That’s a question Nader asked on DemocracyNow the other night.
But first, a mea culpa from me to any staff -or themselves if they read the FDL montage- of Rep. Kucinich or Senator Sanders for the disparaging remarks I made in a post after Rep.Kucinich indicated he would vote yes.
I watched the interview of Kucinich and Nader last night and I’ve now read FFlambeau’s diary critiquing Kucinich. There’s a saying "if you want to run with the big dogs, be prepared to lift your leg high".
Simply stated, neither Sanders nor Kucinich have "legs" long enough to lift high. Sanders is constrained by the corrupt institute called the Senate, a millionaires club where longevity accounts for more than the capacity for critical reasoning. And Kucinich would have been relegated to a nonentity by the House leadership (Pelosi,and in particular Hoyer-an agent of a foreign power if there ever was one-, et al) And lost his chairmanship (Kucinich is the chairman of the Domestic Policy Subcommittee of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee. He is also a member of the Education and Labor Committee. ) AND would have been targeted by the AFL-CIO, who have already committed to targeting lawmakers who vote no on Obama’s healthcare bill.
As towards the ‘failed Presidency’ meme, AFAIC, it already IS a ‘failed Presidency’. Obama has taken the hopes of a nation and pissed on them as well as failing to take advantage of the political gravitas of his election based on the idea of change. Obama is a corporate whore- nothing more- (well demonstrated by "I tested and probed and talked to everybody, all the way down the chain of leadership, to see if there’s any way, and frankly, it’s mystifying, except to say that they’re keeping a for-profit system intact. There’s no air in here to try to find a way to get to a not-for-profit system (including the ERISA waiver so States wouldn’t have to deal with lawsuits from the insurance companies when they enact single payer for their States) and said so during his campaign:
"REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: I think that right after the swearing in of President Obama, there was a climate for transformational change. I think it’s still there. And I think the President could really be instrumental in bringing about just about any kind of change that he wants. For whatever reason, he decided to carefully construct a plan that would admit no chance for any real challenge to the market structure of private, for-profit insurance companies. And, you know, and he’s worked very tightly within that system. That’s a choice that he made. And during the campaign, you know, he made it very clear that he wasn’t for single payer. He made it very clear that he was looking at reforms within the context of the for-profit system. I mean, that’s a choice that he made. And, you know, it’s not the choice that I would have made, but he’s the president. And if his presidency is on the line, he made the choice for that. But at the same time, we have to look at the consequences of what happens if it fails."
Which leads to what I have been advocating for awhile now; kill the bill, make sure that Obama recognizes that the defeat is due to his insistence in supporting the idea of campaign contributions over the promotion of the general welfare for the populace(a Constitutional imperative), and give him the chance that Kucinich seems to think "is still there".
Back to the subject line. Well, you have 64.8% of the workforce working in Feb 2010 and those people-for the most part- aren’t angry but self interested consumers. There are ‘angry’ people out there that encompass all aspects of this society but are fragmented into ‘tea partiers’,'Progressives’(not the Congress critter type),’conservatives’,'liberals’,etc.
But all the anger is dissipated and fragmented to the point of being non-coherent. And the corporate mass media does nothing to inform the public. So what to do?
I don’t know. I do know that until the whole mindset of permanently being at war is ended, it will be a hard and arduous journey. Anyone else recognize that there has not been a ‘war on xxxx’ that has been successful since the end of WWII? And that if there is not truly meaningful reform of the financial services industry, the Democrats will be truly burnt toast.
What the participants of the FDL community can do is withhold any monetary support from anyone who considers their party allegiance higher than their movement allegiance. And if Jane would put a list together of ‘veal pen’ persons and organizations, we could do withhold any monetary support from them and educate others about the veal pen(ners) lack of intellectual honesty and willingness to have the U.S. run by corporations. We can repeatedly tell the DSCC and DCCC and the DLC,etc. that NO monies will be forthcoming until they put the peoples business above their own. We can dialogue with those we have disagreements with on some basic issues. Above all, we can keep fighting for that which we know to be the better solutions to the nations problems.
I mean,what does it say about our nation’s ‘leadership’ when they will not sacrifice their political lives while asking the populace to surrender their very existence for wars that do nothing to enhance our security or our national interests and to corporate interests so that campaign contributions keep flowing to those ‘leaders’?
And if anyone hasn’t seen/read the DemocracyNow interviews with Kucinich and Nader, please do so.
And if you think you can effectively rebut Nader, please do that in a diary.



20 Comments







Oh, yeah, one thing I forgot. The House has passed antitrust legislation regarding the insurance companies(repealing their exemption) and sent it to the Senate.
So what does anyone hear from a Senator or Obama about passing that? !
The House has passed a lot of bills in the past year. They’ve mostly been stuck in the bottle-neck that is the new Senate, the one that requires a super-majority for anything to happen.
Yeah, I’d like to see that. Given that he sounds like the very conscience and soul of Firedoglake in that interview. Ralph’s comments were a tour de force against this corporate pig of a health bill.
I think Jane should swallow her pride and have Ralph on for a live chat. At this point FDL’ers could use his insight and experience. And it wouldn’t hurt for him to hear from us.
I met Ralph once in Connecticut, I’m pretty sure I invited him on. I’m positive we did when he wrote his book. Hell, I invite everyone on.
As to veal pen orgs & withholding money: if that would work it would be a good idea, but most of the worst are getting foundation money, which is largely laundered corporate money.
Suddenly you start hearing how the Urban Institute/CAP/Kaiser has a study that dovetails perfectly with what some big corporation is trying to push through Congress. That’s the most damaging stuff. It’s endless and completely opaque.
Sorry should have read all the comments first.
Agreed but Jane has a beef with Ralph?
Oh, another thing I forgot:
go to http://www.singlepayeraction.org/ and join in.
We need to stop playing defense and start playing offense.
This tactic is the wrong one. Anger is essentially activated fear. It’s our fight or flight instinct to ensure survival, and it’s physically impossible to remain in that state. After all the years of Bush, fatigue has set in. It has been overused by both sides, and it can’t be used to fuel defensive activism indefinitely against a war against the working class and the environment that never ends. Defense never moves the ball forward.
Remember when moveon sponsored the betray us ad? I was motivated to donate to that because of the proactive, offensive nature of the attack.
We need to adapt some of the tools of our enemies they use against us, but make our enemies the target instead of using the same toots to activate the public (or us) for our own ends.
Assuming an aggressive, offensive pre-emptive attack position that causes fear in the bad guys until they fatigue. Pick them off one by one instead of taking them on as a block.
We need to brainstorm some creative outside the box ideas. We need the advantage that the enemy does not see us coming, and that the attack is pointed and not diffuse, to do the most damage.
The demoralized public would be inclined to get behind a positive pre-emptive charge with a renewed vigor if it’s showing some success.
One of the tools Jane Hamsher used that was very effective, was public polling. She used it to expose the pubic opinion and they attacked her personally as well as the polling organization.
She got a hold of the pointy tip of the spear and they reacted like she picked up a bazooka gun and pointed it at them.
Polls are the method the establishment uses to manufacture consent, or to selectively hide public opinion.
The MSM also does gate keeping duty. but polls put the lie to where the centrist position really is.
Another method we could employ is recording or taking pictures of our politicians and their contacts whenever possible, in effect, turning into a sunshine paparazzi. This is one form of pressure that doesn’t require a lot of money, just time.
We should do this to industry executives as a form of personal pressure. (Part of picking them off one at a time) Their exorbitant paychecks funded by taxpayer sponsored welfare programs should be have some sticks to go with those plates of carrots our legislators and presidents hand out so freely. Get them on camera being rude to a homeless person..etc.. Those big paychecks also give a sense of entitlement, and men also feel entitled to cheat especially when they are out of town… I’m just throwing this out there. Gov Spitzer knows all about this.
(I ran across a blog post of a guy that did this to Michelle Bauchman. She ended up filing against him in court because she felt like she was being stalked, although he only did this to her in public. One of his interesting pictures was a shirt she was wearing with a logo of Marianna Islands on it. This was around the same period that Abhramoff and the republicans were going on junkets there to visit their slave wage workhouses, and hiring underage girls as prostitutes. She was never implicated but she was involved.)
THE LIST.
The people that attacked Jane for the polling should go the veal pen list: Nate Silver and Dave Weigel.
The list of compromised should be categorized by type (group of individual(s)) and the following information recorded: employer, date, method(s) used, person(s) targeted, action targeted, and the activator (meat puppet master).
We could also build a browser script or website script that would underline or highlight their names and link them back to our page to keep us aware of who they are.
We should brainstorm our ideas.. Got any new ones?
I agree. And besides, the public is already angry.
“In fact, when it comes to Congress, many voters would like to start anew. Asked if they would “replace every single member of Congress, including your own representative” if they could, 50% said “yes” while 47% said “no.”
The voters who supported the clean-slate approach largely didn’t care much about whether the Democrats or Republicans ended up in the majority.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/03/16/wsjnbc-news-poll-throw-em-all-out/
Progressives need to loudly and repeatedly place a coherent economic policy at the center of thier movement. MSM and talk radio like to portray progressives as a hodge podge of special interests. Don’t let em…. come out with a good populist economic platform that helps everyone without segmenting the public into groups.
Attack the mental disorder known as neoliberal economics.
Attack the bank bailouts.
Push for real campaign finance reform.
You said it.
Blame the source of the Immigration” problem” on NAFTA and farm subsidies. Spread this message with simple graphics and show the relationship to Tea Partiers.
Write a sample bill emphasizing Fair trade – not Free trade. Isn’t that how lobbyists do it?
Neoliberal subsidies is socialism for the rich, after all, and not a free-market policy.
Yup, I agree completely.
And good point on NAFTA/immigration. Immigration wouldn’t be an issue if Mexico’s economy was healthy. And NAFTA along with IMF/bank enforced neoliberal economics are largely to blame for Mexico’s failed economy.
I think a solid case could be made that it’s both cheaper and more effective to just help fix Mexico’s economy rather than building hundreds of miles of border fences and endlessly chasing down illegals.
This could be a diary
Your right about going on the offense. Defense is a losing game against the Corporatist elite. They work daily to strip us of our rights and our livings. We shouldn’t at a min. be supporting their PR flunkies in Congress of either party.
I’d looove a list like that. I’d be writing those organizations and tweeting any of them who are on Twitter, too! And then there would be blog posts about them… (heh, heh)
I’ve already responded many times to email requests for money with my reasons for not making a donation, most recently to someone from Barbara Boxer’s office, which I concluded with a polite request to “get out of the damned bubble!”
The DNC and DSCC, DCCC, and DLC, I’ve written to ages ago, explaining my position on not making donations to them. But, I’d love to have another group to write to and about.
And I like shekissesfrogs’s ideas, especially “picking them off one by one,” and the “sunshine paparazzi.”
And I think we should brainstorm about how to use Twitter most effectively. Those short messages can have real impact. Of course, I only follow really smart people for the most part, and I block lots of potential followers, especially the online marketing types, who do nothing else. And porn.
There are ways to organize lists now, and we could use those for some of the lists mentioned above.
“Another method we could employ is recording or taking pictures of our politicians and their contacts whenever possible, in effect, turning into a sunshine paparazzi.”; shekisses and Karen: such is being done on singlepayeraction.com; “And I hope people will visit the videos that are on singlepayeraction.org to show how many of his colleagues react when they’re confronted with a reporter asking the question, “The majority of the American people, doctors and nurses want this system. They want free choice of doctor and hospital. They want the insurance companies displaced with full single payer. Why aren’t you for it?”
But much more IS desirable.
RE “This tactic is the wrong one” ; the title was taken from this interaction: “So the key question, Amy, is, how do we motivate the American people to start acting on what they already believe, that these are wars that are eating at the heart of America and damaging its status all over the world, and that we’ve got to bring those soldiers back home, and we’ve got to shut down these wars, because all they do is fuel the insurgencies, as General Casey and many others have said over the years? Our military occupation in Afghanistan is fueling the insurgency. It’s producing huge sectarian revenge animosities and killings, and it’s propping up a very corrupt government that is loathed by most of the people in Afghanistan. And all this on the back of the taxpayer, while we don’t have any money to fix the Americans’ public works and all the things that Dennis has talked about. How do you get the American people angry? That’s what your show should try to—to try to inquire in.”
RE “anger” Yes, it is destructive if you hold on to the emotion or repress it but if one takes the Sedona Method approach to it, it’s an ongoing source of energy.
As more people lose their homes and jobs the possibility of change is increases the chance of Obama causing the change decreases.
Obamarahma couldn’t care less and doesn’t have a clue even if they did. All this admin. has done so far seems to indicate they only really are interested in giving to the rich and dissing the rest of us. I bet you didn’t know you were voting for another GOper Pres. in 2008 did you?
Response to shekissesfrogs — Comment #4 — “We need to stop playing defense and start playing offense.”
Shekissesfrogs is absolutely right.
• Elected officials need to fear us. — They paid attention when Kennedy’s seat went to a teabagger. I was bummed at first, but I now think it was for the best.
• Elected officials fear losing their jobs. We must be willing replace democrats with republicans if need be. (And republicans need to be replaced by democrats.) VOTE AGAINST ALL INCUMBENTS. Democrats must not keep their offices just because we loathe Republicans. After all, is not Obama merely “Bush— part 2, the next generation?”
• Take a page from Carl Rove. Punish and Blackmail elected officials. They must live in fear. Remember Valerie Plame? Photograph their sex crimes, bribes and out drug addiction and homosexuality of their spouses and children. And remember, it’s not blackmail if you don’t keep it a secret.
• Do we have any photographers or friends in brothels of DC and Marietta Islands?
• Find creative ways to publicize these scandals. Protest with political theater, like perhaps the funeral and grave of the unknown soldier-congressman. One could even publish in Hustler magazine.
• And perhaps voting all incumbents out of office could unite us with the teaparty movement. Maybe we could unite on that limited issue. Any ideas?
• Vote for politicians with integrity even if they’re gonna lose, even if you disagree with them, (Ron Paul for example.)
• And if you don’t know the work of Tim Wise, check him out. He points out that the first thing progressive movements must do is eliminate from our own organizations racism, ageism, sexism, etc. We must unite classes, ethnicity_s, and the old and young. Including elevating and following the leadership of people from other ethnicity_s. Otherwise, we will be divided and conquered.
Digitalcurry…
My main issue is Single Payer Health Care (would be public financed elections, but that will never happen.)
Response to shekissesfrogs — Comment #4 — “We need to stop playing defense and start playing offense.”
Shekissesfrogs is absolutely right.
• Elected officials need to fear us. — They paid attention when Kennedy’s seat went to a teabagger. I was bummed at first, but I now think it was for the best.
• Elected officials fear losing their jobs. We must be willing replace democrats with republicans if need be. (And republicans need to be replaced by democrats.) VOTE AGAINST ALL INCUMBENTS. Democrats must not keep their offices just because we loathe Republicans. After all, is not Obama merely “Bush— part 2, the next generation?”
• Take a page from Carl Rove. Punish and Blackmail elected officials. They must live in fear. Remember Valerie Plame? Photograph their sex crimes, bribes and out drug addiction and homosexuality of their spouses and children. And remember, it’s not blackmail if you don’t keep it a secret.
• Do we have any photographers or friends in brothels of DC and Marietta Islands?
• Find creative ways to publicize these scandals. Protest with political theater, like perhaps the funeral and grave of the unknown soldier-congressman. One could even publish in Hustler magazine.
• And perhaps voting all incumbents out of office could unite us with the teaparty movement. Maybe we could unite on that limited issue. Any ideas? • Vote for politicians with integrity even if they’re gonna lose, even if you disagree with them, (Ron Paul for example.)
• And if you don’t know the work of Tim Wise, check him out. He points out that the first thing progressive movements must do is eliminate from our own organizations racism, ageism, sexism, etc. We must unite classes, ethnicity_s, and the old and young. Including elevating and following the leadership of people from other ethnicity_s. Otherwise, we will be divided and conquered.
Digitalcurry…
My main issue is Single Payer Health Care (would be public financed elections, but that will never happen.)