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So do you know any of these Black Bloc Anarchists?
Yesterday I suggested we identify them, here is some good footage that can help. If I was organized I would put up a Flickr page with stills so people could crowdsource. I think you should note all the people who didn’t agree with them and tried to get them to stop. I especially liked the swearing by the black guy from East Oakland who said, “It’s occupy not destroy you dumb m—–f—ers.”
My piece Time to Identify the Vandals about the #occupy movement got a lot of comments. I updated it, but people often don’t go back. Today my friend Sara Robinson wrote an excellent piece on dealing with people with over-the-top behavior. I think this will be useful context for thinking about dealing with outliers. The full piece is at my blog Spocko’s Brain.
Occupy’s Asshole Problem: Flashbacks from An Old Hippie
Here is an excerpt.
1. Let’s be clear: It is absolutely OK to insist on behavior norms. #Occupy may be a DIY movement — but it also stands for very specific ideas and principles. Central among these is: We are here to reassert the common good. And we have a LOT of work to do. Being open and accepting does not mean that we’re obligated to accept behavior that damages our ability to achieve our goals. It also means that we have a perfect right to insist that people sharing our spaces either act in ways that further those goals, or go somewhere else until they’re able to meet that standard.
2. It is OK to draw boundaries between those who are clearly working toward our goals, and those who are clearly not. Or, as an earlier generation of change agents put it: “You’re either on the bus, or off the bus.” Are you here to change the way this country operates, and willing to sacrifice some of your almighty personal freedom to do that? Great. You’re with us, and you’re welcome here. Are you here on your own trip and expecting the rest of us to put up with you? In that case, you are emphatically NOT on our side, and you are not welcome in our space.
Anybody who feels the need to put their own personal crap ahead of the health and future of the movement is (at least for that moment) an asshole, and does not belong in Occupied space. Period. This can be a very hard idea for people in an inclusive movement to accept — we really want to have all voices heard. But the principles #Occupy stands for must always take precedence over any individual’s divine right to be an asshole, or the assholes will take over. Which brings me to….
57 Comments
Totally agree. Recd’
Read it and have to agree. The right to share physical space with the OWS sites and actions cannot be unconditional. There should- must- be clear and consistent rules and procedures agreed to by consensus in place to deal with people who are acting out in ways detrimental to the process. Even hard core anarchists won’t assert one should be entitled to anything one wants anywhere and anytime one wants. The limits just have to be reasonable, arrived out through consensus and be practical rather than simply punitive.
This is obviously a preplanned assault on OWS by attacking a couple of buildings with a lot of glass. This is why their faces were covered and most were dressed so as to be unidentifiable. It is either wingnut or police provocateurs. Jerking a mask off and taking the picture may have helped.
Anarchists my ass. These are just fuckin’ punks using anarchy as an excuse to act out. Like the dude said, dumb motherfuckers.
watching these assholes just makes my blood boil….
OWS is a democratic movement, so no, actually, it isn’t ok for you to arbitrarily decide who belongs and who doesn’t based on your own reactionary, ultra-conservative political prejudices. I hope that you have a run in with the police and get to find out what real violence is and why people who have been oppressed more than you personally have might require a different tactic. You perfectly fit the definition you posted above.
And when the GA’s vote and adopt “No Property Crimes, No Violence” then the Anarchists have to abide by that, right?
But they don’t. They’re not small d democratic – they do as they please. You can’t have it both ways, which is apparently what you want.
If they have a different tactic than what’s been agreed to by the GA, they can do that, just not as part of Occupy. It’s not Spocko deciding, it’s the decision making body of Occupy Oakland.
In my opinion, a lot of different tactics by a lot of different organizations all have a role to play. It’s just not acceptable to go against what the organization you are marching with has decided.
Commit property damage on your own time if that’s your tactic.
The Oakland Occupiers who were frantically trying to stop the black bloc bozos — in other words, the vast majority of the Occupiers — would disagree with you.
Why are you defending a group long known for having been infiltrated, if not outright manipulated, by the authorities? And a group whose brainless, violent actions allow the media to ignore the cops’ shooting homeless folks and nearly beating to death yet another Iraq war vet?
The black bloc clowns never, ever start their own protests. They always try to hijack other people’s protests — hence the strong suspicions of police infiltration.
“I hope that you have a run in with the police and get to find out what real violence is”
I find this an unacceptable statement on this blog.
Are you a member of the Oakland police force?
Thanks spocko and those that might be able to do this. I’m all fore taking them down to the ground and taking off the mask. Then hold them for the police if they even care or any media that just might care. Yes I know that’s rare.
Exactly.
I just flagged that comment. Wishing Spocko be the recipient of police violence. Not acceptable.
You missed the 60/70s it didn’t work then and won’t work now.
Here is why a bunch of black-bloc bozos who never once showed up at any General Assemblies should not be allowed to hijack the Occupy movement like they were allowed to hijack the G-20 protests.
This is what greeted me on my TV tonight, instead of the news about the second Iraq war vet to nearly die at the hands of the Oakland cops.
This is what Middle America is seeing right now. This is what will color their view of the entire movement. Do you want most of America to have this as their main image of what’s been up to now an astonishingly peaceful movement?
(What’s sad here is that I felt the need to make my argument one of utility, because I knew that trying to appeal to Cedren’s morality and ethics was a lost cause.)
Spocko, Oakland residents, check this out — are these guys cops in disguise? They seem awfully clean-cut and some may have police radios:
http://newsworldwide.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/police-pose-as-black-block-protesters-at-occupy-oakland/
I want to know about the giant Paint sprayer. That’s some serious equipment.
Could that face recognition software that I think Facebook is utilizing be employed for these purposes? I know zilch about it, as I usually avoid Facebook, but…anybody know?
Well, a few too many masked folks for the face recog software, I guess…
Which just leads me to suggest that anti-violence folks in the future need to band together a bit, take these guys down in the street, and de-mask and photo them…
I know some folks want to warn against assault and battery risks in such scenarios, but, a) in the midst of chaos, not likely, and, b) have other anti-violence folks record the scene, especially capturing the vandalism on video prior to a take-down.
Sara’s article is fantastic. Is it/could it be available in easily printable format to bring as a proposal to the various occupations?
Sara has given her permission to DIY with that article. Just make sure you keep her name for attribution.
Reprint, email and forward away!
Thanks, will do.
You are also welcome to link to the Spocko’s Brain URL with the whole story.
I clicked through to read the rest of the article and it says this:
“It might make sense to create a large committee whose job it is to gather information, build cases against offenders, and conduct these meetings.”
I mean, just from where I sit, I find this…a bit much. I mean, I know infiltrators are a problem. Hard to articulate why, but …is it really necessary? The assholes reveal themselves by their behavior and they should be easy to spot, not hard.
F*CKING AGENTS provocateur!! The PTB are getting scared and desperate. Time to deploy the undercover police goons and provocateurs. Nothing new in any of this. Back in the 60′s go to any Demo. and these klowns were easy to spot, because they were always the ones screaming KILL the PIGS the loudest.
I just have to say, as an anarchist, that most of the anarchists I know (myself included) are either straight-up pacifists or boarderline pacifists, due to the inherently coercive nature of violence. None of us would condone these so-called “black-bloc” tactics, and I wish people would stop talking about these kids as if they have anything to do with the vast majority of organized, principled anarchists in this country.
It is incredibly odd the way the police in the scene just kind of stand aside and let everything happen… this isn’t how police would normally behave in a situation like this, and lends credence to the agents provocateur hypothesis. Also, some of the stuff on these videos just look laughably staged, like the weird gropey assault on the guy with the backpack and the defender spinning the stick around ninja style. A very bizarre scene.
Agreed. Most anarchists have the courage to make their own protests, and not piggyback on other people’s actions while trying to hijack them. These “black bloc” kiddies never start their own protests.
Thank you, Southern Dragon.
I’m having a hard time dealing with the “Black Bloc” bad, fuckin’ bad meme going on today. I’m having issues, Spocko.
I love the Black Bloc. They were there when no one else was. In tiny numbers with a whole shitload of gray haired activist folks criticizing the Fuck out of them. They had the dignity and sense of community to put up with that.
So, mess with Black Bloc and I will defend.
A black fucking hoody and a black bandana is not necessarily Black Bloc. Get over it!
I have some experience dealing with people who claim to be “black bloc” and their slightly more environmental extremist friends, the “Anarcho-primitivists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism”
Never met someone college age really claimed to black bloc. Everyone who does is significantly older. More than old enough to have been through a police/agent academy, grown their hair back out, and sent back out to where even clueless undercover rookies can’t get themselves in any real danger. Portland, OR. Doing undercover work trying to foil all those future Muslim Al-Anarchists, I guess.
There really are a couple of real college age primitivists. Almost all of them are from Eugene. The rest are more Police Academy kids.
Anarchists, nihilists, punks, vandals, skinheads. These bastards ruin every legitimate protest on the West Coast. You can see it in their eyes; they don’t give a c**p, they’re not there for any legitimate protest, they get off on smashing stuff and the power trip of thinking they’re little badasses.
The cops know who these people are; the Anarchists have an office and bookstore in Berkeley. Do they crap in their own bed? No, they take it to Oakland, San Francisco, LA, Seattle, Vancouver.
They are the useful tools of the cops who don’t even have to use their paid provocateurs. Occupy Oakland tries to report these bastards, OPD refuses to do anything because they need them there to use them. Whenever the OPD wants to shut down a protest, all they have to do is give the Black Block a little room, maybe provoke them a bit or tip them off. Then they’ve got violence for the Media Parade and to rationalize bringing in the jack-boot riot police to crack some heads. Honestly, the Black Block doesn’t care about this either, since they also get off on fighting the cops. It massages their bad-ass egos.
Next time, yank off their stupid bandanas and film these cockroaches. Any competent martial arts instructor could do the job. Be there with camera; put their pictures on the internet. Occupy needs it’s own security detail to identify and kick out these fools.
Well,well,well…………… smells the scent of propaganda, ignorance,fear and opportunistic human shit. Scat.
Are you aware that OWS was started by Anarchists?
No… it most certainly wasn’t.
Many people mistake direct democracy for “anarchy.” The United States is not a democracy. Never has been. It’s a Representative Republic. People do not hold power in the US. Their representatives make all the decision.
What you see in Liberty Park every night is direct democracy. People voicing their own concerns and voting on issues every night.
I was really struck by two things:
1) So many of the vandals were dressed in the same way Black hoodie and black bandana as if they wanted to be able to spot each other
2) they came pre armed with their flags on unnecessarily stout poles and one guy had a hammer
They really looked like plants or some other group using Occupy as a beard for their own agenda.
Methinks some people need to do some basic research on modern day anarchists. The anarchists of today are not stereotypical bomb throwing radicals, they haven’t been for decades. The stereotype comes from the late 1800s and has been conveniently used by the establishment ever since. Today’s anarchists are people who form groups like Food Not Bombs. They’re non-violent. What we see here are common everyday punks who use the cloak of anarchy to show the world how tough they think they are. Damaged/destroyed property doesn’t further anybody’s desire for change. The punks we see in this video wouldn’t make a pimple on a real anarchist’s ass. If you want to see a real life anarchist movement look to the Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico.
The first amendment is our permit. The first amendment does not guarantee the right to smash windows. OWS is loosely organized but it is organized, It operates on the basis of consensus. Black bloc-ers ignore the GA & the customs of consensus building. They are using OWS for their own ends. They are trashing it in the process.
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that they are in the pay of the Kochs or such like.
Most certainly was, at least partially… where do you think the whole General Assembly model comes from in the first place??
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/david-graeber-on-playing-by-the-rules-%E2%80%93-the-strange-success-of-occupy-wall-street.html
yes, at a recent Occupy action in my city where things were tense with the cops, three people showed up briefly in “black bloc” gear and then quickly disappeared when the cops started actually make a move. All the real life anarchists I know were like “who the F were those guys?!!?”
It’s really pathetic to see American liberals trashing anarchists with no idea what they’re actually talking about.
The General Assembly, the hand signals, the leaderless movement, all are contributions and long established methods of organization by Anarchists.
Adam you should educate yourself on the facts.
“Representative Republic” nope that is wrong and is very telling for you to say that. America is a Constitutional Democracy. We use Democracy within the confines of the Constitution to tell our Representatives what to do. Which is also called Representative Democracy. The “Representative Republic” term is used by the Tea Party and the GOP to try to convince the people that the Representatives call the shots. In theory we are a bottom political system, in reality we are a bottom down political system because the 1% owns the Representatives.
Is OWS starting to implement your ideas?
Highly rcc’d Spocko, Sara’s read at yer place too.
Shared it all and more links you gave with Occupy Sac just so they’d be aware of all this.
This is truly uplifting progressive work you are doing and I thank you greatly for it.
Must share info folks . . . spread it on FB and everywhere.
*bows*
(n ignore the trolls or anyone who would champion or defend black bloc . . .)
Not on board with this at all.
1. Not everyone who dresses black participates in property destruction or throwing stuff at police. Guilt by association.
2. Turning against allies only helps destroy the movement. If you want nothing to do with them, then don’t associate with them. Pretty simple. They make themselves pretty obvious.
3. What’s your goal? To discourage people from occupying abandoned buildings? To make sure the private property of the banks behind this mess are protected at the cost of a fellow human being’s freedom?
4. No one own this movement. It depends on who shows up and what they decide to do.
5. Both those who participate in the black bloc and the occupy are anarchist at the core. You can’t call the black bloc “anarchist” in a derogatory way without also smearing the entire occupy movement. What do you think the general assembly is modeled after?
What you’re seeing is a decade+ long division in tactics among those who seek a more democratic, horizontally run world. One segment believes we need more confrontation, bolder (non-violent) actions, the other tries to walk the line between what is accepted by the police and powers that be and being more politely disobedient.
Btw, let’s keep this in perspective. This happened in Oakland. It’s not an issue for most other Occupys, including the first. They’ll have to decide how they want to handle it.
If you want to see something happen at an actual occupy, put this forward in one.
Creating an Internet campaign to try to get people who may be completely innocent arrested because of their association seems horribly misguided.
For the record, I’m more of the not-bring-extra-negative-attention-to-yourself type. I just think acting like a citizens’ FBI isn’t helpful at all.
If someone, or group, no matter how they are dressed, does something illegal, they are acting on their own and should expect the consequences of those actions. They should not expect sympathy or support from the general assemblies as a whole when they are acting outside of them. So, that’s enough in my opinion and if Occupy Oakland or any other Occupy feels they want to handle this in some other way, that’s their decision, not mine or anyone else here, as spectators on the Internet.
There’s been some relatively minor vandalism in Los Angeles. I suspect a lot of it is by the mentally-ill who live in downtown LA. Some of it is more purposeful – the city put a fence around a fountain, to keep people for treating it as a platform or a bathtub, and some guys apparently climbed over and decorated it with chalk, among other things. I hope they aren’t OWS….
I think the best way to deal with this and not become cops and begin a stifling witch-hunt, possibly harming innocent people is to repeat “non-violence” and then just stay the f#ck away from the few (there were maybe 5 people actually smashing things in the video) who were doing the damage. These cities are big enough that you can quickly move away from them to make it clear they are acting on their own will and not a part of the local occupy movement. It’ll also make it easier for police to nab them if that’s really what you want.
You risk having charges filed against you if you physically confront them, you risk getting hurt if one is out of their mind or an undercover with free will, and I can’t see much positive coming from being citizen cops/witch-hunters.
It makes us look like we’re imploding if we start fighting with other people during protests and start Internet campaigns to hunt people down to get them arrested. My 0.2C, of course this is up to Occupy Oakland to deal with, not me or most/all here.
I suppose it was inevitable that all the over the top expressions of “boiling anger” from the 40-50-60 somethings and empty calls for ratting out the “vandals” would quickly evolve into the language of therapeutic intervention.
I,too, have watched the A&E show. And from it I learned that you cannot force an intervention on somebody who doesn’t want one. Oh, and btw, you also can’t legally restrict the free movement of someone on the street who doesn’t wish to be restrained unless you can show probable cause that a law has been broken by the specific person who has been detained. The act of so doing, assuming that you have the courage to undertake the action in the first place, would be something of a superhuman feat in reality, given the spontaneous and chaotic nature of a street protest of hundreds.
the police happening upon the scene might just as well start busting up the entire group involved, rather than take the time in the middle of the melee to stop and start an impromptu questioning of witnesses on the scene.
Since we are now on the topic of therapeutic intervention, allow me to suggest that the proponents of such questionable methods themselves seek therapy for your anger and (lack of) performance issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc
It’s not a group. It’s a movement.
That being said, they’re douchebags and they should be weeded out and stopped at all costs.
Stupid no edit.
Should read “It’s not a group. It’s a tactic.”
That is all.
Yes. This is the appropriate way to deal with these people. If you don’t agree, dissociate verbally but also physically and immediately. There should be no identifiable OWS people in the footage with the black blockers… this is how you deal with it, not by witch hunts against anarchists
Black bloc = Autonomism. Look it up, it is a movement not a tactic.
Why do you think Anon wears masks? BTW Black bloc is more involved in OWS than most people want to believe, and they are not going to just bow down to your non-authority. You should thinks twice before calling a movement a tactic and the people within that movement douchebags, especially when you seem to know so little of what you are talking about.
Perhaps next you want to weed out some other group that does not fit within your judgement? What gives you the authority as an individual to make such judgments?