Many here at the Lake went a little (more) crazy when 350.org founder and much-admired climate expert Bill McKibben folded on Keystone XL’s Tar Sands pipeline.
After staging a memorable protest outside the White House last fall, McKibben went inside – and has since loudly applauded Barack Obama’s “threats” to veto any legislation that included the approval of the pipeline’s construction, and his rejection this spring of Keystone’s permit for the cross-border section of the oil-queduct.
McKibben has cheered these developments though the only real question is which happens first: Romney’s concession speech or Obama’s approval of Keystone’s re-application to connect the pipeline at the U.S.-Canada line.
A far pithier poser: Is McKibben – whose organization is (for the moment) an ally of the New Progressive Alliance – so new to activism that he’ll believe whatever a Democrat In A Suit tells him? Or has he cashed in his activist chips for a cushy job working for Democrats In Suits?
I hate to call McKibben out publicly… okay, no I don’t.
I tried keeping it private with Cornel West. Didn’t work.
An erstwhile member of the NPA steering committee, West’s comment earlier this year that there are no realistic alternatives to the major parties was more bullshit than I could take. I told him so in an email, and suggested that if he was unwilling to even acknowledge the existence of Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson, he might not be a good fit with the NPA.
West replied with an obtuse reference to perhaps having Stein and/or Anderson on his radio show, righteous upset at my “threatening” tone, and a request that he be removed from the steering committee.
Subsequent emails between us have resulted in nothing more concrete than a pep talk (“Keep up the great work, Brother Anthony Noel”) and scrupulous avoidance of my earnest inquiry as to whether the good doctor is planning to put his money where his mouth has been for lo, these past three years.
So, until we know for sure that Dr. West really wants to create electoral alternatives and agrees that putting off doing it for one more election – because, it is, after all, the most important of our lives! (just like all the others…) – only deepens the crisis, he is listed thus on our steering committee page: Dr. Cornel West
Alas, this tale, and, I fear, Mr. McKibben’s, are object lessons in how highly effective, loudmouthed activists – people who could foment and lead movements which forever banish self-interest and greed from the equation that dictates policymaking – routinely fold up their podiums and head for the hills at the critical moment: Election time.
I’d planned to contact McKibben privately as well, to ask what the hell he’s thinking. Until, that is, I heard him shilling today on Sirius XM Left. (Even for a stalwart hockey fan like me, six weeks of listening to the reactions of the Los Angeles Kings play-by-play guy to the team’s finally winning the Stanley Cup over on XM 92 is about five weeks too many.)
Leveraging this 6,000-plus word article in Rolling Stone, McKibben is promoting 350’s consciousness-raising tour with Naomi Klein. It begins – wait for it – November 7. The day AFTER we (again) elect a greed-enabling corporatist, rather than a people-supporting activist. Regardless which party wins.
And that’s when it (finally) dawned on me: Publicly ambushing say-one-thing-do-another “progressives” is no more unfair to them than what they do to those who have supported them, when they publicly renege on the stated beliefs that garnered them or their organizations our moral – and more tangible – $upport.
(And let me just add, Ms. Klein: You are fast becoming a former heroine of mine, particularly since you hail from Canada and know what’s possible. Think about what you are doing, for chrissakes. Hunter S. Thompson is spinning in his grave.)
Though it surprised me, considering both the network and the show (Ed Schultz), stand-in host Mike Papantonio did a nice job of pressing McKibben, who attempted to push the (bullshit) line that blame for our still-deepening allegiance to fossil fuels has nothing to do with politicians and everything to do with the oil companies themselves.
Papantonio asked McKibben (paraphrasing from memory, here): “If I wanted to figure out who has been responsible for the continued power of the oil companies, who would I go looking for?”
McKibben: “That becomes about vengeance, and that’s really not going to solve the core problem.”
Papantonio: “But surely there are particular lobbyists who have pushed the lie about how we are not even close to climate crisis…”
McKibben: “If you want to use names, use the logos of any of the big fossil fuel companies.”
Translation: It’s not Obama’s fault, nor the lobbyists. The president didn’t have the votes in Congress anyway. (Indeed, McKibben at one point said as much.)
If it isn’t sufficiently telling that McKibben has chosen to delay his tour until the day after the election, ask yourself this: Why would a self-described climate activist not use an election, held at a time that record numbers of Americans are self-identifying as Independents, to help point voters away from the Big-Oil-bought-and-sold “leaders” who have already signaled their intention to perpetuate the climate mess?
I wrote to Dr. West, “You could be America’s Tommy Douglas.”
The same goes for you, Mr. McKibben. And like Dr. West, you have a decision to make.
350.org has done some great work, but you are putting it all at risk by kowtowing to this – or any corporate-owned – White House.
And we think you know it.
Thirty-five candidates running for everything from school board to the presidency have followed the lead of 350.org and the NPA’s other allies in endorsing the Unified Platform.
Why would you turn your back on them, Bill?
Unless, of course, you’re okay with 350 becoming another MoveOn, or PCCC, or PDA, glad handing Democrats In Suits and taking their money, despite mounting proof that they are not friends – of you or the planet.
Anthony Noel is a facilitator of the New Progressive Alliance.



69 Comments

Obama just rammed through the go ahead for the final southern section of the pipeline. I wonder if the White House demonstrations will return after the election, too little too late.
There’s good elite and there’s bad elite, comrade. That’s how this game is rigged. Know-nothing Repukes alternately lobotomize and terrorize so an elite-favorable descent can be implemented.
Are Bill and Naomi on to this game? Probably, but those Repukes sure are convincing if you are strategizing.
I wonder what would happen if Bill or Naomi would out this cynical game. Think they’d last long?
I give you credit for having an enforced standard – even if it’s based on the mistaken, conventional ideas of climate change.
Regarding Cornell West, I heard him say that “Obama deserves re-election”. I was hoping he misspoke, but apparently he lacks backbone. Either that, or he really believes that Obama deserves re-election, which ain’t much better.
Also, McKibben is a liar. I don’t want to look up the exact quote, but in a front-paged diary at my.firedoglake.com, he pushed the idea that scientists are abandoning dissent against climate catastrophism, with Lindzen as the lone, semi-wounded scientist-warrior, also on his way down. Sheer bovine excrement. I intend to write a diary about this Big Lie, after I come back from “retirement”.
It’s too late to work the easiest pressure point of our electoral system – the primaries – to set up future reform of, and/or abandonment of, the legacy parties, in this election cycle. But in no way is it too late to undertake a massive educational program, and asking Americans to vote 3rd party – ANY 3rd party, as a minimum – to set up future electoral reforms.
Unfortunately, I don’t see obvious signs of this happening in a big way.
I’ll thank you, metamars, not to hijack this thread merely because it relates to climate change, as you constantly do.
Mod, please take note. He has been warned by the diarist, and I’d appreciate enforcement.
I guess that depends on your definition of “last.”
If they refuse to be careerists going along to get along, they can last as long as they like. And if they out the game? They would be heroes, in my book at least.
Indeed, if all of us would take Bucky Fuller’s advice and work for what we believe in, we’d learn what Fuller did: Universe takes care of those who truly care and put their efforts toward that caring. It may not reward you as handsomely as shilling for evil entities with a bottomless supply of ill-gotten funds, but it will give you what you need, usually at precisely the last moment you can possibly continue to go without it.
Let’s hope McKibben and Klein and West trust in that truth and apply their formidable talents for good, without apology – or compromise.
Bizarre. So pointing out Bill McKibben’s severe integrity problem is hijacking a thread, in a diary where you call him out for other moral failures?
Perhaps you don’t see the relevant connection, but I’ll bet most 10-year-olds do.
Perhaps you actually believe McKibben’s big lie, in which case considering my post a distraction would make a lick of sense. Well, you can read my diary, when I write it, though I doubt you’ll be able to process it.
Yes, Bucky’s solid, fearless, transformative advice. This theory of “managed” descent is loose in the environmentalist world, but what high profile person is able to denounce those architecting the descent – and I mean with knowledge of the casualties.
I suspect that the department of war and it’s affiliates have most of these responsibilities and are immovable (and secret). What’s left is political strategy and there the lesser of evil applies tactic applies.
Maybe this is just an Iron Law of Influence – that to move this system you must adopt it’s silences. And so, we cannot expect leadership.
Never said you were hijacking, metamars. Merely asked that you don’t. The subject at hand is breaking – or not – pledges to constituencies. And you know it.
Thanks for respecting my wishes, and please rest assured I won’t hijack your work, either. (Nor will I stoop to speculating about your ability to process information – despite your own proclivity for doing so.)
Would that more humans understood that following their own True Norths would be sufficient, and that having faith that life will provide is enough.
Nice to see you’re so assiduous at keeping your board honest, Anthony.
Rec’d.
But along slightly similar lines, I had no idea about Andy Stern‘s newish gig. Ya just can’t make this stuff up.
The tin soldiers fall, one by one. Fear and the need for financial support compromises our efforts time again. Same as it ever was.
See my diary of today “The Allure of Selling Out” in which I mention McKibben in context.
http://my.firedoglake.com/cassiodorus/2012/07/30/the-allure-of-selling-out/
Thanks for the link, though I must say it doesn’t surprise me. Another could-be player cashes out.
I don’t think it’s either of those two. I think it is ego.
These people have followings that any true activist envies, and (IMHO) feel that losing their fame is too heavy a price to pay, because it means that audience will shrink. So they compromise their beliefs at the dictates of the Democratic Party in election years, and comfort themselves with the knowledge that they are “free” to be stronger critics when offices are not in play.
Then they act outraged about the way nothing changes.
Wow!!! I can understand lesser-evil arguments. But, what he deserves is a war-crimes trial.
Deserves shit. Obama is a great BIG knife sticking in the back. Romney is a great big knife sticking in the front. Take your pick.
This is what Big Names do. We chase them in hopes of gaining some validation in our impotence, rather than digging for the long-term digging in required.
I spent two days sitting in a D.C. jail cell directly across from Bill McKibben, and this diary is nothing more than a malicious hit piece based on useless supposition and opinions, including the author’s views about Cornell West, totally irrelevant.
Bill McKibben in a highly principled, very sophisticated man fighting an virtually impossible battle against the most powerful and entrenched forces on the planet. He is not the naive waif this diary portrays.
Shameful diary.
I’d have been in that cell last August, too, if I hadn’t broken my ankle the week before. But when I saw McKibben’s announcement about going on tour the day AFTER the election, I thought, that’s the exact wrong time if you want to influence the election and policy. You have no leverage then at all. Not what a smart activist would do. So, you’ve got to ask the question, Is McKibben that clueless, or is he just protecting Obama’s flank until after the election?
Really, Scarecrow? A public challenge encouraging someone to continue their activism in the face of co-option is now considered “a hit piece”?
The diary asks a reasonable question about McKibben’s intentions while acknowledging the great work he has done up ’til now.
Leadership means continuing to lead when the climb becomes steep, not just when the path is flat. FDR’s success as a leader was as much about being pushed by first-generation Progressives like Francis Perkins, Harold Ickes, Eleanor Roosevelt and Henry Wallace (and many, many more) as it was about his own tendency toward a Progressive agenda. Historical accounts of his presidency repeatedly point this out.
I don’t like the perception McKibben is creating in recent months any more than you appreciate my pointing it out. But the second rule of social movements (after “Know your enemies”) is that perception is everything.
Ask yourself: Would Occupy enjoy the success it has if there were any notion that it was funded by, say, Lyndon LaRouche? McKibben, West and Klein have chosen the debates in which they are partaking. If we who most want to see them succeed are unwilling to express our dismay when we perceive they are pursuing ill-advised strategies, or to question their motivations for doing so, who will?
Thank you, PlainsEdge. My point exactly.
Thanks.
Cut the crap. Your piece is rife with personal insults. It’s a hit piece.
People can disagree about tactics and leverage all they want, but your piece has taken that pretext to personally attack a friend of our and of this blog, and someone who’s been on the front lines for a long time. If you want to write a post talking about tactics and leverage, then do so, leave out the smearing.
Responding to Scarecrow at 22 (sorry, forgot to hit “Reply”):
What “crap”? What “personal insults”? What “smearing”?
You may think I’m playing some game, but I am earnestly telling you you are wrong. McKibben is a friend to the NPA, too. Does that make questioning him off-limits?
This diary asks if he is novice enough at activism – something he himself has said repeatedly, that the activism piece is still very new to him – that he has made a tactical mistake, or whether he was told and agreed (or perhaps decided on his own) to tone down his criticism until after the election.
How are these unfair or unreasonable questions? Why are you attacking me?
Your piece deserves a couple readings, cassiodorus. This sentence of Bill’s you clipped:
…
interests me because what I’ve begun to learn through the several important Indigenous Declarations that were presented at the Rio Summit was that for instance, carbon credits could be issued to the same transnationals that would then go and clear-cut forests in the southern nations in order to plant very profitable crops, sometimes for biofuels, sometimes mega-plantations of GMO crops using vast amounts of pesticides, not to mention poisoning water, people, and with other dangerous results to a diversified bio-culture.
It’s been amazing and thrilling to me that so many global Indigenous groups understand how easy it is for neoliberal capitalists to sell the idea of ‘Green Sustainability’ to the unwitting public who don’t know the dark side of it.
The easy answers may sound comforting, and we can’t research everything, but those who are acting on our behalves should do so, even within the context of this economic system and present political climate.
It’s a little different, but in a recent conversation about more heterodox economists, and which ones were calling out the fraud, corruption and failure to prosecute…I mentioned Simon Johnson and Joseph Stiglitz (former IMF, World Bank Biggies) had been sounding alarm bells to break up the TBTFs and resurrect stringent firewalls, etc., and was told that they were both ‘just a little left of Summers and Rubin’, and that she only cared for Richard Wolfe.
My shaggy dog point being that yes, we’re operating withing what’s possible now within the system we have, so the nation takes more notice of what they say than Wolfe (though hopefully not so much in the future as we learn more about how mixed economics may save us in the end).
I don’t see a smear here. It really seems to be a valid question to me – well framed even. Besides, isn’t this kind of a disingenuous quibble at a site which happily promotes posts to the front page that declare someone a child-molester?
How does it make a lick of sense to wait until after the election to push specific policy objectives? Doesn’t it seem smarter to put pressure on the platform and shoot for some pre-election pandering?
How do *you* explain this abdication of the field of battle by movement leaders at the time where activists would seem to have the most leverage?
Anthony also talked about this problem of betrayal in Grayson, Kucinich, Warren, and the Road to Hell. The names have changed but the process and concerns remain the same and the beat, it appears, still goes on.
No argument that McKibben has done a great job in the past. I was inspired to participate in 350 activities since 2009 including the Tar Sands Protest and was pleased that he managed to grow a world wide movement. However, there is absolutely no excuse for McKibben’s recent actions. After saying that the Tar Sands would be game over for climate change, he completely folded when Obama made a speech in front of XL Pipeline. Now Obama gets a complete pass. Even if one is politically naive, it is pretty obvious that in any four year election cycle the day after the presidential election is the one day when one is politically weakest.
The NPA was founded largely out of frustration with the tendency among dissenters toward splitting hairs when broad agreement on clearly Progressive ideals is what is really needed to unify the our country. Should a candidate or partner org renege on their promise to support the Unified Platform we will very publicly and unceremoniously disavow them – because, in order to progress, we need to avoid empty promises, which are inevitably followed by justifications of, “I am the lesser of two evils based upon my rhetoric.” The lesser of two evils is still evil – so, to reverse our country’s near half century of decline we must abandon the duopolist demagoguery which landed us here. We must start supporting (or opposing) candidates based on their records, not their rhetoric.
Parenthetically, even in the short time since Anthony wrote here we have added yet another candidate running for office who endorses the Unified Progressive Platform. For the latest details see
36 Candidates, 18 States – And Counting!
Perhaps my criticism of McKibben in that diary is still not focused enough. I don’t feel that with subordination to “markets” there is any way through the ecological crisis.
Greetings, All:
1) At the risk of appearing to be a major butt-sniffer (hey, but sometimes going all cracky-wacky is the only truly sane path back to sanity, yes?), perhaps it’s time to repost and subsequently re-reflect on the following FDL post/diary entry, including its 300+ comments thread:
FDL and the 2012 Election
By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday June 20, 2012 9:21 am
IMO, Jane penetrated and clarified quite well on this particular post — she really “did herself proud” (OMG, it must be the taco I ate last night — I’m not making this up, either — it’s just totally good, clean SOC fun here, folks!) Anyway, I suppose this is why the English language remains the “lingua franca” of choice thus far… Next:
2) Full Disclosure: Alas, my PHQ (that is, my personal hypocrisy quotient) is running quite high right now. Without going into details, I’m presently compelled to remain totally apolitically neutral for the duration of time I remain at a certain locale, and to say the least, it’s really “cramping my style” on several related levels. All I can comfortable state right now is that when it’s late at night and I’m watering Sweet Tree’s leaves, taking whatever measures I have available to me to try to save her from dying in this year’s current drought conditions because s/he almost perished last year and all that s/he has left are the 2 areas of sucker sprouts that grew out on he/r this year(BTW, s/he’s a post oak tree)…Perhaps if I could manage to send out a photo of Sweet Tree so that s/he could tell he/r story to whomever still has a heart to listen…
“Subordination to the markets” is the continuing con behind which the neoliberal descent is managed. In the face of much evidence (which apparently is sufficient for those outside the prison, per wendy’s indigenous) that markets aren’t as caricatured, one must be tempted that the propaganda value of markets is paramount.
So, the question becomes: what secrets is Bill McKibben now entrusted with?
M – murderous
A – assholes
R – relentlessly
K – killing
E – ecological
T – trust
S – synchronistically systemically subversive
Bugger, cassiodorus; the software just ate my comment, and it took fifteen minutes before I could even click back into the site…
But that was the point I apparently failed to make: the Indigenous are way more savvy than Americans, especially Dems, who either believe, or pretend to believe, that market-based ploys are anything but solutions, and that capitalism has any other true aim but commodifying planetary resources the Inigenous and others see as ‘gifts’ and raping them, commodifying human labor at the lowest possible rates in the name of lowering costs in the name of profit…all the things that Dems are now doing in slightly less draconian ways than…Republicans.
And we’ve reached the point that if we continue to allow the uniparty to prevail…well, let’s just say we’re at the tipping point, and so few realize that fact. So keep it up, cassiodorus.
Lol. I just got the mental image of a scene in “Hoffa”. Wonder if someone is handing an occasional truckload of goods to the mob in exchange for their support?
If there is a quid-pro-quo of sorts … and that’s a very big speculation … I imagine the secret McKibben is entrusted with is that his group will see a nice influx of financial support from establishment-aligned “progressive” groups just as soon as their funding isn’t all tied up in this pesky election – when they can get back to the “less critical” business of direct advocacy. It is certainly possible he’s starting the day after election because that’s when he expects the appearance of funding to do a major push.
If his current situation is something like that, It seems kind of implicit that this funding will come through only as long as he plays his part for the party. Remember that time FDL got $250K of establishment funding pulled after chasing Minnick around during the HCR debates? It was pretty much the genesis of the common term “veal pen.” That move was clear message – not many can pull off an emergency $300K fund-drive as FDL did. I don’t think anyone would need to say anything explicitly … the score is pretty obvious.
The Iron Law of Oligarchy, eh? But now they got poor Bill issuing falsehoods. You don’t think it takes a little more to buy him (which reminds me of PW’s comment on Welch’s buying Russert)?
It’s very likely that something has convinced Bill that he has to lie other than a lack of “emergency” funding.
Of course you don’t.
Everyone has their own goggles on, you know.
I truly hope you’re having fun, kgb.
You know.
I didn’t remember that history, if I ever knew it, kgb.
But when I put together this post recently, and went searching for Jane’s posts on her brave FDL actions joining the 2010 ‘Audit the Fed’ coalition, I was really proud of her. To think what that limited audit showed was a game-changer, imo, in showing the Fed was not some healthy private/quasi-governmental body that was operating in any interest of the 99%. It blew the lid off that belief. (Pace to any here who believe in the efficacy of monetary policies like QEs and Twists)
Those memories caused me to imagine, were circumstances different, and could Ms. Hamsher and FDL could have helped bring pressure to bear again, and even eventually forced a vote on SB202 in the Senate.
Even those of us who wrote at other sites were attacked for supporting her great and (imo) glorious efforts for which she was treated abominably by many on the putative left.
Not sure what the heck you are talking about. Although, yeah, I do like discussing stuff online – challenging ideas, having mine challenged … all that happy-hoo-ha. Always nice to get a bit of free time to participate.
How does waiting until after the election to push for policy objectives (any policy objective) make tactical or strategic sense?
Thank you, Anthony, this is a most important diary.
Bill McKibben wrote a piece for Salon, in January of this year (2012) entitled, “The political power of being naive”, its subtext being, “Cynicism makes us complacent. 2011′s successful protests show how hope can change the system.”
Primary among those protests which he celebrates is, of course, the “… fight against the planned Keystone XL pipeline that would bring some of the dirtiest energy on the planet from Canada through the US to the Gulf Coast. We waged our struggle against building it out in the open, presenting scientific argument, holding demonstrations and attending hearings. We sent 1,253 people to jail in the largest civil disobedience in a generation … more than half a million Americans offered public comments against the pipeline …”
If you are correct in your assertions, Anthony, then Bill McKibben owes many people an explanation for his apparent “shift” and change of heart.
Frankly, the motives of those like McKibben, who profess to be leaders of “movements” for meaningful change, ARE open to question and MUST be open to question.
As a number of comments on this thread suggest, the “reasons” for this “change” are very, very concerning.
There is the question of “openness”?
There is the question of “why”?
And there is the question of what, specifically, was offered in return, for climbing, apparently, on board the bus?
You are very correct, Anthony, to question the “after the election”, ‘timing’, of the next “push” … as it will then be far too late for potent political leverage … and it smacks, very much, of the possibility of a too-cozy collusion and the promise of “something”.
I agree with kgb999 @ 25. I see no smear here, only rightful and proper questions. Questions which rightfully deserve being asked and properly deserve being answered.
And silence that is, no response, will speak very loudly.
Now, some may possibly suggest that FDL is not the proper forum for raising such questions, that those questions should either be raised elsewhere … or not at all.
In my opinion, those would be very seriously inappropriate suggestions; for FDL, despite its claims of being “privately owned”, can only exist by making use of the commons, the “public space” of the internet, which is “owned” by ALL of us … and encapsulates a very fundamental issue facing all of us. Which question is this; where is there ANY public space or place where just grievances and germane questions may be raised and discussed by the people …? Being precisely the issue which Occupy has made evident in city after city, and which is one of the topics discussed on the Charlie Rose link which Southern Dragon put up this morning at Lakeside Diner, wherein Rose speaks with David Harvey and Richard Wolff.
DW
I don’t know the guy. I think it’s totally fair to observe that he is taking a course of action that doesn’t make much sense if the objective is successfully pressing for policy results – and fair to observe that the change in approach came after meetings with the highest levels of the Democratic establishment.
It’s pretty easy for me to imagine him facing a situation similar to one I’ve seen other Democratic-aligned activist groups face … and reacting differently. Beyond that, I’m at a loss to speculate.
To me, a better explanation from the perspective of McKibben would be instructive to the discussion.
Thank you, DW.
My humble opinion – and, I’ll say, sincere hope – is that there was no quid pro quo, which is why I never came near insinuating as much in my diary. I believe the expert co-optors (ers?) in the Democratic Party worked their magic and convinced Bill that an eighth of a loaf (Obama remaining in the WH, somebody who the planet rapers at least hate) is better than no loaf at all (Romney, whom they love).
All of which – not least the planet-rapers-hate-Obama part, in view of all the reasons he has given them to love him – is bullshit, of course. But, along with McKibben’s self-described newbieness in terms of activism, it is also why I am willing consider the possibility of naivete.
When 350 signed on as an NPA ally, nobody held them at gunpoint. With them as with every other allied org, we laid our cards on the table, making very clear what we are about and why: helping to establish a people-first approach to policy making by working one lilttle corner of the system, the electoral one. Doing so by holding those who claim to support the Unified Platform accountable to it.
It is a strategy espoused for years by Noam Chomsky as the ONLY way to regain control of our destinies: Say what you believe and support no candidate or organization that won’t swear to fight for it.
McKibben sincerely may not see what he’s giving away by going on hiatus until November 7. So those of us who do see it have a responsibility to tell him.
As far as that goes, one big reason for the backlash was that “The Fed” had been exclusively a concern/political issue on the right. How *dare* anyone support even a fragment of such a horrible, horrible school of thought.
I think both Jane and Bernie Sanders deserve credit beyond just pushing that one action. The longer-term result of even *engaging* that debate from the left was that it has created space within mainstream liberal orthodoxy to discuss oversight of the fed as a valid policy objective. That’s a pretty seismic shift.
We’re a bit off topic here … but that really is a no small accomplishment.
x2, well said, kgb.
Of course; sorry but all I’ve got are good suspicions.
There are many “Cornell West’s”. They have no other option in regard to a public statement.
It would be most useful, Anthony, were Bill McKibben to offer some explanation, even if it is precisely as you hope, for his willingness to make a rather substantial turn-around if, indeed, he has … and it would be thoroughly valuable were he to do so before the election … one might even say “soon”.
As McKibben extolls the value and virtue of naivete, then your “take” may well be the correct one … from McKibben’s perspective. I am not so certain that it is the proper or even reasonable course if McKibben seriously wishes, or intends, to slow environmental destruction, however.
Regardless, it would seem that McKibben must “buy” into the “lesser evil” and the “there can only be two … viable parties” perspective which, again, seems extremely “limiting” in its efficacy in terms of halting or reversing environmental degradation and destruction, in terms of what may or may not be discussed, considered, or “suggested”.
So, my hope is that Bill McKibben might chose to discuss his reasoning with the rest of us, rather than assuming that he is above being questioned … especially, in terms of the implication that he will take no actions until AFTER the election.
This is an issue of strategy that begs further elucidation, discussion, and even disagreement … and certainly among those with whom he is “out”wardly aligned.
Naomi Klein might also, one hopes, seek to put her support of doing little until after the election, if that is, indeed, her “position” in some context, as well … as it relates, directly, in my opinion, to coming to honest grips with the “doctrine” of shocking the people into submitting to further loss and diminishment.
Yes, those who see … DO have the obligation of responsibly seeking clarity and understanding, of seeking dialogue and communication with those who are regarded as allies.
Even if it is not a comfortable or easy thing to do, perhaps especially then?
Again, Anthony, thank you … and recommended to the consideration of everyone at FDL.
DW
Well said, kgb.
Anyone whose diligent efforts expands of the “permissable” discussion deserves acknowlegement, respect, and appreciation, kgb.
Jane Hamsher certainly deserves more than a little of those things, as does FDL, for not merely allowing but actively encouraging broad and far-ranging debate.
DW
Cornell West’s statement is a true reflection of how far up shit creek we are. We have a problem without a solution, fighting among ourselves is pointless.
While there is no solution, there are options. Vote “R”, vote “D”, or not vote at all. Since we’re not Republicans, we can scratch that one. Vote “D”, since we’re dissatisfied, that’s no good. The best option is not to vote at all, but that’s useless as well, unless we send a message.
We must send a “unified” message. The “occupy movement” has numbers, if we decided as a unit not to vote, that might be enough to send the Democratic Party the message that they need to make some drastic changes. I believe this message was sent in 2010, and FOX TV hijacked the message, therefore our message must be strong enough that there can be no misinterpretation.
Never mind that Romney wins, we will have gained “unity”, something which we’re nothing and nobody without. There is no short term solution to this problem.
If Barack Obama wins, what have we won? Please, I’m all ears; will anybody tell me what we’ve won?
The Occupy movement has numbers, but numbers are useless if they can’t develop a cohesive message. They’ve got to get down to some serious business in order to have a serious impact on their future.
I believe “now” is the time for the occupy movement to “morph” into the third party that can win the 2016 election. A third party that’s in harmony with us, is our only win.
Yes, Bill says: “I sold X for Y.” Apparently, your being informed is part of X.
This should be a diary.
Even more amazing, the Fed was considered to a Fringe Right concern until then, and even with Bernie’s agreements to weaken the bill’s audit sphere, it blew that (cliche) Overton Window wide open.
And I had no intention of limiting the size of the shift, and loved reading Jane’s post from back in the day. My point was partially that this site has long been a place to air viewpoints that weren’t considered altogether kosher in the mainstream, or even ‘lefty’, blogsphere.
This discussion seems somewhat parallel, and if it can’t happen here…then where?
I agree with Ludwig, @48, lakota, this should be expanded into a diary that invites considerable further discussion.
I hope that you might consider so doing.
DW
That there is no alternative(TINA) to the capitalist system is hammered into the populace of the planet constantly. Academicians in the majority of universities around the world are not intellectuals but conformists because the vast majority believe in no other alternative to the system, thus they rather cling to a job then upset the system. This produces only more conformist. Capitalism and the degradation of the environment go hand in hand. Look at the opening ceremonies of the Olympics to see a dynamic diorama of the capitalist viewpoint of nature. “Out of the box” thinking will not come from conformist and the political puppets chasing money, thus selling out is natural to them.
“The Occupy movement has numbers, but numbers are useless if they can’t develop a cohesive message. They’ve got to get down to some serious business in order to have a serious impact on their future.”
With all due respect, I firmly disagree. Occupy has been clear from the beginning that the way to kill the movement, limit its scope, dilute the predominant message of 99% v 1% is to have any electoral message whatsoever. Candidates claiming to represent the democracy movement were roundly asked to cease in many cities (I blogged about it, can’t remember which ones, sorry.)
The over-arching message is that we’re totally under rule by corporate money (as in Wall Street banks and multinationals), Citizens United besides, and that wealth mal-distribution now totally allows federal policy (often state) and the tax code to be under the total control of the few at the top end of the wealth scale.
Trying to turn the movement toward an electoral movement in support of a candidate might seem good to you short term, but: think long term.
IMO, you would never find new people joining the movement who were any other place along the political/social spectrum but those who’d buy into say, a Stein Green platform, or indeed, any of the other 3rd party candidates.
Stein and Anderson had the opportunity to form one ticket, but they didn’t, no matter how pragmatic the idea was, in order that they could secure just that much larger a percentage of the vote to actually be seen as a protest vote, but one aimed toward a future party that intended to endure after the hoped-for non-violent Second American Revolution.
And please be assured that the committed Occupiers are busy learning ways to rethink democracy, rethink our economic system, and hopefully even use new terminology for a system without all the old socialist buzzwords and limitations from the past.
Anyhoo, that’s my take, for what it’s worth. ;o)
p.s. I forgot to mention a small case in point; Cathy O’Neil, a former quant for JippyMo or another big bank watched event at Zucotti Park, and had to join them, according to her interview in Frontline’s ‘Money, Power and Wall Street’. She joined an economics Occupy working group that’s apparently still alive. I have no idea what their alternatives might look like, but she has a post up today at Naked Capitalism on math, stats, and poseurs in the field. That stuff is way beyond my ken, so I didn’t read it, or the comments. But stuff IS happening, even though the encampments have dissolved.
Thank you Anthony for this diary, and all for their comments, particularly DW for the link at the Diner to the Charlie Rose episode, which I would have missed otherwise.
Recommended.
lakota, I once felt exactly as you do now: Don’t vote. But that’s not how movements are built. If you’re dissatisfied, why not at least let your dissatisfaction be counted? Your notion that Occupy will morph into a winning party as early as 2016 is nice, but very, very unlikely given the voting laws. And why might that be? Take a look at which parties write them!
I strongly urge you to subscribe to Ballot Access News, edited by the brilliant Richard Winger, to gain an appreciation for what new parties are up against, and why waiting for additional parties when there are plenty of options already – once you take the time to learn about them – is folly.
The best options for this year are Jill Stein (Green), Rocky Anderson (Justice), and Stewart Alexander (Socialist) for president. Californians may want to consider Cindy Sheehan and Roseanne Barr, who are running on the Peace and Freedom party ticket. And more than 35 candidates for a host of offices have now endorsed the Unified Platform, which is linked in an above comment.
Relatedly, IMO there will always be a need to distinguish and differentiate between political party and social movement. The Greens/GPUSA found this out the hard way a long time ago (see Wiki entry, etc.)
To speculate: would the present situation be any different at this time if those now in third-party positions had stepped up during the time we at FDL were “fielding” possible Democrat(ic) presidential primary challengers? Would the extra time and effort expended been enough to have a bearing on the potential electoral outcome here?
Sadly but also relatedly, Dennis Kucinich, IMO you could grow green wings and/or invent a bona fide warp drive system that could take me ever higher and faster to a place where I could never hope to go alone — and still you will never sufficiently rectify/”redeem” yourself re: the A.C.A. “compromise” you apparently/allegedly worked out while aboard the CIC’s modern-day aeroplane…Clintonites, are you listening?
Anybody for swimming?
Where’s those ^*&%**$*%$ solar panels, anyway? I’m looking outside at several buildings right now and do I see ONE lousy…oh, hell, no — I see a &*^^*&^%* parking lot full of fossil fuel guzzling four-wheeled antiquated memorials to Flying F’ing Flintstonism, that’s what I see out there…How long? How much longer?
I think everyone should take a moment to understand Cornel West’s dilemma. It’s much deeper than our own. He was once a friend of Barack Obama who threw him under the bus the day he got elected. Although I’m sure his feelings toward the man are much more intense than ours, what’s he supposed to say, “I think Barack Obama is a total piece of shit”, which is what he’s thinking; but after all Barack Obama is, the first African American president, and to say “He’s a total piece of shit” would not be kosher when he’s running against Romney.
Barack Obama understands West’s dilemma, the same as he understands ours, and he probably laughs himself to sleep when he thinks about them, and counts the dollars that keep on rolling in.
Sounds like you know a lot more about the movement than I do. I have very high hopes for them. They’ve been cheated, and I know a lot more about the people who cheated them than I do about the occupy movement.
I wish them the best.
It’s only a dilemma if West makes it one. If he is unable to be as colorblind in critically analyzing the president as the president clearly was when it came to dissing him, West has no one’s demons still to slay but his own.
It really is as simple as that. Making it more complex, whether the justification is race or lesser evilism or anything else, excuses what the nameless thousands hard at work for fundamental change will only – and rightly – call a slap in the face, from someone with the audience and talent and – we thought – cojones to make a real difference.
A possible beginning, even though I’m wary of how much of a gift it might be, especially after the showcased (?) 1/4 million acres… Not the governmental solar Manhattan Project some of us had envisioned…
He’s been in the past, I thought, calling out Obama for forgetting the poor, so his new position, if so, sorta surprises me. But he took a lot of grief from the black community.
I was so excited by the ‘Occupy the Dream’ social gospel movement, and reckoned that it was a game-changer as per my Tipping Points to Revolution/Massive Resistance series.
When either Ford or Dixon (BAR) posted that the black ministers were before their congregations the Sunday after the big inauguration of the movement, announcing that congregants needed to GOTV for Obama… I felt duped…again. Another Occupy cooptation. Dave DeGraw, who helped organize it, disappeared after that, too. Damn.
“I think everyone should take a moment to understand Cornel West’s dilemma…He was once a friend of Barack Obama who threw him under the bus the day he got elected…what’s he supposed to say, “I think Barack Obama is a total piece of shit”
Just don’t endorse him, as West seems about ready to do, and do not spread nonsense about there being no third party alternative. Look, I worked for and perhaps even loved Barack and yes, he did fill me full of hope. I understand it hurts, but we should be adult about the future of our country. West is not the only one. I got tired of and quit the Sierra Club with all their “Kudos to Obama” after every environmental betrayal. McKibben and many other democrats and pseudo independents also disappoint. The only answer I see is, as Anthony suggested, to have a standard (for example the Unified Progressive Platform at http://newprogs.org/unified-progressive-platform-ratified) and hold politicians to it. It may take awhile, but other methods tried since 1973 do not work.
Dr. West has complained about the New Jim Crow.
Obama is pushing the New Jim Crow paradigm more than anyone: Locking up African Americans and poor people for Marijuana.
Self deception is the worst kind, and it dies hard. Denial is not a river in Egypt, but a state of mind that seems to persist in these times.
It’s amazing how different people from different parts of the country, have the same excuses for his failures.
“The Obama Deception”, whether or not it’s made by our friends or enemies, has a ring of truth. Can anyone respond to that, or is it a bad subject?
In all honesty, after Barack Obama, I need a vacation. It’s for sure I don’t have enough time to make a decision regarding so many parties.
Fine, just call it what it is – apathy. Don’t try to sell no voting as “the only alternative” to the corporate parties, because that’s just not the case.
How about voter “neuropsychosis”.
Hah! Okay, I’ll take it :)
Thanks lakota, and all for your thoughtful comments.