Aunt Toby’s short answer: No.
Aunt Toby’s longer answer: Hell no.
“On the economic potential of the nascent shale revolution, even some career environmentalists sound impressed, if cautious. “This thing is a potential game-changer,” says Fred Krupp, president of the New York-based Environmental Defense Fund (EDF). Shale production in the U.S. has increased from practically nothing in 2000 to more than 13 billion cubic feet per day, or about 30 percent of the country’s natural gas supply. That proportion is heading toward 50 percent in coming years.
The U.S. passed Russia in 2009 to become the world’s largest producer of natural gas. An Energy Dept. advisory panel on which Krupp sits estimated in August that more than 200,000 jobs, both direct and indirect, “have been created over the last several years by the development of domestic production of shale gas.” At a moment of 9.1 percent unemployment nationally, additional decently paid work is just one potential benefit. “Natural gas burns cleaner than coal, emits less in the way of greenhouse gases, and avoids mercury and other pollutants from coal,” Krupp points out. “So this could be win-win, if—and this is a big ‘if’—we do it the right way.
Since we have this going right at our doorsteps here, just over the PA border, I can tell you what shale gas production does do:
1) It makes jobs for gas workers who are brought into the area from outside (in PA, most of the people working are from Oklahoma and Texas). These folks buy food and gas so there is a bit of sales tax revenue there. However, a lot of that money is going back home to THEIR families.
2) It makes work for people in construction because the gas workers absorb any and all available rental housing. When the new housing is created, then local people needing it can find housing – but the new housing is much much more expensive to rent since local people have been priced out of the market.
3) It makes work for road crews who have to constantly repair all the damage that the drilling rigs and trucks do to local roads. Local governments have to then go after the drilling companies and try to get them to pay.
4) It makes work for the people who install ‘buffalos’ which are large fresh water tanks which are required when drilling activities (and negligent crews) cause ground water contamination.
5) It makes work for firefighters when negligent drilling crews cause explosions and fires at drilling sites.
6) It makes work for local law enforcement when drilling crew members clash with local residents in places like bars (there have been at least 2 murders in counties close to me under these circumstances).
What shale gas production does not do:
1) it does not make jobs for local residents. They are not hired on drilling rigs because – this is not an industry that we have had before; so our people frankly do not have the skills (whether or not the crews brought in from OK and TX to do the work DO is another issue entirely. They have shown already that they know how to dump fracking brine in National forests, cause explosions, poison farmers’ water and cattle).
2) It does not make energy any cheaper for local residents. It is not was if drilling and production companies have agreements with local communities that they will set up a pipeline to some sort of storage facility and allow local residents to get cheap gas. In the area just south of us, pipeline companies are scrambling to get the Millenium and other pipelines done so that the Marcellus can be made accessible so that energy companies can buy and sell this stuff by itself or sell it to electric generators.
3) It does not make the real estate any more valuable; as a matter of fact, because of rules giving drillers the right to horizontally access the land of people who have not signed lease agreements (yes, this IS true here in Upstate NY), land is actually less valuable. Why would anyone buy a piece of property where they do not have rights to keep it and the water supply on it safe?
4) It does not conserve the natural beauty of property. When a holding pond leaks or spills (which actually has happened quite often in PA), it not only ruins the water supply and can kill livestock – it also kills anything growing on the land as well.
So, who will benefit?
The energy companies (and by the way, natural gas prices right now are highly depressed because of the oversupply of Marcellus gas from PA, OH, and WV coming into the market. No one is storing this stuff and waiting for higher prices later) are able to buy very cheap gas now for either natural gas supply or to use to produce electricity. Too bad the industrial economy is so depressed that no one needs it. What they will probably do is liquify it and put it on tankers bound for China.
The drilling companies will do well.
Some individuals will do well.
The communities will not.
And in the case of Pennsylvania, I can tell you that the commonwealth has already in a bunch of cases allowed drilling companies to vacate agreements to provide safe drinking water, to repair roads and bridges and so on, leaving the damage to local and state taxpayers. Oh, and Pennsylvania STILL has not figured out a system of fees and fines on this.
Guys – the horse is out of the barn already. Krup’s comment about ‘if we can do it the right way’ is totally moot. Companies like Cabot Energy and Chesapeake have been doing shale gas production through fracking for years (oh and there were four 4+ on the Richter scale earthquakes in Oklahoma recently; don’t tell me this is NOT from the fracking that is going on down there). You’d think they’d know how ‘to do it the right way’ already.
They don’t and they don’t have any control over the negligence of the crews.
But they sure don’t want to have to pay for it once it’s happened; and once the brine hits the water table, it’s pretty hard to stuff it ‘back in the barn.’




33 Comments

With a few minor alterations, this could apply to the oil boom in North Dakota (which also uses fracking to get at its underground booty: http://www.wupr.org/2011/10/17/boomtown-usa/):
– Lack of housing spurring a housing boom/pricing locals out of market
(http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/09/16/north-dakota-oil-boom/)
– Farmers forced to stand by helplessly as their land is taken over by drillers, because while the farmers may own what’s on the surface, they don’t have the mineral rights (http://www.governing.com/topics/energy-env/north-dakotas-oil-boom-blessing-curse.html)
– Trashing of roads and other infrastructure, and no indication that the oil companies will ever pick up the tab for this (http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/04/8620188-oil-boom-brings-growing-pains-to-north-dakota-town) (http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/09/16/north-dakota-oil-boom/)
– The fear of what happens once the boom ends (http://www.wupr.org/2011/10/17/boomtown-usa/)
Oh, and guess what? The boom is only for the western part of the state; the rest of North Dakota is still suffering just as much as we all are.
But how much money have the beneficiaries spent on TV ads that tells us how good this is for us, esp jobs.
Well, there are tradeoffs for the energy goodies for sure.
I was wondering when the ND shenanigans would surface here, what with the pipeline controversy slashing across the horizon there.
There are environmental costs to come for ND, no? Would the following be slanted or not?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576602524023932438.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203707504577010463934234498.html
Now, the goal is to get the NorDaks to question their skyrocketing property values and jobs galore. . . as far east as Fargo and Grand Forks, BTW, which is about as far east as you can get there. Yes Bakken is centered further west, but. . .the jobs and houses don’t all sit right on top of an oil or gas well.
This seems like another bubble in the making to me.
One nice benefit up there has been a choice of excellent higher ed options for your kid — $10k, or so, a year. They also like out-of-staters. I wonder if such a benefit will be crowded out by the new oilies’ economy rolling in dough and polluting whatever they can.
No clue, eCAHN – I know I have received several phone messages on our house phone instructing me to call up Gov. Cuomo and the Commissioner of the NYS DEC to tell them to allow natural gas development (they never mention ‘allow hydrofracking’) and we have received several very large, colorful pieces of direct mail to our house with the same instructions from the energy groups.
Ads on my local TV about how great natural gas is for job creation. As I don’t have a land line, I don’t get the robocalls. And throw out all snail mail that is advertising without opening it.
Cuomo’s a real disaster, no? A O with diff pigmentation.
WRT development more generally, I’m more familiar with it in its gentrification costume than its ind costume. The very short version is that existing residents always lose.
The only good argument here is potential environmental concerns as it relates to drinking water – which is soon to become an increasingly valuable commodity, or that too much carbon dioxide may be released from the process.
Your economic arguments are just wrong. Creating jobs for “outsiders” is still creating jobs. Producing a commodity that has economic value – as opposed to leaving it in the ground – also adds to GDP and jobs. Cheaper and more plentiful energy also helps other industries, and what we can’t use, we can export, which again all adds to GDP and jobs.
Does all that value stay local? No. But you can argue against literally any industry by saying much of the value of that activity will go to “outsiders.” But the truth is in a global economy we all benefit from the sum total of local activities. That’s how the economy works – nothing is local anymore.
Fracking May Have Caused 50 Earthquakes in Oklahoma
http://www.care2.com/causes/fracking-may-have-caused-50-earthquakes-in-oklahoma.html
Oklahoma!OK! Go Inhofe!
Except for the freeking fracking deep gas wells are a blessing here in Louisiana. But this is an oil state where the people and the oil companies have had generations to learn to live together. I have done Court House work chaining titles for oil companies seeking leases here. I was surprised how many of the common people own mineral rights and are receiving royalties. None of the problems reported in North Dakota.
If the fracking poisons our water (I tend to believe it does but I am not an expert) then of course the whole thing sucks.
I thought I smelled something. Did someone fart in here?
You so funny.
Whole energy ind accounts for 2% of all jobs in U.S. It’s trivial.
Why can’t the cowboy & the fracker jest be friends.
Once again Awnt Toby rawhks it, thank you for a great diary.
Ends THAT robotroll story.
*G*
Prolly that used toilet paper just above yer comment methinks.
Phew. ;-)
Another issue is how long these wells will continue producing once they are drilled. I think that data from Texas is that production starts to drop after about 5 years. When they start to be more expense than they are worth, the owners will walk away with the money and leave us with the rusting pipes and pollution.
Here in West Virginia, the state is covered with mined out abandoned coal mines (underground and surface mined) that were somewhat marginal in the first place, exploited and then left to pollute the water and endanger the people who live there. Likewise there are hundreds of old oil and gas wells, drilled a hundred years ago, in another great boom that made several millionaires and accumulated inheritances for their children but left the state in poverty.
We have seen it all before.
“Creating jobs for “outsiders” is still creating jobs.”
Not if the money for those jobs is largely sent home (the typical boomer in both PA and ND is a guy from out of state with a family back home to support; between sending them money and paying the inflated rents for the scarce existing housing (many boomers are forced to live in their vehicles), there’s not much left over to spend at local restaurants, et cetera. Landlords and real estate developers are happy; everyone else, not so much.
Oh, yes. West Virginia, Kentucky, much of the Appalachias.
“Daddy won’t you take me back to Muhlenberg County…”
Make the pie higher!
Fracking not just a problem in Oklahoma.
Earthquakes in Lancashire, England.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/8864214/Fracking-blamed-for-Lancashire-earthquakes.html
Toby, where in NY are you? We have property near Cooperstown and that area is caught up in the controversy. Fracking in that region made the nyt the other day. There were the requisite two local people on opposite sides. The article did not discuss the problems in any detail. The main point listed as being in favor was that it would bring prosperity to the locals that have land but are struggling to hold on. There was no indication that by the time they frackers were through, the area will be fracked for good. Thanks for staying on this.
Even if fracking natural gas does everything its proponents claim, even if it does absolutely nothing to harm the environment(yeah, big IF, but go with me here for the sake of argument), it is still a relatively short term solution. Just another non-renewable energy source that makes just a few thousand people rich in our current economy.
You know, I MIGHT actually support fracking for natural gas, IF there was actually a strategy in place to replace it with a truly sustainable energy source down the road apiece.
But there’s not.
if we need fracking to restart our economy then our economy is better off dead
at least we’d leave future generations some hope
fracking is the epitome of the american descent into moneygrubbing and, if we had the slightest self-respect remaining, we wouldn’t even be discussing chopping up land all over the country to put more carbon into the atmosphere
at long last, have we no shame at all?
While eCahn is correct as to the small percentage of all jobs we are talking about, you are correct the economic effect is large and job producing is a good – better to spend the development money in the US than elsewhere.
But as you note the environmental concerns as it relates to drinking water are in the end more important than those jobs.
No shale.
No coal.
No tar sands.
No CBM.
No Bakken.
No nukes.
Most renewable energy comes from hydro –
And hydro potential is maxed out.
Other renewables account for only about 3% of total demand.
Unless you suggest turning off the switch on the entire economy -
Where are you prepared to make difficult choices?
Because it is far too glib to berate everything.
The difficulty is making choices – none of which are ideal.
PS – I suggest you check out the employment figures by state and see which state has below 4% unemployment. Then consider why the left has been losing blue collar trades. Without a materialist framing, leftist arguments will be easily skewered by the right.
PSS – I have more than 100,000 miles on my bicycle and am quite aware of the addiction to fossil fuels.
There must be a Green Apollo Project, in which the full resources of the United States are engaged to research, develop and maximize renewable energy. Part of that means an enormous commitment to upgrading the power grid. Much of this work will require blue-collar labor. That’s what Obama should have done when elected and what should be done today. If the plutocrats refuse to implement such a program your complaints are with them and should be directed there.
The short of it is we must IMMEDIATELY curtail our use of carbon fuels or the planet will be under siege within 50 years and today’s economic problems will be deemed trivial in comparison to the social collapse and economic upheaval that climate change and rising sea levels will engender. Not to mention that the earth belongs to everyone, including future generations; we hold it in trust for our children and children’s children and we do not have the moral right to destroy it to sate our immediate wants. Indeed, our selfish and immature refusal to consider the consequences of our actions is the sickness that is ruining our country and our world.
Last year, worldwide carbon emissions rose 6%, which is the worst-case scenario for IPCC climate modeling. If you want to know what that means for the planet and its people you should go and read, starting here.
http://www.ipcc.ch/
You’re right it’s better to destroy the environment now for selfish desires than to think about our children’s children’s children.
Welcome to————— http://www.clothes6.us ———————————-
All kinds of world brand shoes,jeans,t-shirts,bikini,beach pants,handbags,wallets,sunglasses,belt,caps,watches etc..
—————have some cheap things …———————
————————— free shipping!
If you think our website is good,you can put this website to collect bookmarks or other places, easy to find …
Oh, I’m all for a Green Apollo Project. We have the technology, we can do it. But it has absolutely no chance of happening under our current kleptocratic government. None.
Just one more reason for supporting movements like OWS and abandoning the Democrats and Republicans.
Can fracking reignite our economy? The answer, obviously, is “yes”.
If by reignite, you mean “torch”.
It will torch our economy to use from 1,000,000 to 7,000,000 gallons of water per frack job per well. Wells can be fracked up to 18 times each. Half of the water stays underground, radioactive tracers and all; half is brought to the surface as “produced water”, where it goes – if we’re lucky – into lined surface pits, from which the chemicals evaporate into the air. Or, the industry can use deep injection wells to get rid of the stuff. Out of sight, out of mind!
The methane that is released from the fractured ground produces twice the greenhouse gas emissions of coal. That can torch our economy!
With regard to “Energy Apollo Project”, we have already done it: Nuclear energy. The following is a long (but hopefully cogent) argument explaining why nuclear energy is really our only long-term alternative.
Because of the laws of physics, in particular the 2nd law of thermodynamics, there is really no such thing as “renewable” energy. The sun is the major supplier of earth’s energy, directly or indirectly, with geothermal and nuclear being the exceptions. Of course, the sun has a few billion years left in it and we should capture as much as we can. Because the sun’s energy is dispersed”, the laws of thermodynamics and factors of entropy require some means of “concentration” of this energy if we are to ever to be able to use any significant amount of it. The three costs to consider are: production, storage, and distribution.
Hydrocarbon energy (coal, natural gas, oil, etc): This is really “indirect” solar energy captured and concentrated *very slowly* over tens of millions of years by photosynthesis in vast amounts of ancient flora. The energy, originally from the sun, is stored as chemical energy in hydrocarbon molecules. These hydrocarbons were “pressure cooked” in the earth to various degrees giving us peat, shale, coal, oil, and natural gas. The energy density in any given amount of “fossil” fuel is *many* orders of magnitude greater than anything that can be captured directly from the sun (solar panels). Each liter of fossil fuel is equivalent to many acres of solar panels, in terms of energy density. Fossil fuel energy is cheap to store and distribute, also. Production costs are rising and will continue to do so.
Hdyro (dams, etc.): Energy from the sun in “real time” but very
inefficient. The solar energy transforms liquid water into a vapor
which is moved about the atmosphere in a random fashion, where a tiny amount of it is condensed back into liquid water *at a higher elevation* than the original liquid. This gives such bodies of water gravitational potential energy, to use the proper physics terminology. The topography where this energy can be stored and used is found only in a few places. This makes “energy storage” more problematic than fossil fuels (although storage is cheap), since the deposition of the liquid water is somewhat random (droughts.) Since this energy can’t be distributed, it is converted to electrical energy which is expensive to store but cheap to distribute (the grid.)
Direct solar (solar panels): Very, very inefficient and likely to remain that way due to the “dispersed” nature of the energy it is trying to capture. This is why it takes acres of panels to come anywhere near to practicability. Direct solar has one killer problem: storage. The energy produced (electric potential) is *extremely* difficult to store. The technology of some type of “molten salt” storage (where heat energy is stored instead of electrical) will have to be developed for this to approach large scale utility. It is also very unreliable, i.e. the sun doesn’t always shine. Production costs are high and have stayed somewhat
“flat” for several decades. (Damned old laws of physics.)
Wind power: Strictly small scale as the number of places where this
works to any degree of efficiency is way less than hydro. This has the same storage problem as direct solar. Like all of the above, it is ultimately “dilute” solar power, since the sun is the ultimate energy source for all weather and wind. Production costs are low, though.
Geothermal: This is one of two types of energy that is not ultimately solar in origin. (The other is nuclear.) The heat from the core of the earth comes from the residual heat in the initial accretion of the earth along with some fission of heavy elements deep within the earth. This “fuel” will eventually be used up as the earth cools, but the length of availability is probably of the same magnitude as the sun’s fuel. To tap this source is *very* expensive. It will also require a huge amount of deep “fracking”, in order to increase the surface area of heat flow into whatever fluid is used as the heat transporter. (Those nasty laws of physics at work again.) Storage is not a problem as the energy can be tapped as needed. Since it is converted to electrical energy, distribution is inexpensive, also. Due to the enormous expense, only certain “hot” regions can be exploited for the foreseeable future.
Nuclear fission (standard nuclear): The energy here was created by
ancient stars that went supernova and caused the rapid fusion of lighter elements into heavier elements. These elements were taken up in the accretion disk as the earth formed and became part of its crust. Nuclear (fission) reactors tap that original energy from these ancient stars. Some of the created “heavy” elements are fissile, i.e. can be made to give off their original energy (input by fusion) in a controlled way by breaking down into lighter elements (fission). From a “global environmental” impact, this is the energy of choice. It produces troublesome waste, but no emissions. The “energy density” of the fuel is many orders of magnitude greater even than fossil fuel. Production is “cheap” due to centralized economies of scale required, i.e. there is a minimum size to a practical, power-producing nuclear reactor. Since it becomes electrical energy, distribution is inexpensive. Storage is
not an issue as the energy can be tapped on demand.
Our economy has developed two main types of energy consumption. Mobile energy on demand (transportation) and non-mobile energy on demand (homes, businesses, factories.) The electrical “grid” is used for the latter and energy-dense hydrocarbon (fossil) fuels for the former. For our non-mobile energy needs: To keep production costs down, we have “evolved” a system of central point, large energy density, large economies of scale production of electrical energy. Large central power plants + the grid = relatively cheap energy on demand. Some facsimile of this is required to maintain an industrialized economy. It is a necessary (but not sufficient) requirement for a “first-world” economy and society. Any other more “distributed” power production always runs up against the laws of thermodynamics and will never be as reliable and efficient as centralized, large scale production. The obvious long term answer: Nuclear. There’s simply no getting around it. Hydrocarbon-poor countries (France, in particular) have chosen this path. It makes
obvious sense. Now, for our mobile energy needs: The convenient energy density of hydrocarbon fuels will continue to be exploited until production costs drive fuel costs too high. (Where this point is on the graph is open to debate.) Then, we will have to start migrating our mobile energy requirements over to our non-mobile energy sources (the grid) using electrical storage in transportation units (electric cars, trucks.) There are two problems to be addressed: Moving the enormous mobile energy requirements onto the non-mobile will require an *enormous* increase in non-mobile capacity (grid electricity production) to “fuel” the transportation sector. Since the majority of our non-mobile energy is still produced by hydrocarbon fuels at major power plants (68% in 2009), this is just “robbing Peter
to pay Paul.” It would be more efficient to leave the hydrocarbon
energy use where it is, rather than introduce an energy-loss via the two step process. UNLESS: We overhaul our non-mobile energy production to use something other than hydrocarbons. Scanning the list of what’s available, one can only come to the conclusion that nuclear energy is the only long term solution. The second problem to address is the “storage” of electrical energy in the vehicles. Since the energy density of the cheapest gasoline is 80-100 times greater than the best known secondary-storage battery technology (Silver-Zinc Oxide), a certain amount of inconvenience will be realized in the mobile energy arena. This is a political problem, as there is no way we will every get electrical energy storage (batteries) into the energy density range of hydrocarbons. Mean old laws of physics at work again.
Major speculation: I think that replaceable electrolyte batteries might pass muster. Instead of driving into a gas station and filling up, you drive into an “Electro Station” where the electrolyte in your battery is removed (for recycling) and
fresh electrolyte is put in. The used electrolyte can be recycled and recharged either by the station or at a central location (all privately owned and operated). The current mobile-energy distribution system is already in-place for this and our addiction to the automobile can continue unabated.
“What brand of electrolyte do you put in your car?
Are you always having to clean your cathodes? Have your anodes gotten corroded? Here at Zippy, we only use the finest hydroxides and stabilizers that will keep your cathodes clean and your anodes ready to go, always! Come in and get your battery refreshed, today!”
The 5.6 and other quakes near Sparks are miles and miles away from any horizontal drilling and fracing. The oil fields in Lincoln County are old from the 1950′s and 60′s and quite shallow 4500 ft or less and they are vertically drilled wells. The Oklahoma Geological Survey states there is a fault in that area. I researched many of the wells on the Oklahoma Corporation Commission oil well database to obtain this information. Horizontal drilling and fracing may have a role in quakes as in Arkansas but probably not these non-shale wells near Sparks.