Tweet
Fred Clark Campaign by WisPolitics.com
So the Democrats in Wisconsin came up short in their efforts to flip the State Senate in recall elections. On the binary tally of win-lose, it is a loss. But I am not sure that is the complete story.
It is still an historic effort and that also has to be scored as a win. Remember how we got to these elections in the first place. When the Republicans gained control of the both Houses of the Legislature and the Governors office, they set out on a path of policy that incensed many Wisconsinites.
Their hard right policies and the way they went about enacting them mobilized tens of thousands of Union members, workers and average voters. They went out into the bitterly cold Wisconsin winter to make their extreme displeasure known, and when they were ignored they took advantage of the process to try to recall the six Republican State Senators that were eligible under the law for recall.
They faced an uphill fight all the way. Getting the signatures in the right amount of time, faux Democratic candidates running with the explicit purpose of slowing the process down and allowing out of state money to work longer.
We should not discount that money. Millions and millions of dollars from the Koch Brothers (the nominal owners of Gov. Scott Walker, or maybe they just lease him?) and Crossroads GPS have poured like the Red River in flood into the state.
Then there is the fact that all six of these Republicans were elected in 2008, a year that was a wave election for Democrats. These are what you would call “safe-seats” for Republicans.
All of these made this a truly epic struggle, and yet the people of Wisconsin went out and came within a hair’s breadth of achieving the ultimate goal of flipping control of the State Senate. That they failed by one seat is a pretty strong indicator of how close this really was.
Dad always said (yeah, he was a huge one for sayings) “Nothing ever beat a good try but failure.” Sometimes you do all you can and you still come up short of the goal. But a lot of that determination of failure is dependent on what your goal is.
If you have multiple goals there can be a range of success and failure. Last night in Wisconsin we did see an overall electoral defeat, as long as we focus on the idea of flipping the Senate, but was that really the only goal?
There are two new Democratic State Senators. These are Senators from deep red districts, they won districts designed to be uncompetitive for Democrats. That is pretty impressive in and of itself.
Then there is the larger overall issue of accountability to the voters. On that front I’d score this a qualified win. No one wants to face an election out of cycle. There are a myriad of reasons for this from funding to having to reconstitute a campaign organization to just having to focus on getting elected instead of passing legislation. By forcing all six of these Republicans to defend their seats the people of Wisconsin made it clear they are watching and will make their disapproval known in the strongest possible terms, namely by threatening their jobs.
It is the way that politics should work. You can not always control the outcome but you can control the effort and that effort in Wisconsin was outstanding. While the final outcome was not all that people had hoped, it is a model for what needs to be done if the people are going regain their say in the way they are governed.
While the Democrats did come up short, they have reduced the margin in the State Senate to one vote. If it had been that margin earlier in the year, Governor Walkers union-busting bill would have failed. There was a Republican who voted with the Democrats and that one vote would have made all the difference.
Now instead of being able to power things through the Senate, the Republicans will have worry about every hard right policy they want to enact. If all the Democrats have to do is flip one vote, that is a very different calculus then if they have to flip three.
So, some wins, an overall loss and maybe some hope for the future. As people powered politics goes, I think it is all a good thing.
The floor is yours
122 Comments
There’s still Walker in January. if he hasn’t redistricted everyone but republicans from voting.
Accidentally watching GMA this morning (for the weather) and not a mention of this.
“We should not discount that money. Millions and millions of dollars from the Koch Brothers (the nominal owners of Gov. Scott Walker, or maybe they just lease him?) and Crossroads GPS have poured like the Red River in flood into the state.”
CNN reported that EACH side spent $30 million on the recalls. Is that true?
Yeah! That is a great point. This does not have to be over. And it shouldn’t. A Walker recall election is the next logical step. And Nate Silver of 538 says the data at this point makes it a toss up as to who will win.
That is the number I have heard too.
Spin it however we want, DEMOCRATS LOST BIG TIME, and to the general public the Fitzwalkerstan “mandate” has been validated. I will probably never return to the state of my birth, even to vist the UW Memorial Union terrace one more time.
We’re likely to lose one of the two Dem seats next week.
The statewide recall of Walker still has legs, but they’re wobbly, and if nothing is done about Waukesha county’s clerk in the meanwhile, the result is foregone.
Sorry to be so gloomy, but it’s not a victory. Walker and his crew are doing the happy dance today.
Finding God in Madison
If there is a god, or creator or essence, it is present among my people in the rotunda, in Madison, Wisconsin. This god dwells among the common folk, the young, the old and the worn out. The black, the white and the blended. The gay, the straight and the ambiguous. The strong, the weak and the caring. The believers, the non-believers and the confused. It doesn’t matter what pile we are assigned to, we all share a common belief in human rights …
Article:
http://beeryblog.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/finding-god-in-madison/
A dispatch from the front.
Here’s the thing: Democrats suck almost as much as Republicans. Many people get that and don’t bother voting. Even in a recall with union busting, etc at stake. And Republicans always motivate their base. The emphasis on these recalls were a bad idea from the beginning.
The protesters should not have stopped the protests and put their faith in Democrats and recalls. Direct action was a much better strategy. What we saw was all the populist momentum co-opted by partisan politics. This has now been demonstrated to be a failed strategy.
Aren’t 3 democrats up dor recall as well? Teh R’s do like their one0two punch fights.
Whether these dems will be recalled depends, again, on the district.
“…will make their disapproval known in the strongest possible terms,…”
With that and dollar I can buy a cup of coffee.
I would, at this point, prefer to be writing copy for the republican side of the messaging war. It is much easier now for the republicans to say that the voters support their agenda by voting for it twice.
Before the dems could complain that Walker ran a stealth campaign and the voters didn’t know what they were voting for. Can’t say that anymore.
What was previously a vote against the ineffective dems has turned into a vote for republicans.
That is not born out by the numbers of voters in Wisconsin. In a lot of wards the turn out was at presidential election levels.
Two are left. One easily won last week. And these two are trending ahead of their challengers.
As SD says, Right On.
I totally agree with you and it’s nice to see the positive aspects. We were talking downstairs about this and cbl made an excellent comment:
“I feel comfortable speaking on behalf of many old school socialists here – it’s a marathon not a sprint – and as energizing and ‘sexy’ as protests are, it is the up and the doing that must be done – I am deepy grateful to everyone engaged in the WI effort – they provided us all with a real time validation of what progressive history has taught us – organize and strengthen your position locally, it is the only thing that has ever worked”
There are two Democratic recall elections coming up. I hope that the battling Badgers can keep up the momentum and enthusiasm to protect those seats.
One thing that we did learn is that the Kochs et al were willing to pony up $10 per seat for every seat they kept and $200 a Republican voter. That means that the recall of Scott Walker could suck up as much as $200 million.
One dem already won last month, two more are up next week (the 16th I think).
Don’t underestimate the impact of the State Fair “riot” last week, either. Racism is alive and well in WI, especially in the near suburbs where Roberta Darling dwells. The timing of that couldn’t have been less helpful, although I’m becoming more convinced the deep divide is real, not just due to inept Democratic politicians failing to call out the Republican stealth agenda.
Yeah, people tend to lose focus in America if our efforts do not immediately bear the fruit we want.We’re going to have to get over that instant gratification stuff.
Because that attitude is basically what’s gotten US where we are today.
It’s going to be a long hard slough, unless we go London and then, they’ll just kill us.
Remember to donate if you can to Walker’s recall and even do phone banking if you can.
If we can even come close to pulling down one of these titans, we’re going to really energize people.
Otherwise, we’re “also rans”
The ‘conservative’ so-called ‘right’ have done an excellent job of collectivizing the LGBT community and gay marriage issues with the so-called ‘left’.
The reason the Republicans hold so much sway with that crucial 3% of independent voters even though they swindle said 3% with impunity is that they don’t like the idea of gay marriage and homosexuality being an acceptable alternative lifestyle.
It may be bigoted and short sighted, but I really think that is the fear that people would be willing to trade Social Security and the right to be in a Union for.
It is a vote against hard times and against taxes that go nowhere but up. This is how Hitler got in. Another victory like this and we are ruined.
I feel as if perhaps the midwest, and perhaps by extension the nation, is irredeemable. American democracy is powerless in the face of corporate oligarchs and their enablers in organized religion. At this point I’d welcome a schism of the nation with open arms. The fame, was rigged but we gave it our best. Some people aren’t worth saving mainly because they refuse to be saved. We won’t get an American Spring, we’ll have a night of long knives instead.
Bill,
Thank you for the post. This gloom and doom has got to stop.
Next year every Rep is up for election and that is another opportunity to turn the tide. Walker has to be walking on eggshells right now while doing his “happy dance.”
I admire the Wisconsinites for having the courage to work so that yesterday even happened. Good on them.
If the Repubs. in Wisconsin continue to shred the state of it’s assets, more and more will become disenchanted with them.
You have to remember too that these districts were in the farm country. Farmers are notoriously conservative and think unions are just for lazy people who want more than their share.
I know, I come from farming families on both sides….democrats, tho
*the game was rigged
And… watching the Ed Show last night, the average citizens he was interviewing, well, let’s just say they didn’t come off as looking too very literate on the issues. It was as if they knew what they wanted to say but couldn’t quite get the words out.
Maybe it was the deer in headlights affect of being interviewed on national television, but it just didn’t look very good to me.
The influence of the big out of state money has been cited several times here and elsewhere as playing a big part.
Prior to Obama’s primary run, I never gave any money to any political party or politician. Since dipping a toe in those waters, I have donated to Halter in Arkansas, PCCC in The Wisconsin race and various other issue oriented efforts.
I do not see where I have gotten any return on my money, other than a modest amount of self-righteousness and really don’t have all that much to begin with.
My pockets are almost empty and I am sure I am not alone.
And not just gender, but religion and guns as well. The old guns, god, gays trigger is alive and well.
The union angle was hardly mentioned in the Dem campaigns.
makes one wonder if the White House will be going to their plan B after these results from Wisconsin. That is if they had a plan B.
Think my toast are burning.
I’m trying to be honest with myself as well as with all of you. My family has been in WI since 1848. What I see is very real division, a breach that’s widening. The other side is at least as motivated as ours. That’s why we see presidential election turnout. They got out their voters, too, and without having to storm the capitol.
It’s not just money, although the money allows the winger media here to spread their message, but it’s a message that confirms what at least half this state wants to hear.
What scares me is the open hostility to the left side. You can cut the disdain with a knife.
And they’ve got him lined up: Perry
They were extolling his “job creation” and “balanced budget” on GMA first thing this morning.
WE know how he did that, but most everyone else doesn’t. I expect him to be the next president unless unsavory details come out…or the corporations are happy with Obama.
Romney doens’t have a chance…not enough of a showman
You’re right, but it’s awfully late in the game
It is not a complete loss. But it makes it crystal clear, this will not be easy or cheap. It appears the stars, as well as the Kochs, are aligned against us. There is also a wide division between the left and right just as there is in DC. How could we be this far apart?
I was very active in running elections some time ago and we had a hell of a time winning as Dems on an off year. So to me this is a victory because they did take two seats in this off year. The guy they really need to take off after is Walker because the votes will be state wide and they can really work the Dem pockets of that state. They also need to do something about that lunatic running Waukasha Co Elections. She needs to go to jail.
I think it was severely important to flip. It didn’t flip. The rest is wound-licking. Not that it isn’t good to do so, but merely asking the question, to put it into a better light, begs the question.
They continue. We don’t, and won’t so long as the Republicans have little to nothing to fear, which they don’t. Not even themselves. They are their own worse enemy.
Look, I might be willing to listen to their basic position on balancing the budget, but this business of protecting very rich and shielding corporations from taxes makes their position untenable.
media
media
media
Let’s just say I have a better understanding of the rise of fascism in the thirties in Germany.
Indeed, Sharia Law may take my .44 away.
My roots are in SE Wis. in an area now represented by Republican Senator Mary Lazisch. A recall petition was started against her but the sponsors couldn’t collect enough signatures. I have relatives who live in the area, one of whom is on Social Security and the other has been unemployed for three years. I think they are somewhat representative of the area economically. Yet they talk and vote extreme right wing Republican. When I visit the Milwaukee area, there’s an almost palpable sense of hopelessness and despair, which the Republicans exploit by fanning denial and happy talk. People are not moved by facing facts about their futures. They’re more stirred by magical thinking.
Another thing: the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel published a “news story” on Monday evening about how much Walker’s law will “save” the City of Milwaukee. Mayor Tom Barrett and city officials don’t entirely agree but the Journal-Sentinel, the largest paper in the state, is reprinting the Koch/Walker propaganda. Little wonder the Republicans did well.
No this was not a big loss. It would have been if they did not take one seat. This is an off year election with Labor running in Republican districts. Republicans hate Labor…probably more than they hate Obama. What this tells me is that they need to go after Walker really hard. I think he can be beat.
farmers.
beneficiaries of a lot of government assistance, which is often regarded a right, and intolerant of anyone else receiving anything similar.
“Next year every Rep is up for election …”,
As are all of our congressman and the president. It is a national election and I am not seeing any message out of the democratic party that makes me want to vote for them.
Does anybody really think “we’re not as bad as the other guys” is a winning message?
It is likely that the republicans will nominate somebody crazy enough to allow Obama to slip through to a second term but I don’t see that as having a long coattail effect in down ballot races.
Jane, if you are reading this, have you ever been interviewed on The Real News with Paul James?
If you guys haven’t visite his website, here is an interview that is an example of what I think would be a good model for progressive television. http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=7092 TRNN Replay: “Rob Johnson: For GOP and Dems easier to make people pay for crisis than confront big campaign funders”
These are points that we discuss here at the Lake, but that are never allowed to reach the people who watch corporate media. I wish there was a way to partner with Paul.
I love Keith and Current, but I think Paul James trumps then.
As Sonny and Cher said, 2 out of 6 ain’t bad.
Remember , these are REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS of Wisconsin. You bet they had heavy turnouts. Those Republicans come out for everything, If you ran someone in an election to sell ice cream at a neighborhood park you would see tons of Republican voters. We have Democrat areas in Minnesota that if the Republicans had Jesus walking them around the neighborhoods they would not win. Frankly I am surprised that Labor even bothered to spend the time and money in these districts that were so heavy with Republicans. I would have spent my money on Walker where I could have hit him with votes state wide.
Lets face it,the reason people kept the Republicans in control of the Senate is because many voters resent the wages and benefits and pensions that public employees have and they don’t have and they support removing many of these benefits from collective bargaining and regulating them by law.Its being done all over the country,both in red and blue states.
Frankly,I fail to see a policeman who makes $106,000 a year as they do where I live in New Jersey as a member of the “working class”.If the Democratic legislature passes a law which forces him to contribute more towards his pension and health insurance,as thy did recently here in NJ,I have no problem with that law.
Remember folks, you can really arouse the electorate by convincing voters to take someone out rather than put them in. The last thing a Republican voter wants is for Labor to be in. I view this election as not so bad. I am still disappointed that with what is going on in this country it is still hard to get people to the polls. It was tough in the 80′s and it is still tough today.
yes, what probably tells you what is coming down the pike…London
Wait until Social Security is hit this fall………..
Yeah, that’s a great strategy. Tear down the benefits and wages that others have worked and bargained for in order to make it worse for everyone.
The Great Equalizer.
That’s my impression, too. They really do get their vote out. It is amazing. I would like to see a study on how they do it. It works in Ohio for them just like in Wisconsin. Is it the churches? What is the communications system? The Republicans are really really good at getting out their vote, which means that they only have to suppress a little bit of the Dem vote to win in the close states. Of course, Wisconsin did give birth to Joe McCarthy. Let’s not forget that, either.
“It is still an historic effort and that also has to be scored as a win.”
Your statement is absolute, pure, unequivocal nonsense.
The progressives lost, the unions lost, and the American People lost.
And if that’s the best you got, then FDL lost.
You are all getting too cynical about an OFF YEAR ELECTION. You would be surprised the amount of people in Wisconsin that don’t even know an election took place let alone the issue. My Minnesota co-workers who are Union employees don’t know that an election took place a few miles across their border. Your giving people too much credit. That is something that the Republicans have always had on us. They understand how stupid the public is.
VERY disappointing. It’s a loss. Teabaggers have had more success in electoral politics than we have. Of courtse they’re way better funded. It’s a loss. We suck.
agreed 100%.
You obviously are new to politics and see the world in black and white, just the kind of person the Republicans love to talk to.
Much to celebrate here, really, laying the groundwork to recall walker and build momentum into 2012.
I worked hard this past week at GOTV on the ground and feel sad and disappointed, but also realize that we did achieve a great deal: 2/3rds of our goal.
Defeating olsen in 2012 has to be top priority in state – he has not had a dem opponent for 16 years. It would have been a miracle to have actually recalled him.
We need to build on this success and IMHO this means breaking the collusion between his wife’s CESA 6 and luther olsen.
Believe-it-or-not, CESAs currently are not accountable to anyone except the board that hires their director (in this case, joan spillner/wade). Long story here, I have posted only tidbits in a few threads.
If anyone wants to make a difference and help keep the heat on olsen, we need to go after they way a quasi-private agency with no accountability is being used to “catapult” olsen’s vision of destroying public schools.
Remember, CESAs in WI were created to support public schools, not destroy them. Only spillner/wade’s CESA 6 actively promotes olsens propaganda about public schools.
Inappropriately, and probably illegally, joan spillner/wade’s CESA 6 created and distributes this video without any attribution to its producers (CESA 6) and content (olsen).
Please carefully watch the propaganda techniques and how, though intellectual slight of hand, it proclaims Wisconsin has no choice but to destroy public ed:
http://www.cesa6.k12.wi.us/aboutus/nextgeneration.cfm
Are any badgers/others out there willing to work to protect public education from self-promoters/profiteers like luther olsen and joan spillner/wade?
You are right. It is simply mindboggling that the vast majority of people have no idea what is happening to them and their country, and the PTB have every intention and interest to keep it that way.
Until we can change that, we don’t stand a chance.
Basically what I said.
Let me moderate that be saying FDL didn’t lose. FDL isn’t in the business to win elections, but to influence them sufficiently to change outcomes, which I believe it likely did. I cannot prove this with numbers,ie what if FDL wasn’t there? The difference we are making has a long way to go.
One more piece of proof of right leaning individuals ignorance. Never has there be a more direct attack on democracy, workers rights, and schools, yet conservatives, who I’m sure will suffer under Walkers programs too, still won’t vote these bastards out of office. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there has always been and will always be a segment of the American electorate that’s dumber than a rock, and they all reside in the GOP.
yes the churches play a big part. They really think they are doing Jesus’s work. But something you have to realize about these voters. THEY ARE BIG TAKERS OF PUBLIC PROGRAMS AND MONEY. They do not see the hypocracy in this. If the Democrats and their programs diminished it would be very interesting to see what happens with these voters. I told my family that if you killed every program, SS, Medicare Medicaid, Unemplo Insurance, School Loans, etc everything, you would never hear about the Republican Party again. They and their ideology would be wiped out. But there really is a difference in the “mind” set between Repubs and Dems. I ran elections against the Right wing screwballs years ago and defeats didn’t matter to them. They just kept coming year after year and now they call themselves the TEA PARTY.
You don’t have to watch very far, just up to the attempt to make their definitions in terms of a dictionary. It’s a dictionary, so it can’t be wrong, can it?
Who or what educated that writer?
I’m pleased to see at least a few positive comments on this site about last night’s outcome. Scott Walker won both of those districts (won by Schilling and King) 9 months ago. Luther Olson, whose district is so Republican he ran unopposed in his last two elections, only won by 4%.
If every contest or issue is a failure if you don’t get 100% of what you want, then you’re right to just give up now. I’m just not sure how that helps. Yes, there are people out there who think differently than you. There’s not much you can do about that until or unless their life circumstance changes in such a way that they believe the conservative agenda hasn’t served them well. Until then, applaud the small victories and keep up the struggle.
Two of the worst Walker votes are now gone. This leaves the WI Senate Republicans with a one-vote majority — and one of the Republicans sided with the Democrats on most key issues.
Walker’s going to find it harder to push through his agenda.
You don’t know me. At all. Before elections, it is gray. After elections, black and white. If you can’t see that, then maybe you need to do some self examination.
It’s good for the soul.
Sometimes you simply have to examine an outcome in stark terms. These folks are going for the jugular. If I had a cougar at my throat and managed to get all but one fang out, I should celebrate my ongoing life? These people are smart. They know they have to act now, and decisively. So long as that one tooth is planted, they can continue to drain the blood.
By no means do I think we should give up. I mean to say we have to run even harder.
along with Fightin’ Bob !
fair and balanced doncha know :D
Agree with your analysis on all counts.
this photo says it all for me
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22062680@N07/6027794107/
PW, as always, thanks for the *real* news! Now I am encouraged. The battle IS joined. Regardless of the headlines.
True, but the specter of failure is nowhere near as likely as it would be had they lost that third race.
For the lack of a nail….
Blah-blah-blah. The Dims are toast. The US is screwed by our own stupidity. I hope the Chinese are kinder than we were.
Everybody’s attempt at a positive spin ain’t working.
It’s time for the London Solution.
For metro222@ 6:23 am
“You obviously are new to politics and see the world in black and white…”
Nope. Just a realistic cynic.
Amen to your post, esp your last sentence. That’s where I cannot go with my Republican/Tea Party friends and family. They are so intent on Grover Norquist’s “no taxes ever under any conditions” that it definitely *appears* to be some sort of brainwashing. My family & friends are highly educated & verbally nimble, but they really can never explain satisfactorily why they are so opposed to any/all taxes esp on the mega-wealthy or corporations other than to spout the usual Rush Limbaugh meme that if we dare to tax the upper 2%, then they will “stop creating jobs ‘n stuff.”
And so on… on many issues, I think we can find common ground and probably have similar feelings. But this divide & conquer on taxes is really a huge divide and hard to see how to overcome it. Reason and rationality and facts and figures have no impact on rightwingers in this regard. Believe me, I have tried… a LOT.
this is more about Labor Unions then Dims
Ok , you start the ball rolling
Yes it Wisc needs to concentrate on taking Walker out now
Your comment about magical thinking seems to hit the nail on the head. Anymore, that’s what I feel I’m witnessing.
I think that conservatives are intensely *afraid* to admit to the con-job of many of the conservative values/ideas/positions/policies… it’s like if they admit that *any* conservative idea is perhaps wrong-headed – or at least could be tweaked somewhat – then the whole house of cards will fall.
It is the level of inflexibility on *all* issues that is so frustrating, which is then portrayed in the halls of govt at the local, state and esp the fed level, where we citizens constantly witness Republicans/Tea Party abjectly REFUSING to compromise one iota. It’s all: my way or the highway, and the devil take the hindmost.
It was not all that long ago that it was considered reasonable, good form and the done thing to *compromise* and to really *negotiate* in govt. But those days are dead and gone with conservatives, for the most part. That is the key issue for me at least: conservative intransigience on steriods… refusal to countanence ANY viewpoint beyond what’s pounded out to them in the corp-owned fascist media and their fascist “churches.”
I hate to sound so bitter, and I realize that most conservatives would counter immediately with the notion that it’s lefties who are rigidly inflexible. I disagree. And we certainly do not have a “liberal media” in this nation AT ALL.
Sigh… will stop now, but the magical thinking on the part of *most* citizens is very discouraging to say the least.
Yes, widespread arson, looting and vandalism will bring about a better world.
To me, that’s lazy thinking. If others are “doing better,” then they should be made to “do worse.” How does this benefit anyone but the upper 2%?? Might want to consider that a little more.
Yes they suck matthewj but this is about Labor
I think I understand why you feel this way, but I suggest you re-read your own post.
The TeaParty is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Koch Industries, who pours ton$$ of money into the Tea Party.
Progressives/Democrats who ran these recall elections had very little funding by comparison and certainly next to no support (I think; correct me if I’m wrong) from the POTUS on down in the higher eschelons of the so-called “Democratic” party.
IMO, when one considers the big imbalance between funding & support, it seems like a very good effort and a big WIN.
One needs to take the long view. The conservatives/upper 2% didn’t get to the place that they are in our nation overnight. This is been a decades long campaign that they’ve waged and have poured a TON of money into it.
We have to start somewhere. This is as good a place to start as any. Throwing in the towel at this point is basically letting the conservative movement “win” overall. I suggest that’s not a good a strategy, with all due deference.
The fact that the recalls even happened — against GOP legislators in strong GOP districts — is a minor miracle.
Here’s a good piece on the likely effects:
http://minnesotaindependent.com/85974/democrats-fall-short-in-wisconsin-recall
But the defeatist attitude that accompanies results like last night’s elections does not inspire people to fight on or run harder. It’s more likely to create despair or, as one person has already suggested on this thread, literally setting fire to our communities.
“…the reason people kept the Republicans in control…”
Are we really sure the people did that and not that Republicans stole the election in that one county that has had problems before? Where’s that discussion?
As much as those who are jonesing for violence (the sort of violence that serves as the perfect pretext for hard-right crackdowns) want to deny it, winning two WI senate seats is a good thing.
Here’s what a Madison, Wisconsin guy has to say about it all:
I agree… not a terrible loss, but still a loss. The division between the left and right today is no different than in the past, but the recent levels of hostility and animosity are the direct result of the country’s economic problems.
Politics in our system is a form of negotiation. When there is surplus, negotiating how to split it up is easy and pleasant. When there is scarcity, negotiations are painful and often ruthless. Right now, the perception is that there’s not enough to go around so people will step on their neighbors to protect their families.
The other thing we see are all of the boogie-man tropes from both sides. The Koch Brothers! George Soros! The Left Wing Media! The Right Wing Media! Governor Perry, Michelle Bachmann! President Obama, Nancy Pelosi! Bill Maher and Michael Moore! Rush Limbaugh! The Unions! The Tea Party! God! Marijuana! You’re greedy! You’re lazy!
We have political differences coupled with hard economic times and that is going to lead to frustration, anger, and strife. We can either understand that and do our best to work together or we can fight it out like too-many rats in a small cage.
You’re right about the Teabagger’s and the Koch bros. (and Armey, Dick) My short hand (they’re way better funded than us) was probably too short shorthand. I do, however, stand by my conclusion. We suck. We’re not going to beat the well-fund, astroturf “conservativbe movement”. I’m pretty sure I know what you mean by that–it’s a difficult thing to describe in 2 words– but some might object. Heck with ‘em. What I started to say was we aren’t gonna beat these people. WE can only wait for them to beat themselves. They will. But let’s wake up and smell teh coffee as Dear Abby used to say. Our biggest Progressive success of late was electing Barack Obama. Turned out great, right. Fool me once….. I just beg to differ with those who think/say that WI was the start of anything.
There is still no underestimating the stupidity of the of at least half the voters.
I’ve given a pretty harsh assessment of the outcome in WI and I, think I’m right. But you and the people like you who worked their asses off are great. I hope my assessment is wrong. My assesmemnt was “we suck.” Certainly, you don’t. Thanks Badger for all you did.
True – and indeed the most important point -
but the media has a narrative of “Democrats/teachers/unions defeated, most likely destroys ability to be successful in Walker recall in January”. “GOP to continue to do people’s will” is then said via a Walker quote – and this is Wisconsin media. I do not know what national media will do on the nightly news. Must be nice to own the media.
But when there is but one path forward you take it, with out thinking too hard about the problems ahead.
LABOR PREVAILED
Waukasha Co Elections lady turned a 1% of the vote winner into a easy win this time. Not that there is anything criminal to investigate – or is there?
Mass movements cannot rely on elections alone. Massive protest has to be a part of any transformational movement. Elections alone are a fools errand.
“It is the way that politics should work. You can not always control the outcome but you can control the effort and that effort in Wisconsin was outstanding. While the final outcome was not all that people had hoped, it is a model for what needs to be done if the people are going regain their say in the way they are governed.”
Thanks for this effort, Bill. Reading your post and Scarecrow’s and Roberts, it is very obvious that we are all disappointed in this preliminary result. But I got a lot of information from the comments of Wisconsin posts, so thank you as well for those. That these particular Republican representatives would have been extremely hard to dislodge, given that in the widely popular Obamamania they yet held onto their constituents speaks volumes. We on the outside cannot and should not pass judgment on why this remained true in the face of what seem to us to be pretty clear indications, but really there has been such a spew of falsity from both parties it would be hard for traditionally minded folk to jump out into midstream – as Scarecrow points out, Obama’s wierdness has totally not helped.
I would also say that just as I found and find the so-called ‘progressive’ radio talkers unbearable these days, so would many in that good state. It is a total turnoff to hear Ed Schultz, supposedly a progressive union man fulsomely exclaim after the debt limit deal that he is more in love with Obama than ever, to have excreble folk like Stephanie Miller and Randi Rhodes purporting to represent liberal values – I totally cannot stand her! And Thom Hartmann dabbles in the same dirty jokes as well. These talkers are doing huge damage to the progressive image. Really, folk, if you want ordinary people to stay with you, please clean up your act! Of course, that is why the corporate righties that control radio let these folk stay on the air, but we need to call them on the carpet for doing this. It is very damaging.
Okay, that sounds totally prudish, but I would be on about this just as Bill has been on about harnessing anger. It just doesn’t make sense if you want to appeal to a broad spectrum to keep f… ing this and that and the other and indulging in low humor in public discourse – it really doesn’t! I’m pretty forgiving but even I can’t listen to it on the radio, always turn it off in disgust. In print it is a bit easier, but I still wince. It would be a great thing to get down to the nitty gritty without always having to spell it out.
I realize we can do little about trolls in this effort but this is not a matter of lifestyles but of how we communicate – its going to sound offensive and folk won’t listen. That’s what’s really important, not whether little old me gets red in the face. In Wisconsin, as is evident, some folk are still not listening. We need to cut the crap (excuse me) and go heavy on the intent, which is to educate. It’s not about lifestyles; most folk are tolerant that way and I think Wisconsin folk would say that as well. But it is most definitely about language, in my opinion. And what is going on in radio right now is that the ‘progressives’ are impossible. They need to be called out and really the accusation that their affinity with progressive causes in Wisconsin did a huge amount of damage.
Sorry, last sentence should read:
The["progressive" radio hosts] need to be called out and really tagged with the accusation that their affinity with progressive causes in Wisconsin did a huge amount of damage.
their fascist “churches.” ??
I grew up in the mid-west in those churches – and while culturally conservative (not 100% or even 75% – but 2/3rds are indeed culturally conservative), they certainly are not “fascist” and indeed taking care of the least of us is a major priority.
If your looking for liberation theology – anti-rich and corporate – you don’t find it except in isolated churches. But the media has sold anti-union and anti-gov employee and anti-tax for decades – and that is the problem. It is not the churches – indeed I do not recall – ever – a church promotion of a political person, or even of a political position that economically hurt the economically lower classes, despite the cultural conservatism (re: role of women, gays, response to those that would push the church out of the public and social commons).
When will other Republican legislatures be up for recall?? Or will the next general election in 2012 be a time for it? OF course, the redistricting and changes in voter laws and shutting down registration locations in “those areas” may well screw the electorate. Also, it’s a shame that Obama will certainly depress Democratic turnout unless people can be conivced to go vote Dem and snub Obama by for someone else, or not voting for Prez at all.
That was the total spent. We need the percentages from each camp.
Maybe they were tired from fighting the gazzionaires.
But when others are “doing better,” then they should be made to “do worse.” envy meets the fact it is with your taxes that they are doing better, I doubt “lazy thinking” applies.
The police/fire retirement benefit package (paid to get police fire support at elections) is seen as a Dem problem. Police fire pay is not disputed, although construction protection money to the police in the way of laws requiring “special details” of off-duty police is seen as Dem corruption. But the retirement benefit is large in the public mind – and the irony is that while many police fire now endorse the GOP – based on the GOP promise to protect that “benefit” package, Dems get blamed because unions by definition try to support each other, so it must be our fault.
We are both H.L. Mencken fans.
I have altered his famous words to read:
No one every lost money underestimating the stupidity of the American public.
You know, that was the eleventh commandment, but Moses dropped the third tablet. What a klutz!
Ok Julianna, I really take offense to your post. It has been clear to me when I first joined FDL that there were members and visitors to this thread that were alot smarter than me but I thought that I had alot of ideas and past experiences to contribute to this site and I wanted to be part of it. But in your post and some others, it is becoming very clear that there are a few people that are very much respected at FDL and their word is gospel while the rest of us are a group of know nothings that don’t know what we are talking about. I have been around politics for along time and if I was as cynical as some with the number of times we lost elections, I would be hanging from a tree by now. My comments here were to try and raise the spirits by siting my past experiences and message that not all is lost and some good came out of Wisconsin last night. And not everyone will agree with me and others but damn it , it is our opinion and contribution as liberal progressives. As far as the talk show hosts, yes I turn off some of them also. And Ed has pissed me off once or twice. But do you see any one else using his or her show to bring attention to Wisc??? The Debt deal was a sham and I intend to vote against my representatives because of it but I see Schultz in a different light. He has blasted the Dems many times and Obama for their actions and I would love to be a fly on the wall in the same room with him and his colleagues when he is off the air to really hear what they have to say about these cut throat bastards and what they are doing to all of us. Look what happened to Cenk when he roughed up a few jerks. Now he has no message getting out.
At lease Ed can get a few zingers in.
Doom and gloom forever, right?
Late in the game is when you’re dead, not before.
Thanks for your comments PW. WI school districts (this fall) are still spending Federal Stimulus money that was acquired during the last state administration of Gov Doyle. Walker’s cuts to education and gifts to upper middle class folks to fund charter (for profit) private schools will not fully hit state district public schools until next year.
As I said on other threads, only state Senators who had been in office for over a year were eligible for recall. I can think of at least two other Republican state Senators who would have been challenged were that not the case, but they will be challenged along with Walker.
The full effect of citizen outrage against the fascist regime on the throne has yet to be exercised.
This was produced by a quasi private agency that has been granted an essential monoply by the state for certain types of educational services.
They are seeking to “grow” those services and are literally answerable to no one except the board that decide to help luther olsen dismember public schools!
This is pathetic. It is a loss but NOT because enough Democrats didn’t get elected.
IT IS A LOSS BECAUSE PEOPLE STILL THINK ENGAGING IN ELECTIONS ARE A VALID, WORKABLE AVENUE FOR SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
THAT is the problem here. That people STILL think that voting in elections within a gamed election process is an avenue for bringing about significant change.
And, AS ALWAYS, you have “liberal citizen leaders/info-gatekeepers” like Bill Egnor cheering it on and “pumping people up” in an effort to convince people to keep engaging in a system that, barring significant systemic change to that system itself, will never truly serve the needs of the masses long term.
Are people really this blind? Are people really going to continue to follow the thinking and advice of people who don’t even have a clue as to what the actual problems are?
When do “we” stop listening to people who counsel the same, tired, failed strategies over and over again? How many “election cycles” will it take? I want an answer. How many election cycles will it take before people realize that significant positive change WILL NOT be achieved via participation in a system that the elite have gamed to benefit them and only them long term?
http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2011/08/09/wisconsin-and-the-case-of-the-dogs-that-didnt-bark/#comment-278428
I am depressed. I am beginning to feel the progressive movement is dead. Defeat after defeat after defeat. What is it that is keeping us from being more victorious? I think its what Tom Hartman said. We have to learn from the Tea Party. Take over the democratic establishment from within. Then we can decide who becomes the party leadership.
Of course it was a loss. I mean, c’mon.
Typical Democratic pump and dump.
At this point, people need to evaluate whether they’re really Democrats. I must admit, my motive are mostly selfish. Many of the Democratic causes are not mine.
I support giving to the poor, not the rich, right to privacy, SS, peace, birth control the public option. I don’t think the Democrats really support these anymore, at least not demonstratively so. I think I’ll sit this one out.
put one foot in front of the other and enjoy the view as you push on is the union view of the struggle and is indeed better than “all is lost”.
and violence against objects does not make for change, and against innocents makes no moral sense.
The progressive news ladies and men can anger when they try to sell Obama but their heart is in the right place – unlike our greed is good/government is bad opponents.
Well you have said a lot about what does not work, most of with which I agree. But you have said nothing about anything that will. I’m hoping you just didn’t have time, because if all you have is blame and complain, it looks, tastes and smells just like the system you are criticizing.
Some world social history should give some direction on change in this culture, but I have to warn you it isn’t pretty. Did I hear someone say “London”?
The Dims are the Party of Golden Sacks. Someone up-thread said something about the London solution being our solution. I’m amazed that massive social unrest happened so quickly in UK, but they are worse off than we are. But make no mistake, the right can have their political and economic victories–but if you think the UK uprising is bad, image that same scenario in the US, a place with tons of guns in the hands of the populace. Of course, this more of a police state than the Brits. Our fascist police worse will mow people down, American style. The British “Feds” are brutal, but our cops are just downright murderous.
My point…if there is no organized movement for the greater good the above scenario obtains. People need to forsake electoral politics for good. The rich control the political process.
I wouldn’t write off the Democratic solution so quickly, at least not in Wisconsin. Trust me, I do not live in Wisconsin and I know Democrat pols all over the country have learned and are learning from the 14 ELECTED Democrats who drew the line. A line that, by-the-way, still has not been crossed. I have not heard a single one of them cave or give up. They are the heroes in this story. So don’t give up on them yet. They need your support and the country needs their leadership.
If you’re saying that London would end Corporatocracy, I say bring on London. That’s a small price to pay, relatively speaking.
It seems to have done the trick in the past; 1960s urban riots led to Open Housing laws, for example. Plenty of repressive regimes have collapsed because of a failure to control popular unrest.
It’s not a guarantor of positive outcomes, but neither should it be casually discarded.
George Washington seldom won a battle, but he did win the last one and the war. Do it ’til ya get it right.
I have been looking at blogs this morning and the troll meme is “concern”. All is Lost, and Give Up seem to most prevalent messages.
But, I see it differently. The Republicons outspent the Democrats by how much? I would assume a great deal. The Dems had boots on the ground. The Repubs buy everything.
What is the Walker recall going to cost the oligarchs? Then, they’ll have to fund the general election.
And if they cannot successfully defend six safe state senate seats, they will reach a point of diminishing returns.
The Repubs will have operatives on every corner with their hand out to the oligarchs. I say, bleed them.
It is a win if we don’t give up.
Maybe I’ve missed a big discussion and/or controversy but wasn’t there another Kathy Nickolaus incident last night? Why are the Dems giving up in even challenging her? What did I miss?
I’m sorry, I often forget that people can’t think for themselves.
Here’s an idea that is infinitely better than electoral engagement incrementalism. Infinitely better if for no other reason than it doesn’t involve us lying to ourselves and each other:
http://my.firedoglake.com/somethingthedogsaid/2011/08/08/the-people-are-angry-how-do-we-harness-that/#comment-272911