As we grapple with an economy that is somewhere between 15 and 25 million in deficit with jobs, the number of people that are or will be declaring bankruptcy is on the rise. In fiscal year 2008 1.25 million Americans filed for bankruptcy protections. Starting today, my wife and I will be one of the ones filing in fiscal year 2009.
It is surprisingly hard to write that. There is a stigma attached to filing bankruptcy, the assumption is you are a bad person because you entered into debts that you could not repay. Even knowing that I am not a bad person, I still feel some of that social conditioning as my little family faces its financial ruin.
Since I am a writer, I am going to write about this. This is path that I never thought I would be on, which I think is like most folks who face bankruptcy. Since there is this wall of silent shame and since there may be some of you reading this who will find themselves in the same straights, I am going detail the process and what it does to my wife and I in the course of this series.
There will be a lot of personal stuff in this series, as well as information about the bankruptcy process so I hope those reading it will bear with me. This process is not a dry clinical one like it might seem from a distance. When you are talking about admitting that you can’t pay back the people who you owe money to, well, that is a hard thing. Still this is not about sympathy, it is about letting the readers know what the process might be like if they ever wind up in a similar position.
So, let’s get started. Today Liz and I will be visiting a bankruptcy attorney. We have come to the decision that we will not be able to pay back our bills and waiting will not make things any better. One of the things that the attorney wants is a list of our debts. We have that, since we have been living with it and worrying about it for months. Since we will be telling the attorney how we got to this place I think I should detail it to you as well.
One of the quintessential American traits is hope. We bought the house we live in during the spring of 1996. It is nothing huge, but it is a three bedroom, 2 ½ bath house in what was called a “starter” neighborhood. 1400 sq feet, a small back yard and a tiny front yard. Just like a million other houses all over the country.
We refinanced a couple of times, and in 2001 took out a second mortgage which brought the total we financed up to $164,000. Since then we have not used the house as an ATM, and before the bubble burst we were ahead of the appreciation game. That is no longer the case.
Real troubles started four years ago when Liz’s boss at our local housing authority was fired. Since she was his executive assistant, she was let go as well. We were like most Americans, living right up to the edge of our means, with no savings outside of 401K plans. Still we had been making modest progress in paying down debt. We had only one car and were keeping up with our credit cards and other expenses, there just wasn’t anything left over at the end of the month. This is where the hope starts to hammer us. I had a very good and stable job, so we were not too worried. Liz had to find work, but it was not a crisis, or so we thought.
We reduced our expenses, but we even with unemployment, we were not going to stay afloat. We chose to put just a few minor things on the credit cards, you know, to keep our cash flow smooth, and keep our credit good. Liz would have a good job in a month or so and that would allow us to get ahead and pay back anything we put on the credit cards.
Well, one month turned into two, then five. We decided that we had to stop putting more debt onto our credit cards, so instead we raided Liz’s 401K. There was 16,000 dollars in there, and while we knew we were making a mistake, it seemed like the responsible thing to do. Pay your bills, pay your debts, if you have to work longer before you retire, well, then it is your own fault, right?
Liz found a job with as a temp with an engineering firm. The job was supposed to turn into a permanent one, but it did not when the contract they were expecting fell through. No ones fault, just one of those things. So, after only three months on the job, she was back on unemployment.
We continued to spend her 401K and eventually it ran out. Things were getting desperate, so she took a job at Starbucks. It was way below her normal pay, but it was enough that if we really buckled down to only necessities we could get by. That year an unexpected $14,000 dollars came in from my Dads estate. We used it to pay off our car loan and 10,000 of our credit card debit.
In the summer of that year Liz’s leg was hurting a lot. She went to the doctor and was told that she would have to have surgery on her tendon, and have it sometime in the next three weeks. This meant she would be out of work for at least two months, as work at Starbucks means standing and she would not be able to stand. The good news was that Starbucks has a pretty good short-term disability program, so she would get 70% of her income, the bad news was that is was not enough to cover our bills, and we started to rack up debt again. It actually took three months for Liz to recover enough to go back to work.
This brings us up to the end of 2007. Prices on everything were soaring including gas. Liz worked at a Starbucks in downtown Denver, about 20 miles from where we live. Since she mostly opened she could not take a bus, so the cost of gas, even for our four cylinder Subaru was eating us alive. To make matters worse, there were too many people at her store and no one was getting 40 hours. She even became a shift supervisor, which meant a 10% raise, but the cost of living had pushed us into negative territory again.
By December, things were bad. We were getting lots of hostile calls from our credit card companies, we were maxed on all the cards, and we were behind a month in both our mortgages. We bit the bullet and arranged payment plans with all the cards. This would freeze what we owed, stop the penalties from accruing and if we kept up with the plans give us a much lower interest rate when we emerged. We looked at all our expenses and cut out clothes and reduced our cable service to the most basic of packages and took a complete moratorium on buying books (I read two to three books a week, so even buying them used adds up). With all of that we could commit to making these payments.
We had some hope, Liz was told she was on the list for a full managers position, which would have been about a $10,000 raise and we could tough it out. I got a good raise that year and was in a job that had bonuses, which while not steady were at least earn-able. We’d get past this tough patch and things would get better.
Things did not get better. The regional manager that had told Liz she would get a store left and the new one had other ideas and other favorites. The cost of living continued to sky-rocket with the cost of gas going to $4.00 a gallon. The bonus program at my work was cut back severely, so the money I thought I would be able to bring in did not materialize. All of this, pushed us to the point where we had to start using our credit cards to keep up with food and other expenses.
That year the car kind of fell apart. It needed $300 in break work, which revealed that there was a problem with both front bearings, another $1,000. Then a rock hit the sunroof and that had to be replaced before the winter came, another $800. Still we were not in too bad a shape.
Liz’s leg had never really gotten back to 100%. Frustrated she went to see a different surgeon. He took one look at the MRI and said that she would have to have another bigger surgery. The first operation had not fixed the problem and now they would need even more effort to repair it. This time she would be off her feet for four months. Again we had her short term disability, but it was not going to be enough.
We swallowed our pride at that point and asked her brother to cover our house payments while she was out of work. We would owe him $4800 at the end, but at least we would not go under while she could not work. I have to admit that I did spend some money on restaurant food during this time. Between caring for Liz, working full time and doing all the house work, I just could not cook every night. Obviously this money went on the one credit card we had any credit left on.
Liz went back to work on Christmas Eve 2008. The economy was crashing but we both had jobs, so we should be able to start pulling ourselves out of the hole we were in. The price of gas had plummeted and that gave us a little breathing room.
Usually at my work we got a raise every year. This year all raises were frozen, as our sales were off by 25%. It was a way to keep everyone working we were told and while I really could have used the money I thought it was better if the company did not have to lay anyone off.
In April 2009 Liz was fired from Starbucks. It came as a complete shock to both of us. In Colorado we are what is known as an “At will” state. This means that an employer or employee can terminate the working relationship at any time for any reason. As gob smacked as we were, there would be unemployment. It would be a lot less than the last time Liz was on it as she had been making a lot less at Starbucks, but it would be something. That is until Starbucks contested her unemployment. We eventually won the appeals (two of them) but it took 10 weeks in past the usual time when unemployment would start. During this time we used up the little credit we had left and started to go behind on our bills again.
The massive blow to the economy affected me as well. In July 30% of our company was laid off. I was part of that lay-off. I got a decent severance package; one weeks pay for every year I had been at the company and all my vacation time converted into cash. In all about 2 ½ months of my normal pay.
I was devastated, but I am a 6 Sigma Black Belt, which is a (or was) a pretty in demand profession with good pay. It would be okay, I’d have a job before the severance ran out. Since I was no longer working there, I could access my 401K and we did to buy ourselves some breathing space.
We used some of the money to get current with our bills and decided to hoard the rest against emergencies. One thing about bankruptcy is that is never happens when your life is going great. My mother become very ill and had to have surgery. She was in the hospital for five months, four of them in Intensive Care. She lives in Michigan. Since for most of this time it looked as though it would be the end of her life, this meant I went back to Michigan three times for a total of 23 days. Even driving her car and staying some of the time with friends and family, this cost a lot of money. Between this and trying to stay current on our bills, by the New Year the 401K money was gone.
Part of the problem in losing my job was that it came with great insurance. I was covered for free, and Liz was covered for only $100 a month. Even with the COBRA subsidy our insurance cost $400 a month. Liz, because of her back injury, takes seven different prescriptions that even with insurance cost $150 a month. We can not be without insurance. In December, we went back to her brother. We asked if he might be able to cover the COBRA payment. He kindly agreed.
Even with that burden lifted we are not making enough to cover our bills. We are behind with the mortgages (one month) and behind a month on most of the credit cards. We can not even get back into their payment plans, as you have to have an income to do that.
This is where hope ends. We have applied for literally thousands of jobs. No offers. We can not know when we will get a job, given the state of the economy. In all we owe $224,000 but that might as well be a billion at this point.
So, we will have to go bankrupt. I am sorry this is so long, I thought it best to explain the whole situation and breaking it into two posts did not seem to work. In the next installment I will talk about what we find out from the lawyers.
The floor is yours.



75 Comments







I believe it’s the marketeers that make bankruptcy a dirty word, they declare bankruptcy all the time when it’s financially prudent
its’ part of the game, part of the rules of the game, the lender knew about bankruptcy when they gave you the loan
being afraid to declare bankruptcy is the same thing as being afraid to throw a curve ball
it’s part of the business model
Well, for us it is not fear. There is just this thing of honoring my commitments. I borrowed the money with the intent to pay it back. It is having to admit failure that really stings, at least right now.
Thank you, Bill. This is a very courageous thing for you to write.
It’s interesting, I was lying awake very early this morning, thinking about writing my first diary here at FDL about my own story. My husband and I are walking away from a house that he built all by himself; we decided to let it go into foreclosure and Monday I plan to file for bankruptcy. Our house will go on the auction block in mid-April. It sucks, hard. But we have decided not to be ashamed for taking care of ourselves and putting our own interests first, above those of the banks or the credit card companies. They are all utterly shameless. Working families are supposed to pay not just their own individual debts, but we are also bailing out these parasites (and paying them annual bonuses in excess of our own lifetime wages) with our tax dollars, not to mention the fees and the late charges and the increasing interest rates and on and on. Enough. All bets are off at this point; if there were ever any checks and balances in our free market system, there certainly aren’t now.
I wish you and your wife the best of luck and I hope you will let go of any sense of shame over having to file bankrupcty. The only thing any of us should be ashamed about is that we aren’t all out in the streets protesting this unprecedented transfer of wealth and power to corporate America.
Carol, welcome to the Seminal! I can’t wait to read your stuff. I am sorry you are losing your house. As you say, it sucks. Hang in there Sister, we are all in this together.
B-
Thank you for the welcome. You’ve inspired me to write a diary about walking away from a house and what happens when you choose that path. I really think it’s important to encourage people to take whatever steps they need to take to survive and not to wait until it’s too late.
I think you will see people in the streets in the future if the economy does not turn around soon and it is doubltful that it will. The crunch is beginning to unravel the states now. Look at the college students this past week protesting the huge spikes in tuition. With the health insurance crisis and unemployment, there are more people looking to the states for all kinds of assistance and the states don’t have the money. People in the streets is something that will come. Not the tea bag lunatics, but ordinary Americans that are finally waking up to the injustice that has been taking place while they were not paying attention. When you become a victum, you start paying attention. People that have always had jobs, insurance and been financially solvent are seeing their world fall apart for the first time through no fault of their own. Anger will send them to the streets.
Bill,
I hope it is as painless for you and your family as it can possibly be.
Thank you for sharing. I’m sure it was a difficult decision for you.
You know the decision to write about it was easy, but actually putting it down was a hell of a lot harder than I thought it would be. There is a lot of emotion attached to this and it kept derailing me.
(((bill)))
Bill I’m sorry to hear about it but glad you had the courage to write about your experience. I think that many of us (all of us?) are worried about our financial situation these days–and our society is not exactly a humane one. The fact that COBRA payments figure into your story is a reflection of our society’s failings. I also wish you and your wife the best of luck and agree with HFC that the only thing any of us should be embarrassed about is that a few people in this country are immensely wealthy while most of the rest are living paycheck to paycheck in an absolute best case scenario.
This is the real “American exceptionalism” – only in America are people faced with bankruptcy because of health problems. That just doesn’t happen in any other industrialized country. But we are somehow willing to accept it here as a consequence of our own failure not to work hard enough or plan or save. It’s appalling.
Thanks for having the bravery to share your story with us as it happens, Bill.
As you lay it out, it’s clear it’s such an American story, especially for this time in our country’s history. Folks work hard, do nothing wrong, have a normal health problem or two, and suddenly they are under water.
I’m here for you however I can be, as I’m sure are others reading.
Thanks Jason; I appreciate the support. I really am not writing this for the sympathy, but in the hopes that it helps others who have to make this painful choice.
We appreciate your sharing this painful experience.
(((((Bill)))))
egr
Bill,
Like foreclosure, the “stigma” of bankruptcy –I believe — will not be so great these days. It’s happening to too many people.
And how many of these stories are tied to medical bills??????
You should not have to lose everything just because you need medical care.
Well, I have heard that nearly every bankruptcy these days has some medical component. I shudder to think what it would have been like if we had had to pay the total cost of Liz’s surgeries. It really is just luck that I had such great insurance that it was affordable.
Thank you for telling your story. It is important for people to acknowledge that we are all vulnerable to financial collapse from an extended job loss, a medical problem, etc. Through past work, I have seen more than my share of medical bankruptcies, primarily among the insured which may surprise a lot of people (That 20% adds up fast in a medical crisis.) and there should be no shame in job loss/medical bankruptcies, only compassion. With a clean slate, I hope that you are your wife emerge from this with better times ahead. This is a stressful time. Remember to be patient with each other.
Thanks for writing this Bill. I think it’s really important that people going through this realize they are not unusual. And yet the traditional press covers bankruptcy and medical bills and all as not only unusual, but traumatic, as if the only medical bill that will bankrupt you will be cancer or a heart attack.
People in this country–and politicians–really need to know how close to the edge the vast majority in this country are living. Which makes stories like this one all the more important.
Thanks Marcy! I hope it helps in some small way.
Marcy said it all so much better than I could.
Thank you, Bill, for writing. Your story combines so many of the elements that should cause shame — and action — in this country: inadequate health care, job uncertainty, feeble unemployment “benefits,” foreclosure and bankruptcy.
How I wish that Obama, “the media,” and those dreaded Congresscritters could read individual stories like yours, and dispense with the trite and unfair “oh, they bought their house at the peak,” or “no sympathy for them: they just refinanced to buy jet-skis” way of avoiding the real problems of the people of this country.
Again, thank you, and please know how many of us “out here” are pulling for you.
I defy anyone reading this honestly painful account to say, as the “me-firster” Ron Pauliacs would say, that Bill and and Liz are in this situation because they are irresponsible.
Thanks, Bill, for helping to pierce the maddeningly wrong M$M meme about only “failures” filing bankruptcy.
I do have to admit that it is part of the motivation. We fought this for years, we have scrimped and put off all kinds of things to try to honor our commitments, but in the end we just can’t.
This, and no less, is what is expected of working class families; you’ll still be deemed a “failure” by the MSM, but one who “at least tried.” Imagine how they’d react if you’d been making rash bets with other people’s money, cooking your books, and paying yourself extra for being so clever.
Bill,
I know how you feel. I went through bankruptcy ten years ago, when my wife left me for another man and decided the best thing she could do was to try and file without me, which, where I live, would have left me holding the bag for everything. My attorney and I discussed if I could afford to do that, and since we were a two-income family, and since now I was pretty much a full-time single father, I decided to file.
I can tell you that your attorney will help you get through this. I know right now it probably feels like you are the only family that has filed for bankruptcy, and you might be tempted to feel shame in front of your attorney, but I can assure you, your attorney doesn’t see you that way. Attorneys see this quite a bit, and are usually very compassionate.
At this time, I would advise you to include everything in the bankruptcy. Most people get “proud”, and decide to hand pick a few creditors they will pay back; hoping to resuscitate their dignity by doing so. Don’t do it. I did, and I regretted it completely.
You may be able to work out a plan to keep your house. Your attorney knows how to do it if you can.
The main thing is to keep your chin up, as hard as that seems at times. The foundation of American Bankruptcy is Forgiveness of debt. Few people enter that lightly. You’ve already done the suffering; now is the time to start feeling the forgiveness. When you do, you’ll see things differently, and opportunities will come knocking. The hardest part about bankruptcy is actually deciding to do it.
You are already done with that. The rest is just technicalities. Now is the time for you to start your financial life over, and believe me, a life without credit cards is not only possible, but the very height of financial freedom. Forgive yourself first. Everything else falls into place after that.
Hey, Bill, thanks for sharing your story as it happens. Writing won’t make it better, but maybe it will help you see a path through the process for your family. Best wishes to you for a successful and swift resolution.
Thanks Teddy.
Michael Hudson on Guns and Butter this morning (link for archived program at WBAI) said that being the good borrower, paying everything back, especially on a losing loan proposiion, is seen by “savvy businessmen” as the right and only way — for the little people.
They get themselves out of any loan which isn’t going to make them money and feel it’s the wise thing to do. Huge real estate development underwater? Walk away; live to build another day.
But they do not want the little people to even know about those options. If they do know, they must be deeply, deeply shamed.
dayam — i’m so sorry that you have to do this
Hey Bill, my daughter and I built a business in Florida – a day spa. It was going great – actually turning a profit by the end of the first year. We had refinanced her house and my property to do the build out and were making extra payments to retire all that debt. We had 19 employees and new customers every day.
Then the housing crash.
Suddenly people with six-figure incomes were on unemployment. Those were our clients. Our business quickly tanked. We laid people off and struggled for a while but finally walked away once we got the eviction notice from the landlord. We also walked away from our fraudulent, sub-prime loan on my daughter’s house which was so far underwater by then that it made absolutely no sense to try to rescue it. I deeded my property to the second-mortgage holder (a family member) and he took over the loan on that one. That left the credit cards, my (uninsured) medical bills of over $20,000 plus all the business debt.
My daughter filed Chapter 7 because she had no assets. She is now free and clear of debt and building a new life with her significant other and new baby.
I filed Chapter 13 because I wanted to keep my car (a new Toyota Prius that I had paid cash for). After two filings, and a long, very protracted series of screw-ups by my attorney, which apparently included his paralegal telling the Bankruptcy Trustee that I had given the car away, my case was dismissed.
Now all the credit cards are coming after me again. I am now living on a Social Security Disability pension and I have written to inform them of this. Can’t get blood out of a turnip as they say.
Anyway, I don’t feel guilty. I didn’t cause the housing crash. I put my entire life savings into the business – and was providing jobs for 19 people. The credit cards made plenty off us in usurious rates, late fees, and the like, as did our bank near the end. I did pay off all the other mom-and-pop businesses that we owed money to, but that’s it.
I am living credit card free now, and it sure feels good not to have to write those checks and subtract all the interest payments from my paltry income.
Please don’t feel shame about this – I know it’s hard. But you (and we) did nothing wrong. The rich bankers caused this mess so if they have to take a hit – too bad. They created this problem, so let them eat the results.
All the best.
good luck
Thank you Bill,
It’s a sad but all too common story. Of course hindsight is 20/20. I wish you would not have waited so long to file bancruptcy. Your 401(k) assets are protected under bankruptcy law….SO HEAR THIS PEOPLE!! If you are in a similar situation as Bill, DON’T raid your 401k to delay the Inevitable!! It is SO difficult to get that money back in savings! In today’s world, all the rules have changed…there is NO shame in filing bankruptcy. Good credit scores don’t mean what they used to.
You didn’t do anything wrong. That’s important. The economy blew up due to bankster greed. Not your fault.
I follow real estate / foreclosure news closely. Banks sometimes don’t really want the property back and there’s enormous numbers of foreclosures now. The paperwork alone can take a very long time.
More than a few folks having been living in their foreclosed homes for months, sometimes over a year, without paying anything, because the bank isn’t doing anything.
Just saying…
I know someone who’s been living in his house without making payments for over a year now. Once the bank takes it, they owe the property taxes…
Bill, thanks for sharing. All the best to you and Liz.
I heard a Thom Hartmann segment the other day discussing this very thing (staying in your home without paying for anywhere from 12-18 months as your property wends through foreclosure proceedings). He had the CEO of a small corporation that provides advice for doing this very thing. I checked out the website, and it appears there IS a one-time fee . . . but if one is declaring bankruptcy or having their house foreclosed, the payment might be well spent, and provide a bit of breathing space in the interim. The website is http://www.youwalkaway.com
Well, I don’t know that we did everything right. We could have saved more in the past, we could have economized sooner. Still, the past is dead it is time to worry about the future.
Thank you Bill. I’m betting this series will help others who may find it too painful even to comment. Best to you and Liz.
Thank you Bill for opening your heart on this. I’ve been lurking quite awhile now but wanted to tell of my appreciation.
Thanks aview999 and welcome!
In all we owe $224,000…
I bet that doesn’t include y’alls share of the Federal deficit, which grows daily…like $1.72 million per minute, for the next ten years, a number that doesn’t include Obamacare costs, etc. Y’alls share of that runs roughly $40-75K each, right now.
Your spending looks bad, but nothing close to our Local, State and Federal Governments’ spending. So, if you think that your bankruptcy is bad, just wait to see what is going to happen to the governments in America, i.e. we haven’t seen nothing yet…
We know, we know. DEATH BEFORE TAXES
Actually, no, i.e. you are wrong wrong wrong. I don’t pay any income tax, anymore, but did file a return this year in order to collect a $3,971 credit from the government. I decided to get on Social Security two years ago, in order to stop helping the government. The government can tax your income all it wants to, and I don’t care…in fact, I hope they raise your income tax a lot more, and then give some more of it to me. I own my new home, have no debts, and live in a low property tax area (Dixie County, FL). Even when the VAT hits, it won’t be bad for me since I don’t spend much anymore, so they can make it a 50% VAT as far as I am concerned…
karmi. seems like you’re in deep doo, there. With a pound of apples looking to go for about $600 before the end of the decade, you better hope someone will want to pay for your inane gloating.
The government will force you to get 2nd & 3rd jobs to cover my expenses. When the government collapses, I’ll survive off the Suwanee River…fish, poaching manatee and gators (I live near Manatee Springs State Park).
You’re a true patriot.
O Beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam,
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
LOLROTF!!
Loo Hoo!!
Bill I went through this in the late eighties(my x screwed me and the kids & forced us into bankruptcy) and there is hope once you get through this process. Unless of course we don’t right this ship and the whole middle class is forced into bankruptcy, and if ya think about it that is not such a far fetched outcome, Then this country will surly7 collapse of financial ruin and why so the rich can gloat poor poor people, they would never agree to pay their fair share of taxes ya know!! … Best wishes to both of you.
And pray tell, where do you think that $3,971 came from? Fairies?
You are one of the main things that’s wrong with this country. Your mindless “I pay no taxes; hurray for [greedy, selfish] me” is immoral.
[fuckno @ 44 -- thank you. Your comment is right on.]
So karmi, do you drive on roads or over bridges? Where do you think the funds come from to maintain, build, repair them?
Do you eat food other than that grown in your own garden, or utilize medicine? Where are the funds for inspection to assure quality going to come from?
Do you breathe the air or drink water? Ditto re creation and enforcement of regulations keeping those from being totally toxic?
You collect social security? How are the workers whose social security taxes pay YOUR benefits going to be educated?
Do you go to a library, or to a concert or the theatre? Again, did fairies build and maintain these?
duncan’s remark directly above, “this is a society that favors sociopaths” applies not just to the criminals at the top, but to selfish people like you.
Your biggest mistake was refinancing your home mortgage “a couple of times”. Refinancing is nothing more than taking out what was once called a second mortgage. Once you used your home as an ATM your lot was cast. After refinancing you became in love with debt but debt is a scornful lover. There is an old jewish proverb “neither debtor or lender be”. Good luck in bankruptcy you earned it.
Looks like the trolls put out an alert urging their minions to come over here and slam you.
Ignore ‘em.
Eh. They are right in one sense, we spent more than we had and we borrowed to keep spending. The fact that we didn’t borrow to spend on extravagances is kind of a side point.
How dare you go into debt to buy food!!! You are supposed to starve to death and stop being a burden, of course. And make sure to make all your payments on everything else in the meantime. There’s a reason God made starvation a slow death! Grayson’s “if you get sick, die quickly” applies to economic illness in this exceptional country of ours as well as physical illness. Every one of your creditors has walked away from obligations for less reason than yours, guaranteed. Don’t let people who have no shame put you on a guilt trip.
The good news is that this is changing the way a generation thinks about our economy. The younger ones who have only known the crazy country don’t buy into the propaganda about paying off your debt to people who gladly screw others over no matter what or giving your life to a corporation that will only use you up and throw you out. They are wary of capitalism, not convinced that is what God intended. They are willing to go out into the streets not just for lower tuition but to demand reparations and restoration because they see that they have been systematically screwed and will be robbed of their very future if we don’t get back what the last few decades have taken away.
My wife and I went through a similar situation. I own a local business in a small city so some of the creditors are people I still see frequently. Yes, it is embarrassing. But you will get over it. Especially when all the calls and letters stop coming. You get to start over. That is what bankruptcy is about. You read enough to know many famous people have had “reversals”, (that doesn’t sound so bad now, does it?), including Mark Twain. You must do this first and foremost for your peace of mind, banks and cc cos expect this to happen and cover for it. They have no one working for them that lies awake at night and worries about whether you are going to pay them. If there a business or people you feel you are screwing you can still pay them back. You will learn a lot from this process and you’ll be surprised at how easy it will be to move forward without all the anxiety from the present situation.
1 – thanks for this brave post.
2 – btw may we all find every way possible big and small to screw these fuckers back.
3 – alas no entity on earth can pay the bill for industrial capitalism and its orgiastic resource depletion + infinite credit model + outscrew everybody uber alles ethos anymore. the earth and our minds are reaching their limit.
Best to you Bill and Liz.
Ron and I went through BK after two major illnesses. (The story has been told here and aboard often) Then we had two more major illnesses. Then our biggest client was sold to a Mexican company. We realized a year ago we might be able to pay our debts for a little while longer but could see the writing on the wall. We made the decision to stop paying everything except the utilities and house. Why send money to companies that had gouged us and most other Americans? Why support a system that is trying to take us down? I think we were ahead of the curve on this process. But we are judgement proof because we only have social security right now. This could change. The laws could be shift to advantage the corps.
Hey Mary, I am sorry you had to got through this. As you know from experience it sucks. Here is hoping things get better for all of us in the future.
B-
Thanks. You know, I never did feel any guilt. But I am one pissed off little old lady.
You will come out of this just fine. We all will learn to live differently and create a healthier community.
Morning Senator McCurnin.
I have read many of your posts on your trails and tribulations, you guys have been through the fucking wringer and ya sure didn’t need the scare of the other day. One of our progressive objectives should be to redefine Personal Bankruptcy back to what it once was… A new beginning financially without all these new Republican/Corporate changes the were push through to make more money for the lenders with no regard for people’s misery. I mean it went way to far in the direction of these predatory lenders..
How is Ron doing Mary? Acid reflux sure does bite it… I have been on meds for years to combat it and things sure have gotten better.
Ron is doing really well. I can hear him laughing right now. Thanks.
Thanks, Bill. I know exactly what you’re going through. I went through bankruptcy in ’07 and didn’t feel the least bit guilty. I hope that doesn’t sound callous or stupid, but the point is the system is rigged against people who have had no wage increases while CEOs make 400X the average worker. I am retired living on a disability pension and Social Security. When I got divorced we used a mediator and I believed everything was done with until after the papers came in a maxed out credit card in my name was dropped on me as an after-thought. Rather than go back and try to get things redone, I figured I’d just take care of it. But it wasn’t as easy as I thought it would be.
I tried going through one of those companies that say they’ll take care of negotiating with the credit card companies. They told me they’d deal with the creditors and I should send my payments to them; they’d divvy it up betw the cards. Well, I have been trained to know better and should have known better. After paying $2500 over 5 months to these people I got a phone call from BoA asking me how I intended to settle my debt with them. This wasn’t from a debt collector, it was from their attorney. I told her my arrangement with the debt service and she flat out told me that the company wasn’t recognized by BoA and they hadn’t received a cent. I told her there was nothing I could do aside from declaring bankruptcy. She actually started snickering over the phone. When I asked why she was laughing she said that someone like me wouldn’t qualify for chapter 7 under the new “reform” act and I should just work out a plan with this company she was going to refer me to.
The next day I was served with papers to appear in court in a month. I called a bankruptcy lawyer and saw him the next day. I wanted to keep my house and car and I was current on both so he said it shouldn’t be a problem but he wasn’t so sure I’d qualify as poor enough for chapter 7 and if i filed and I didn’t qualify I’d be forced to go through chapter 13 which is probably what the BoA lawyer was thinking of.
Well, I came in making $1000 less than the median income for my area (New York State) and I was able to go through Chapter 7. After having the credit card company lawyer laugh about my chances of making it through to chapter 7, I actually felt good.
It wasn’t easy but it wasn’t humiliating either. Once realized that I was ahead of the crowd, that other folks I knew would be going through this and maybe not coming out with chapter 7 but being forced to pay off the credit card companies through chapter 13 I felt OK.
You’re doing the right thing and if there was really any concern in this country for getting people back to work and making the economy work, there wouldn’t be “at-will” states and companies would have to show more than just nebulous reasons for firing someone and ruining their lives. Because in today’s economy coming by another job ain’t easy. I hope the martial arts experience works in your favor. Hell, this might even be a blessing in disguise if you’re able to open your own dojo.
Godspeed.
I am about to file too. Mine is coming about after a divorce in 2003 left me with the house, college age kids and 1/10th of the income. In that time I have had to replace 3 cars (and my kids are driving 14 year old cars now). The real trouble started when gas, oil and food shot up. Last year my son was out of work for all but 8 weeks. He’s been out of work since Nov. 1st and only got through to unemployment 3 weeks ago. (12.7% unemployment in our state and the phones – the only way to start the process – are constantly jammed). He finishes his bachelor’s degree next month with no prospects. My 26 year old daughter is high functioning autistic but working part time is all she can handle at this point. I made a hair under $30k last year and it is up to me to pay for the basics. Our household income dropped $10k from 2008 to 2009. I too raided the 401K I got in the divorce to buy a used car, pay off some credit card debt and pay my house taxes. I only have about 1/5th of the original balance left and I have decided to leave it there.
Thank you for your story, it takes courage to share what you have shared. I just want you to know that there is life after bankruptcy. We have an adult daughter with a chronic disease who became too ill to work and hence to get insurance. Without proper medication she will die. Not in a distant future but in days. Not in a galaxy far, far away, but in the bedroom across the hall from my own. To keep her alive my husband and I have paid out (and continue to do so) between $20,000 and $30,000 a year. This is not deductible because she is an adult, so its really a $20-$30 grand shave off the top of our salaries. When the economy went off the cliff, so did we. The embarrassment and shame around this topic is bull pucky in my opinion and is the way the criminals posing as bankers and CEO’s keep us from declaring bankruptcy. The damn banks and corporations walk away from their own all the time with narry a look back. Life after bankruptcy continues. For me there was more peace, the worst had happened and I could breath again. Sleep again. I sincerely hope you find that your life although different after bankruptcy is more peaceful. Thank you again, I never would have had the courage to share my story whilst in the midst of it as you have done. May you be a pleasantly surprised to find life is good once this is all over, as I was.
in quite a few cases if a person is unable to pay for lifesaving meds the drug company will give them at cost and sometimes for free. Check with the drug company that makes the drugs your daughter takes. I know a person who can not get HI and can not afford the drugs needed for cronic condition. He contacted the drug company, they give him his drugs for free.
I read this post with great interest. In these financially challenging times, my hubby and I are keeping our head above water. But it IS discouraging to see necessities (gasoline, food, insurance—both home, car and medical) continue to rise, while our disability retirement and small social security remain stagnant.
For a bit of levity, I thought I’d share one of my Mom’s recurring dreams. Mom (who is 84 now) used to regale us with her far-out dreams. In one, she dreamt that she and her best friend were going to rob a bank. She did the actual bank job, and ran out with her paper bag of goodies. When she opened it, to share with her friend, it was filled with graham cracker crumbs. (Was she prescient, or what. Crumbs seem to be all that’s left for the little guy!)
Once I asked her what she would do if she were absolutely destitute. She told me she already had plans: she would go into a U.S. Post Office, with her hand in her pocket in the guise of a gun, and rob the post office. Her logic: she would be committing a “federal” crime, and when found guilty would be incarcerated in a federal prison which, to her thinking, would be ever so much “nicer” than a state penitentiary. Further, her logic informed her that she would have a roof over her head, three meals a day, and free healthcare. Could our society devolve to such a level that this might serve as a Plan B for many of us? That’s a scary thought.
Back in 1998 I was in a similar position. Except that I was forced into medical retirement-not that they were wrong mind you-and during the 6 months that it took before my retirement started(I was only 48 at the time)I maxed out my credit cards, my wifes job went south-to China-when her entire company relocated(funnily enough they are relocating back to the US, this time in a southern state with low wages and no unions)in order to just have enough to pay bills like utilities and mortgage-like most other people we had been living right at our combined incomes. I found other jobs at much lower pay-well the retirement did finally kick in, at 57% of base pay-so that helped. And then-in 2002, more than 5 years after submitting my request to be reevaluated on my VA disability(the VA Dr had examined my left arm, not the right which had massive nerve damage and did not examine my back at all, so he had said that I had no disability)for my hearing I went in prepared with 18 Dr letters along with the 5 Drs from the Mayo clinic. So the VA sent me in for a new physical with the VA DR being told exactly what to check and what he would write down, after that the VA sent me to several specialists for more tests. In the end they finally gave me a rating of 100% disability. So I got back pay for the 5 years that they had been sitting on my request for a hearing, which really paid down my credit card debt, then in 2003 we put our house up for sale-before the housing slump-and not only sold it in 6 weeks, but had 3 people fighting each other for it. Wow. We got 25K over our asking price.Which had been 100% over the price we had paid to have the house built only 10 years before. We relocated to SoTexas where we built our dream house and due to the 100% disability and the way that Texas goes out of its way to treat vets, we got-in 2004-a 30 4.5% interest rate. Then Texas voters passed a constitutional amendment that stated that disabled vets would not have to pay any property tax. Which saved us about $4,500 a year. So things are fairly good right now, our car is paid off, all our credit cards are paid off, last year we finally finished paying off the last of the debt that we incurred in 1998/9. I wrote that to say this. There were a couple of times back in the years 1998 to 2003 where I came damn close to killing myself because I was so far in debt and could see no way out. You see, bankruptcy never occured to me at all, not once. I was raised to pay all my debts, every penny of them. I had, and still have, a very very high credit score. There is a small town bank back where I grew up that will, on my signature alone(and they did it once)give me 25K. As they will today if I wanted the money. No questions asked. I would have it the next day. I built that trust up over 30 years, with my parents before me doing the same. I would not jeopardize that for anything. It took 10 years after my personal crash-I had access to HI the entire time which was good as I was in the hospital a few times So now, 12 years after, we are finally out of debt and can start to look forward to being able to travel.
During the bad times we cut back to utilities and food. Got clothes from the SA store. No eating out. No fancy food from stores-basics only, I ate lots and lots of rice and veggies, meat once a month(maybe)(went hunting for good reason, needed the food)drink? water only. Kept the heat at 66 degrees during the winter, no AC in summer, wore sweaters and long johns. Cut out cable, got over the air stations. Got books from library, stopped buying the 5-10 books per month. Wife planted a veg garden. We got rid of my car-my 95 vette-and my wife sold her merc and replaced it with a Honda CRV. Got rid of computer. Sold all of my books. Got rid of 2 of our TVs. Started trading for labor and home repairs rather than using cash. We got our fresh fruit and vegs from relatives. I did not ask family for any loans. We just cut way way back. We found that we could in fact live on 15K a year. It was tight, but we did it. You will be surprised just how much you can cut back.
My first reaction: I don’t understand how someone faced with such debt can continue to spend on cable and books and eating out. Boggles the mind.
Agreed . . . no books or cable or eating out! I don’t know why Bill felt he needed to go see his dying mother . . . how ridiculous! And if Liz hadn’t gone to see a second doctor, she wouldn’t have needed a second surgery. Once someone gets into a situation like this they DESERVE to sit in a cave-like home with NO amenities; they are not ENTITLED to ANY meals out or recreation (even if it is only used books). They should spend their evenings praying and flagellating themselves for their irresponsibility. Timr and CalGeorge . . . you are right on! Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps (what do you mean, you have no boots?) /snark
When did cable and eating out become necessities? People who can’t afford those things do not lead cave-like existences and should not be ridiculed.
I think he was ridiculing you.
heh
(((Bill and Family)))
Hang in there Bill. I went thru a ch. 7 in ’92 due to a 6 mo. layoff during GHWB’s recession and uninsured medical costs for a household member. There will be light at the end of the tunnel.
One of the creditors told me about Consumers Credit Counseling Service, a nonprofit, but that wasn’t any help since they don’t serve anybody who isn’t currently employed.
You are right that bankruptcy comes at bad times. My mom was dying of liver cancer then. You can’t buy a plane ticket if you don’t have a credit card. Thanks to my kind employer I was able to attend her funeral.
I’ve never shared my experience with family, friends or employer. It does seem like a personal failing; even if you play by the rules you can still get burned. I had a lot of anger toward the credit card companies.
I later learned that despite a bankruptcy, you can get a mortgage loan 2 years afterward. I do have credit cards, but I don’t carry any balances: there are too many financial IED’s just waiting for one wrong footfall.
Be aware after the debts’ dismissal, there are unscrupulous collectors that buy lists of delinquent borrowers from creditors and will try to illegally collect on debt that has been discharged. Respond within the time frame to keep those vultures away.
Your brother-in-law is a saint to help you out. Best of luck to you.
Bill
Without going into details, please know that as you write about your present situation, you are writing about my future.
I once had a friend who came from Bronxville, NY. His father had been a banker, his mother a socialite and he (my friend) had enjoyed a comfortable and privileged childhood. He spent his working life as chief counsel for several high-profile corporations and was on the verge of retirement when we became friends.
Up to that point in my life I had always thought of bankruptcy as being something ‘shameful’ and it never occurred to me that this perspective was anything other than common and true. One day, we had a conversation that touched upon this subject and, after expressing my very negative views, he offered this (paraphrase): “Capitalism provides a means for people to take risks and be rewarded if they win; it also provides a means for the risk-taker to clear his slate and start over if he doesn’t win. There is no shame, degradation or embarrassment involved. Capitalism seeks to further its own goals, i.e. winning, and there is no stigma attached to ‘not winning’. Bankruptcy is simply the means by which the risk-taker starts over and, with luck, wins on the next ‘go-round’.
He was so clinical about saying this that I was stunned – and it dawned on me that, perhaps, my negative opinions were only the by-product of my (lower middle class) background and not some common, world-wide truism.
I’ve never forgotten what he said and I try to keep it in mind as I face the unpleasant prospect of my own dire circumstances but my class background keeps getting in my way. Someday, with luck, I hope to slay that dragon and make a clean shift to my friend’s clinical perspective.
I wish you and your wife well, Bill, and I’ll look forward to your future posts.
Bill,
My heart goes out to you and Liz. I found myself in a similar situation back in 2006 and nearly bit it then. I had been financing my small business on my personal credit cards and the banks were just about to suck my last breath. I had not been completely open about our financial situation to my wife and that contributed to the problem. I finally came clean, and bless her heart she stuck with me and we went and refinanced a home we owed 80,000 bucks on to my new mortgage of 180,000. I have been doing alright since, keeping may payments up and saving money. The up cycle may be coming to a close though, because my business has not had a new account in 9 months and my savings is starting to disappear again, only this time I don’t have the option to refinance. Your story is the story of millions of Americans, unfortunately. We may all have to start walking away from our debt, just like all those bankers did. The problem is, the bankers are not suffering, but the rest of us will. If I were a believer I’d say God be with you Bill. Hell, I’ll say it anyway. Thanks for the diary.
I’m owed a lot of money by a now-bankrupt company, and more by a company that may soon be bankrupt. Neither of these entities feels bad about screwing me. Of course, like you, I will feel like shit if I have to file BK. Funny how that works.
This is a society that favors sociopaths, plain and simple. Feel good that you feel bad, means you’re human, but try not to feel too bad. Whenever you have the urge to just remember those politicians debating the bankruptcy “reform” act. Yeah, those assholes who yakked about people, regular people freeloading and gaming the system, then went on to bail out the banks to the tune of a $ trillion.
It sucks. But this is what the Gopers and their neo-liberal allies want. They hated the middle class and they’re over joyed at its demise.
As I posted in a diary written this past week, I am also going through a bankruptcy; this Thursday I’ll be going to a 341 meeting. In Georgia, a Chapter 7 doesn’t allow you to keep your house, so I’ve filed a 13, hoping I’ll find a job before long. If I’m not able to continue to pay my mortgage and the trustee, I’ll be converted to a Chapter 7, and I’ll lose my home of 16 years.
How I did I get here? I was downsized in 2004, and have been underemployed ever since. I have over 25 years experience as software developer, but I don’t have a college degree. At one time, this didn’t seem to be as much of a hindrance as it appears to be today, but as millions of developer jobs are outsourced overseas, and hundred of thousands of H1 visa employees are given jobs here, the requirement for a degree effectively allows companies to sidestep older workers (because they tend to be more costly) and minority candidates (for many reasons).
I was divorced in 2007. I’ve never been a spendthrift. I was a saver, and conservative investor who lived a modest lifestyle. No McMansion. No hundreds of thousands of dollars of credit card debt, no luxury cars (I own a ’93 Miata), no flipping houses or real-estate shenanigans. I feel a little sad, but in no way ashamed; 9/11, corporate greed, and the Bush Recession were my undoing.
I remain optimistic, and I hope you and your wife will do the same. Thanks for sharing and good luck.