Today there was a very calm discussion on guns on KQED’s Forum radio show.
It was exactly what the NRA wanted; a discussion a month after the last big shooting so that the conversational focus can move away from the emotional pain of 20 dead kids. It was all very rational. And that pissed me off.
During the conversation Hammond threw in the perfunctory line, “our hearts and minds go out to the victims of that horrible shooting.” How many times have you heard that line right before they switch to talking about the needs of a small group of entitled, self-indulgent jerks who think their desire to go “pew pew pew” with real army weapons outweighs everyone else’s rights?
Here is the link to the question, his response, the perfunctory line and then the pivot away from the tragedy to his figures on gun deaths in New Hampshire.
I’ve been listening to lots of gun enthusiasts’ podcasts lately. They are desperate to show how this shooting has nothing to do with their obstruction of sane gun laws and gun hawking. If they didn’t personally put the semi-automatic into the person’s hand and said, “Go shoot ‘em.” they think they are fine. The reality is that they have spent years developing policies, blocking laws or creating laws that ensure these shootings happen on a regular basis. Their work ranges from laws blocking research on gun violence at the CDC to outlawing the use of computers to keep track of weapons.
My friend Anat Shenker-Osorio had mentioned a book, Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman about how when we switch to numbers and statistics during a conversation it actually removes the blood from our brain’s emotional center. In some cases this is a good thing. Especially if you know you will lose an emotional argument and you know that you can cheat on your “intellectual” argument. In this case it helps the Gun Owners of America’s spokesperson because it enables him to transition from talking about dead kids to talking about abstract data. The listeners and others are then busy working to counter the abstract data. They are thinking, is what he is saying right or wrong? What is the source? What is my comeback?” Julie Leftwich, legal director for the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, did a fine job of countering him and refrained from calling him a bald face liar. Then, while we spend our time refuting them, the NRA and GOA move focus away from dead bodies sacrificed on the altar of their extremist members who can’t be denied their fun.
Soon we will move into the policy discussions revolving around Biden’s recommendations. I want everyone to remember how we felt one month ago. My friend Cliff Schecter, who does work for Mayors Against Illegal Guns, says that things are different this time. I believe him. Cliff is usually right. Things will change. But let’s be prepared for the planned push back.
The NRA will bitch and moan and talk about how they are the real victims, how they didn’t shoot anyone and ask why they should be punished for the acts of an “evil doer.” They will dodge any kind of responsibility, accountability and liability for the gun-filled environment we live in, as if the guns sold themselves.
I’ve talked before about how I’m pro-public safety. And because of that you will not see me lumping these NRA and GOA people in with my friends who own and use guns. Especially when my friends have shown time and time again their acceptance of, and desire for, increased limitations on certain types of guns. They agree on extensive gun training, universal background checks and real mental health programs. These people are part of the solution. The people I’m disgusted by are the ones who make sure the problem continues.
I want us to use emotional levers to lower gun deaths in America, which some might see as contrary to what they expect from me. But given the life and death stakes, our human impulses and the political environment we live in, I think this method is the most logical path to follow.
We can’t go on with the status quo. We can’t let them stop change. If they win, and prevent change, it will be over your dead child’s body.
Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain



27 Comments

Oh, I created the image using a photo of Adam and the quick meme font generator. It’s in my creative commons flickr account.
I suggest a starting point for Gun Control. There’s no reason for semi-automatic weapons except in a War scenario. Let’s start with getting rid of them. They’re a problem.
In exchange for focusing on the problems of semi-automatic weapons; we discuss the War On Drugs.
of course, this is an exercise in futility…..yes?
I forgot my manners. Thank you, Spocko. As always, your voice is important and a breath of fresh air. Campy, but true!
crap, I didn’t mean your voice was Campy. I meant my words were campy,….
it’s complicated…., anyhoo,….thanks, Spocko.
p.s. since I’m expressing opinions ….Concealed weapons permits really bother me because they give a sense of “permission” to carry a loaded gun in public with no known reason.
My son has a permit and it pisses me off. It’s just wrong.
I’ve heard a suggestion of requiring very high liability insurance as per requisite to obtaining a concealed carry permit. Might be a good idea for owning or possessing any firearm other that a sporting rifle, or normal hunting style shotgun three or four round magazine capacity.
Thanks spocko, wish I had some more creative solutions.
Yea, of course they WANT to normalize people carrying all the time. I have friends that have Conceal Carry permits because of their work. They are appalled at the low level of requirements to get them. Especially in some states.
The gun acts as a talisman for them. Just today I heard on the radio this guy talking about how much more confident it makes him feel. He then talked about the NRA publication that tells stories of how gun owners fought off crime or shot someone. I would like to direct him to the “Oh Shoot” blog that tells the stories of people who are shot by mistake and or shot themselves or others because of negligent handling of a gun.
You know I like creative solutions too, but as we found with drunk driving and second hand smoke, we need to just work on the basic solutions first and keep at them. We get bored easily. The NRA supporters don’t.
Yes it would be great if we somehow got guns out of many people’s hands. That being said, wouldn’t an enactment of a new set of laws just mean yet another war on citizens? I don’t think a war on gun ownership would have any more success than a war on drugs.
The fact of the matter remains that the chances of any one human in America dying in a needless tragedy is much more likely to be a result of a car driver texting, cell phoning or GPS-ing than from guns. I survived a horrendous car accident at age seven. The terror, the gore, the injury and death in a automobile accident is every bit as awful as what happens in a shooting. And it remains in many people’s power – don’t let your kid use their cell phone and drive. Set a good example. Don’t use your devices while you drive.
So now everyone is focused on the gun issue – yet we will have cars with bigger TV screens, more PDA-style devices and what not, while the gun issue distracts us from this issue and other life-threatening issues as well.
Thanks for responding elisemattu. I’d like to take a look at your answer in a different way, by looking at the premises of your comments, okay?
1) You agree that getting guns out of people’s hands would be great. So you accept the idea that fewer guns is better. I agree.
2) You have compared “a new set of gun laws” to a war of citizens. I don’t agree with that premise. If you look at what is being proposed, they are not attacking citizens, they are trying to protect the lives of citizens. Both the people who use guns and those who don’t. Do you see all laws this way? For example, do you see restrictions on drinking and driving, as a war on drivers?
3) You believe that “a war on gun ownership” (note how you changed from citizens to “gun ownership”) wouldn’t be more successful than a war on drugs. I agree that the “war on drugs” was a failure because it was framed as “a war.” What if chronic drug use was framed as an illness that needed to be treated? We don’t go to war with a virus. We figure out how to heal them. The NRA wants a war, because then they can sell more guns. I don’t want a war.
4)Ah, the old the “fact of the matter” line, where you look at overall deaths and talk about percentages and show one is bigger and therefore, the “logic” goes that one kind of death is not that big of a deal. The “you think X is bad? What about Y?” argument. You then explain why Y is so bad. But did you notice how you suggested that people should DO something about using your cell phone while driving? You didn’t just say, ‘Well, that’s life!” and throw up your hands. I think we should also do something about X, guns and how people die because of the easy access to them.
5)Your final premise is trying to get us to look at this other problem over here which you consider bigger, and because of that we are supposed to not focus on the first problem. As someone who knows how to walk and chew gum, and sing a the same time I think the premise that we can only do one thing at a time is not true.
Plus, I’m not stopping you from going out and working on campaigns to stop people from Texting and driving! Go do it! Report back. Write a diary about your success. Every time there is a terrible accident based on texting and driving get it written up in the paper so that congress can do something. Meanwhile I’ll try and work on getting to the very first premise, which we both agree on, that “It would be great if we got guns out of many people’s hands.”
Thanks for commenting!
LLAP,
Spocko
…god, I loathe NPR “news” and chat shows…milquetoast for the masses who think they’re liberal. About the only show I can listen to is Fresh Air any more, and that only for entertainment. Her interview with Karl Rove was embarrassing.
Thank FSM for Amy Goodman, Sam Seder, Citizen Radio and a few others.
Wonderful and thoughtful reply, spocko. Thanks for all you bring to us at FDL!
Yes. Hear ya. Love Sam Seder. Let me give you a few other ones to check out I think you will like. The Jimmy Dore Show brilliant political comedy. Funny impressions of famous people and excellent written bits as well as discussions. It’s on weekly on KPFK but you can down load the podcast at the link.
I’m also like the David Feldman podcast. He’s a comedy writer but the podcast is mostly serious.
I just listened to NPRs conversation about this issue. They interviewed a gun manufacturer. No really tough questions, he brought up some of the standard questions, ‘Does anyone really NEED these military guns?” and the guy gives the usual BS answer.
I do wish journalists would prepare beyond accepting the first answer.
well done spocko. tweeted and recommended and ditto what dearie said
Thanks. I just went in and fixed some of the sentences and grammar. I wrote it quickly before I went to get my flu shot. It’s embarrassing how many words and punctuation marks I left out, sorry.
Thanks! I’ve tweeted this as “Adam Lanza thanks the NRA from beyond the grave.”
I just listened to the NPR analysis of the Obama press conference. I’m so glad he focused on the children. I’m also pleased that he is using “gun safety” and not A ‘gun control’ although I also like public safety because sometimes it’s not just about the guns.
Hey, I’m and old English teacher, and I have to laugh…. I didn’t notice with any red pen … you write with such passion and energy and thoughtfulness that I think I ‘allow’ you any ‘quicknesses’ that you want. I’m not so easy on other quicksters! “:)
Talking about quicksters: “I’m an old ….” I forgive us all!
And the thing that people don’t say often enough is that Adam Lanza’s mother was a legal gun owner…. on of the good guys…. and it didn’t help her much.
The simple, disgusting, and loathsome solution is to release the pictures from both the school and the Aurora theater to the public. Until that happens, the public is isolated from the real horror which they truly cannot comprehend. I know one of the Aurora police officers who was slipping on the blood left on the floor and who helped doing triage with the most severely wounded. Seeing the officers’ uniform soaked in the victims blood and hearing the horrific first-hand description of what carnage they found in the theater, left me in tears. If we, as a nation, had to confront the true horror, injuries, and death that guns help create, then the NRA and their bought and paid for public officials and shills would wilt in the daylight and shrivel away in shame for the destruction they support and enable.
And the thing that people don’t say often enough is that Adam Lanza’s mother was a legal gun owner…. one of the good guys…. and it didn’t help her much.
I think the thing that disgusts me the most is that for one solid week the NRA said nothing immediately following the shooting deaths of 28 people in Newtown.
Once they unleashed their hatred and followers, it has been brutal against all of us that want to see some regulation.
I am not against hunting, owning a gun, but I am against the outright attacks against anyone that dares to stand up to the NRA.
They need to be muzzled and the sooner the better.
Not all hunters or gun owners belong to the NRA and they are very respectful with the weapons they own.
Thank you for saying that AppleCanyon2. And I’m glad you noticed the NRA’s strategy. Of course the press is very respectful and play along with the “no comment while the people grieve” line. What that is about is giving them time to create their offensive message (in both senses of the meaning).
How about some reporters hound them like the hound the parents of the dead after the shooting? Maybe because they might reveal their turn feelings. They DON’T care. It’s not that they lack empathy for others, they are probably really nice to their family and their pets, but if caught confronting the impact of their polices it would be hard for the public to miss just how disconnected they are from these deaths.
As Hod so eloquently put above, they and the American public need to see the impact of our failure *and the NRA’s success* in creating a world with these many guns.
There are LOTS of people who own guns who dislike how the NRA is running this, but the NRA knows who butters their bread. The gun manufacturers as well as their hard core extremists.
One of the reasons I focus on public safety is because my friends who hunt can understand this. Also one of the biggest supporters I know of training and background checks is ex-military and has a Conceal Carry Permit. He too is fighting against the NRA’s leadership. He knows I’m not “anti-gun” as much as I am “pro-public safety”
I’ve talked to him about arming teachers and he is totally against it. and he explained why on several levels.
I was saddened by the inclusion of more police money for schools, because that makes that options something the NRA can jump on by saying, “Why isn’t there more of this.”
But at least it isn’t putting volunteer “security guards” in schools. or arming teachers.
Hey Spocko,
Nice to see your shout out to Anat. She rocks, doesn’t she.
I think there’s some traction to be had with exposing the NRA’s blocking of CDC research into gun violence and I’m glad to see you bring it up.
Blocking a reputable group like the CDC from investigating says one thing and one thing only – that somebody has something to hide.
It was precisely this approach that led to the quick demise of support for the VietNam war in the 60s. Once camerapeople were on the ground with the troops, it was very difficult to shield the American people from the death and destruction. It was also precisely why the BushII administration denied access to the air force bases where the coffins of our dead soldiers made entry back to the States after the killings in Iraq.
Once you show the horror, the blood and the death associated with these events, be they coffins or triage scenes or whatever, in full technicolor, there’s very little argument left for the opposition.