Let’s start with the disclosure; I like the idea of nuclear generated electricity. I am a technophile and the idea of using fission for electrical power is really an elegant idea. However there is a lot of room between the idea and the practical engineering reality.
Fission is a natural thing; there are even naturally occurring fission reactors in Africa. There is a spot where there are high levels of uranium in the soil. There are also springs in this area. What happens is that water fills holes with high levels of uranium and slows down some of the neutrons emitted, which makes them more likely to hit other uranium atoms and fission. This generates heat that boils off the water, which allows more neutrons to escape and the fission process slows down. Then the hole fills with water and the process starts again.
Now, these happenstance reactors are pretty much nothing like the ones that we generate our electricity in. Ours use refined uranium or other fissile materials and they are designed to generate a hell of a lot more heat over a much longer time.
This leads to the problems that we have with all that highly radioactive water and other waste. They have to be closely controlled as they are dangerous, in large amounts, to the environment and everything that lives in it.
MSNBC is reporting that there are a significant number of leaks of radioactive tritium. Tritium is a radioactive form of hydrogen. It is often a by product of fission reactors. It is often found in water and can contaminate ground water. 48 of the 65 power stations in the United States have reported leaks of tritium.
While the leaks of tritium have been small and really don’t pose a large threat to public health they are a sign of another problem that is much more serious.
For each reactor there are up to a mile of water piping underneath it. This piping carries water to and from the reactor; it is most often encased in cement, which is where the real problem starts. You see there almost no way to check on the integrity of these pipes without digging them up. And over time hot corrosive water tends to erode any pipe. Now remember that most of the plants running in the United States were built 30 or 40 years ago and you can see where this is all going.
As the plants age there is a greater and greater likelihood that pipe will corrode. Hell, water mains corrode and give out, so why shouldn’t these pipes? There is also a real issue with out-of-sight-out-of-mind with plumbing like this.
Here is an example from the MSNBC article:
At the three-unit Browns Ferry complex in Alabama, a valve was mistakenly left open in a storage tank during modifications over the years. When the tank was filled in April 2010 about 1,000 gallons of tritium-laden water poured onto the ground at a concentration of 2 million picocuries per liter. In drinking water, that would be 100 times higher than the EPA health standard.
There a quite literally hundreds of miles of pipes and tanks for moving and storing radioactive water at these plants. The chance of error like at Browns Ferry is very high, just given the amount of things that need to be watched at all times. That is before you get to corroding pipes that can’t be seen.
While the tritium leaks are a problem in and of themselves, the bigger problem is that the pipes they seem to be coming from are often the emergency system pipes that are supposed to bring cool water to the reactor and take away hot water in the event of a run away reactor accident, or a melt down.
If the pipes are leaking under normal low loads, what will happen if they are cranked up for full flow in the midst of an accident? There is no way to know, short of testing them or having an accident test them. If there is a failure in this kind of piping it could mean that the needed water to control the reaction would not be available and the core could be exposed. As we all know from the ongoing Fukishima disaster exposing the core can lead to all kinds of additional release of radioactive material and direct radiation.
So, what is the NRC doing to make sure that this is not a problem? Again from the MSNBC article:
However, even with the best probes, it is hard to pinpoint partial cracks or damage in skinny pipes or bends. The industry tends to inspect piping when it must be dug up for some other reason. Even when leaks are detected, repairs may be postponed for up to two years with the NRC’s blessing.
“You got pipes that have been buried underground for 30 or 40 years, and they’ve never been inspected, and the NRC is looking the other way,” said engineer Paul Blanch, who has worked for the industry and later became a whistleblower. “They could have corrosion all over the place.”
Nuclear engineer Bill Corcoran, an industry consultant who has taught NRC personnel how to analyze the cause of accidents, said that since much of the piping is inaccessible and carries cooling water, the worry is if the pipes leak, there could be a meltdown.
Yeah, the NRC is not doing a whole lot. It is trapped the way that the OMM was trapped. It has the dual responsibility of regulating and promoting its industry. These two tasks are incompatible, and when in doubt safety suffers. This is true whether you are regulating deep water drilling or nuclear power stations.
All of which leads back to where we started. I am a fan of the concept of fission powered electrical generation, but it is clear that no one in the world is ready to do the very stringent safety measures that it requires. The margin of safety is too small and the pressure to cut corners is too high. As groovy as nuclear reactors are to the geeky among us it is clear that they are too risky to use as a major source of electric power.
It is time to end our attempt with this form of electrical generation and put our money and efforts into establishing plants that can handle the baseline needs of an industrial nation, which is concentrated solar power. It is time to do this before we have our Fukishima.
The floor is yours.




31 Comments

I am not a fan of nuclear power. Splitting the atom to create electricity is a most inefficient method to create electricity. The byproduct of this process is 33% electricity (one time use) with 67% radioactive toxic waste with a half-life that spans generations. I read some where that it is like using an a-bomb to ring a door bell.
GE has designed 91 nuclear power plants in 11 countries, yet its nuclear reactors around the world have a fatal flaw. In the event of a nuclear meltdown, there is a 90 percent chance that radiation from GE-designed reactors would be discharged directly into the atmosphere. While the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission is aware of the problem, it continues to license GE nuclear reactors. GE’s history with nuclear power is an ugly one. and we are likely to have continued use of this inefficient, wasteful and dangerous method of creating electricity. Why? Because no less than 82 members of Congress own GE stock.
MORE ON GE
In addition, GE has be able to influence other media sources that it does not own through its advertising and sponsorship. For example, it cutoff a multimillion dollar deal to fund Audubon TV specials when its special on logging and ranching encouraged a campaign threatening to boycott GE products, PBS was a beneficiary of sponsorship by GE when it decided not to screen the Oscar winning documentary, Deadly Deception: General Electric, Nuclear Weapons, and Our Environment. In 1995 GE was sued by the environmental group Ozone Action for advertising its refrigerators as “o-zone safe,” when in reality they utilized ozone depleting hydrochlorofluorocarbons. GE has portrayed itself as an environmentally friendly company despite numerous occurrences that prove otherwise. Four of its factories are on EPA’s list of most dangerous industrial sources of toxic air pollution. It has also been sued in several states for environmental destruction ranging from radioactive waste found in sewage to the dumping of PCB’s into rivers. [SOURCE FOR GE FACTS http://www.herinst.org/envcrisis/media/ownership/nbc.html
which brings me back to square one–a root cause: Ownership of Wall Street stock in companies like GE, Goldman Sachs, Lockheed Martin, etc.
Until the American people wake up and realize DUH that there is a connection between their investments in these stocks as well as that of their elected officials ownership of these stocks and the problems we face, not much will change.
I regard anyone who owns Wall Street stock as part of the problem. Wall Street is nothing more than a corrupt casino for the rich. GE makes the mafia look tame by comparison as do ExxonMobil, Blackwater (whatever their name is today), BP, Massey Mining, etc.
Bill, thanks for this posting. I’ve been trying to get info on the Nebraska plant that is having troubles and the media has blacked it out.
Also, I caught an article the other day about the regulatory commission easing up on the regulations so that the older US plants can remain in operation. Plus, get this! Not only are several states storing spent fuel from plants in the US, we are now getting spent fuel from Europe to store. It seems that Germany is storing spent fuel in Tennessee now.
recommended reading!
You said it! I agree, 500 %! We should have a way to keep congress critters, the President, and the Supreme Joksters from holding any stock while in office.
There was an article in NYT yesterday. There are two plants that are surrounded by water at this time. The one in the most danger is in the cold shutdown mode. While they do have to keep water circulating it would take a hell of a lot longer for a reactor with all the rods in to heat all that water and boil it off then melt down.
It is not like Fukishima where some of the reactors were in operation when the tsunami hit. The operating temp of a core is much higher than the shut down temp. The only ones that melted down where the ones in operation at the time of the tsunami.
Both plants have stockpiled diesel fuel and are not expected to lose contact with the electrical grid. Also remember that just having water on the campus of the plant is not the same as having the buildings underwater.
Sounds good ,hope you’re right.
In a related note, the General Services Administration said that they’d be printing a pamphlet providing instructions how how to make your own glow in the dark watches /s
Where can I get a list of the leaky plants?
Holy crap, the nuclear power plants in Louisiana are located in places called River Bend and Waterford. Right. On. The. River.
Idiots. It is just a matter of time.
Diablo Canyon
Tsunami much?
All of them.
Seriously. The plants are old.
Well, here is the thing, all plants emit some tritium. They are allowed to in very small amounts. However these plants are ones where it leaked unintentionally.
If you follow the link to the MSNBC article you can see a map.
And most power plants are near water. That way they can put the used hot water (not radioactive, just hot) back in the river or lake or whatever.
When the plants were constructed external water cooling was the cheapest option.
With the (much needed) limitations on thermal water pollution since then that’s not the case anymore in many instances… but who’s going to pay for moving a fission plant and installing the massive air-cooled heat exchangers that would be needed?
And the tritium problem would remain as that comes from the internal steam loop, not the external cooling loop.
This AP article mentions some of them:
http://www.gazettenet.com/2011/06/17/75-percent-of-nuke-sites-have-leaked-tritium
This AP articles from yesterday discusses the weakening of safety reules:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AGING_NUKES_PART_1?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
My 2 cents (probably canadian)
Practical nuclear options are currently limited to two and of those options what the U.S. public hears about is… one. The one we have all the problems with.
The oligarchs wanted it that way. The core of their power was not rooted in the financial sector but was built on controlling access to energy via control of oil and coal, and they are not pleased with the thought of competition. Thus they tolerate the existing fission plants as a necessary evil.
The most sincere and committed anti-nuclear activists would probably die of shock if they realized that the charges by the pro-nukes that the oil and coal barons were supporting the anti-nuke movement had a kernel of truth in them. The support is very quiet… and very real. Or some may realize it and see no way around the dichotomy if they are going to stop the next Chernobyl or Fukushima.
And our lords and masters laugh their asses off. (And yeah, these assholes are invested in companies pushing both fossil and fission. All part of the routine for them.)
Briefly, the current permitted options are:
1) Uranium/plutonium fission which is most all current power units… and which is subject to criticality incidents and meltdowns and which also produces some truly hideous long-lived waste. (People didn’t really notice the last bit until Fukushima began introducing the concept into the public discourse via the public air and water supplies.) Also a serious proliferation threat.
2) Thorium/uranium fission. Better than U/Pu reactors as it has greatly reduced criticality risks and no meltdown risk (really), produces waste that is less dangerous and less longer-lived and Th/U units can even “burn” some of the current stockpiled waste from U/Pu units to boot. Also less of a proliferation risk. But the process is subject to the same tritium problem as U/Pu reactors. Currently pursued primarily by India and China.
Both of these types of processes involve using neutrons from the fissioning elements to boil water to to generate steam to spin turbines… and thus the tritium, which comes from the internal water “loops” and not from the cooling loops that go to the big cooling towers that people see out front.
A near-future option would be accelerator-driven thorium reactors, which have no criticality risks whatsoever but otherwise would be the same as Th/U reactors.
Thorium isn’t a magic solution, but the process has been known since nukes were invented and is much better than what we have now. But the oligarchs did not and do not want cheap power at reduced risk and they did want the proliferation possibilities that U/Pu units provide… a deadly leveraging game of “Who’s got the bomb?”
Future options:
Neutronic fusion, what most people think of as fusion reactors and not worth considering because it’s “always 50 years away…”
These units would also boil water etc. but would have no criticality incidents, no meltdowns, far less waste and far less dangerous waste than even thorium, greatly reduced proliferation risks and no tritium leaks… calmly now, remember to breathe, I’m not fibbing :)
While the most common neutronic fusion concepts do indeed use deuterium and tritium for fuel, and thus invoke almost instinctive reactions from nuclear critics, and the concepts do indeed boil water, the neutrons do not heat the water directly and that makes a real difference.
Instead a “blanket” of molten lithium is wrapped around the fusion core. The neutrons from the fusion process hit the lithium and heat it up and produce tritium in the process. The lithium is circulated out of the core, the tritium is extracted and piped back into the core, and the lithium is cooled with water…. which flashes to steam, turns turbines etc etc.
The cooling water is never subjected to the neutron flux in the core and thus there is no tritium in the water. And because of this separation of water from the core flux neutronic plants would have far less plumbing than fission plants and none of it would have to be buried in concrete for shielding.
But if the oligarchs don’t like the idea of thorium plants, and they don’t, then they really don’t like the idea of fusion plants. Vastly cheaper and vastly safer than fission or fossil? Can’t let the proles have that, milords!
And our owners have succeeded in fucking that concept up quite nicely… quite nicely for them, that is. Fusion research, over the decades, has been quietly but firmly corraled into a dead end.
And finally, aneutronic fusion.
Recently researchers and investors have been putting time and some money into this concept. Fusion that does not rely on radioactive fuels, neutrons, or boiling water. Electricity directly from the core. It is difficult, but it might be coming within reach, shortcutting all the deliberately hamstrung neutronic fusion research… and it would punk all other power sources combined if it can be achieved.
But fusion would be several diaries in and of itself.
I do wish they’d fix the myfdl comments… I’d feel irresponsible if I posted a diary and then couldn’t chase the comments up and down the page often enough to be sure of reading them all.
There are I believe a total of 104 reactors in this country, and 82 of them are over twenty five years in age. The problems you detailed above are waaaaaay far from a complete picture. The regulatory agency involved, just like pretty much every other regulatory agency in this country is “Captured” and useless. As aging inevitably brings new problems to light, rather than find solutions…………..the regulatory standards are simply lowered.
I mean……………..can’t, diminish, profits, or dividends; so by lowering safety standards, you’re still in compliance.
Elegant solution no?
Our Fukushima is just a when, not an if.
And if our Fukushima were to occur at one of the currently flooded plants, there are 20 years of spent fuel rods stockpiled there waiting for the disaster to overtake them. Why? Because we have decided that it is OK to indefinitely postpone finding a solution to that problem. In point of fact the stuff is so poisonous and long lasting that there is no solution. None.
“While the leaks of tritium have been small and really don’t pose a large threat to public health they are a sign of another problem that is much more serious.”
Can’t even believe you’d make that statement Bill. Radioactive pollution is cummulative. And then pretty much lasts forever while diminishing the quality of untold numbers of lives.
You said above that you like elegant ideas. Here’s one for you. As Fukushima unfolded, I think you’ll agree that a resolution isn’t even yet in sight, several of the worlds still democratic, civilized, adult nations………foreswore nuclear energy. Because it was the best thing for their people. What has the U.S. done? “Doubled Down” and reaffirmed our commitment to nuclear energy. That’s what you do when corruption has spread like a cancer and all that anyone in power cares about is money.
Bravo for arriving at your final conclusion. Too bad we don’t still live in a democracy.
Thanks for the info on Throruim fission, I was just starting to read up on that.
You are wrong about fusion though. The issue that is preventing fusion from working is that we can not control the turbulence of the reaction in the current generation of tokamak.
We can start a reaction, we can’t sustain it. The Japanese as part of the world wide consortium working on fusion have a new one they think will address this but it is not operational yet (at least I had not heard that).
Fusion is super easy to start, it is controlling and sustaining it that has been the engineering problem.
I understand, but the amount of tritium released is really small in most cases. Parts per billion. Less than a single X-ray from drinking it, even though it stays in the system until it decays.
And my final conclusion is one I’ve been at on civilian nuclear power for a couple of years. All the incentives are in the wrong place and the consequences are too grave to roll the dice on.
It is like at the end of War Games, the only way to win the nuclear power game as it is played now is not to play.
Mr. Ignor, I’m not sure why you want to dismiss the danger (“less hot”) of the spent fuel when it has nowhere near the CONTAINMENT STRUCTURE of the “hotter” active fuel. After all, isn’t this all about containing the release of ANY material? Because of the containment issue alone I think you have it back asswards. But nuke proponents have always espoused that the real danger/potential damage is the active fuel.. (not really, back to containment issue as the Japan deal has shown)…to avoid the costs of SAFE CONTAINMENT/STORAGE of the spent fuel. Sorry, but degree of “hotness” is a silly argument in teh face of the containment issue. When cooling goes away, active fuel or spent, containment is all you got, Japan just proved that. Nice try though. NEXT
Umm – Pressure test?
Cathodic Protection? (aka: Zinc Plating)
One the whole I’m unenthusiastic about any technology where the default position is “on”.
I like my “off” switch. Off is good.
“On” and “On more” is inherently unsafe. Ask any Chernobyl or Fukushima resident.
Not true.
It can be converted into materials that can be easily handled and safely stored in one of three ways:
Nuclear waste can be “burned” for additional power in several types of reactors such as the thorium units I mentioned upthread. The Th units would produce less waste and the waste would be far less hazardous than the crap from the current reactors. It would have a hazardous lifespan measured in centuries, not geological ages.
Neutronic fusion units could also burn the stuff, with less waste, and less hazardous waste than the thorium units.
Or you could use particle accelerators to artificially “age” the waste. Burn it out and vitrify it, stack the glass bricks in a cave and truly forget about it. This is where aneutronic fusion would shine.
Going totally non-nuclear will have several unfortunate results: the one that applies here is that “no nukes” will do nothing about the many thousands of tons of nuclear waste that already exist. The waste simply cannot be allowed to stay “as is.”
Can’t even believe you’d make that statement Bill. Radioactive pollution is cummulative. And then pretty much lasts forever while diminishing the quality of untold numbers of lives.
Not true.
While some radioactive waste will remain dangerous for more than 10,000 years, other forms of waste will decay to harmlessness in a matter of centuries, years or even months.
The Tritium that is currently leakng will not be a hazard within a century.
Would you want to drink water from a fission steam loop outlet? No. And thus the tritium leaks are troublesome. The amounts so far really are small… but what happens next?
Still, blithely assigning all radioactive materials the same properties will only weaken your arguments… and in a way actually puts you on the same level as the nuke PR flacks with their “it’s all good” bullshit. Not a desired outcome, I think.
As I said, that leaves the waste problem unresolved.
Another side effect is that first geopolitical upheavals from climate change are going to start hitting much sooner than the elites suspect and the infrastructure needs and lead time for solar and wind will not be able to be built up fast enough to cope with the millions of people from shattered and displaced populations on the move.
Small nuke units, even the nasties we have now, could save millions where strict reliance on renewables could not. And more advanced units could save even more with less drawbacks. (Yes, even small fusion units are feasible… the gigantic ITER style tokamaks are the oligarch-mandated dead end I mentioned upthread.)
Interesting wiki to read about the National Ignition Facility, the laser-fusion experiment, at Lawrence Livermore Labs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility
Hard to separate the good bits from the sketchy bits, but still pretty intriguing.
The “good bits” are the bits relevant to producing fusion bursts that can help to refine the code used in weapons design… which is the actual purpose of the rig.
The “neat bits” are the bits that should give more insight into certain types of fusion reactions under certain conditions.
The “sketchy bits” would be those bits that somehow try to portray the NIF, with all of its precise requirements and tolerances and exacting fuel capsule specifications, as some sort of predecessor to a fusion power generator.
Even if inertial confinement can be made to work economically as a power source the result will look almost exactly nothing like the NIF.
The NIF is an awesome research tool and should serve its actual purposes well… but the rest is hyperbole from an administration dimly aware of the catastrophe barreling down on us all but has its nose stuck so far up the nearest oligarchic ass that green diarrhea is running out of its ears.
“In drinking water, that would be 100 times higher than the EPA health standard.”
If Republicans had their way, there would be no EPA to regulate contaminants like this.
Food for thought.
What is true, is that while many at least partial solutions are possible, we are not now, nor have we ever done, nor are we preparing to do, a single one of them.
Why? Because we are transfixed by fear. We won’t even allow the waste to be transported.
Sort of a large glitch in the utilization of this technology dontcha think?
I don’t expect common sense to break out here in this country any time soon either.
I hadn’t noticed that they’d gone to an inert gas coolant instead of water… that would seem to take care of the tritium leakage and reduce proliferation risks even further. Cool.
No, I was correct about fusion :)
Why is what little money that goes into fusion research always channeled into something that’s always decades away? The following is from a comment I wrote over at Bradblog … an eclectic bunch over there :) …
Okay, here’s the condensed version:
(yes, this is the short version)
Fusion power research veered down a wrong path in the late ’60s, encouraged by Russian reports of promising results from a device called a “tokamak.” or “tok” for short.
If tokamaks could be made to fuse hydrogen isotopes the result would be much the same as with a fission reactor: the neutrons from the reaction would be used to heat water to spin turbines to provide power.
Also as with a fission plant the neutrons would activate (make radioactive) materials in the reactor and the reaction byproducts would contain a range of radioactive elements depending on the isotopes used as fuel.
But (and it’s a big but) the fusion plant would provide much more power than a fission plant and would generate far less nuclear waste than a fission plant and the waste would be much less hazardous and much shorter lived…
… and meltdowns or explosions or any other runaway reactions are simply not possible in a fusion plant.
So it was a worthwhile effort.
But (the other big but) the goal kept slipping further away as research progressed. A tok tries to hold a relatively large field of very hot plasma stable long enough for fusion reactions to occur in the plasma. But the bigger the field and the hotter the plasma the more the field wants to become unstable. “Unstable plasma” sounds like a setup for a dramatic Star Trek scene but in a tok it does… nothing much.
The chase continues. It continues to this day. And yet the target of actual fusion power from a tok is further away than ever.
The oligarchs noted that tok research kept slipping and as fusion was a potential impactor on their overall grip on power sources they… encouraged… governments to keep chasing that rabbit down the money hole.
Here it gets depressing in a manner that is all too familiar. The amount of money that the U.S. spends on fusion power research is pitiable. Considering the importance of energy the fusion budget is actually criminally small. Can you guess why? I know, rhetorical question.
But scientists who want a slice of that research money must forsake all other fusion methods and chase the tok and so yet again you have some of the people most committed to improving matters, fusion researchers, doing the bidding of the oligarchs without realizing it… or doing it because they can’t see any way around it.
As you look into the fusion startups you will hear repeatedly from researchers who had pointed out that some method or the other had surpassed the tok already in some way or the other … and they were told to shut up or start walking. The frugal funding for fusion would vanish if the boat was rocked.
Many of the fusion startups skip the whole problem by operating in pulsed mode just like the NIF… but without billions of dollars in finicky lasers and delicate equipment.
Others use different confinement methods such as electrostatic confinement and hope to operate relatively small plasmas with high fuel ion collision temperatures that can be sustained beyond where the huge tok plasmas become unstable.
And damn little government funding for any of the stuff that’s actually showing progress. Not because “government doesn’t work” but because government is working all too well… for our owners.
On, and On more.
You’re funny.
Ditto.
Here’s another dimension of this in addition to what is brought up by zapkitty, June 21st, 2011 at 9:47 am. The present issue of the City of Portland staying in control of its own water supply is at complete loggerheads with Wall Street’s plans to completely commodify water and consolidate control of all water at the regional level but of course at a Wall Street extraction fee and all the risks of playing water futures which get wrapped into CDSs/CDOs. Guess they haven’t even thought about the effects of this plan on nuclear safety, huh? Time to put these people out of business so humans can have a future on this planet.
ITER is the official oligarch-endorsed U.S tokamak fusion project.
It is what is designed to suck up most of the available fusion funding.
Perusing ITER press releases can be amusing, frustrating, enraging, depressing, laugh-out-loud hilarious… and then there’s this one:
http://www.iter.org/newsline/181/763
Yes, that is the official state of fusion research.