Tonight in Portland, we had a small dose of the FBI’s almost-operational terror sprees, as agents spent more than a year goading a young jihadi wannabe into almost killing thousands of Portlandians in our city’s living room as we gathered for the lighting of the holiday tree.
The FBI thwarted an attempted terrorist bombing in Portland’s Pioneer Courthouse Square moments before the city’s annual tree-lighting Friday night, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Oregon.
A Somalia-born U.S. citizen, thinking he was going to ignite a bomb, drove a van to the corner of the square at Southwest Yamhill Street and Sixth Avenue and attempted to detonate it.
Wow, what kind of complex network would it take for a Somalia-born US citizen to envision, develop, and then carry out such a huge and complex attack in a large public place with so many innocents gathered? Why, of course, one enabled by the FBI.
According to the FBI affidavit, the case began in August 2009 when Mohamud was in e-mail contact with an unindicted associate overseas who was believed to be involved in terrorist activities. In December 2009, while the unindicted associate was in a frontier province of Pakistan, Mohamud and the associate discussed the possibility of Mohamud traveling to Pakistan to participate in violent jihad.
The associate allegedly referred Mohamud to a second associate overseas and provided him with a name and e-mail address. In the months that followed, Mohamud made several unsuccessful attempts to contact the second associate.
Ultimately, an FBI undercover operative contacted Mohamud in a June 2010 e-mail under the guise of being an associate of the first unindicted associate.
Mohamud and the FBI operative agreed to meet in Portland a month later. Mohamud allegedly told the FBI operative that he had written articles that were published in “Jihad Recollections,” an online magazine that advocated holy war.
Mohamud also indicated he intended to become “operational,” meaning he wanted to put an explosion together but needed help. The two met again in August 2010 in a Portland hotel.
“During this meeting, Mohamud explained how he had been thinking of committing some form of violent jihad since the age of 15,” the affidavit says. “Mohamud then told (the FBI operatives) that he had identified a potential target for a bomb: the Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in Portland’s Pioneer Courthouse Square on Nov. 26, 2010.”
So, for eighteen months the FBI has developed this disaffected young man, having started by posing as a member of a terror network. Then they groomed him to identify a target. As they continued meeting with him, alone and with no other co-conspirators, this young man’s plan suddenly reached achievability.
“The threat was very real,” said Oregon’s FBI Special Agent in Charge Arthur Balizan. “Our investigation shows that Mohamud was absolutely committed to carrying out an attack on a very grand scale. At the same time, I want to reassure the people of this community that, every turn, we denied him the ability to actually carry out the attack.”
Mohamud maintained his interest in carrying out the attack and spent months working on logistics.
He allegedly identified a location to place the bomb and mailed bomb components to the FBI operatives, who he believed were assembling the device. He also mailed them passport photos so he could sneak out of the country after the attack, according to the affidavit.
He provided the FBI operatives with a thumbdrive that contained detailed directions to the bomb location and operational instructions for the attack.
On Nov. 4, Mohamud and the FBI operatives traveled to a remote spot in Lincoln County, where they detonated a bomb concealed in a backpack as a trial run for the upcoming attack.
Clearly, the Pacific Northwest has been too complacent about terror brewing in our midst. Thank goodness for the heroic FBI that allowed one silly young man trying to impress older, more senior “terrorists” with an operational plan. And thank goodness they saved us from this attack, moments before it didn’t occur.
How long are we going to let the cowboys shoot up our country with their false terror plots and operations that would go nowhere without their instigation, planning, and coercion? How long will we allow our own federal constabulary to justify its own recklessly inflated budget by permitting actions like this to develop, fester, and grow operational in our midst?
This is terror, pure and simple. State-sponsored terror. Big-splash terror designed to make people compliant and fearful, and grateful to their federal government — in a city which has not yet installed the Rapiscan porno-scanners at our airport.
Someone needs to put an end to it.



162 Comments




recommended teddy — wow
Yeah, what she said . . . wow . . .
Nice catch in yer hood Teddy, and I’m with you all the way in yer analysis of it all . . .
*GeebuzFacePalm*
I strongly believe that some serious discussions about that mysterious “someone” need to start taking place.
They are looking to Europe, and engaging preemption, but what’s even more dangerous; these are the same people who protected us from Al Qaida by voting to invade Iraq. Next thing, there will be new ordinances prohibiting groups larger than 10 from public assembly. (all too protect from muslims being given the opportunity of creating unspeakable carnage amongst larger crowds)
That “someone” needs to do more than just consume a continuous stream of daily reportage. That “someone” needs to do ‘something’.
Thanks, Teddy, for posting this, and to Bryan Denson at The Orgeonian.
Boy, they really led him by the nose. Big terrorist jihadist suddenly appears, kid tries to impress, they lead him on. They even “test” him, the big (fake) jihadist telling him he can back out, and the 19-year-old “big man” wants to be a “hero”.
Then, they DROVE him to the site of the planned “terrorist” attack. Was there anything the feds didn’t do to set this up?
“Mohamud also indicated he intended to become ‘operational,’ meaning he wanted to put an explosion together but needed help.”
How obliging the members of the Fraud Bluster Investigations bureau are!
Jesus, what have we come to? I feel sorry for my Oregonian neighbors to the North, who now (many of them) will be worried about possible terrorist events in their midst. Fear takes quite a toll on a person…
If you haven’t read Conrad’s The Secret Agent, it’s time everyone did. All about a “terrorist” bombing plot. Hopefully I won’t be indexed for recommending this classic English novel.
We were gonna go, too, but ended up making other plans instead. I guess we missed all the excitement, but luckily our Overseers would have kept us from Harm.
It’s just too much like the other ‘terror plots’ like those Miami losers who were gonna bomb the Sears Tower but weren’t sure what city it was in or how to get ahold of sneakers until the Feebs stepped in to help out.
The question for Monday’s big press conference is very simple: how much would he have accomplished without FBI involvement?
Portland OR FBI almost put a Islamic convert lawyer in Guantanamo. They were certain they had found their Al-Queda link to the Madrid bombing.
You know what had. They had the guy’s daughter’s Spanish Homework on his laptop.
True story.
I swear the FBI must be scraping the bottom of the class of the Quantico class into Portland. The Bushes hate Portland, and Portland hates the Bushes right. Poppy Bush named Portland “Little Beirut” I’m sure that’s some of it.
Yes, I was trying to remember that one. Very similar.
You could probably convince about 10,000 adolescents to be “terrorists” in this country if you conned them well-enough.
But will anyone even bother to ask?
My bullsh#t-o-meter is off the Richter scale on this one. Remember this (link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52907-2004Nov15.html )? There are lots of foreign undergrad students and dual-language US-born young people here that don’t have street smarts or the sophistication to even heat up an Ego waffle. I just baby-sat one tonight so the pan didn’t catch fire. They are barely-out-from-under-their-mother’s-skirts, are very sheltered, their mothers do everything for them and they come in all nationalities.
When DID we last hear from the Portland FBI office?
Oh, that’s right: 2004, Brandon Mayfield, who got the very rare apology from a Special Agent In Charge.
http://my.firedoglake.com/teddysanfran/2010/11/27/when-did-we-last-hear-from-the-fbi-in-portland-oh-right-brandon-mayfield/
Mayfield’s lead attorney was Gerry Spence (link: http://www.gerryspence.com/photobook.html ) + Rosenthal and Greene who are on the ACLU’s referral list. Link to the case, Mayfield v. United States is here (link: http://www.rosenthal-greene.com/press.php ).
Maybe somebody didn’t like yesterday’s Mercury post:
“A girl dressed in a bikini practically dares the TSA to check her out for any T&A explosives. Ummm… problem here. SHE’S CUTE. If she really wants to see someone stage a protest, then I should sashay through security dressed in one of my favorite novelty thongs.” (link: http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2010/11/26/its-a-disneys-gummi-bears-kind-of-day ).
Given this Sept. 30th, 2010 post, “Portland Rally on Friday Against FBI Raids in Midwest” (by Jacob Pierce, link: http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/09/30/portland-rally-on-friday-against-fbi-raids-in-midwest ), I’m sure the Willamette Weekly will have something to say …
Thanks Teddy.
Reminds me of Bill Hicks shane bit. Gun slinger throws a pistol at the sheepherders feet. Pow! You all saw… he had a gun.
Sure smells entrapp-y to me, but what do I know? That’s probably pre911 or pre1225 thinking on my part.
Democracy Now! did a really interesting piece on FBI entrapment:
“Entrapment or Foiling Terror? FBI’s Reliance on Paid Informants Raises Questions about Validity of Terrorism Cases
Prosecutors and defense attorneys made their final arguments this week in the trial of the Newburgh Four, a high-profile case that has made national headlines as a potent example of so-called “homegrown terror.” The defense has argued that the defendants were entrapped by government agents and not predisposed to commit a terrorist crime. For several months, Democracy Now!‘s Anjali Kamat and Jacquie Soohen of Big Noise Films traveled through Muslim communities in New York and New Jersey to track the Newburgh case and two others. In all three, Muslim men were arrested on terrorism charges. In all three, no terrorist crime was actually committed. And all three cases relied heavily on hundreds of hours of surveillance recorded by a paid government informant. Today, a Democracy Now! special investigation.”
Watch the report and/or read the transcript here: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/6/entrapment_or_foiling_terror_fbis_reliance
There is evidence that in the case of the Newburgh 4 the FBI informant (or instigator) had to offer money in order to effectuate the entrapment. Via TPMMuckraker: “Lord McWilliams, the 20-year-old brother of one of the four, David Williams, has told the New York Daily News that Williams agreed to take part in the plot in order to get money to pay for McWilliams’ treatment for a deadly liver disease.”
With times so hard, and unemployment so high, it ought to be easy for the FBI to gin up pseudo-terror plots by throwing money at the growing hordes of the naive disaffected.
GOPterror! Let’s all be afraid and not shop. Please, don’t give the malls and shops your last dollars. The terrists want to kill you while you are at the Christmas festivities!
It is becoming an annual tradition to catch a Christmas bomber. Is this part of the “War on Christmas?” Who writes plots for the FBI entrapment scripts? Bill O’Rielly?
Thanks so much for “going there,” Teddy.
This is a huge step forward. As a Truther for many years, I can’t thank you enough for helping to open people’s eye about “State-Sponsored False Flag Terror.”
About time to expose “the oldest trick in the book.”
Probably! All I know is that the GOP really does hate Christmas, and they want to scare the pants off dumb Americans.
It’s all part of the “go shopping” Bush solution to 9/11, shop while we recruit suitable contestants for our Create a Terrorist program and our Who Can Photoshop Osama Bin Laden the Best competition…
Jesse Ventura’s episode of Conspiracy Theory regarding Wall Street is a must see BTW.
Is this the same FBI that couldn’t quite get it straight on the Trade Tower attacks? They did some real fine work after the attacks as well. German investigators have determined that there was some 15 Billion dollars of informed trading in the days leading up to the attacks. FBI investigations really couldn’t get to the bottom of it but one of the major players was the Bush family’s Carlylye Group who were dismissed from the investigation because they couldn’t possibly have anything to do with terrorism.
Read all about it: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22070
People are complaining about the cancer scanners and gate-raping by the TSA. Gotta rev up the fear somehow! Chertoff has more merchandise to move!
Yippy!! More scanners coming soon to a train, mall, bus, boat near you. Free popcorn!
Oh yeah, and Christmas tree lightings…and, and Easter egg hunts..the possibilities are endless…oink.
Good Morning Teddy and Firedogs -
thanks for the reports on this Teddy – otherwise intelligent folks posting this as if it were a ‘real’ event on FB and other places
p.s. -seeing anecdotal reportage everywhere that TSA turned off the scanners all over da place on Wednesday -
Yup…they are boiling the frogs..
Here:
http://watch2video.net/conspiracy-theory-with-jesse-ventura-wall-st-part-1-video–DanAd-AxYP.html
Considering the mix of paranoia and narcissism on Wall Street, this is likely optimistic.
“Gate-rape” — that works.
another story from the front lines in the war on x-mas…
just wondering, did they give him combat boots ?
The FBI is completely out of control. Yet another rogue USG division, like the U.S. military & the CIA. In a perfect world, we should get rid of all 3 & in the process try & hang the leaders of all of them. Well, maybe certain higher members of the executive & legislative branches should go first. Decisions, decisions. Who are the WORST criminals in the USG.
Soon or later the FBI paid informants are going to instigate one of these schemes, then have the perps read up on gasoline bombs.
They’re playing with more than fire.
I agree with everything here about the FBI. But I am not quite prepared to downgrade the young man to silly. He wanted to kill people.
A plot straight out of Bill O’Reilly……………
Golly gee. What a great idea. Let’s lock up everyone who wants to kill some one, even though, on their own, they would no nothing whatsoever to effectuate.
How do you know he wanted to kill people?
“With times so hard, and unemployment so high, it ought to be easy for the FBI to gin up pseudo-terror plots by throwing money at the growing hordes of the naive disaffected.”
Yep. And even so, it’s taking the FBI YEARS to carry each of it’s own terriss plots to their arrest culmination. Talk about incompetence! The FBI should be able to gin up a plot/week under current econ conditions.
Recruiting the mentally disordered to do suicide bombings is exactly what Hamas does. They seek out individuals in crisis situations and point them to doing a “meaningful” suicide.
Its what the radical Islamicists do everywhere. They make political use of mental illness.
Now the FBI has adopted the same tactic, aiming to fulfill their own propaganda ends. This is typical of what you get with controlling/authoritarian personalities.
Good point! We have only the FBI’s word for that, and we all know how reliable that is. Jest givin’ ‘em the benefit of the doubt for a moment, dontcha know.
Agent provocateurs have had a long and “glorious” history with authoritarian regimes, why should we be any different?
The more things change the more they stay the same. Back in the 60s the FBI turned the Black panther party against itself for the sole puppose of instigating rivalry and violence. These kinds of instigating FBI informants are paid to instigate, and enable violence by a few to justify arresting and destroying the entire group has a long ugly effective history and has become the FBI’s standard self aggrandising modus operandi.
Right on. If it’s good enough for Hamas, it’s good enough for the U.S. of A.
Heh. Or, maybe Hamas got the idea from the U.S.
Some of these are not really intelligent or genuinely real people. There are plenty of “Digg Patriots” and “Kos Patriots” who spam sites to spread chaos confusion and disinformation. They are trying to get a job with TIA or Firstfruits.
Thanks Teddy! This was there first site I came across where people were open to the possibility that this was another false fabrication by the FBI. I’ve just made a piece of political art depicting the FBI Entrapping a Muslim. Do you post political art to your articles on this site?
http://hamsonb.deviantart.com/art/Fabricated-Terrorism-186362511
Where I worked (my only full-time employment for 34 years) former FBI and Treasury men were among the college’s deans. They do this shit everywhere. The Dean of Students recruited women students to entrap (only the married) male counselors during a weekend retreat. It ‘worked’; they resigned or were fired. Every so often there was a hooker enrolled in one of my courses. You wouldn’t believe any part of the narratives, so I won’t bother. They also tried to recruit the Student Government vice-president to go undercover and find who was dealing dope at the school. He went to his Sociology professor (a Jazz musician and former FBI snitch) for advice. The professor told him he shouldn’t b/c he might get a bullet in his head.
And let’s not forget, it was just such doubt and cynicism about conspiratorial government agencies that ruined Alvy Singer and Annie Hall’s sex life.
This is entrapment. Nobody who is smart enough to make a bomb that will actually work in this universe is so stupid as to let him or herself be so trapped. While the FBI and
the SSHomeland Security are framing people to justify taking more of our civil rights away, (not to mention maintaining their own bloated budgets), there is going to come a time when somebody who is serious enough and smart enough will carry a bombing out. And the FBI will be as clueless as the ATF during the Koresh raid.Thanks for the link.
Yes, but the FBI knows fake terrorism works because they’ve already proven you *can* fool most of the people most of the time. Whenever they think we’re getting too rowdy they figure it’s time to throw another scare into us.
Nah. U.S. isn’t schmart enuh to think of that on their own. Remember, the CIA had to reverse torture techniques from N. Korea because it couldn’t come up with anything better on their own.
I have always considered the FBI to be nothing more than a Fumbling Bunch of Idiots. Due to damn near 30 years exposure to them and their “informants”. Remember when they covered up mafia activities because their informant was involved and they sent an innocent man to prison for murder? Boston wasn’t it?
They did “black bag” jobs and illegally tapped phones for many decades before 911.
While I was just a peon and never interacted with fbi brass(and deity of your choice forbid I was never in the fbi), what I observed and the stories I heard were enough.
No wonder we have something like 40 different intel agencies all elbowing each other over the same turf. We are, acting like idiots.
The FBI is supposed to operate domestically only, just like the CIA is supposed to only operate outside of CONUS. Yet if we go back decades we can see that neither one manages to stay within the law. The FBI has agents assigned to almost every embassy. OK, WTF?
That they have managed to crack so many nutcase “terror” groups over the years-with much attending publicity-(remember when bushie secDoJ rushed back to US from Moscow after he announced arrests in US)is not surprising given the past of the fbi-radio and TV dramas- and remember the so called “liberty 7″? who were going to blow up the Sears tower, as soon as they figured out where it was and got some boots from alQaeda. And the guy who was going to saw the cable of the Brooklyn bridge in half so the bridge would fall down? Or the “terror” group that was going to blow up terminals at JFK using the jet fuel tanks? Like I said, the FBI is nothing more than a Fumbling Bunch of Idiots. They did arrest and imprison without trial on real flimsy evidence-dirty bombs-a US born citizen thus depriving him of many constitutional rights. Other than the ACLU, did anyone raise a fuss? Marching in the streets?
When the bushies political politzia(the fbi) were arresting peaceful protesters-before they protested-at the rethug convention, did anyone protest? Did the msm do their job of informing the public and investigating the govt in power?
And we haven’t even gotten to Koresh & Ruby Ridge.
Yep. Even the nominally “liberal” people over at HuffPo are falling all over themselves to sycophantically congratulate the FBI on their genius and vigilance. It makes me ill.
This post is crap. We should be cheering the FBI as loudly as we can, this is the best possible way this case could have been resolved. It was a masterwork, they will be teaching this in the training academy for years as a case study in conducting a proper sting operation.
Do you have any idea at all how police work occurs? This is exactly what happens and it is excellent work (the best we’ve seen in the “war on terror” by far.) Honestly people, if we don’t want the Bush/Cheney version of black sites and torture to collect data then it must be done via good old fashioned police work. That is what the FBI did here: they worked up a suspect and collected intel (very successfully) about his contacts and chain of command. They directed and focused his homocidal instincts until they were able to catch him red handed in the act (and thus kept anyone from being harmed in the internim.) He is going to jail, the case is legal and airtight. No torture, no “trust us he’s bad”, no state secrets. Good old fashioned police work to catch a criminal in the most compromising position possible (so they now have maximum leverage to extract more info after the arrest.)
Here are a few more inconvienent facts left out by Teddy:
* The bomb they supplied him with was 100% inert. He couldn’t have detonated it if he had lit the van on fire and had a weenie roast on the wreckage. So there was a minimum of danger to any civilians that night.
* The detonation cell number was fake but he called it twice immediately before they took him. So his intent is unmistakable. They have him red handed, it is an airtight arrest. He intended to kill/maim/harm hundreds of people – no way is he escaping a conviction and jail sentence.
* They collected intel on his sources and contacts *outside the USA* for 18 months leading up to this arrest. There are already reports of arrests occurring elsewhere due to the info gathered. They weren’t after a rogue individual, they were after an organized group of terrorists and they seem to have gotten them.
* They also gathered invaluable intel on how these groups work, the extent of their ability, the structure of the organizations, and goodness knows what else. If you can’t see the value in this info, God help you.
It’s pretty simple folks. The terrorists are going to attack us no matter what we do now (or what we did in the past.) The two routes to collecting intel (that are feasible) are black sites where we torture individuals to collect intel or doing it by police work. Legal, sometimes with minor risk, innocent until proven guilty police work. Life isn’t perfect, there is no other well known (and implementable) routes to dealing with this threat. You want to neuter the FBI and shut down their investigatons? Fine, but then it’s back to black sites (and the govt hiding that truth from you.) Otherwise, we’re back to being wide open.
The world isn’t perfect, there is no such thing as absolute safety. The FBI threaded a needle here and they threaded it perfectly. No one was hurt, suspect is locked down, tons of valuable intel was raised to pursue his supporters/handlers. What possible outcome do you think would be better?
I do not doubt that there are some serious terror groups in the world with a vicious hard on for the US. But for your deities sake, there are fewer than 400 of them all over the world, most of whom are illiterate in their birth tongue. Yet we cower under our beds in fear and the fbi further creates fear among the sheeple with all the “terrorist group” arrests. Watch out, there is a middle east terrorist coming to your mall to blow it up! Call the fbi, that guy looks like an arab! Is he carrying a bomb? Is he carrying an AK 47? Run for your lives, there is an arab in your best buy.(nope, its an Indian geek selling computers) Idiot sheeple.
I hear (don’t know for sure) that ‘entrapment’ no longer can be used as a defense. Apparently they changed the laws some years back to get rid of it. Or I’d say that it was probably entrapment – although this guy was trying hard, if he was willing to wait a year for any kind of word from a contact.
The ‘intel’ the FBI ‘gathered’ was stuff the FBI made up first. Yep, real valuable stuff. /s
As for no torture, how do you know?
Someone needs to put an end to it.
that someone would be the voters.
And since the information the voters have from which to make their decisions is thoroughly and completely manipulated by the media and plutocrats as pro-police state, there is literally no chance of a message about the dangers of the US police state activities ever gaining any support.
ISTR the Brooklyn Bridge plot involved a blowtorch to the cables. As if that was going to work….
And they contacted him and strung him along with advice and encouragement, after he’d waited a year for contact from his alleged terrorist acquaintance.
What kind of competent (or even willing) terrorist would wait a year with no word, then take advice from someone who emails them and says that they;’re a friend of a friend?
Granted that he wanted to do this – why isn’t the FBI investigating the right-wing militias and their friends with the same eagerness? Why are they only looking at middle-Eastern potential
victimsterrorists, and not the white wingnuts?I can’t evaluate it’s use as a defense but as a practical matter, that’s what this case seems to me to be.
Probably a stupid question, but does the FBI have any kind of institutional mechanism to handle this kind of ‘threat’ in a more rehabilitive sort of way? I.e., convince the kid not to ‘go there’ any further because we’re on to you and there’s no f’n way you could pull it off. Would be a lot cheaper than an 18-month sting, so I’m sure the answer is no.
As I understand the point of the exercise is not rehab, but provocation. Without a steady diet of terriss plots, the USG couldn’t keep the citizens scared.
Curious, isn’t it that all the details have been released before a trial? What happened to the closed lip position taken in criminal cases as a basic procedure?
I doubt a trial could be held in Portland or the Tri County area surrounding Portland.
But then, I’m no lawyer, or prosecutor.
And why didn’t the perp get suspicious? It sounds from the report that the FBI was carrying out a hostage negotiation procedure, prior to going in shooting.
But isn’t that part of the plan, to poison the jury to assure a conviction?
Of course! “Oops! What a shame. We can’t get the poor fellow a fair trial. Well, we hate to do it but we’ll just have to hold him indefinitely without charges”.
Fascists.
Nice to know there are so few real federal crimes in this country that the FBI has to make work for itself.
—–”This post is crap. “—–
Your comment is Full Spectrum Crap. The FBI discovered numerous “Al Qaeda” plots before 9-11. The FBI supervisors and the “Intelligence Community” let the 9-11 Conspiracy proceed. The agents who were warning about terrorism were punished.
By the way do you know where the Air Force was on 9-11? Is it true the CIA took Bin Laden to a Hospital in for kidney treatments in July 2001?
The real terrorists are the neo-cons who created Al Qaeda, Bill Casey, Ollie North, Robert Gates, Carlyle Group, Feith, Wolfowitz… Porter Goss? I do not know if he was part of that conspiracy.
Haha. You’re right!
Like there are too few warz in this country for the MIC.
Bingo! My question was rhetorical, for the most part.
Teddy, if you are so inclined, do some history on Portland and Oregon covering the last 20 years or so. I’ve been here for more than twice that time/
nice!
Why haven’t we had IED’s blowing up all over the place in the U.for the past 10 years? I guess the FBI has been all over it.
FAIL
If this is “police work” then the FBI’s is about to go get arrest warrant for every kid in America that ever played the “Indian” side in backyard Cowboys and Indians games.
FBI: “This child was plotting to kill simulated US soldiers at a simulated US military installation.”
God help us if you ever see a game of paintball. I ran around the woods shooting Navy Seals there. You’ll be calling the Air Force asking for cruise missile strikes.
It is all about the timing and the location…to scare people and to make it look like they are on top of “terrorism” so that they can justify more intrusion into the lives of the citizens…more scanners, more tapping..
Your papers please. Achtung.
Obama = Bush.
One last point zot23…You must have really lost your fracking mind when you saw the “Call of Duty Black Ops TV commercials.”
Do you have an explanation for the whole world’s being informed about the plot that failed? Sounds like public relations and back slapping.
Don’t you feel safe knowing the TSA has the resources to send kids to terror camp, bring them back, give them all the resources they need to carry out an attack?
I’m relieved that our terrorists in the FBI chose not to kill any americans this time!
And isn’t this technically entrapment?
If the police came to me posing as mafia guys offering me mony to garrote a man, gave me two years of assassin training at a ninja camp, gave me the garrote, fee and targets picture and then arrested me before I killed the target wouldn’t that be entrapment?
Black’s law Dictionary’s definition of entrapment:
“The act of officers or agents of the government in inducing a person to commit a crime not contemplated by him for the purpose of instituting a criminal prosecution against him.’ and, “…an undercover agent…perpetrates an entrapment when, for the purpose of obtaining evidence of a crime, he originates the idea of the crime and then induces another peson to engage in conduct constituting such a crime when the other person is not otherwise disposed to do so.”
Of course the interpretation of the words ‘comtemplated’ and ‘disposed’ could be suspected of being the pivotal issues in this definition.
Just thought the actual definition illuminating in this discussion.
For Gawd Sakes, people… DO NOT POINT YOUR FINGERS AND SAY “BANG” ANYMORE… THE FBI WILL ARREST YOU AS A TERRORIST!
This is right on, Zot23. As soon as the kid met with agents voluntarily to plan the attack he became guilty of consipracy to commit an act of terrorism. That’s all him. And depending on the content of his interactions with the Pakistani, he may have been guilty of conspiracy prior to that meeting.
The one caveat here is that all our information is coming from the FBI itself at this point. But unless someone has information to the contrary, this case looks like one where a bad guy is going to get what he has coming.
The reason fans of civil liberties should applaud this is that it represents the appropriate meanso of fighting terrorism. It’s an alternative to bombing other countries, which actually instigates more douchebags like this kid.
So at this point I say “bravo, FBI.”
Only if you had never comtemplated such an act, and was otherwise not disposed to commit the crime.
See Sorrelis v. U.S
I find you blind support for the FBI disappointing. You are passing judgement with only hearing ONE side of the case. You assume guilt BEFORE trial. Very un-American of you. In America you are assumed innocent until a jury of you peers finds you guilty. I ask are you aware of the FBI’s history of Law breaking. Are you aware of what the FBI did to the Black Panthers in the 60s and other anti war groups? It’s easy to take a position like yours if your not a young nieve Muslim. For young muslims America is a real world of FBI fear to live in a Country gone mad.
How many more “terrorists” do they have in the pipeline?
How many will they let through?
Our legal system is broken.
Voting means nothing: they own the system, count the votes, control the media.
They threaded a needle and did it perfectly? It was their own plot. Guilt aside, this was a total waste of money, time and resources. One child is co-opted and helped to plan an FBI inspired plot. Prior to that he made one successful contact outside the country and failed to make another. THAT is the extent of intel on his sources outside the USA. THAT is where it should have ended.
Instead, we get an operation initiated and planned by the FBI. This kid could have been in jail months ago, but the FBI wants to make an example out of him? Or perhaps this is to replace the terror color code which Tom Ridge admitted were used politically to scare the crap out of Americans and make them want to give up more rights.
If this is the job the FBI is doing, it isn’t the terrorist that are scary, it is our complete lack of perspective in our government that is really frightening.
The mammalian submission response.
It’s already happened: see the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.
Will this be used as excuse for another assault on our bill of rights and constitution by installing rape scan scanners and id cards at every road corner and mall entrance to desensitize us to fellow human beings by constant and relentless invasion of their privacy and rights.
Well we can’t be sure that scaring people to take away more of our rights was the FBI’s intent, but based on history I am pretty sure you are correct in that the government will use it to their benefit — especially since the politically inspired terrorist color codes are going away. And heck, it will probably justify bombing another Muslim country as well.
Apparently, terrorist only hate our freedoms . . . not our bombs.
FWIW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n76g57X4hM
WTC Bombing.
Thanks, Teddy. Money never goes to where it’s truly needed, to be sure.
Exactly! Where does it end??? Obviously, I don’t want to die as much as the next person, and I do appreciate a seat belt in the car or other life extending measures, but I have more of a chance getting killed in an auto accident on the way to the airport than a terrorist blowing up the plane on which I am flying. And this was before the radiated scanning of passengers.
We do more to prevent terrorist attacks than prevent people wanting to become terrorists. Have we learned nothing from the war on drugs?
I could not agree more. If the purpose of the Department of Justice is to dispense justice, as Clarence Darrow commented., “There is no such thing as justice-in or out of court.”
The true crime enshrined in the legal system in place in the United States today is the open secret that anyone can get all of the justice under the law that they can afford, which for most average citizens is just plan old ‘dick’.
Discouraging, but true.
BeerNotWar: “…As soon as the kid met with agents…”
There one other point you just mentioned unwittingly… the guy may not have even been an adult when the FBI started throwing bait at him.
I’m adding more local info from Portland…
From Carla Axtman at Blue Oregon…
“…Legally this person is a “man”, but the photo in The Oregonian looks more like a boy to me. 19 year old Mohamed Osman Mohamud, a Somali-born US citizen, is the alleged culprit. My daughter told me this morning that she recognizes him from the photo. Apparently he went to her high school just last year….”
http://www.blueoregon.com/2010/11/fbi-thwarts-terrorist-bomb-attempt-world-officially-crazy/
Terror, terror, terror here, terror there, terror everywhere.
It sounds like several crimes were; in fact, committed before the FBI became involved. The chain of emails will likely presented as the ‘conspiracy’ aspect. Declaring you really want to kill lots of people and then actively pursuing that goal is a crime. The FBI obviously intercepted the emails and had to pursue the investigation. I will simply add it looks like the FBI isn’t the only group who ran a ‘sting’ on Mahamud.
It is the “spectacle” of allowing the plot to continue until ‘detonation’ that stinks. It serves only to sensationalize the conspiracy. A means for the FBI to produce a training video. Fodder for the “ticking time-bomb” torture apologists.
Terror Theater.
Oh come on. I like this site, I live in Portland, I qualify as a leftist, but this argument is bunk. If this kid had managed to get ahold of what he really wanted, a bunch of people would have been killed. And decent people, too; Portland isn’t Florida or some other dirtbag area. The cops suck but this isn’t entrapment for coke or something. Screw this kid, ~~~Edited by Moderator. No calls for violence are allowed at FDL~~~
30,000 Americans die in vehicle accidents every year, and yet we still permit left turns! Where is the outrage against left turns? Where are the resources directed at stopping left turns?
If you’re a leftist, then I’m Winston Churchill’s parrot.
What part of this “terrorist’s” aspirations would have become aspirational without the FBI? The kid couldn’t even get around Oregon without rides from his FBI handlers. They carried him everywhere he needed to be to carry out his nefarious plot. They probably gave him the van!
Welcome to all the “Firedoglake Patriots”.
You destroy your claims to be a leftist by saying that bombing is okay in some American areas, like Florida, which is full of dirtbags in your view.
As many as they need.
They appear to have let this mature way, way past the point of actionable intelligence and gotten way too far into Terror Theater for my taste.
Terror Theater = State-Sponsored Terror
Yes.
Technically, I don’t think there’s any such thing as entrapment the way we think of it, anymore. It seems like the FBI can completely operationalize an otherwise entirely aspirational plan that exists only in some disturbed young man’s head.
Providing him with transportation, bomb-making materials, encouragement and logistical expertise seems to be all part of the “investigation” and, sadly, isn’t even frowned on by the Terror Theater Audience any longer.
How I long to see a sting done on these FBI entrapment scam artists. Get some clueless local cops to take them down and cause embarrassment.
That being said, I feel that the country is letting these new citizens down in not getting them involved in citizenship programs–not to become citizens, but to BE citizens.
All my grandparents were immigrants, and my Polish side were especially proud to be American. When I was a kid in the 50′s and 60′s, the kitschy plaques in the kitchen and the JFK tapestry used to make me cringe. I know better now, and I wish they were still around so I could tell them so. But they’ve been gone 25 years now.
The now-removed call for violence is a bit of a giveaway too.
Or how the FBI entraped the “eco-terrorists” back in 2005. Elle Magazine did a real hero piece on Anna, the FBI informant who entrapped these folks who were more into smoking dope than blowing things up. You can read it here:
http://veganxjen.livejournal.com/4782.html
And speaking of the Pacific Northwest, remember Judy Bari?
Guess the FBI can put together a bomb if they want to.
Jeff, if you’re posting on this site you’re already indexed.
The FBI’s standards are so incredibly low. If they cannot do their job the right way without entrapment – as does the equivalent organizations in the UK and Germany – then they simply PRETEND to do it.
First, the point I was making mreddieb, is that there are only two ways of tackling the problem of terrorism: police work or torturing suspects for information. If you’d like to advance another viable third way, I’m all ears. I’m not aware of any that work. This was the police work method by the FBI, it seems to have been extremely effective at casting a net and snagging some fish. Bushco did the torture thing, it didn’t work out for squat.
Second, I am in no way assuming this man’s guilt (other than to say based on what I read he better have an OJ Simpson level of attorney power to have a prayer of getting off.) Further to what I wrote above, due to the FBI’s terrific police work we now get to have an actual trial, in a legal court of law, with all his rights in place, to determine guilt. Just like he was a criminal and not an “enemy combatant” (which he is, terrorism is a tactic of criminals.) Even if I was assuming his guilt, so what? He still has habeus corpus, access to attorneys, the right to a jury of his peers, and the assumption of innocence *in the courtroom*. WTF does it matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks of his guilt? It’s not un-American to have an opinion about someone’s guilt, it would be un-American to remove his rightful day in court.
Third, I’m not saying the FBI is perfect. I’m not saying they haven’t dropped the ball in the past or can have dubious motivations. What I’m saying is in this case, for this plot, they did it by the book and it worked out nearly perfect. 130 years ago the South held slaves, doesn’t mean I hold all Southern white males in 2010 as culpable in that wrongdoing. Same thing with the FBI, doesn’t matter what happened in the past – in this case they were dead, solid perfect.
Fourth, I think you meant ‘naive’. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. He planned and was committed to detonating an explosive that would have killed or injured hundreds of civilians including women and children. He phoned the number to set off the bomb twice. So excuse me, but fuck him. Naive or not, he is a very dangerous person that needs either mental help or a nice cement cell. Thanks to the FBI, no one got hurt and he’s going to get the remedy he needs in a fair trial.
So for 18 months they gathered information about his contacts and how he was instructed to receive information and that is worthless? So they should have brought him in on day 2, charged him with conspiracy to xxxx, gone to court and possibly lost, then released him 12 months ago? Do you think he would have gone away at that point? No, he was going to blow someone up, he sounded pretty darn committed. By funneling this ‘kid’ into a scheme where he built a bomb and dialed the detonation number himself they now have him locked down and convictable.
I can’t say how valuable the intel they collected about his contacts were, but even if they are worthless at least now we know they are worthless. If you had brought him in on month 1, how could you know that you didn’t just scare away a much larger fish? You wouldn’t, that’s why you do it like this. It’s police work man, good old feet on the street data collection.
The part I find so disturbing is had they arrested this kid 17 months ago and he beat the rap, if there had been a fireball over the Portland Xmas celebration this year you’d be calling for the heads of the FBI agents involved. Do you guys want to catch the terrorists legally or not? Because this is exactly how it is done. Again, I entreat you to tell me a better way that would be as effective and still legal.
It was always amazing that eco terrorists were somehow evil even though all they had done as burn SUVS and the like (not that those are good things, but they never added the right wing movements that actually committed murders, like the prolifers).
I think men in black helicopters took to area 51 so he could be anal probed by aliens.
Or
The evidence is so damning that there is virtually no way they don’t get a conviction. You could entrap me all day long and twice on Sundays – I’m not building a bomb in my basement to blow up an Xmas celebration and then dialing the number twice to detonate it. The suspect did both those things.
If I hand you a gun I say is loaded and you put to someone’s head and pull the trigger twice, was that entrapment? Does it matter? Your intent was deadly and committed and so was this suspect.
While a cursory review of Churchill’s biography on Wikipedia failed to reveal anything about Winston owning a parrot or for that matter any type of bird, your statement does engender a most interesting question:
Is the label we give ourselves true and reliable, or is the label others give us more accurate and revealing?
Again, I entreat any of these folks to post a method better than police work for dealing with terrorists. Where is the magic fairy dust we can sprinkle on the USA borders to make it impervious to attack? All I’m reading is a bunch of FBI bashing, which though warranted in many cases, has no bearing here. I would love to read of an alternative to the way this was done that would have been safer and/or more effective.
IMHO there is none, terrorists are criminals and belong on the radar of the police and the FBI. They brought this suspect in textbook perfect.
Bravo boys, bravo!
Actually, yeah they have.
Plus the USA doesn’t have a lot of fundamentalist Muslims compared to other parts of the world. We do have a bunch of fundie Christians though, they actually pull this shit all the time. They prefer guns to bombs though, usually shoot up a liberal church, a college, their place of ex-employment.
BTW – When they discover those plots they arrest those people too, usually using the exact same methods employed here. It’s called police work, happens all the time…
I don’t know anything about that, so I can’t comment on the specifics. But just because someone makes mistakes in an organization, it doesn’t mean everyone and everything there is automatically suspect (at least to me.)
Hitler was a German, are all Germans as guilty of genocide as Hitler? You fault me for not convicting the FBI of failure on 9/11, I fault you for not being able to stop doing so.
“How do you know he wanted to kill people?”
“I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave dead or injured.” Mohamed Osman Mohamud
Plus the minor detail that he pushed the button on the detonator (actually a cell phone).
eCAHNomics: “on their own, they would no nothing whatsoever to effectuate”
And you know that how, exactly?
PJEvans, are you saying they are not?
Fundie christians don’t tend to plant bombs, they tend to hoard guns and plan massacres. I read about their exploits all the time here in Colorado and the police raids and stings that bring them in. It reads almost exactly like this story, only it only makes it onto the local papers instead of the national news. “Cops in xxxx raid basement containing 35 assault rifles, 5000 rounds of ammo, and high explosives.” That’s a common news item around here, in addition to the shoot-em-up-good plots they foil before they were triggered. Guess what? Many times they infiltrate these groups and “entrap” the suspects into taking actions to get an arrest.
If you’re pissed about the media coverage, blame the media. The FBI just did it’s job, they nabbed a terrorist. I say good on them.
No mention of torture in the article. Why would they need it? They got this guy red handed.
I also don’t know that the Great Cthulu and Shoggoth were not involved as well, I just assumed they weren’t. That’s what some people do with their brains, they think things through and make logical conclusions on the data available.
No mention of torture, no need of torture for a conviction, I will assume there was no torture. Can you prove that there was torture, or is the FBI not accorded the presumption of innocence that other citizens enjoy?
“I find you blind support for the FBI disappointing. You are passing judgement with only hearing ONE side of the case. You assume guilt BEFORE trial”
That’s rather amusing, considering how many here are assuming guilt on the part of the FBI.
“It is all about the timing and the location”
Both of which were chosen by Mohamud…
Thank you. And whattheincorporated: what if the police who came to you posing as mafia guys were responding to your request? Does that change the picture?
Many people seem to be assuming Mohamud would have sat in bitter impotence and never harmed a fly, but are there any reasonable grounds for that assumption? The guy was looking for someone to train and equip him. I imagine the people of Portland are glad the FBI didn’t wait for him to find the real thing…
So the FBI is indicated in planting the idea of, manipulating, and giving material support for the murder of a group of Americans and without provocation– as if violence is ever justified. So we know who should really be on trial first in the court of public opinion and eventually in a real judicial court.
But how do we restore enough of a stable, civilized society to restore a real court of justice? How about starting with this one simple thought: “I will not kill no matter what” and call for the abolition of executions in your community. This will bring the whole death and violence *factory* to a halt. First you have to not tolerate it in your own backyard. Then you don’t tolerate it in your neighbourhood. Then you don’t tolerate it in your city. Then you don’t tolerate it in your county. Somewhere between the city and county level the ripple effects are really adjusting the total system if everyone just starts the process. Meanwhile, you of course do all the smart things to prevent being the subject of violence as the violence that will be continued to be directed toward you will continue– planned in secret and sprung upon you in a reverse-guerrilla-style tactic– as that’s the point of TerroRich-ism. But, eventually it will be overcome.
I was probably too busy playing Halo: Reach. What happened in these commercials?
I thought you knew a lot of stuff. I DID NOT fault the FBI. I faulted a small number “supervisors” and DOJ officials, such as Jamie Gorelick, who sandbagged investigations. FBI agents discovered plenty of suspicious Saudi spies going to Flight Schools for no obvious reasons. That was covered up by Zelikow’s lying 9-11 Commission.
I think the key here is contained in your own observation “this guy was trying hard, if he was willing to wait a year for any kind of word from a contact”.
Clearly he wanted to harm others but even he recognized he needed serious help (the past decade has several examples that it takes an expert to make a decent bomb)- so he was forced to sit and wait until the necessary help was offered. If the FBI hadn’t provided it the most likely eventuality would have been he’d have done nothing but simmer in his outrage at American atrocities against Somalia. They should have just left him out there as bait and check in on him from time to time to see if anything was nibbling.
Have to ask, Teddy, did you either NOT read the actual reporting on this incident, or are you deliberately leaving out the pertinent information ~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~?
The FBI only got involved AFTER the adult, he is over 18, attends college, Somali Muslim was writing to terrorists, offering himself up as a willing perpetrator of acts of terrorism against innocent American citizens. This wasn’t some disaffected kid, any more than those 3 adult Muslim men in San Francisco, who drove around filming themselves shooting gays were disaffected. Or the same type of Islamist jackasses, who roam Minneapolis streets, looking to gang up on and beat and/or kill gays and lesbians, or the Muslim jackass who wanted to blow up an SUV in Times Square. These people weren’t hungry, or starving, they demanded the right to emigrate to the US, they’ve been given everything to prosper, at a time when untold millions of poor US citizens, black, brown and white aren’t getting any help at all. If they want to live in Islamic fantasyland, they shouldn’t have come to the US.
This asshat wanted to blow up innocent Americans, including women and children, he got off on it, as his responses to the people he thought were terrorists, show. He was given many opportunities to back out, reminded that women and children would be killed.
This past few weeks, scumbags like him, slaughtered innocent Iraqi and Egyptian Christians in their churches. Others like them are braying that they will riot if a woman isn’t executed, because they demand non-believers be put to death. Another like them, tried to back his SUV over his wife and daughters, because they disagreed with him over something minor, and that is just the tip of the iceberg, all across the world. I don’t want to read lies like what you’ve written, tin pot loons like this guy, don’t need excuses, they make up plenty for themselves.. but then again, perhaps you agree with misogynistic, homophobic mass murderers?
~~~ModNote: Personal insults make commentary subject to moderation.~~~
“First, the point I was making mreddieb, is that there are only two ways of tackling the problem of terrorism: police work or torturing suspects for information. If you’d like to advance another viable third way, I’m all ears. I’m not aware of any that work.”
Stop creating them – don’t bomb their homes, don’t kill their spouses and children, don’t threaten to burn their religous texts, don’t allow foreign soldiers to break down their doors in the middle of the night, don’t support dictators who brutally stamp out their attempts to bring democracy to their country, don’t threaten them with destruction if they refuse to accede to our Government’s demands. Even the CIA has acknowledged that most of our ‘terrorist’ problem is ‘blowback’. Bring back our troops, save a couple of hundred billion, and stop stirring up hornet nests abroad and we might see our problems just fade away. After ten years of this shit we might at least try to do things differently.
Although so far we are scant on facts, I am uncomfortable with the level of entrapment by the FBI. If they really believed they had a “live one” then real police work would have been to place him under surveillance and when his activities reached the level of crime to arrest him.
What appears to have happened here is that they sifted to find him, molded his psychology, put the event together and took him down in the act. Would any of this have ever happened without their handling and shaping–we’ll never know. What is pretty clear is that the kid wasn’t playing with a full deck. He sent them a thumb drive with driving directions to downtown Portland–that’s rich.
Unfortunately, for this particular terrorist du jour, it sounds like he pulled the trigger and I think that will be what people focus on finally and that this young man is going to take a hard hit for not choosing his playmates more wisely.
The FBI is a tool of a corrupt state and their methods are no better than what we are seeing elsewhere. As regards this circumstance in relation to their other activities, I wish this was all they were doing.
“Mary” – I live in Portland. I happen to know for a fact from someone else who lives here in Portland this guy was in high school with her daughter last year. I know you posted a pile of lies here.
I don’t know if you originated those lies, or got them from some right wing extremist source, but it’s all crud.
The guy was a high school student. The FBI went shopping for terrorist suspects at a Portland area HIGH SCHOOL.
How many of your high school friends would have gone off with somebody that said they want to go see something blow up? It’s teenage boys, for frack’s sake. Have the boys in my high school would have gone along to go see something go boom.
I had a bottle rocket fight in my Freshman dorm ffs.
“Damning evidence” that teenage boys think blowing things up is cool.
The guy was a high school kid. He went to high school last year with the daughter of Someone I know.
The AP has assigned one of their prime propagandists to the story. Nedra Pickler. If you didn’t smell corruption before, you can’t miss it now.
“I am uncomfortable with the level of entrapment by the FBI.”
Uh-huh. Let’s try this on for size, shall we?
Example 1: The FBI gets a tip that Mr. X is trying to make contact with violent terrorists for the purpose of killing a bunch of people.
Example 2: The FBI gets a tip that Mr. Y is trying to make contact with pre-teen girls for purposes I don’t care to describe.
In both cases an FBI agent responds to the attempt, pretending to be exactly what the wannabe is looking for. Emails are exchanged, phone calls, materials are provided. Finally, when the time comes to actually do the deed, Mr. X is busted and Libs scream “entrapment!” Mr. Y is busted and Libs do… what, exactly?
Damn the lack of edit: only the first sentence was supposed to be italicized.
~~~Your comment has been repaired.~~~
It’s easy to knock down straw men of your own creation.
After all, it’s not like entrapment has ever, ever happened.
“The now-removed call for violence is a bit of a giveaway too.”
Snort. Because no true Leftist would ever call for violence, like hanging the leaders of the FBI, CIA, and U.S. military, right?
I didn’t create that “strawman,” Kelly: there have been numerous stings against perverts trying to seduce teens on the internet. Can you point to any real difference between those cases and this one?
Thank you: much appreciated.
My name is Mary, not “Mary”, and do you expect others to believe because a friend of a friend claims to have been in high school with this guy, that he’s some poor Baby Huey, who was coerced or “entrapped” into this by the big bad? Spare me..
Now, what was it exactly that I posted that you describe as a “pile of lies”? Instead of a blanket statement you can hide behind, it’s incumbent upon you to actually state what you claim is a lie, or can’t you engage in honest debate, because you KNOW what I said was the truth, but you find said truth inconvenient?
I’ll keep looking to see if you have the stuff it takes to respond in detail, if not, then please go back and hold hands with your friend of a friend, aka your lie (edited in moderation).
(MODNOTE: disagree with the message but do NOT personally attack the messenger. doing so will result in your comment being moderated)
BTW, the terrorist, and that is what he is, was enrolled at Oregon State University, through 2009, when he withdrew on October 9. Why not tell us where your friend of a friend went to high school with him?
The entrapment you’re spinning never happened. The FBI agents in question went in under cover in a sting operation, and I’m glad they did. Here’s hoping they do more such investigations.
So maybe in this event it would be helpful to step back and look at the larger situation. In fact, as stated by our war generals, we are creating more terrorists than we are killing and also as stated by our war generals we are killing an awful lot of people.
There is a statistic that 90% or something of Afghans don’t know anything about the Trade Tower attacks and all they see is American occupation of their country and a lot of senseless murder of their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, children, neighbors, and countrymen. If the fumbling, bumbling, let the Trade Tower attacks occur FBI can bring this kid to do this act, then think what the real guys could get this stupid kid to do. Yea, that’s right probably anything. Don’t think he is the only one.
This is the fruit of the war on terror and it is used to make us need the war on terror. The only chance really to ever be safe from this is to entirely renounce this pathetic manipulation and to engage the whole world in a justice that would not allow these sort of acts. First thing is we would have to stop them first and it appears the American people have absolutely no control whatsoever over their government so, in a nutshell, we’re screwed.
Nope, each one of us has “Freedom of Choice”- DEVO (link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU ).
“how much would he have accomplished without FBI involvement?”
From reading the excerpts, it sounds like he would have traveled “to Pakistan to participate in violent jihad.” I don’t understand the people claiming this is entrapment.
And told ‘em they could post their adventures on their Facebook pages.
“The FBI went shopping for terrorist suspects at a Portland area HIGH SCHOOL.”
So they’re lieing about having received a tip? You have a source for that?
“I had a bottle rocket fight in my Freshman dorm ffs.”
And prior to the bottle rocket fight did you turn to the guy who provided the fireworks and say, “I want whoever is attending this event to leave, to leave dead or injured.”?
“It is the “spectacle” of allowing the plot to continue until ‘detonation’ that stinks.”
“They appear to have let this mature way, way past the point of actionable intelligence”
A legitimate issue, and raised in a reasonable manner. Obviously, only the FBI knows why, but I can think of a few reasons. Drama and publicity are on the list, certainly, but so is wanting unshakable evidence of intent against the easily anticipated screams of protest.
Teddy, you said elsewhere that a key piece of evidence was missing due to “equipment malfunction,” which could also be why they let this go all the way.