Jason Leopold has published an important article on Abu Zubaydah and the questions swirling around the destruction of the videotapes of his interrogation by the CIA. The Truthout reporter writes that a number of intelligence sources have described a hitherto unreported second taping system that was used on Zubaydah at the black site CIA prison in Thailand where the interrogations took place in 2002-2003.
Reportedly, this second set of tapes appear to have been used to collect "’data’ about Zubaydah, specifically, how much mental and physical pain he could endure after each torture session he was subjected to that took place prior to the issuance of OLC legal memos in August 2002." This data was then used to shape the parameters of the torture program and the types of legal approval John Yoo, Jay Bybee and Steven Bradbury gave in those legal memos.
It is unknown if the purported second taping system was used on other CIA prisoners at the Thailand black site, but Leopold’s article also reports, in another important angle on the scandal, "that a similar taping system was also set up at a secret site at Guantanamo about a year later where interrogations of other high-value prisoners were also recorded." Last January, Scott Horton at Harper’s published a major expose concerning the possible killings of three prisoners in 2006 at a hitherto unrevealed secret site at Guantanamo unofficially known as Camp No. The prisoners had previously been labeled "suicides" by camp officials.
The issue of the tapes disposal has been under criminal investigation for many months by Special Prosecutor John Durham. Last August, Attorney General Holder also picked Mr. Durham to lead an inquiry into the abuse of prisoners subjected to the CIA’s interrogation program.
The investigation into the destruction of the tapes has included grand jury testimony by some CIA principals and a grant of immunity to CIA attorney John McPherson, who, according to the Washington Post, "reviewed the tapes years before they were destroyed to determine whether they diverged from written records about the interrogations."
Leopold is now reporting that the Senate Intelligence Committee has decided to look into the situation surrounding Abu Zubaydah’s CIA interrogation:
The panel will scrutinize thousands of pages of highly classified documents related to Zubaydah’s detention and torture to determine, among other things, whether the techniques he was subjected to [were] accurately reflected in CIA cable traffic sent back to Langley, whether he ever provided actionable intelligence to his torturers, and how the CIA and other government agencies came to rely on flawed intelligence that led the Bush administration to classify him as the No. 3 person in al-Qaeda and its first high-value detainee, Hill sources said.
As was reported in May 2009, FBI interrogator Ali Soufan, who was one of the early interrogators of Mr. Zubaydah, in his prepared statement to the Senate Armed Services Committee investigating prisoner abuse, mentioned the experimental nature of the CIA’s interrogation methods no less than four times. Mr. Zubaydah himself told the International Committee of the Red Cross that he heard or he suspected the CIA was experimenting with torture techniques upon him. I reported at the time:
It seems likely that Abu Zubaydah was a primary subject of JPRA/SERE’s reverse-engineering of torture techniques, using the paradigm of psychologist and former American Psychological Association president Martin Seligman’s theory of "learned helplessness."
According to a report last month by Mr. Leopold, a national security official said that Abu Zubaydah was used as an "experiment. A guinea pig." News of a second taping system, used to gather specific kinds of psychological or psychiatric data on the CIA’s interrogation subject(s), appear at the same time as revelations stemming from a release of CIA documents to the ACLU that describe CIA officials asking for "instructions" regarding the "disposition of hard drives and magnetic media" associated with the torture of Abu Zubaydah. Marcy Wheeler has been following a number of issues associated with the release of these documents at her Emptywheel blog.



22 Comments




I see Jason posted a comment in one of Emptywheel’s blog posts regarding the fact that he is the only one out there at this time with this story. He writes:
I also see that Stephen Soldz, who has also written for a long time on the issue of the APA, torture, and the activities of CIA and some military psychologists in helping form Bush’s torture program, has also written an article sending up Leopold’s piece at OpEd News.
It would be nice if could place any confidence in the Senate Intelligence Committee actually pursuing this in an aggressive way, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
I find it significant that the SIC found it necessary to take up the issue. Of course, they could have done that to bury it. But I do believe there are people on that committee, and within government as a whole, who are truly shocked by what has occurred.
In reviewing the signing statements of George W. Bush over the years, I see that Congress tried year after year to put some oversight controls on the Bush administration, their special access programs, and their interrogation/torture programs, but they were defeated year after year by executive fiat. The problem was with legislative fetishism, as if only trying to pass laws were the way to deal with this problem. Congressmen and Senators are obsessed with getting re-elected, and under the political climate, were too afraid to mobilize their constituents to exert the necessary political pressure.
We can’t rely on Congress, at least alone, at this point, and must exert maximum pressure in the form of letters, petitions, protests, union resolutions, etc., to make it clear that barbaric torture is unacceptable, and those who did it need to be brought before the bar of justice for crimes against humanity.
jeff k
i don’t know if you’ve ever been a journalist but your writing here is exceptionally clear and helpfully sequential.
i had a prof once, one of those one-of-a-kind types, who was fond of repeating to us that academics never seem to appreciate the value of synthesizing what others have done and how their work fits together,
as opposed to focusing on one ‘s current topic of intetest.
for an on-looker like me this summary is crystal clear and because so, very informative.
Jeff, thanks so, so much for spotlighting my report. I really appreciate it and your own insight into the story is really valuable, particularly your post from May 2008, which you linked to in the story.
I left that comment, btw, because the previous commenter had said “it was established” about the second taping system and wanted to point out that the documents released last week did not make that point. But as I noted elsewhere in the comment, this is a story I have been working on since last year and it recently picked up again a few weeks ago–before this latest document dump.
Jeff,
Anyone know what the location of this site was/is?
NKP, Udorn, Ubon ?
Have I told you lately that you, Jason, Marcy, Jim W., Jane, and the unfogettable Reddhead are true American heroes?
My respect for your dogged pursuit of justice and human dignity knows no bounds.
Ditto.
Bmaz has a fresh cross-post already in progress: A Concurrence In The Case Against Elena Kagan
Thanks for the clarification.
Also, to orionATL, and others, thanks for your kind words.
To librty @7, I of course don’t know the location of the site within Thailand. The Wikipedia page on black sites notes the possibility one such site was at the VOA relay station at Udorn. The New York Times reported the existence of a black site outside Bangkok called “Cat’s Eye” (name later changed for racial/ethnic insensitivity). This was before Dusty Foggo got his contract to build a bunch more black site prisons. Something tells me we haven’t heard the last of these, either, shut down (ostensibly) or no.
“By now, it’s believed that most of the relevant White House and RNC system emails have been destroyed. But that’s where Mike Connell’s operation comes into focus, since it’s come to light that when he met with then Cybrinth CEO, Stephen Spoonamore, on October 11, 2006 for consultation on data destruction technology (Spoonamore’s expertise to protect electronic transactions).
GovTech Solutions was first engaged for web service provision to the House Judiciary Committee at the end of 2005 which is significant because of its responsibility to oversee the Department of Justice.
Now, back to the White House from whose employment as Internet and E-Communications Director David Almacy departed in March 2007 after two years. Before entering government employment, Almacy had worked for TechCentralStation.com and GovTech Solutions (of which both had ownership interests held by DCI Group CEO Tom Synhorst). Just before leaving, in a March 1st “Ask the White House” online chat session, Almacy described recently having completed “the largest redesign of a White House website in our nation’s history”.
This makeover occurred during the time frame in which his former boss, Mike Connell was actively seeking consultation with Spoonamore on destructive techniques for White House email that has since been declared “missing in action”.
(Excerpt, 9/29/08,”Will Mike Connell Testify on Cyber Rigging?” Spinell and Luaptifer,epluribusmedia)
NOTE: This article was published shortly before IT wunderkind Connell met an untimely death in the crash of the plane he was piloting.Although your thread deals primarily with destruction of video taping,I thought that the info related in the excerpted piece merited inclusion into this discusssion.
Will Mike Connell Avoid Testifying on Cyber Rigging?Columbus, Ohio: With 36 days left before Election Day 2008, attorneys representing Mike Connell, a so-called guru of GOP information technology who has been …
thejournal.epluribusmedia.net/…/176-bush-mccain-computer-expert-may-avoid-testifying-on-cyber-rigging-of-2004-election-until-after-nove… – Cached
Yes, whatever happened to that missing e-mail story? I believe a million or more of them were later “found”? If you have a link to a good recent story that summarizes the situation as it is today, I’d appreciate you posting it here. Thanks.
Plame Investigation and Missing Emails: Analysis on Emails …Jan 21, 2008 … GovTech Solutions has once again demonstrated why it?s the …… MZM and Mitchell Wade were later linked to the USAG firing of Carol Lam. …
emptywheel.firedoglake.com/…/plame-investigation-and-missing-emails-analysis-on-emails/ – Cached
NOTE: The comments #152,#215,and #217-all by ROTL- discuss some very interesting info re: parallel systems of IT communication,including videos, involving MZM (Foggo and Cunningham’s pal) .And the coincidence that Carol Lam was one of the fired federal attorneys,who just happened to be investigating Wilkes,Foggo and Cunningham is TOO much of a coinkydink.
Definitely worth a look.
Thanks,ROTL-Reader of Tea Leaves
I think there is a lot in the doc dump to lend support to the theory that there was additional, if not necessarily strictly parallel, taping.
For example, on p 40 of 122 of one of the dumps there is a cable on destruction of magnetic media that says (among other things)
“PLEASE NOTE THAT THE INVENTORY LIST SHOULD ONLY CONTAIN LISTING OF MAGNETIC MEDIA FROM [REDACTED] PROJECT. AND NOT/NOT THE VIDEOTAPES IN [REDACTED] POSSESSION.”
There are lots of references to the tapes to be destroyed with a redaction right in front of the word tapes, as if they are being given a describer to keep them from being confused with other tapes. There are also several references that, imo, point to someone like the contractor psychologists having their own set of tape. Not enough time to go through all the various items, but if you run through the emails and cables I think you’ll get that perception as well, esp with destruction of magnetic media cable.
As a disclamier,I will at the outset of my comment ,unequivocally state that much of the history of these issues was discussed here for many years before I obtained access to the Internet. I have much to catch up on,and I sincerely thank those who are light years ahead of me for their extensive body of knowledge and yeomans’ work -as evidenced in the archives here.
And not to push the patience of the kind folks here,but I would like to make an observation.
As a neophyte in these matters, I am nonetheless struck by the events in the EW Torture Timeline when compared to the early timeline in the Plame investigation.
For example, on February 26, 2002 Joe Wilson was sent to Niger. Wilson,upo his return, is debriefed on March 5,2002 and states there is no support to the theory that Hussein is in the market for enriched uranium.
Later that same month, Mitchell closes his CONSULTING firm,in North Carolina-Knowledge Works,on March 29,2002 .Just two days later, on March 31,2002 Abu Zabaydah is flown out to Thailand.
Now, if one clicks on to EW’s Torture Timeline ,the early events re:Torture-prior to,and just after, Wilson’s report are very interesting,imho.
Has anyone access to a composite of the torture timeline coordinated with the timeline of events in the Plame investigation?
Later that same month,on March 29,2002 Mitchell closes his CONSULTING firm,in North Carolina-Knowledge Works.
Two days later, on March 31,2002 Abu Zabaydah is flown to Thailand.
Shortly after Zubaydah is transferred to Thailand,Cofer(Flies on their eyeballs) Black of the CIA is “reassigned”. He later went to work for Blackwater at their firm named TIA.
May 17, 2002: CIA Counterterrorism Head Fired for Criticizing Failure to Capture Bin Laden
It is announced that Cofer Black, head of the CIA’s counterterrorism division for the last three years, has been assigned to another position.
Black then spoke on deep background to the Washington Post, and on April 17, 2002, the Post called the failure to capture bin Laden “the gravest error in the war against al-Qaeda.”(see April 17, 2002) Rumsfeld learned about Black’s role and used his influence to get him removed. [United Press International, 7/29/2004]
History Commons
I think this is an astute observation. Certainly if the goal of the torture were to produce false confessions for the purpose of falsified links between AQ and S. Hussein, then the timing is very interesting. I think others had pointed out the timing of Mitchell’s leaving and the AQ interrogation.
I would assume anyone seriously working on this material would appreciate any observation anyone might have. Things get forgotten or mistaken. There’s been a hell of a lot of info that’s come out in the past eight years (yes, even the first info on the torture started getting reported in early 2002, maybe even very late 2001).
Your idea of a composite Plame/torture timeline is also worth considering. I’d wondered about it myself, but never had time to sit down and try and construct it. If you can post a comment here, you can start your own blog (via Google or whatever) and put up contributions such as a composite timeline which you can then link to, and it becomes a resource for the entire community.
Think about it. We need all the help we can get.
I think we should presume that we do not know for sure why Cofer Black left CTC. We know there’s one story, and maybe it’s correct. But with the Agency, never presume upon one or two sources.
Thanks for your input, Jeff.
Re:Cofer Black’s departure from CTC.
I have read several varying versions,but for purposes of brevity , I chose the History Commons entry-and I seriously edited that one to focus primarily on the timeline itself.