There are a lot of problems without the United States military tribunal system. Not the least of which is that we have set a separate track for some prosecutions when it comes to terrorism and terrorism related crimes. This leads to a confusion of effort but also risks the expansion of our gulag in Cuba.
Take the example of two men who were arrested in Kentucky. Waad Alwan and Mohanad Hammadi, two Iraqi men arrested in May on charges of trying to send Stinger missiles and other weapons to Al Qaeda related insurgents in Iraq. Both men were part of the refugee program that has allowed 56,000 Iraqi’s into the United States.
Mr. Alwan was, apparently, an insurgent himself who came to the U.S. with the intention of getting out of Iraq, where he was wanted, and gaining a U.S. passport which would allow him a much greater freedom of travel world wide.
He had been under investigation by the FBI since sometime in 2009. The details are sketchy but he had been working with an FBI informant who gave him weapons to ship to Iraq with the express intent of attacking Americans there.
All of this is pretty standard for anti-terror cases but it is when we get people like Sen. Mitch “Box-Turtle” McConnell involved that we see the perils of our “two track” justice system in regards to terrorism. The Senate Minority Leader is loudly saying that he wants the two men transferred from Federal custody to Guantanamo Bay.
Here is part of what he said, from the Courier-Journal article:
In a Senate floor speech, McConnell said he wanted to “get these men out of Kentucky.”
“Send them to Guantanamo where they belong,” the Kentucky Republican said. “Get these terrorists out of the civilian (court) system — and out of our backyards. And give them the justice they deserve.”
There are a lot of problems that that single sentence. First off it is hard to understand how a court system that is designed to let evidence that would never see the light of day in Article III courts be admissible is going to be any kind justice. (continued…)
Second, these men have not been convicted of anything, merely accused. It is to be assumed that the FBI has the goods on these guys (the FBI has a record of enticing people into these kinds of acts, and they mostly keep it together to get the evidence for convictions) but as of yet they are not convicted so sending them to a extra-legal prison in Cuba is problem for anyone that thinks the process of the law should be followed.
Third, Federal lock up is hardly peoples back yards. Sen. McConnell makes it sound like they are loafing around neighborhoods with ankle tracking bracelets instead of being under strict lock and key.
When he is not fear mongering the Senior Senator from Kentucky gives another spurious reason for wanting these men in military custody. He said in the same speech:
“I think it’s safe to say that a lot of Kentuckians, including me, would like to know why two men who either killed or plotted to kill U.S. soldiers and Marines in Iraq aren’t sitting in a jail cell in Guantanamo right now. When it comes to enemy combatants, our top priority — as I have said repeatedly — should be to capture, detain and interrogate. That wasn’t done here.
Interrogate is the key word here. You see Sen. Mitch wants to be sure that we don’t wind down our brutal and very probably criminal interrogation programs. Sure, the Obama Administration has drawn a line against torture of new prisoners, but that line leaves a lot of lee way and there is nothing Republicans want more than to have a revival of our torture program under the euphemism of “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques”.
By pushing the sending of accused terrorists to Guantanamo Bay, they put a veneer of legitimacy on the whole sordid affair in Cuba. This is, of course, based on the discredited idea that harsh interrogation is more effective than the scientific and proven methods of gaining trust over time.
The fact of the matter is that both of the suspects were questioned extensively by the FBI, both waived their Miranda rights and there was coordination with the intelligence agencies as well. This is how it is supposed to work. We arrest someone, we question them and then we charge and try them. There has never been a need to use harsh techniques or systems designed to subvert US laws to gather intelligence or prosecute those who want to commit violent acts against the United States or its troops.
It also ignores the fact that the Federal justice system, through the Article III courts has been incredibly effective at finding, trying and convicting accused terrorists. Where as the military tribunals have not been affective at all up to this point.
Before and since 9/11 every single terror suspect has been arrested inside the U.S. by civil authorities, instead of the military. With the exception of Jose Padilla and maybe one or two others, they have remained in civil custody until their trials and convictions (that there has never been an acquittal is another problem for another day). There has never been a retaliatory strike against any court or judge involved in these cases.
Most importantly, these trials are well within the boundaries of accepted law. The life sentence that most of the active terror suspects are sentenced to is basically air tight. There is no room for revue or reversal as there almost certainly will be in any military commission conviction.
The hysteria around the idea of trying terror suspects in the United States has always been manufactured. There is no reason why a case where people actually committed crimes, which terrorism is at its base, can’t be tried in our normal court system. It is only the Republican insistence on making terrorism some kind of bogey-man and using it to sharply curtail our civil liberties that has kept this meme alive.
Rest assured that we will be hearing more of this kind of bleating form Sen. McConnell and other Republicans. Like 99% of everything they say it will be bullshit, it will not serve to make our nation stronger or safer, but that won’t prevent them from getting on the floor of the House or Senate and saying it anyway.
Nobody likes terrorist fuck-wits. Nobody. However, just because there are terrorist fuck-wits in the world is not reason enough (as if there ever is reason enough) to subvert and weaken our legal system by making a separate class for them. The law is a fabric and you can not pull one thread without making the whole thing less stable. That is exactly what we are doing any time we expand the use of Guantanamo Bay and the military tribunals established there.
The floor is yours.




38 Comments

“Nobody likes terrorist fuck-wits.”
Question, is “Terrorist” a kind of dog whistle stand-in for N*igger?
Lets review:
“Terrorist fuck-wits” kill far less human beings than our boys in uniform. They send only a fraction of children under the age of 8 to their graves compared to “shock and awe”; they are not the ones hording 90% of the global resources while millions starve or die for lack of basic medical care….
Great post, recommended: it is no surprise that once allowed to flush the rights of other human beings (little brown people) US citizens would not be far behind.
No, terrorists are fuck-wits by definition. It matters not at all what color their skin is or what nation that they come from. My Irish relatives that were involved with the IRA were and are terrorist fuck-wits.
Excellent post, Bill and excellent point on skin color and terrorists. In fact the majority of terrorist acts/plots committed on US soil have been committed by white male US citizens–many of whom previously served in the U.S. military.
Timothy McVeigh, Daniel Cowart, James Earl Ray, Charles Joseph Whitman, George Pierre Hennard.
Those who think that Muslims invented suicide bombings never heard of Andrew P. Kehoe. http://iflizwerequeen.com/?p=7877
And age doesn’t seem to be a factor either: Earl Albert Moore age 65; James von Brunn age 89;
Bill,
affective should begin with an “e”.
The man is insane. This is where our problems with what is military and civilian cross lines. I can’t believe somebody on his own team hasn’t corrected him on this. Of course, anything they say or do is fine as long as it goes directly against the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
“And give them the justice they deserve”
I really don’t think it means what he thinks it means.
Exactly.
What a wonderful picture….and now we have more hearings about Muslims in America…Can we just stir up alittle more crazy fear? I thought our leaders, esp men, are the ones to be very courageous and brave? What has happened?
The repugs have to keep hate on the front burner for all to see. If they are not hating on a populace then it is an issue that is important to America.
You never hear them hating on the banksters.
The Harper’s piece about suicides at Guan. should be required reading for the turtle above.
I guess you are saying One of their own…What a crowd.
Agreed; the best/worst DonKeyHoTey yet. Just chilling…and a perfect metaphor.
“…especially men…” LOL!
Yes. Black hearted scoundrals!
Wait – didn’t The Clown™, aka Obama, campaign in 2008 that he would CLOSE Gitmo?
How could we send anyone there if The Clown™ closed it?
Oh, now I see…Obama LIED and never closed it.
And The Demented Left™ continues to support The Clown™.
How hilarious.
Okay, get it right. There was a vote of 98 to 0 in the Senate to deny any funding for moving any detaniees at Gitmo. No money means no closing the prison. It is not just the presidents fault it is still open. Try to keep up with current events, eh?
You’re correct, of course, but where is the outrage – whether moral or otherwise – from voters who wanted Gitmo closed? Where is the outrage at Obama, as well as at Senators who denied the funding?? Where is it?
Citizen complacency causes me to feel almost as much moral outrage, as I do when witnessing the b.s. Kabuki Show in Congress, the White House & the courts.
So have any potential war criminals giving cash to Mitch?
Not exactly sure what “justice” Mitch McConnell thinks is dispensed at Guantánamo. According to William Lietzau, who is in charge of the “justice” there, the people held there are enemy fighters who are being held for “duration of conflict” or until they are no longer a security risk, and are only brought to trial if they are additionally charged with war crimes, otherwise not, because detainees during war aren’t criminals in general. There’s no “justice” involved in that description at all, it isn’t a “justice system”. It’s a detention system.
Not saying that’s right or good, just saying that Mitch McConnell doesn’t know what he’s talking about even for the government’s point of view.
Mr. Alwan was, apparently, an insurgent himself who came to the U.S. with the intention of getting out of Iraq, where he was wanted, and gaining a U.S. passport which would allow him a much greater freedom of travel world wide.
Not caught by Army not a war Prisoner he can’t go to Cuba but Cuba is controlled by the Army who can make things tougher to visit his lawyer and maybe delay trial is Mitch hoping that He might be tried by stricter military law?
When it comes to enemy combatants, our top priority — as I have said repeatedly — should be to capture, detain and interrogate. That wasn’t done here.
Interrogate is the key word here. You see Sen. Mitch wants to be sure that we don’t wind down our brutal and very probably criminal interrogation programs
Are the cases in trouble are they hopping torture would give them confessions? Or maybe if Obama closes the military Prison is he hoping that they all get sent back if the prison closes and thus can’t sue? Can’t go to trial and God knows what worms that could dig up?
Ahem.
’round these parts, Boxturtle is not derogatory. I don’t see him around here defending himself, but woe unto you if he appears.
Despite the fact that McConnell is just a Senator up for re-election in 2014, he sure appears to thinks he’s judge, jury and executioner. Perhaps he envisions Kentucky modelled off of Laogai? Crane-Station is writing about the police state Kentucky has already become (see “Frog Gravy: The Kentucky Incarceration Experience,” June 14, 2011). Look at the videos she includes therein. Will the guy on the lawn mower now be required to go to Gitmo to satisfy McConnell?
Bill
“No, terrorists are fuck-wits by definition. It matters not at all what color their skin is or what nation that they come from. My Irish relatives that were involved with the IRA were and are terrorist fuck-wits.”
Question who has sent more people to their graves, the IRA or the British? The problem is any so-called “terrorist” group you name (label) is guaranteed to have a much lower kill ratio (by a factor of 100) than any so-called civilized (westernized) Democratic government.
The very casual use of the label “Terrorist” in my opinion has the same dehumanizing effect as “N*gger lover”; “kill a commie for mommy”; “the only good Indian is a dead one!”….
I agree. My ornate box turtle, Agamemnon, resents the hell out being compared with a vicious idiot like McConnell.
McConnell is not an idiot but a useful tool.
The McConnell as Turtle pic is priceless.
What galls me about these ‘tough guy’ Conservatives is that they’re just not all that tough. As a matter of fact, they are more often than not bed wetting, hysterical ninnies.
McConnell is afraid to have an ‘enemy combatant’ in Kentucky? Come on Mitch. Are you aware that the United States had more than 400,000 prisoners on its soil during WWII. Several POW camps were in … you guessed it … Kentucky.
We’re supposed to be more afraid of some medieval, bumbling Muslim radical than 400,000 POWs from Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan.
Grow a pair Mitch!
http://beeryblog.wordpress.com/
Monitoring GOP unAmerican Activities
“Question, is “Terrorist” a kind of dog whistle stand-in for N*igger?”
Wow.
Your mother never told you that you died at birth, did she?
Wait – let me get this straight from you.
Obama sent troops to fight in Libya with no congressional mandate.
But he cannot close Gitmo without a congressional mandate?
What happened is that he said he would do it, and he didn’t.
If I tell my wife, “Honey, I am going to kill the neighbore,” and I don’t, does that make me a liar or a truth teller?
Are you sure that your brain transplant took?
“You see Sen. Mitch wants to be sure that we don’t wind down our brutal and very probably criminal interrogation programs.”
Perhaps you can show me a court decision that stands that shows that our “criminal interrogation programs” are illegal, or have found to be illegal.
Unless you have some information to share with the class.
Every time we, as a nation, adapt or subvert our beleifs and behaviors in response to terrorism, we make terrorism effective.
When we divert resources from health and education to the military and law enforcement, the terrorists win.
When we subvert our national values of liberty and justice, the terrorists win.
Terrorism is asymetrical warfare – it is only effective when our responses are self-destructive.
ANd, to date, Islamic terrorists have been very successful.
McVeigh, not so much.
To quote Walt Kelly
“We have seen the enemy, and he is us.”
No, killing is bad, it does not matter who does the most, it is not a contest of death, it is that using violence against civilians is always wrong no matter who does it. Armies and Terrorists are not the same, though they have and do both kill civilians.
This constant attempt to redefine words is self-defeating. In the end every thing means whatever the individual wants.
If you want to say that armies are bad in that they kill civilians you won’t get any argument from me, but this redefining terrorism is bullshit.
Is it just me, or is anyone else really tired of Mr. McConnell?? For the life of me I cannot remember a single piece of legislation that this man has ever put forward. He just lingers on and on. He seems to spend ALL his time just plotting and scheming against the democrats. All I ever see him do is argue against anything and everything they propose but never actually puts any ideas out there that he originates. Plus I thought that the “Howdy Doody show” was canceled fifty years ago.
I don’t know any Kentuckians who are so damn afraid of trials.
Geeze frickin louise, Mitch – cowboy up a little.
We didn’t rush John Milton Elliott off to a GITMO during or after the Civil war, despite his treason against the US by siding with the confederacy and he was even put on the Kentucky Ct of Appeals after the war and he even had a statute erected in his honor.
“This constant attempt to redefine words is self-defeating. In the end every thing means whatever the individual wants. ”
That is my point exactly: you and like many other self-proclaim liberals have allowed the right to “frame” the conversation is such a way as to create a sub-class of human being that none of the laws or rules of humanity apply to. My God man, I can’t believe you are that thick! Don’t speak of “bullshit” when you are part of the sound machine that promotes and engages in the real time act of subjugating a whole region of people while hiding behind such transparent words like “Terrorism”. This word has power; the power to kill millions without a trial; the power to lock up people and throw the key away! Never hide behind what is popular and still call yourself a Liberal!
What a perfect Fascist framing from McConnell. How much easier it is to trade away the democratic institutions of the US–in this case the rule of law as administered by a public court system–for the efficiency of Fascism. Perhaps McConnell can muster the courage of his convictions, cut through the bullshit, and advocate for summary executions by executive fiat?
Ding!
If I didn’t know any better, I’d think the US wanted the terrorists to win so that they can keep providing the indispensable ingredient necessary to perpetual war. How could the fear-mongers like McConnell operate without them?
I don’t think I buy into your assesment that McConnell’s idea is that, “(b)y pushing the sending of accused terrorists to Guantanamo Bay, they put a veneer of legitimacy on the whole sordid affair in Cuba”. The “legitimacy o(f) the whole sordid affair in Cuba” has been well established in this country for a long time.
But as far as I know, nobody arrested in the US has been sent to Guantanamo. This would be the first time (and a beautiful set of facts) for doing so. It would set the precedent…and precedents, as we know, once set, are set in concrete. I think that’s the idea…Guantanamo for arrestees in the US.
Just think of all the effort and expense they could have saved on Padilla.
The cartoon picture of “Yertle the Turtle” McConnell is the funniest picture of him I’ve seen in a long while, maybe ever!
Yeah, Donkey Hotey is not always spot one but when he is it is a thing of beauty!