% Spring whatever…that’s Van Jones, et.al., a holding pen for those LOTE voters who believe in ‘A Few Good Dems’ doing…something less hideous.
He pretty much frames all of it in respect to blacks, when the sad truth is that O’Bomba has made life worse for them than Bush did, but with some homier dialect in speeches. Feh.
And…where’s his concern for the staggering numbers of black and brown people he’s killing all over the planet with impunity? He was going to be ‘The Education President’, and all that he and Arne have seemed to manage is partnerships in charter schools with asshats like Bill Gates, the Facebook Dude, et.al. Not to mention the unFair Trade deals he’s pushed, thereby robbing more American workers of jobs, screwing the 99% in the nation parties, but whoa, Nellie; making sure that every multinational was represented in the talks.
Good grief, Mr. Tyner; and lovely of you to spotlight the AFL-CIO’s army of Door-knockers for Obama. Wot? Did he promise you EFCA, Mr. Trumka? Take it the bank. Goldman Sachs.
Wigwam, I’m with you.
If Obama gets re-elected, IMO he will move further to the right. If that happens, I’m betting your friends will rationalize it somehow. Some people will cling to their emotional investment in the “good” and “well meaning” Obama until the bitter end.
Me? I could never vote for Obama and the Dem Party that enables him anymore than I could vote Republican. My conscience won’t let me. First Obama and the Dems rehabilitated Bush, then they institutionalized Bush, and now, since then, have gone farther right than Bush could have imagined in all areas from justice for all to the environment to empire.
Obama has done more harm to the country than Bush and it would be utter hypocrisy on my part to turn around and support him.
Lets not forget that just like the GOP’s ideas fake progressive ideas do not work in the real world. Jobs are the biggest issue in America. If we compare Obama and to be fair Bush or even Reagan’s level of job creation and wage growth with FDR a true Liberal then Fake Liberalism and GOP ideas are found wanting.
No more fake Liberalism or voting for the lesser evil. We must risk destroying the Democratic Party and prepare for revolt.
I do admit Obama will likely be reelected but thats only because his opposition has even worse ideas, no skills presenting those ideas and their ideas are even less popular with the voters than Obama’s ideas.
Still Obama’s ideas on bank reform for example make the possibility of an other bank crisis a question of when not if.
Obama doing nothing on Global Warming will effect crops.
Obama pushing nuclear power even as he tries to cut government regulation of nuke plants is a disaster waiting to happen.
I could go on for hours but I’ll stop here.
Thanks for the diary, SenatorGovernment.
Recommended.
Good diary but it’s important to make clear that it is this one communist group, Communist Party USA, that has endorsed him. It makes no sense because Obama is a mega-capitalist but apparently the-once proud CPUSA think the Dems are the way forward. They are basically the most conservative “communist” group out there. Just wanted to point this out so folks don’t think all people who consider themselves communists (or even a small fraction) support Obama 2012. From what I can tell CPUSA is the only organization that has endorsed him.
Oh, well. I’m giving up. Obamabots aren’t interested in facts. The only “fact” they know is we must vote for the lesser of two evils. I was told flat out that I was an anarchist and had no solutions and that’s why I had so much time on my hand’s to garden (last I checked I could live w/o Obama, or Romney or any of the other idiots running but not w/o food). Contrast that with those who continue to work in the trenches of OFA and try to make changes from within the (corrupt) system. They are are the true heroes, trying to make a difference against the odds. How can you counter that mentality? Guess what? You can’t.
Its not only the budget it was Healthcare, economic stimulus heck Obama put the GOP in a position of power over pretty much every issue by surrendering preemptively then starting from a position of surrender he has always found a way to give up even more ground.
Obama just wants to get bills passed he does not care if they actually will work to solve the problems they were meant to address heck often they make things worse but Obama claims a win because the GOP ideas are even worse.
Don’t worry–he’ll never be unfettered and he might just lose. He needs parts of the South to win and every single colored person to show-up at the polls. I’m guessing that after 4 years of little to show for their past efforts, a lot of black folk will be staying home this time around. Personally, I will vote locally and against the Senate incumbent in my state of Michigan. I will not be voting for any of the presidential candidates.
By doing so we preserve our Cred with voters when the System fails after Obama is reelected instead of wasting our Cred defending Obama.
We are more free to present our ideas the FDR model and we unlike Obama and the GOP can point out that our ideas actually work better in the Real World than their ideas do.
“It conventional wisdom that, if re-elected, Obama would finally be able to implement the policies that he really wants to implement with all re-election worries behind him.”
Color me unconventional, then. My conventional wisdom is that:
A man with principles will follow them at all times, even if that lessens the odds of re-election. A sworn duty to hundreds of millions of people outweighs concerns about my future job prospects.
If your principles align with those of the majority of voters then acting on them will increase your chances of re-election. If there is no such alignment then you shouldn’t be holding office in the first place.
Obama should call this his “Client List” strategy: be a whore for four years to get a shot at being a good wife for four more.
hope & change
Our ideas are FDR’s ideas tell the Obamabots to compare FDR’s handling of the Great Depression to Obama’s record then ask them do they like high unemployment
A few years ago, I had an ancestral DNA test done. I have one genetic marker for Ashkenazi Jew out of about a thousand but it got triggered when I read this:
OY!
Turns out most of my closest living relatives on my Y-Chromosome side are now living in Iceland; guess that comes from my Norman heritage–they were, after all, Vikings from Norway.
I’m sure my nearest genetic relatives won’t object when I cast my vote for Stewart Alexander of the Socialist Party USA. At least by doing that I won’t shame them.
The Communist Party USA backing Obama? Sounds like they need a purge. Josef Stalin, where are you when we need you?
Highly rec’d, SenatorGovernment!
“The perfect is ever the enemy of the good“. Is a very old saying and a very true one. I just got finished posting a piece about this: http://my.firedoglake.com/seaton/2012/04/13/mitt-romney-severely-stiff/.
Somebody is going to be president of the USA next January It is not a choice between Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi. Barring some totally unforeseen and unforeseeable event it will either be Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. And it is not that Obama is so wonderful, but Mitt Romney is unreachable in his phoniness. The more we see him, hear him and study his record the more of an enigma he appears to be… So sorry all you disappointed lovers of the imaginary Obama, the real one, warts and all is head and shoulders preferable to Mitt Romney.
‘Phony’ is far preferable to ‘criminal in so many ways’, Mr. Seaton. Sell LOTE voting to others, methinks. But thanks for the link to your diary; we might have missed it, otherwise.
Good post. Rec’d.
Christmas in April!
Thanks to ALL for the lively and informative comments!
The problem with your dogged reliance on that saying is that Obama is not “good”.
You lose.
Also, you insist on insisting that we only have two choices, Romney or Obama.
You lose again.
Exactly how is Obama “head and shoulders preferable” to Mitt Romney?
What have you found, studying his record, that would cause you to make this statement?
Are there any comparisons between Mr. Romney’s (actual) record and Mr. Obama’s (actual) record that you might want to share?
A “for instance” might help your case here.
No, thank YOU! And of course, for the funky tune. But it sounded like Ice Cube to me…….was he once a member of “Boogie Down Productions”?
I agree!
I don’t accept that President Obama is ANY better, not one IOTA than Mitt Romney.
In fact, I’ll take bright glaring, crystal clear CONservatism/NeoLiberalism over backdoor CONservatism wrapped in faux liberal/progressive rhetoric any day….clear CONservatism is much easier to mount a resistance against.
I’ve got family members,friends acquaintances etc. many of whom will vote for Obama along the same reasoning you’ve stated in your comment.
Obviously, I am in complete disagreement.
I am convinced that it if progressives/liberals/socialists etc. do not put the so called party of the people in check in the ballot box; then all we do is cosign the corrupt, irresponsible and destructive policies of the current DImocratic party.
Once we’ve made it acceptable for true progressive ideas to be ignored and trampled upon by the very party that claims to represent them then we are left with moderate Rethugs or TeaBaglican Rethugs. And we’ll have only ourselves to blameI have NO intention of letting
I have NO intention of letting that happen; I have EVERY intention of PREVENTING it from happening.
Yeppers; they endorsed Kerry in ’04, wasn’t it? Here are the others running.
No problem!
Actually, it’s KRS-1 he started with Boogie Down Productions then later performed as a solo artist. I’ve always liked him a lot because he has strived to stay positive and teach a little in his songs. Boogie Down Productions along with a bunch of other songs made the song ‘self destruction’ about stopping violence, and I believe some of the proceeds went to some safe community type programs.
x2 Alternate ID! X2!
Well said!
Said much better and clearer than I could have!
Thanks for stopping by.
Believe me, Romney would be even more “criminal” than Obama. All presidents are going to have a sinister side, because the US is now in a very sinister stage of its history. The choice is between two men… I think that after four years, we now we have a fairly clear idea of Barack Obama. He is nothing like the person his former worshipers created in their childish imaginations. However he is infinitely better than his predecessor George W. Bush and I would maintain that Bush Jr. is a rock of moral clarity and rigor compared to Mitt Romney. For me this is a question of a far from perfect, but reasonably competent and human president facing what I consider practically a “creature from outer space” in his incoherence and dissembling.
I am no fan of Obama and the truth is he has done some hideous things. However, to suggest that in general he is worse than Bush2 is stretching the point a bit. NDAA is the greatest threat to freedom the US has ever faced & clearly worse than anything Bush2 ever did. He signed the renewal of the Patriot Act and the bullshit tax cuts, so on that front Bush and Obama are on a par. BUT, lying us into a war with Iraq and the subsequent torture regime has caused so much death & destruction that Obama would be hard pressed to equal or surpass that evil. A preemptive attack on Iran would be a big X in the worst ever sweepstakes. However, he hasn’t done it yet so my vote for worst president of all time is still with Bush and with any luck it will continue to be.
Obama is however, maintaining a close 2nd.
Lol! Indeed! It seems the CONservative/NeoLiberal propaganda apparatus can turn even the evil Red Scourge into shills for the Plutocracy! We most certainly live in interesting times.
Thank you, wendydavis – I knew about Stewart Alexander, but not of the others.
http://my.firedoglake.com/seaton/2012/04/13/mitt-romney-severely-stiff/
And presidents become interesting when they are “freed” from the election cycle. http://my.firedoglake.com/seaton/2012/03/08/netanyahus-target-is-obama-not-iran/
I think Obama is going to do some interesting things in the ME if he gets reelected.
Hey, thanks for sharing that one!
I’m not familiar with either Boogie Down Productions or KRS-1, but I liked what I heard and love the fact that they are message oriented and donated proceeds to a safe house….I’ll be listening to more of them, for sure!
PS – sorry to hijack, once again.
David, I think a good number of people have simply had enough of the ever rightward dragging of the goal posts and the increasing acceptance of corruption, deception, and money over Democracy.
People are starting to ask the question…where does it stop?
A lot of people are answering that question by saying, it stops NOW.
Any discussion of good music is welcome to any of my diary threads!
Though I may secretly flag discussion of musical artists I happen not to like! /s Lol!
My pleasure.
and thanks for your insightful and courageous comments on this thread!
You say it (money over democracy) “stops NOW”… Have you seen any indication that this is happening?
Of course Obama has done criminal things, he is the head of a crumbling empire struggling to maintain its power, we are living in a period of great decadence… My endorsement of him is because I think he has a more intelligent and thoughtful view of what and how to run this crumbling empire that than Mitt Romney does and is less likely to get America into as much trouble as Romney would, if elected.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I’ll keep mine.
Bush was pretty much who you expected him to be. The war in Iraq and just about everything else he did was accomplished with considerable Dem assistance. And with Bush, there was enough push back from some Dems and from “progressive” organizations that a counter-narrative to Bush was kept alive in the public eye.
Obama campaigned on reversing Bush. One elected, he discarded every progressive position he campaigned on. Since then, Dems have rubber-stamped everything he has done and push-back from “progressive” organizations has been virtually nil.
The result is that the country is going in a fascist and rightward direction faster than it ever did under Bush.
What Bush did in Iraq was ghastly, but by legitimizing Bush, and by perpetuating Bush, and by going farther than Bush was ever able to go, Obama has surpassed Bush in terms of evil in my opinion.
David,
If WE don’t push back against the increasing corruption and the continued erosion of Democracy and (what’s worse) the increasing Acceptance of corruption and the continued erosion of Democracy….then WHO will?
At this trajectory; I can see the ‘progressives’ of 50 years from now arguing that the rich should at least be taxed 1/1000th of a percent on all income over a gazillion dollars.
I am NOT going there. I believe the best way NOT to go there is to take a stand NOW.
That’s why I’m voting 3rd party progressive in EVERY race that I had an opportunity to do so. That’s why I’m supporting progressive 3rd parties so that there ARE opportunities to do so. And that’s why I am encouraging anyone who will give me the time of day to do the same.
Right now and for the forseeable future, I see it as the best way out of this mess.
thanks david.
i have always maintained that there is virtually no disagreement amongst the
the commentators on fdl. i appreciate that you are one.
i agree with you that obama is a better choice, even if it’s only that listening to
romney speaking for the next 4-8 years will make me puke. ugh!
barry will win despite the 200 fdl voters who will either not vote or punch the third party candidate.
Obama is EASILY the worst president this country has ever had. Hes corrupt to an extreme. Hes a pathological liar. Hes arrogant beyond belief. Hes also the most right wing. The only way i can understand any “liberal” voting for this tyranical ruler is that they are blithering morons. Its thats simple. If you vote for obama youre a moron. And making up whatever ridiculous excuses about why youre voting for him doesnt change this fact.
I think you have a very idealized view of what the USA is about. Certainly it bears little resemblance to presidential politics. The values you wish to defend, which I strongly endorse, can only be promoted by a citizens movement, similar to the Civil Rights movement of MLK, which changes the system. My view of Obama is a pragmatic one, strictly based on the idea that he is a better man than Romney and one or the other is going to be president in January 2013.
As a sidenote its pointless to even try to argue with people who come up with idiotic excuses why theyre voting for this asshole again. Some of the excuses are just incredible. Like some of the excuses detailed here. The people here must be living on a different planet where obama is a half way decent president rather then on earth.
This is wonderful. The Obamites of 2008 talked just like you, except that if you didn’t worship him then, you were a moron and practically a member of the Klu Klux Klan. I always end up taking shit about Obama, whatever happens.
You say I have a very idealized view, I say you have a delusional view.
You say I can only defend my values by following your self-serving and intentionally limited course of action. I say I will defend my values based on how i see fit.
You say your view is pragmatic, I say your view is based on your own wishful thinking.
What does Netanyahoo and Israel have to do with your point? Your link seems to be a non-answer to my question. Maybe I’m being dense here, but you stated that you had studied the records of Obama and Romney and that Obama was “head and shoulders” above Romney, “warts and all.”
I asked you for a “for instance.” I don’t see one in this reply. What I’m seeing here is more of a your taking it on faith that Obama is better than Romney just because he has a “D” after his name. I just don’t see it that way.
Besides, as I see it, the election cycle never really ends. Or maybe I should call it the “Presidential life cycle.” You know, get elected President, pay off the people who paid for your campaign, get more campaign contributions from them, get re-elected, then retire and go into the lucrative paid speaker market. Then, in a few years, your wife or your kids get to run for office, too!
This doesn’t sound like a democracy to me, more like an aristocracy. How does Obama not fit into that model, Mr Seaton?
The problem that staunch dems have right now is theyve painted themselves into a corner. They know how awful obama and the democrats have become. But becuase theyre stuck in this two party idealogy they have no choice but to support them. So they come up with these bizarre explanations why. Its actually very similiar to how a battered and abused person talks when they talk about how the person abusing them says they love them and thats why they stay.
Some of us as you say dont buy into that world view. Also some of us believe this country deserves better then the current tyrants that are ruling it from either party.
I think america has created its own melding of aristocracy oligarchy corporatism fascism and theocracy with libertarianism thrown in for good measure. The one thing we are most definitely NOT in any way shape or form is a democracy.
George W. Bush? A “rock of moral clarity and rigor compared to Mitt Romney?” WTF? George W. Bush was the epitome of a lying sack of shit. He even laughed about it. Remember him looking under his chair and saying, “Well, no weapons of mass destruction under here, heh heh heh!” after it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Saddam Hussein had no such things?
Does someone PAY you to spout this nonsense, or are you in need of professional help? Come ON, you’re not normally THIS pathetic.
Answering everybody. Yes, I know that they are all awful, that everything stinks… And I’ve known it for years, unlike some others, who seemed to have been “born” in 2008. However, there is going to be a presidential election in 2008 and wheter we like it or not, one of these two sorry-assed characters is going to get his hands on the atomic bomb, and personally, I’d feel better if it were Barack Obama and not Mr. Etch a Sketch.
No disagreement among FDL commentators? You must not be here much, Obamabot. Why don’t you go back to DU where you belong?
Ya its become pretty obvious hes an obamabot. I wonder if they just have automated software that goes to sites and spews this idiotic garbage with the idea that people will buy into it.
I’ll feel better knowing I didn’t support either one of them.
And if Romney wins, I’ll have a lot of fun watching the Dems and “progressive” organizations try to figure how to once again oppose right-wing, fascist policies without looking like the total hypocrites they are.
AlternateID said it perfectly:
My shorter version: You’re full of shit. Full-on Obot apologist.
“I am no fan of Obama and the truth is he has done some hideous things. However, to suggest that in general he is worse than Bush2 is stretching the point a bit.”
Well, no, not if you look at specifics and rise above your gut feelings. Not if actions are more important than nice sounding speeches and being charismatic. For verification see:
Civil Rights – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/09/civil-rights-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Economy – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/10/economy-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Economic Graphs – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/03/02/economic-graphs
Education – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/01/14/education-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Environment – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/08/environment-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Health Care – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/04/03/health-care-under-democraticrepublican-uniparty
Transparency – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/02/27/transparency-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Unions – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/02/05/unions-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
War – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/11/wars-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Whistleblowers – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/09/whistleblowers-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
thanks for confirming.
But don’t we already have our hands on the atomic bomb, and for quite some time now? Like for all of our lives?
What makes you think that Romney is any more likely than Obama to engage in a nuclear war? Do you have some kind of a crystal ball there?
You yourself just said that they are BOTH sorry assed characters – I just don’t understand how you would even want to vote for one over the other.
Dude, you really need to get out of this party over policy mind-set, seriously!
For confirming what? That I’m a barbarian? If that’s what you meant with your pathetic piece of snark, I’ll take that as a compliment.
You see, barbarians have a sense of honor. Corporatists, including O-Bot corporatists, don’t.
I accept your acknowledgement of my obvious superiority with all due humility.
I have invited Jarvis Tyner to participate in this discussion.
The American people want to see these wars end and use the resulting “peace dividend” to improve their lives and living conditions: real health care reform, improved housing and education, a national public child care system.
Jarvis Tyner and his Obama supporting chums on the National Board of the CPUSA are running into some very stiff opposition from members over whether it is fitting for Communists to support Obama.
I have repeatedly challenged this CPUSA “leadership” to bring forward the question:
How is Barack Obama’s Wall Street war economy working for you?
I also suggested, to no avail during Obama’s huge hyped-up Inauguration Ceremonies, that the Communist Party should distribute a call to action for organizing the kind of movements required “to hold Obama’s feet to the fire.”
Instead of providing this kind of leadership which would have strengthened the people’s movements, the CPUSA leadership went to Washington and shed tears of joy without engaging people in a discussion of what would be required to transform “hope” to real “change.” Jarvis Tyner and the rest of the National “leaders” of the CPUSA sat out this phase of struggle choosing to remain cheerleaders for Obama’s Wall Street war economy. Now, along comes Tyner chiding people for not doing what he previously said was required but provided no leadership to accomplish the tasks of building mass movements.
The CPUSA leadership received a three-million dollar “contribution” which can only be explained because of the support for Obama. Over one-million dollars was used to re-model the National Office of the CPUSA so, “the Party would be able to gear up for struggle.”
Then came the kicker after the remodeling was complete. The U.S. Peace Council requested funding for leaflets from CPUSA National Chair, some bozo named Sam Webb who responded, “We can’t afford to pay for leaflets.”
Think about it. A three-million dollar contribution with just over a million spent on remodeling and not enough money left to help publish some leaflets to oppose Obama’s wars.
Come on, let’s get real hear and ask Tyner how over a million dollars could be spent on a remodeling job that was undertaken under the auspices of preparing for battle and there isn’t enough money left to print leaflets for peace.
In fact, instead of building the kind of movements Jarvis Tyner acknowledges are required, Tyner and the CPUSA “leadership” with-held the financial and human resources required to build these movements.
I am surprised no one is asking Tyner what resources the CPUSA is prepared to provide to build the kind of movements required that could “hold Obama’s feet to the fire.”
There are so many missing pieces and so much more confusion in what Tyner has written which only he can explain.
Why doesn’t Tyner come here to this site and participate in this discussion?
The CPUSA “leadership” is preparing to hold a big major National Conference coming up in a few days for the purpose of mobilizing support for Obama… one hitch: the Democrats don’t welcome them.
you are a very angry person.
i go to fdl almost daily, and i see very little in the way of diversity.
do you wish to meet on a field of battle?
do you have a hammer or sword.
the iron age sounds about right for views.
by “bot”, you’re assuming i use a computer to respond or comment.
how many occupy events have you been to?
i’ve been to 4. not as an informer or plant, btw.
you wish to throw any comment or person that doesn’t conform to your
worldview off this website.
by all means, flag me bro!
what a socialist you must be to disallow any comments that don’t cater to
your liking.
what is D. U., anyway?
how do you differ from all the righty websites?
Speaking of Obots trying to spam memes… I think a few more than “200 fdl voters” will be voting third-party.
Quite a few more, as a matter of fact.
I’m not angry, at the moment. I AM disgusted with the likes of you. As a matter of fact, I do collect swords and would love meet you on a field of battle. Unfortunately, that might have adverse legal consequences, so I respectfully decline your ungracious offer.
As a matter of fact, I’ve been to more Occupy events than you have, in my home city. I’m glad you attend them; I just hope you don’t bring Democratic Party cheerleading with you when you go, for that is not what they are all about.
No, I don’t want to throw people with whom I disagree off of FDL. You have done nothing worth flagging. DU is Democratic Underground, and you sound just like the majority over there, which DID ban me several times. If you are really unfamiliar with the site, I apologize.
I do NOT apologize for slamming an Obamabot, though. As for how FDL differs from all of the “righty” websites, as you call them, if you don’t know that, then you have some serious issues.
Indeed. The national polls which actually offer registered voters a third party option in presidential preference polls are consistently coming up with 7% “other.” If that number holds, it will be significant.
enuf said.
we will never agree.
disgusted? sounds like a temperate individual.
good luck-don’t cut yourself.
i think i know what occupy is about.
i went to understand and learn.
they have changed the conversation.
let’s see if it has legs.
“Believe me, Romney would be even more “criminal” than Obama.”
Purdy funny altogether, David Seaton. Romney hauntin’ your nightmares? Tell me what he did as governor that was even close to the evil this President had committed. Not in your sleep, for real, or as real as it gets.
The rest of what you wrote isn’t worth answering, but Obama as a “reasonably competent and human president…” is hard to even read. Vote third party.
You may remember how early I announced at (the accursed) Dagblog that my moral/ethical compass would permanently ensure that I could never vote of O; I gave a long list of crimes, amoral and immoral acts that were determinant.
But, lol! “Believe you”…your constant indictments of Julian Assange and his Evil Countenance (‘you can tell he’s a pervert’ or whatever shite you doled out from you fevered projection) permanently lost you credibility for me.
Shorter reaction to Dave: TILT!!!! Get offa my cloud!
Just keep voting corporatist until Occupy wins your freedom for you. Maybe your heroes have always been Tories?
don’t hurt’em RC!
Thanks for stopping by.
Oh, to be so pure! Not worth the effort to try to discuss anything with this group!
David, you are wasting bandwidth trying to conduct a discussion here. These are the best among us, ask them.
Bring it on big boy…
David, I’d like to suggest that you step back and modify the point from which you’re viewing things.
Yes, there’s going to be a presidential election, and yes, we currently have only two “main” candidates.
But I think it’s worth exploring what might happen if Romney won. It would not be in a vacuum. Hopefully [I can be as fact-freely hopeful as you are] the Democrats, who have either been willfully silent since 2008 or forced into silence by Obama, would wake up and make some noise. See, for example, Wisconsin.
To me that’s a far better scenario than the one where Obama wins again, Democrats are silent for ANOTHER four years, while Obama slides the country even further into the hole on civil liberties, war, torture, financial clean-up, etc. Under this scenario, Dems would be even MORE tied to the “there’s no difference between them” and “they’re all in Wall Street’s pocket” memes.
At least as “loyal opposition,” Dems have a chance to halt bad actions AND a chance to re-establish themselves as a party that cares about the middle class and poor.
With four more years of either shutting up or being Obama’s cheerleaders, neither of those possibilities can come to pass.
That’s why many of us who were formerly Obama supporters will not vote for him in 2012. [I'll be voting Third Party.]
Well said.
Thanks for stopping by.
Third party voters don’t have to obtain a majority or even a plurality of the votes to positively influence the electoral process. In fact if the combined third party vote of those candidates to the left of the duopoly pairing’s count exceeds the losing margin for the Democrat it will signal that that candidate has miscalculated their policies and messaging and alienated what should be their base supporters. Voting for a winning candidate whose views are substantially different from one’s own is in fact more a wasted vote than voting for a losing candidate whose views are inline with your own.
As for Obama-Romney, I have little confidence, fear mongering unbacked by informed argument aside, there will be any substantial difference in the ideological direction of governance between the two.
I would actually view the reality of the upcoming pairing of duopolists as one center-right security state corporate tool pretending to be a hard right conservative vs. another center-right security state corporate tool pretending to be a liberal progressive. The differences are mostly messaging and atmospherics. Policy — not so much.
Extremely late to your post, but from here you get the HUZZAH!
Yes, Maki tries the souls of men and women. He has a direct line to the Beckinbaugh’s of political jibberish.
I just love it when Obamabots inevitably make the “purity” agument. The entire premise of that argument is false, in that it necessarily implies, without support, that the lesser evil being defended is actually good enough to constitute a decent option for decent people. The argument can only work if it can be shown that Obama, while not quite purely pure, is actually so very close to pure that it is unreasonable to quibble about the difference between him and absolute purity. But Obama’s record sucks on its face. Thus is the delusion revealed. Nothing but another straw man argument.
Indeed. There is a perfectly cogent argument to made that if one looks longer term than the next election cycle that it is entirely likely progressive policy will be advanced more effectively by a left in opposition to a center-right corporate security state tool than having to support an ideologically similar center-right corporate security state tool to maintain party/tribal discipline. Having an acting head of the Democratic Party who is essentially a moderate Republican leaves the country with effectively nobody to argue for progressive policy in the national political discourse, really the worst possible outcome from a progressive perspective.
spot on diary here
Look at it this way, RC.
When you are a masochistic, partisan doormat, and filled to the gills with magical thinking about Obama, the “purity” premise probably sounds like a convincing counter-argument.
X2! Spot on and say it again!
Thanks for stopping by, and another big thanks to ALL commentors, even to those of whom I am in complete disagreement with!
Great post.
I learn alot from Alan’s posts, as I do from so many of the writers on FDL. Alan always brings some much needed info and an informed perspective to the table.
Just so happened that today while reading his diary I learned about Communists supporting Obama…and I just about threw a fit! Lol!
I just can’t get that masochism thing down, despite my best efforts lol.
You really should be more careful what you ask for. Don’t you understand what is coming?
Obviously not. This system we have is not sustainable. It’s doomed. The only questions are when it will collapse, how, and what will replace it.
Enjoy your bubble while you can, liberal.
Touche’. Thanks, man.
Oops. Didn’t realize my wife was logged in. Oh, well, another post to this thread. Onward to 100!
Oopsie II! Didn’t realize my wife was logged in so I posted under her name.
Important point.
Thanks for stopping by.
Thanks Ohio Barbarian!
I with you.
This asshole is far more evil that GWB. IMHO, Bush was a product of his environment, a family that had been in the upper 1% for three generations and consorted with Hitler to prevent the advance of socialism. He was a C student and had no clue what the constitution meant, because he was still sobering up when he got to class.
Okay, but Obama has no such excuse. He totally understands and on demand can parrots the progressive like a water tap dispenses water. And, he has taught constitutional law at one of the nation’s top universities. He’s no fool, which means that he is evil. He knows exactly what he is doing and whom he is serving and, likely, what his rewards will be for doing so.
In my book, Hanlon’s Razor, “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,” might work for GWB but simply cannot work for Obama.
“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,”
Awesome!
Remember this, though, the fear that looms behind the arguments of the Oboma apologists is real enough.
Odds are that for the great majority of them that fear has had a prominent role in shaping their inability to come to terms with what Obama is doing to them.
The fear is real enough.
But I, for one, am tired of the terrorists winning.
“Never attribute to malice what is more adequately explained by stupidity.”
–Napoleon
So. Who said it first?
Yes very true. It is a real fear.
I think, like you said, a fair amount of folks have reached the point where they are tired of being afraid and voting out of fear year and year out and seeing things just get worse.
Personally, I have reached the point where I would rather force an OPEN and very CLEAR confronation of the ideals of CONservatism and NeoLiberalism vs the real progressives and the actual moderates; than to keep the racket of death by stealth CONservatism and NeoLiberalism going and see me and my fellow citizens slowly lose ground every election cycle.
And I’m willing to endure whatever consequences may come of it.
Fear of the big, bad Republican? Like this?:
http://my.firedoglake.com/ohiogringo/2012/04/08/ohios-enigmatic-governor/
As I said in that diary entry, if someone like John Kasich is the alternative to Barack Obama, I’ll take Kasich in a heartbeat. Doesn’t mean I like him, but he’s better that this particular “D”.
Why in the world should I fear Mitt Romney so much I would vote for Obama instead of for what my conscience dictates, which is Socialist or Green?
Well, Senator, here’s an old funky tune that I think aptly sums up Obama and his O-Bots. Holds true today. So true:
http://youtu.be/6wKyXA_nMVQ
X2!
Ohio Barbarian!
should’ve warned me before you dropped that link on me, I clicked on it…..and had to open a window it got so funky!
I ain’t voting for any of these putative candidates for president – because, why?
Someone explain to me in real terms why it matters, under the current system of the Electoral College?
If someone can explain to me how even ONE, just ONE electoral College vote won’t be cast for either party candidate, then I’ll listen to that argument.
Obamabot this, LOTE that, is a load of crap as far as I’m concerned when a root cause analysis says that the Electoral College is outmoded and needs to be abolished.
When people want to engage about system changes instead of partisan changes, that’s something interesting to talk about IMO. I’ll fire one out there that’s not a Constitutional Convention change.
The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
100!
You did it, SG!
Lol!
1st comment under the song says: “Someone needs to make a version of this with pictures of Republicans.” that’s ice cold! and entirely accurate!
Thanks to you and ALL commentors who have helped make me the Gopher to the Special Assistant, to the Auxillary Secretary, to the Back Up Viceroy….of the Internets!
If enough people go 3rd party….then those candidates WILL be major party candidates.
That’s a long term goal that will NEVER get off the ground if we don’t start somewhere.
I understand. Unfortunately, we don’t have TIME to pass a Constitutional Amendment getting rid of the Electoral College in favor or some truly popular vote system for electing Presidents. Our current system will collapse before that can happen. It’s just too far gone. It’s 50/50 right now whether there actually will be a presidential election in 2024, maybe even 2020.
The Collapse is coming. One too many bubbles will burst.
So. We can have a Constitutional Convention, and scrap the antiquated Constitution of 1789, hopefully relatively peaceably, as in a few thousand dead. Or, we can have a real revolution and its aftermath, with up to millions dead.
Take your pick. Sorry, but that is the way I see it. One thing that must happen if any form of democracy is to survive is a total ban on any but taxpayer-funded contributions to political candidates, probably under penalty of death at first to show we are serious.
Anything other than that just leads the door open to a resurrection of what we have now, which is not working.
I am sorry to be so gloomy, but it has come to that. Obama was our last hope. And he was a Trojan Horse.
Like I said – explain to me HOW, in the current system you get ONE e-college vote. Just one, or one State’s.
I’m just saying, I think time is better spent on changing the system instead of changing the votes.
Because THAT’S how you get change via votes, when they actually matter, instead of allocation by E-College.
Saying that at least Obama is better than Bush is like saying that at least Kroger had a higher GPA than Blutarsky. Both deserved to flunk out of college, and neither Bush nor Obama merited my vote.
Mr. Kroger: two C’s, two D’s and an F. That’s a 1.2. Congratulations, Kroger. You’re at the top of the Delta pledge class. Mr.Blutarsky, zero point zero.
I think Obama’s team figures liberals and progressives have nowhere else to go. Wrong. I suspect a lot of the ‘left’–the base of the Democratic Party?–will not vote Obama in November. Voting Green or any other protest vote would be preferable to reelecting Barack Obama, even if we suffer the fate of his evil twin.
Again, you can change the system as you advocate.
Or you can change the parties within the system.
Or do BOTH at the same time.
I don’t understand why you immediately refuse to vote for anyone who is NOT a candidate of a legacy party.
I fail to see the wisdom in that Kelly.
As Gopher to the Special Assistant, to the Auxillary Secretary, to the Back Up Viceroy….of the Internets (for the next 13.5 min) I offer my sincere thanks to ALL commentors on this thread:
From the group Little Brother ‘the love joint revisited’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I6WqX1tZJ4
If you refuse to reelect an incumbent, and you will not vote for a D or an R, it will screw up the Kochs and their type. It’s money that changes everything, not the electoral form or party.
Well, WHO to vote FOR then? Rocky Anderson? He’s a fucking tool. Has zero idea about economics. And have you been to Salt Lake City lately? It’s none the better for his administration. And I am completely suspicious about his gay equality position, no matter what he says, because, hello, look at SLC today.
Jill Stein? Can’t organize her way out of a paper bag, much less come up with a competent administration.
No, none of the putative Presidential clowns deserve a vote in my opinion. The system needs changed, and that’s where I’ll put my efforts.
SO let me make sure I understand you correctly….the less of 2 evils paragigm ONLY applies to legacy parties?
I don’t see the wisdom in that Kelly.
And just to be clear. I think reforming the electoral college system may be a worthy endeavor.
BUt I DON’T see why that would preclude someone from voting 3rd party.
Well, yes, except that every evil bastard since Reagan has latched onto that sufficiently that they all plead stupidity when they are caught doing evil. Aaargghh! “I’m a genius who’s running everything, but if a crime was committed then I’m just an innocently ignorant idiot.” Major league deja vu on that, no?
True indeed RC. True indeed.
Thanks for stopping by!
And that’s what it’s gonna take to get real change, a lot of that attitude.
Well, whoever is president becomes the unitary executive of an ongoing national security state (brought on and bought by oligarchs). So will anything change? I mean, even if it’s Jill or Rocky, will it really change?
I doubt it.
On another thread I asked if Jill Stein’s DOJ would ‘look backward’ in justice and prosecute war criminals. A commenter said they’d asked her this directly, and she had no answer. That’s not good.
(Laphroaig, however, is good.)
Let me be completely clear – Vote for any prez candidate you like in 2012. It won’t actually matter, and won’t bring any change you really want.
Doing other things will actually matter. I can’t be more clear than that.
I’m still epically failing to see the wisdom in your position.
IF you make a 3rd party and support it until it becomes a MAJOR party, then even in the dirty, smelly, pathetic electoral college system candidates from that party MUST be competitive.
IF NOT, then it would seem you are suggesting the entire game is rigged. IF that is indeed the case, then it wouldn’t matter WHO you voted for right? SO why not vote for a non legacy party?
I can do this all night Kelly.
Emphasis added.
Do you even know how the Electoral College works? Hell yes, it’s rigged as far as 2 parties are concerned.
So don’t harass me to vote for any particular 3rd party or candidate. Currently I’m considering leaving A) the top line (Prez vote) blank, or B) writing myself in.
Because the effect will be the same.
Who are you backing? If you want to disparage others’ choices you should stand behind your own. Not that your disparagement has any useful degree of specificity.
Never mind, just read your post at #120.
“Hell yes, it’s rigged as far as 2 parties are concerned.”
Ok Kelly, it’s rigged then. Fair enough. It doesn’t matter who we vote for so why bother at all right Kelly?
As to your point about harrasing folks over their voting habits; I wrote this diary to express MY opinion.
In the exchange between you and I; the closest I came to disparaging your voting prefrence was to ask you “Why NOT vote 3rd Party?”.
So I will stop my cruel and evil onslaught of ‘disparaging’ comments aimed at you Kelly.
Are we cool now bro? can we be friends? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8
seriously, I disagree with you, I am NOT trying to disparage you.
Thanks for stopping by Kurt. and X2!
In Illinois, as I read what the board of elections website says (I’m no expert), it looks like the only votes that make it to the official count are those for people actually on the ballot or write-ins for people who have filed paperwork declaring themselves as write-in candiates.
People will differ in why the vote third party or write in in 2012, support for a particular candidate, wanting to build a third party, different views on the extent to which electoral politcs works or can or can’t be made to work. But if one of the reasons is to send a message it would seem that voting for someone actually on the ballot
Oops – did I hit submit? …voting for someone on the ballot is preferable to just a write-in, if possible.
check out Jill Stein of the Green Party’s ballot access progress: http://www.jillstein.org/ballot
and thanks for stopping by.
And I wrote my comments to express MY opinion in response.
Look, vote how you will, act how you must. All I am saying is that the Interstate Voting Compact is prolly one of the better ideas out there right now, as regards real change.
When an actual candidate arises, at the Prez level, that I can vote FOR, rather than just casting a protest vote? I’ll vote for that candidate. I just don’t see that happening.
Meanwhile, what I’ll actually work for, is the Interstate Voting Compact. Because I see that as far more valuable to everyone who has commented on this thread, frankly.
Thanks. I check her site now and then. The Green Party has been on the ballot here before, so I expect there will probably be at least that one place for send-a-message folks to go this year, even while we debate what are the real tasks necessary to change things.
My, who put the condescension in your latte’ tonight, liberal?
Look, I completely agree with you on the need for abolishing the Electoral College, which was originally put into place to prevent the great unwashed masses from electing the President. I have no doubt you know that.
But let us examine one of your statements:
“When an actual candidate arises, at the Prez level, that I can vote FOR, rather than just casting a protest vote? I’ll vote for that candidate. I just don’t see that happening.”
That stands on its own. I don’t think I am unfairly taking you out of context or cherrypicking, which is a favorite pastime of many Internet posters.
Logically, you are saying that there is a difference between voting for an actual candidate and casting a protest vote. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you implying that casting a protest vote by voting FOR someone with whom one actually agrees is somehow different than voting for an “actual” candidate? And does not “actual” mean either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney? IE one who can actually win the Electoral College?
If I’m on the right track here, and I’m not completely sure of that because I don’t have alien mind-reading powers, you are saying that casting a “protest” vote for a candidate who has no chance of winning a single Electoral College vote is worthless, therefore the only reasonable thing to do is to choose between the lesser of the two evils anointed by the two legacy parties. IOW, until the Electoral College is abolished by your high-minded reforms, choose between Obama and Romney and STFU.
Am I missing something? If I am, please elucidate. If I’m not, just come out and say that you are in David Seaton’s LOTE camp. Equivocating serves no useful purpose.
Or ignore me, which is still an answer.
Damn this FDL editing function. That last reply is directed at Kelly Canfield. Sorry I pushed the wrong button.
If you would actually read, in or out of context, I am saying none, not one, any out of all of them, none of the candidates at the Prez level are worth my vote as they all stink in some way or another.
No LOTE going on here. None whatsoever.
OK. That’s clear, thanks. I suppose you are either not voting or writing in someone, then. Nothing wrong with either option, IMHO.
At least we agree that the current system is broken.
Uh, yeah, I said that numerous times on this thread, which if you had bothered to read, you would know.
Boulder.
Given the huge amount of Comments you have written quite well:) I suggest a follow up post it seems you have a hit.
I liked your last sentence to Kelly Canfield of “I disagree with you, not wanting to disparage you.”
That is one of the main things wrong with the political climate today. People no longer “disagree” – there exists all this outrage, all this intensity of “Think as I think or damn you to a dark and stinky hell!”
Glad to see someone step to the bat and express these sentiments.
Since he is close friends with Joe Lieberman and calls himself a tnr dem, I dont see how you think he will do anything interesting in the middle east a liberal would like!
You have to go through the parties to change the electoral college, unless you propose a consitutional convention. I have seen no evidence of you working for this.
In what way does Rocky not understand economics. Be specific!
I’m not sure that he is going to do something interesting in the ME, but Netanyahu and his crowd sure think so.
I’m not much of a third-party guy, and take it for granted that, for the foreseeable future, we’re stuck with the two we’ve got right now: The Psychopathic Fascist Party, and their counterpart, the Useless Chickenshit Party. The PF party has the big corporate money and the robotic teevee-watchers – the UC party only has the memory of some policies and programs that long ago benefitted the vast majority of the populace. It is now so weak that the President from that party is actually a Trojan Horse acting on behalf of the other party.
It seems to me that there is only one significant difference between the PF and the UC candidates: If the Psychopathic Fascist candidate is elected, there is a small chance that the dazed and confused representatives of the Useless Chickenshits will actually find it in their little chickenshit hearts to oppose the policies of the Psychopathic Fascists. As can be seen from our current situation, UC’s are completely and totally unable to resist PF policies when these policies are espoused by a (pseudo-) UC president.
I live in the South, where the Psychopathic Fascists are extra-psychopathic, and the Useless Chickenshits are extra-useless. Jill and Rocky won’t be on my ballot, and they don’t even have an association with those long-ago programs that benefit the populace. So I’ll be writing in the name of the President that created those programs.
I wouldn’t bet the farm on that. What can change things/is changing things is the growing inequality and the deterioration of the middle class… That is why the “Psychopathic Fascists” are so hysterical… They are bankrupt ideologically and want to protect their money from the tax man. The “Useless Chickenshits” will finally be carried along by the middle class (if the PFs don’t start WWIII first to stop them).
Given his close frienship, like Joe Lieberman, Robert Kagan,
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/books/the-world-america-made-by-robert-kagan.html?pagewanted=all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/articles/display/neoconservative_resurgence_in_the_age_of_obama
and other aipac supporters, I am pretty skeptical he will oppose the inevitable war with iran and syria! I am just resigned that it will happen no matter what!
I think Obama just told Netenyahu to postpone a decision on the war till after election to rope a dope liberals like he did with the keystone pipeline! His betrayals have been persistent and repeated all along.
The sanctions actually create justificatiion for war, not motivation for negotiation since the Dem neocons that created the sanctions admit they wont negotiate with Iran no matter what.
Wow
I had been very busy campaigning yesterday.
Good job fellow firebaggers
Recc’ed
If you follow all the right wing Zionist stuff (Commentary etc)you’ll see nothing but hysterical attacks on Obama.
Yes. But they are wrong to panic. Obama will surely do their bidding as well as Mitt would do.
Obama plans to attack Social Security and Medicare. If re-elected he will have a great chance of success (at dismantlement).
Romney would like to do the same, but Dims will oppose him on such measures. Self-preservation being the key reason.
I wrote about this awhile back:
The skinny is that the Palestinian question is the key to the US having a role in the new ME. The Israeli right doesn’t want it solved… any second term US president might try to fix it, therefore one term presidents are to be preferred not only by AIPAC but all those whose power comes from funding hungry politicians.
There is a common theme through all your responses. You imagine the worst that Romney could do and you compare it to the best that you imagine Obama might do. Meanwhile, you ignore the obvious precedent set by Obama over the last 3-plus years.
You can hang your hat on the what-ifs you’ve loaded to suit your preferred outcome. For me, it is a lot simpler than that. Obama and the Dems have taken the country rightward at a faster pace than any administration before. And the SOB lied through his teeth to get into the position to do that.
I will not reward that with my support in any form or fashion.
What you describe comes across as extreme wishful thinking.
And when the leopard doesn’t change his spots?
When he instead continues brown-nosing the <1%?
When he finishes dismantling the New Deal as the drones fly overhead?
What then?
Will you just say "Oops!"…?
You are afraid, and that's why you grasp at these tattered fig leaves even amidst the towering piles of evidence of Obama's duplicity, but I think you are afraid of the wrong things.
Almost all two term presidents make some sort of attempt to “solve” the Palestinian situation. First termers who try it don’t get a second term (Carter + Bush-I). The Israelis want to maintain the status quo until they get a chance to ethnically cleanse “Judea and Samaria”. That is their beef with Obama.
I’m not a big fan of Obama’s, anybody who reads my stuff can tell you how much crap I took for my skepticism in 2008. I think he has turned out to be a “normal”, even a competent president. He is every bit as sinister as you say, but that comes with the job. Political regeneration, if it ever comes in the USA, will come from the bottom up, not from the White House.
The bankers attack him repeatedly too! It is called working the refs. It works with corrupt refs!
Thanks, Alternate. You’ve said what I was trying to in my prior comments:
a) you can’t just take the imagined “worst” that Romney would do and compare it to the imagined [and ultimately more fanciful and unlikely] “best” that Obama would do. You’ve GOT to look at what Obama has DONE over the past 3-1/2 years. Look at it. Don’t make excuses about it. Look at it. Look at the things he refused to even TRY. That’s what, at the very least, you’re gonna get more of.
b) there’s more to this whole cake than just the presidency. An effective, Katy-bar-the-door Congress can mean something. And the way Obama has neutralized Democratic opposition to policies that would cause screams and riots were they put forth by Republicans is criminal. Not only has Obama done all this bad stuff, he has also linked the Democratic name to it. He’s destroyed what was once the Democratic identify of standing up for those who need help, of standing together, of fending off the criminals and greedy.
Thus I don’t really care about the “quality” of loser candidates Rocky & Jill. We all know they’re not going to win. However, I just want some votes in their column to show that those votes didn’t go to Obama, that some voters WEREN’T “terrorized” by scary stories, and that I won’t vote for someone who’s policies are ruining this country.
So the <1% want to gin up a progressive pro-Palestine split that badly?
Well, if you insist on being a tool and dragging the Palestinians into to this using the very thin excuse of what Obama might maybe do then I will say it:
The vaporous hope of giving the Palestinians a lousy solution is not worth the dead certainty of what Obama will do to the American people when he's reselected.
It's not that I don't think the Palestinians deserve a fair shake… it's that I'm certain Obama will not give them one.
The Imperial Executive has had multiple chances to make its Palestinian policy clear… and it has made that policy very clear indeed.
I agree 100% with everything you said, especially regarding Rocky Anderson and Jill Stein.
Almost better to vote for Romney and give a true progressive candidate a better chance in 2016, running on the disaster that Mitt perpetuated for 4 years.. Rather than casting a worthless vote for Green or Justice.
A vote for Romney would be as worthless as a vote for Obama… either vote could only be counted as a vote in favor of the bipartisan policies that maintain the <1%'s grip on power.
A third party vote is not worthless if it is recorded as such… even if that vote cannot alter the fact that Obama will be reselected.
But a third party vote can serve as documented evidence that acknowledgment and rejection of the rigged game is spreading… and that is what our owners fear most.
Our best chance as liberals, progressives and leftists is uniting around a common statement of purpose and an agenda challenging Wall Streets wars and its austerity program to pay for these wars while demanding the resulting peace dividends be used to implement needed reforms like health care and child care which when combined with re-establishing WPA, CCC and C.E.T.A. would put everyone in this country to work. We solve the unemployment problem by putting people to work in the public sector solving our social problems. Place this kind of unity statement in front of Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson and insist they work together.
Since the Democrats and Republicans have pretty much worked together in preventing people from using the electoral process to become empowered in creating the kind of country we want we shouldn’t fear becoming a factor in deny Obama the presidency because he deserves to lose based on the promises of hope and change he made in the last election which he obviously never intended to keep.
Plus, there is no basis for judging either Obama or Romney any more evil from one another.
It is the epitome of hypocrisy to now claim that Rocky Anderson knows nothing about economics after the way Wall Street’s Obama has contributed to screwing up this country using Wall Street’s administrators and then claiming Jill Stein has no organizing talent when we have all of these “Progressives For Obama” claiming to be the best organizers and all they have done is served to undermine efforts to hold Obama’s feet to the fire which requires organization.
Rocky Anderson definitely has a good grasp of economics as does Jill Stein; unfortunately both seem to be lacking in what is needed by way of organization but since when is the ability to organize to get votes considered a qualification to be president— this requires a collective effort on the part of the candidates and the people and organizations backing them.
I find it interesting Obama and his supporters have run away from campaigning based on “hope” and “change” and are now putting all their marbles in campaigning based on “fear-mongering” rather than convincing voters that Obama has moved the country in a direction of “change” people were “hoping” for.
Quite the campaign we are witnessing; “hope” and “change” are to voters ears kind of like a dry, hard piece of chalk screeching across a blackboard— not what people want to hear so a new message of “fear” has been created which will deliver us just what we got through the message of “hope” and “change”— nothing but misery and suffering.
And we are supposed to keep our mouths shut about how we are suffering as a direct result of Obama’s actions and inaction over the last four years in order to save Barack Obama’s worthless political butt.
We are supposed to spend our time contemplating how afraid we should be of Romney without discussing what Obama has done and hasn’t done. Where is the logic in doing this?
None of Obama’s supporters among liberals, progressives and the left have asked the most important question of all because they are afraid of the answers they will get:
How is Barack Obama’s Wall Street war economy working for you?
Why is this question so hard for them to ask; and why is it they don’t want to answer this question themselves.
This is a very honest question. if it is any way dishonest or not truthful let’s hear the reasons.
Defining Obama’s relationship to Wall Street is legitimate.
We do have a war economy Wall Street profits from resulting in people suffering.
We have a right to find out how this war economy is working out for people.
Voting based on fear gets us nothing.
Voting for the kind of country we want is going to turn this country around.
One thing no one seems to want to talk about as these Obama supporters keep trying to peddle a campaign based on fear is that in each succeeding elections there is always going to be even more to fear because we have a crumbling system that is falling apart before our eyes.
I challenge anyone who supports Obama to provide us with a scenario where there will be an opportunity to break free from this two-party trap.
Jarvis Tyner and his buddies supporting Obama can’t provide us with such a scenario where they would be willing to break free from this two-party trap.
The last time I talked with Jarvis Tyner he was at the Campaign for America’s Future’s national conference— he never spoke, he never distributed a leaflet he ran away from bringing forward anything that smacked of pushing a broad united people’s progressive agenda as an alternative to Wall Street’s war economy. And he is still running away from taking on our Wall Street enemies. In fact, he has joined with our Wall Street enemies and exactly like Obama he uses left wing rhetoric to justify his support for Barack Obama’s Wall Street war economy— if this isn’t the case, where is what he advocates in the way of anything except for supporting Obama? He has written thousands of words many times stating he disagrees with Obama on some things without mentioning specifically what he disagrees with and more importantly what he feels the alternative is. Tyner doesn’t get specific because he knows that if he were to be specific he would look ridiculous calling on working people to vote for Obama because he comes to his call for supporting Obama with nothing except “fear” of Republicans in his hand; Tyner brings nothing with him— not even worthless promises from Obama to solve any of the pressing problems working people are experiencing. He has written this essay supporting Obama which doesn’t have one bit of urgency in it when it comes to solving the problems of working people.
There isn’t even a hint or suggestion of what working people should try to get out of Obama in return for voting for him.
This kind of position taken by Tyner is very odd and out of character for anyone claiming to be a Communist because any Communist would at least be encouraging working people to come together around a very basic set of demands in return for Obama and the Democrats receiving votes from working people.
Tyner must read the poll results.
The American people want peace.
The American people want jobs.
The American people want real health care reform.
Shouldn’t we be able to expect peace, jobs and real health care reform in return for anyone getting our votes?
I have yet to hear anyone say they don’t care if the wars continue and millions remain unemployed and we are without adequate health care as long as we get Obama instead of Romney.
It is a disgrace to have leaders of the Communist Party USA articulating support for a worthless Wall Street charlatan while remaining silent about how to use our votes and the electoral process to win peace, jobs and real health care reform.
My final word on this thread… As bad as Obama is, Romney is worse… and that is the choice.
You are mistaken. Obama has done and will do more damage to Progressive causes and Progressivism than Romney could ever dream of doing. For one simple reason: partisan loyalty inhibits Democratic politicians and the Democratic rank-and-file from rising up against what Obama is doing. As a Trojan Horse Conservative, Obama is the most treacherous and dangerous candidate for Progressives.
I told everybody that in 2008. Now it is too late.
Well said. word for word! x2!
What SG said.
Alan, you should should turn that comment into a diary.
My one suggestion would be this: Instead of singling out the Communist Party, you could apply it generically to all the sell-out “progressive” organizations, unions, pundits, and politicians that are endorsing Obama and putting their stamp of approval on what he’s done.
Alan
As you and many already know- Rocky Anderson has publicly stated that he will be willing to work with Jill Stein or whomever get the Green nod.
There has been no response to this.
Which speaks volumes.
Alternate
You mean like
Sierra Club
Moveon.org
Move To Amend
Code Pink
Oh heck, this could take all day.
Just make it almost every single “progressive” group, blog, “progressive” media which takes money from the foundation grants. Also known as the 501c3 Industrial Complex.
Follow the money- ALWAYS follow the money
Thanks!
and thanks for stopping by!
Then, by your own admission, you have given in to the terrorists.
Literally, the terrorists win.
Don’t forget the unions endorsing Obama. Off the top of my head:
AFL-CIO
ASW
NEA
SEIU
AFSCME
Just curious, but who were you endorsing in 2008 when you “told everybody” about Obama?
BTW, a lot of people raised the alarm about Obama in 2008 and they haven’t pulled a 180 to endorse him now, after history proved them correct.
Do you then support de-funding planned parenthood since that is a big difference to many women?
I know this wasn’t directed to me, but since I’m here:
I don’t think the Obama Administration sees the assault on Women’s Rights or planned parenthood as an issue that they will stand up and fight for…..BUT rather as an issue that they will gladly use to score points against the Scaaary Rethugs..
I haven’t heard too much talk from the Administration about Texas losing their entire women’s health program over planned parenthood: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/texas-loses-entire-womens_n_1349431.html
and let us not forget that the Department of Health and Human Services is under the executive branch: http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government/executive-branch
I’m thinking there is more the Obama Administration could do here besides cut off funding….if they were so inclined
If Obama gets re-elected, he will move further to the right.
YES, YES, YES!!! This is totally obvious. The moves he has been making to come up with “Grand Bargains”, weaken the position of federal employees, take over the Internet, inject more arbitrariness into the behavior of federal and other government police functions, …, attack Iran, … he is going to do it all.
Which is why I am voting for the ASSHAT ROMNEY. He is scary, true, because of the men who would surround him. But like the scarecrow wishes: He does have a brain. With Obismal, there is literally NO HOPE. Ironic isn’t it? Our president of hope is hopeless when it comes to doing the right thing on any of the hundreds of “right thing” decisions.
I understand NOT wanting to vote for Obama.
The only way I could vote for a Rethug is if someone paid me enough money so that I could use a good deal of it to fund a PAC to ensure the Rethug lost! LoL!
I must respect your voting decisions; but I highly encourage you to consider voting 3rd party progressive instead of for Romney.
I wish you would reconsider voting Repub and consider voting third party instead. If nothing else, it would make it harder for the pundits and politicians to misinterpret your intentions.
That said, I’d be the last person to harangue you about your decision, considering how rotten the Dems have become.
SG,if I had seen your reply, I would have just said “X2″ lol!
You are wrong. Obama is a highly capable and intelligent… tool of the <1%.
And note this: it will be very important to the obots to characterize any opposition to Obama as a vote for Romney.
But as I said upthread:
A vote for Romney would be as worthless as a vote for Obama… either vote could only be counted as a vote in favor of the bipartisan policies that maintain the <1%'s grip on power.
I cldnt agree more. There is no way I can believe in the things I do and support this man again. If Romney wins and fucks up the country so be it at least it wont be with my support. An Obama in office without having to be reelected shld be a scary thought to progressives.
Ditto on what zapkitty said.
right on!
It would be helpful if someone would issue a statement something like this that we could all sign on to; thus giving direction to where we want to be moving our country to:
http://my.firedoglake.com/alanmaki/2012/04/16/maybe-a-statement-like-this-we-could-all-agree-on-as-we-set-aside-our-differences/
Sounds reasonable, honest and worthwhile to me.
See my comment on your post.
Thanks for stopping by.