According to the transcript (PDF) of a February 19, 2002 meeting of the Armed Forces Epidemiological Board (AFEB), “[a] number of the detainees have died of the wounds that they arrived with” at Guantanamo. This statement came from Captain Alan “Jeff” Yund, a preventive medicine doctor and the Navy’s liaison officer to the AFEB, as he discussed “mortuary affairs” at Guantanamo, part of a larger discussion on health issues at the new prison facility.
During the meeting, Captain Yund identified himself as working directly with Admiral Steven Hart, the Director of Navy Medicine Research and Development, as well as “a number of other admirals.”
Yund’s full quote is as follows, on pg. 108 of the transcript (bold added):
Mortuary affairs is an important but hopefully small aspect of the activities of the [Guantanamo] hospital. A number of the detainees have died of the wounds that they arrived with. So there’s attention being paid to doing the things with the body that would be appropriate for their culture.
In a December 7 email interview with Captain Yund, who is now retired, Yund stated he does “not recall that I was ever very directly involved in detainee health issues” at Guantanamo. Accordingly, he said the following in regards to his statement about detainee deaths:
“I did not make that statement from personal or direct knowledge. It may have come from CAPT Shimkus’ presentation, or possibly from conversations or meetings with other Navy Preventive Medicine personnel colleagues. It is not the type of statement I would have made without having learned it from a source I considered reliable.”
The reference to “CAPT Shimkus” is to Captain Albert J. Shimkus, commanding officer of the U.S. Naval Hospital at Guantanamo at the time, and JTF 160 chief surgeon. Captain Lund explained that he remembered hearing a “a detailed and fascinating account” of “events and issues” at Guantanamo, though he couldn’t remember the date or place. This is the “presentation” to which Captain Yund refers in his explanation above.
In a telephone interview on December 13 with Captain Shimkus, who now is an Associate Professor in National Security Decision Making at the U.S. Naval War College, Shimkus expressed shock over the claims there were any deaths at Guantanamo while he was there. (Captain Shimkus left Guantanamo in August 2003.) He said that “no deaths occurred” while he was there, but that he did speak at the time of the task force preparing for possible deaths. He could not offer any explanation for what Captain Yund reported.
In the AFEB transcript itself, there is no surprise or other comment or correction made on on Yund’s announcement concerning detainee deaths. The meeting was also attended by other military medical staff, civilian medical advisers, and upper-levels of the DoD bureaucracy, including Admiral Hart, and Assistant Secretary of Defense for Force Health Protection and Readiness, Dr. William Winkenwerder, and his deputy, Ellen Embrey. The meeting, held at the Island Club, North Island Naval Air Station, San Diego, was chaired by Dr. Steven Ostroff from the Centers for Disease Control.
By all accounts, in the initial days of prisoner transfer to Guantanamo, a number of detainees arrived with serious battle wounds. Notes from a doctor working at the facility, dated February 22, 2002, which I reviewed, discuss the previous day’s cardio-thoracic and neurosurgeries. A thoracotomy (excision of a portion of a lung) was said to have been performed on detainee “205.” The same day’s notes also describe an incident in which a detainee was handcuffed via a broken arm.
In response to my initial inquiry on 2002 detainee deaths at Guantanamo, Major Bradsher replied fully as follows:
The first detainee death at Guantanamo Bay was in June 2006. The [June 16] press
release is below:
http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=9656
The press release refers to the “three detainees who died of apparent suicides on June 10, 2006,” and is a summary of the disposition of the remains.
After receiving this first communication from DoD’s press operations office, I asked for further clarification, and in particular “as to why a Captain at an Armed Forces Epidemiological Board meeting in Feb. 2002 would refer to earlier deaths at Guantanamo, ostensibly from battlefield wounds.”
Major Bradsher responded, “I can’t speak for Captain Yund. As I have stated before, the first detainee fatality in Guantanamo was in June 2006.”
At this point, what we have is a mystery. There are no other reports regarding early battlefield deaths among the prisoners rendered to Guantanamo. We know that some of them arrived on litters, and needed immediate medical attention. We know that officials there even expected some deaths. But DoD maintains that no deaths prior to June 2006 occurred, and the principal reporter to the AFEB meeting on this subject, Captain Yund, does not remember the statement, though he notes “it is not the type of statement I would have made without having learned it from a source I considered reliable.”
Dr. Steven Miles, author of Oath Betrayed: Torture, Medical Complicity, and the War on Terror, shared his reaction to news of the possible deaths reported here:
This is an enormously important event. I have tried, without success to have the DoD or the media, clarify the huge inconsistencies in prisoner death reporting to no avail. My article on this remains unpublished by the medical media and by Slate etc.
The uncertainty over what really occurred in the early days at Guantanamo was accentuated by recent revelations by Truthout.org and Seton Hall University of Law’s Center for Policy and Research on the mass administration of the drug mefloquine to detainees who arrived at Guantanamo. Ostensibly described as an antimalarial measure, there are numerous reasons to question its use, not least because of its well-known high rates of neuro-psychiatric side effects, and also because such mass empiric treatment of mefloquine has never occurred and experts found such use potentially harmful and without medical justification.
Truthout has promised further investigation into the mefloquine scandal, including interviews with some of the principles involved, in a report to be published in the coming week.
There is a tremendous need for Congressional and/or independent investigations that have full mandate and subpoena power to ferret out the truth about what has occurred at Guantanamo and other U.S. “war on terror” prisons. The biggest obstacle to this, besides the Pentagon and the GOP, is the Democratic Party leadership itself, which refuses to undertake or fund such investigations, and whose leader in the White House, President Barack Obama, opposes — against treaty obligations described in Article 12 of the Convention Against Torture — such investigations.



82 Comments

recommended and tweeted.. thank you
“The biggest obstacle to this . . . ”
Not to sound pessimistic, but the biggest obstacle to any genuine investigations is that Dems and Repubs are all in the same boat together, Obama especially. They’re all to busy targeting layers with Gitmo clients, Miranda, and any sort of closure for illegal prisons. I do believe there’s been some horsetrading with Lieberman, NDAA and DADT among other things and check out the perks in the Defense bill:
H.R.5136 — National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 (Placed on Calendar Senate – PCS)
See sections:
SEC. 1032. PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF FUNDS FOR THE TRANSFER OR
RELEASE OF INDIVIDUALS DETAINED AT UNITED STATES NAVAL STATION,
GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA.
SEC. 1037. INSPECTOR GENERAL INVESTIGATION OF THE CONDUCT AND
PRACTICES OF LAWYERS REPRESENTING INDIVIDUALS DETAINED AT NAVAL
STATION, GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA.
SEC. 1038. PROHIBITION ON USE OF FUNDS TO GIVE MIRANDA WARNINGS TO AL QAEDA TERRORISTS. (Al Quaeda “terrorists” could mean Buffy the Vampire slayer watchers for all I know. I’m pretty sure it’s a loose term.)
–And look! Something for Lieberman!:
Sec. 3554. Federal Cybersecurity Practice Boards.
—and keep reading.
Link: loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111%3AH.R.5136.PCS%3A
The IG investigation re lawyers representing detainees was certainly another stab at sabotaging the democratic process, and making the torture state secure from any legal oversight. I’m not sure what the fate of that provision was, and perhaps a commenter can update us.
A Scott Horton article earlier this year talked about the attacks on the attorneys in general, and the need for learning the truth about Gitmo, as I’ve mentioned already in the article above.
Well, Jeff. Looks like they’re trying to codify those attacks in this upcoming H.R.5136 — National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 (Placed on Calendar Senate – PCS). I tried to post a link to Thomas Loc.gov, but it never works with a search result.
This is terrible, because lawyers already have other reasons for not wanting to represent Gitmo clients, even when they would like to represent a Gitmo client. I hear “security clearance” is one complaint. So basically they are scaring lawyers away from representing innocents like Latif, the mentally ill Yemeni who probably wouldn’t pass an EMT test (What’s the year, last 3 presidents, etc.) never mind a terrorist training camp. Latif may have a very good lawyer already, but the overall oppressive factor of targeting Gitmo lawyers is dreadful I think.
I think DC circuit court has failed to let the lawyers address their grievances.
This is all going in the wrong direction and very very fast. I’m not happy with Obama. Not at all. And it’s not just the Cheney cabal that’s doing it this time.
Good post, by the way. I think Yund et al must be lying.
They kept prisoners with critical injuries untreated as torture. I think 15 year old Omar Khadr experienced that. So did others.
The psycho-f*cked up drugs are new to me.
& as for the “suicides”?
It could have been predicted that Dick Cheney would become preoccupied with this in his “retirement.” It is necessary for the perps of 9/11 to be continuously on the attack, to cut off all opportunities for discovery at the remotest points, so that all persons approaching discovery are cut down and silenced.
The “terrorist” detainment and torture system was set up solely as a diversion to eliminate any public questioning of the official 9/11 story line . The more brutal the methods of treating the scapegoats, the better protected from the truth were the actual perps.
Assange has something about all this in his files, as can evidenced by the esclataion of the threats against his person and his organization. All the dirt will come out. Whether or not Assange is alive when the dirt does come out remains to be seen.
Or maybe since Bagram is the entrance from one hell hole to another, camp administrators can always blame deaths on each other. Just guessing. The whole thing sickens me.
And I wish our governemnt would let the victims and us heal as a nation by applying justice, instead of actively making this stuff fester.
I don’t buy that torture camps were set up as a deterrent from 9/11 inquiries. Usually torture is a kind of terrorism that bullies the public, and in this case is targeted at the Muslims.
The suicides?
Whatever did happen to the testimony of Hickman and Davila? Did President Trojan condom manage to crush that investigation as well?
Usually torture is a kind of terrorism that bullies the public
That is precisely the claim I am making. The public was “bullied” from questioning the official story. The Muslims were demonized to provide the rationale for starting the wars in the strategically important Afghanistan and Iraq.
The nation is never going to heal until it learns and accepts that its own government engaged in an attack on the American people for the dual purposes of setting up a police state at home and an imperialist mission abroad.
Lawyers reminds me. You can sign a petition on behalf of Fayiz al-Kandari and his lawyer Barry Wingard.
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2010/12/01/please-sign-petition-asking-eric-holder-to-release-fayiz-al-kandari-a-kuwaiti-aid-worker-in-guantanamo/
“On behalf of Fayiz, thanks to everyone who has signed, we need all the help we can get. The petition is free and means a lot to a guy who sometimes feels the world has forgotten him as he starts his tenth year in a cage without charge.
We will win, our only job is to make sooner rather than later for Fayiz. I will pass this on to him next week in GTMO.”
In fact, please sign.
Things are not looking good. His lawyer thinks this will make a difference.
Well yes, there are systemic illnesses and festering sores. At least we can try and move in the right direction.
I think they’re pretty busy trying not to release any other potential witnesses to those so-called suicides, if you want my honest opinion.
Okay so we both believe the public and specifically muslims are being bullied, but maybe for different reasons. I sometimes think it’s systemic and there’s no clear rationale for anything except protecting a system that basically sucks.
There was no further investigation into the 2006 “suicides”, as the Harper’s story reported, noting how the Obama administration scotched that.
There was a hike in suicides in Guantanamo in the first few years, which we noted in the original Truthout story, such that DoD stopped reporting suicide attempts by Sept. 2002.
I have heard though the grapevine that we will hear more about Guantanamo via Wikileaks, and I hope it comes soon.
One additional reason for scapegoating those of the Muslim faith. It plays perfectly into the hands of our cherished partner Israel.
Check the link. The title says it all.
There is no healing of festering sores while living in an “Alice in Wonderland” state of denial about our immediate past. There are criminals in our midst. Unless they are called out for their crimes and made to face the ignominy of a day in court, they will continue to propagate mayhem.
Agreed. Important. I highlighted this as a story last month, though readers should follow mui1′s link to Andy Worthington’s story, as that’s also what I relied on in my write-up.
The recent notice to the treatment of Bradley Manning reminds me that these governmental oppressions are wide-spread and unrelenting.
At a dinner party the other day I made the point to the assembled that Obama is a torture president as much as Bush… the Bagram black sites, Gitmo, Appendix M, the various isolation regimes for Manning, the proposals for indefinite detention, the show trials (Khadr), the backing of torture states (India, Iraq, Egypt, etc.) No one tried to defend Obama. They squirmed, some of them, but no one could argue against this truly inconvenient (for Democrats and/or Obama supporters) and terrible fact.
“Usually torture is a kind of terrorism that bullies the public, and in this case is targeted at the Muslims.”
There’s more to torture than that. It is also about forcing changes to a culture by selecting out the resistant and, in general, either damaging them into compliance or killing them. The US government has been conducting these types of programs for some time here and abroad. See here for some fairly contemporary examples inside the US (link: http://my.firedoglake.com/mzchief/2010/12/17/an-appeal-to-mr-flynt-regarding-bradley-manning/#comment-265784 ) and we haven’t event talked about what’s going on inside the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) (link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Mariana_Islands#Political_status ).
Back to the truthout story on pharma waterboarding:
this stands out:
“A formal policy memo in February 2009 from Army Surgeon General Eric Schoomaker removed mefloquine as a “first-line” agent, and changed the policy so that mefloquine would not be prescribed to Army personnel unless they had contraindications to the preferred drug, the antibiotic doxycycline. Nor could mefloquine be prescribed to any personnel with a history of traumatic brain injury or mental illness.”
There’s at least one prisoner like that:
“http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2010/08/02/judge-orders-release-from-guantanamo-of-mentally-ill-yemeni-2nd-judge-approves-detention-of-minor-taliban-recruit/
& it could make those psych evaluations from Dr. Evil on Omar Khadr look even more like pure diabolical hypocrisy.
I thought there were 3 “suicides” reported. Or wait we’re talking “attempted suicides.” Okay. I’m looking at truthout article again. There’s a lot to take in.
But they’re not selecting out “the resistant.” The ones at Gitmo were pretty much randomly selected, students, patients, charity workers, 15 year olds, grandpas, refugees from China. That’s not “resistant.” That’s picking on the vulnerable and then making it look like a grand justice show.
Thank you and most importantly we need signatures.
Yeah, well lets try to get a few hostages out of hock then, Okay?
The Trojan condom signed his blood pact with Cheney on his way into the Oval Office. He is permanently stained with that blood, meaning he is beyond redemption. He is only able to continue on that reckless path until he is stopped by a stronger force. What that will be, we’ll just have to wait and see.
Okay, I picture squirming in black tie and evening dress and part of me has to laugh at the visuals.
I’m a regular poster at RawStory. I’ll post it in a couple of the prominent threads there.
I hope so too.
Thank you. So you do have a little idealism after all? Maybe?
Sorry to be so random commenting on this post, the pharma truthout story & etc. It’s like there’s nothing and then there’s a gush of information, and it’s hard to keep to one story.
I wonder what wikileaks has. So far it’s been suppression of Spanish prosecution, horse trading among “allies” on prisoners cleared for release. And I probably missd something.
The Obama administration seems to be scotching every investigation regarding Gitmo. Unless it involves client attorney privilege. Then they’re okay with “investigating” in the name of screwing basic rights.
Your theory is too parochial, as it does not explain the general rise in torture world-wide, or why the U.S. would support torture in other countries, or, for that matter, why the U.S. has shown tremendous interest in torture and training torturers abroad for lo these past sixty years.
This does not negate the fact that the blatant apology and defense of torture by domestic politicians does tend to oppress movements for greater inquiry and exposure in general. The fact that much of the official 9/11 investigation relied on tortured information is in and of itself outrageous.
I think a agree with the jist of what you’re saying. Obama’s probably beyond redemption as a president.
I think the systemic part is rise in corporate fascism. Mussolini-esque? Free trade doctrine, etc. etc. They are bullying and targeting those who would oppose, e.g. labor. Also remember churches were used organizationally to protest Jim Crow. And so many were firebombed during the civil rights era. So many were made “examples” of, e.g. killed, murdered, lynched. I can’t help but think there are parallels with mosques being targeted. I’m sure there are terrorist Muslims around as there are terrorist Christians, but I think in general mosques tend to organize charity etc. etc. and like churches, labor, unions can provide organizational support to the community. Hence targeting and spurious claims of terrorism when there’s no terrorism. They scare clergy away from politics and organizational support. That may be the target.
But who knows, I agree with you in part.
‘The People’s Republic of China (PRC) officially recognizes 55 ethnic minority groups within China in addition to the Han majority. [..] “Undistinguished” ethnic groups are ethnic groups that have not been officially recognized or classified by the central government. The group numbers more than 730,000 people, and would constitute the twentieth most populous ethnic group of China if taken as a single group. The vast majority of this group is found in Guizhou Province.
These “undistinguished ethnic groups” do not include groups that have been controversially classified into existing groups. For example, the Mosuo are officially classified as Naxi, and the Chuanqing are classified as Han Chinese, but they reject these classifications and view themselves as separate ethnic groups.
Citizens of mainland China who are of foreign origin are classified using yet another separate label: “foreigners naturalized into the Chinese citizenship” (外国人入中国籍). However, if there is a newly naturalized citizen who already belongs to a recognized existing group among the 56 ethnic groups (e.g. Han Chinese, Korean, Russian, Gin, Kazakh, etc.), then he or she is classified into that ethnic group rather than the special label.’
(excerpt from “Ethnic minorities in China,” link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China )
The Uyghurs are a specific, still-intact cultural group (some background, link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people ) targeted by the Chinese government under the system of “assimilation” started by Mao (citation: “Moving The Mountain” [trailer, link: http://www.xingufilms.com/films/films-weve-made/moving-the-mountain ]). A great film that documents this aspect of the system of Mao which resulted in the torture and killing of millions of people is “Fire on the Mountain” (link: video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4749156257249602834 ). When reviewing the film, look at it carefully as the various participants share their stories of torture, imprisonment and death. Notice who they are and from what areas. The same program was run by the former Soviet Union so there is an overlap.
Also, by June 2009, we found out that under the Bush 43 Administration that Chinese government officials were allowed to go to Guantanamo and have direct access to the torture proceedings of the Uyghurs:
“While at the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba in 2002, Uighur detainees were interrogated, abused and threatened by a delegation from the People’s Republic of China, recently liberated Uighurs told the Huffington Post in a phone interview from Bermuda.” (excerpt from “Uighurs: U.S. Let Chinese Abuse Us At Gitmo” by Ryan Grim, June 16, 2009, link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/16/uighurs-us-let-chinese-ab_n_216332.html ).
What else did the US and Chinese government plan and cooperate on?
The whole world has pretty much caved into China on the question of the Uighurs. China’s influence has expanded, especially in the region, but in the rest of the world as well. So simple refugees from xinjiang are called “terrorists” by our state dept. Even the Taliban in Afghanistan supposedly had some deal with China re: “repatriation” of Uighur refugees. That agreement on Uighurs came out of a deal Colin Powells state dept. to gain China’s UN support for war I believe. So . . .
Sorry, Mzchief, there’s a live afghans for peace powow. It’s very interesting. and sad.
http://www.livestream.com/afghansforpeace
Basically the U.S. stirred up hornets’ nests in Afghanistan , because China, India etc. have their own agendas and insecurities. There are many reasons why Mainland China is so oppressive with Tibet and Xinjiang. I think none of it has to do with real terrorism a la Al Quaeda. Remember the Mainland Chinese have called the Dalai Lama a terrorist, when in fact he’s not.
Oh before I go back to afghans for peace, mzchief, (it seems I cut myself off), I suggest this post from China Digital: http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2009/07/blogger-xinjiang-people-sorry-and-thank-you/
You can see what some of the issues might be.
Strange how Afghanistan is more critical and yet many of there concerns parallel ours with our gov. Oh wait ! that’s because . . .
http://www.livestream.com/afghansforpeace
If you’re still there and want to listen, read and multitask. I recommend it.
Recc’d, thank you Jeff.
Torture/ Murder/ Treason
A circle in a circle, a wheel within a wheel.
Wasn’t there a camp no inside but apart from Gitmo.
The war criminals we employ are going further and further up to and including ” accidental’ deaths.
These are fancy ribboned word games these war criminal are playing but the noose is tightening and they feel exposure closing in. The reason everybody is torturing is simple, we boast that it worked against all evidence and other oppressive governments just ran with it .
There are those who love to torture among us.
I have signed.
Trojan condom pointed out in his biography that he is malleable – imprintable with any ideals that people may wish to imprint upon him. Ergo: He got Dickprinted.
For some reason, the link you provide, mui1, is not accessible.
However, al-Kandari and Wingard, both whom I regard very highly, deserve broader support and broader understanding … and the people of America, of the United States need to engage in this support and understanding, as the humanity of this nation is, without question, on the line …
DW
Your excellent comment, mzchief, about cultural “change” applies equally, as you say, to the cultural “shift” this nation, ourf nation, is undergoing, specifically, what it will tolerate and condone, in terms of fundamental injustice and inhumanity.
DW
Again, Jeff, my heartfelt appreciation as you deliniate the perfidity and treason so fashionably in full-bloom these dark and dismal days …
You bring consistent light and humanity to this sad gathering of those who care deeply and comment, with compassion and grace, as well as anger and disgust, upon the moral poverty of our times.
From the sensibilities here expressed one can discern what the world we shall build, together, will look like and, most importantly, what that world will “feel” like.
Despite the “looking forward” crew’s vicious arrogance, it is the people who gather here who clearly see the future, for thery are possessed of reason, tolerance, and understanding … and defining a better world through their actions, courage, and humanity.
Thank you, all.
DW
Another informative article on this disturbing topic. Thanks Jeff.
I wonder if the next (Republican) president will “look forward, not back” when it comes to Obama’s crimes? Something tells me no.
Another broken promise by President Shameful. On top of that we are gonig to borrow another $160 billion dollars from the Chinese and Saudi dictatorship in 2011 to fight the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. (The real reason they won’t close Gitmo.) Not only can’t we afford to lose one more American life fighting the illegal and unwinnable war in Afghanistan, but we can not afford to add another $160 billion dollars to our already too large debt. Anyone who supports the war in Afghanistan, including the soldiers on the ground fighting it, can’t offer us one valid reason for continuing their support for fighting it. Not a single one. Which begs the question of why our soldiers keep volunteering to fight this fraudulent war? Peace
You have informed us, Ymhotep, that you are “well-off” financially.
Have you, really, no clue as to “why” the young, in this not so “well-off” for-most-of-us nation, “enlist” or “volunteer” to “fight”, as you so correctly put it, “this fraudulent war”?
A strange lack of “understanding” it would seem, for one who claims to know so much.
Oh, the conundrum of it all.
DW
Good Morning, DW
I wonder how much it costs for a big can of sanctimony.
Surely you jest? Is it OK with you that our young jettison their morality simply to find a job? Better they become gainfully employed as hitmen for the mob. Peace
And another one follows DW over the cliff. Peace
Why don’t you, Ymhotep, with your money and your brains, offer a few of these young human beings, those who have few “choices”, a job?
What are you doing to confirm the better moral sensibilities of “our” young?
What example do you offer? What direction? What help? What moral compass?
Your “better” suggestion reveals much of your own sensibilities and “philosophy”, Ymhotep. You realize that, of course?
Peas.
DW
I’ve caught up with the comment stream here, mui1. Thanks for the additional links as I will take a look at them.
Thanks, DW, though like you, who are the very model of graciousness and moral integrity, I draw my sensibilities from a long tradition that this culture nicely bequeathed to us, a culture embued with Enlightenment thought and centuries of humanism.
This culture was seriously worn down in the struggle for world domination that was the prior centuries three world wars (I’m counting the “cold” one), and the various colonial wars fought in-between and after them.
We live at a precarious time in world history. Archeology teaches us that no culture is immune from total disaster, and the wonderful legacy that stretches from Athens to today is endangered. It stretched to include the best from world culture, from Mecca to the Ganges and beyond. But now, it is highly endangered, facing a number of dangers, from nuclear annihilation to widespread dictatorship to environmental collapse.
“Reason, tolerance, and understanding”… these are our tools, and I am pleased to see them wherever I find them, here, some other blogs, and I imagine in the ideal self that still inhabits a vast number of individuals in this country.
We can only agree to disagree. We see the issue differently. I’m not going to argue with you.
You are beginning to sound like Jo from yesterday. A lot of people go into the military because they don’t have any other way to make a living and very little hope of finding one. And then there are the people who want to serve their country – is that a novel idea to you? I remember reading a story about a soldier who had gone back into the Army at the age of 42 because his wife had a very had illness and he had no way to pay for the expensive health coverage.
You’re making a lot of assumptions in that little rant DW. It might work out a little better for you if you take a liitle less time trying to figure me out and a little more time in looking at yourself in the mirror. Just a suggestion. If you have some questions that are a bit less self-serving please ask me. Peace
Serve their country how? Killing nasty commies or Islamofascists? The damage that they do to this country by doing that isn’t really serving it. Isn’t it sad that the top 10% in this country can afford all the medical care that they need (and the best military that money can buy) and the bottom 90% of us have to suit up in body armor to find ours? But keep on supporting the military and I’m sure that everything will eventually change in our favor. Peace
I never “argue” with anybody. I simply present my case. Peace
If anything, it’s the other way around. 9/11 was the justification for invading Iraq, which they already wanted to do. Everything else is collateral damage, including the damage to our government.
Could you turn down your personal morality to a level that’s more compatible with reality?
I’m sure you’ve never done anything immoral in your life, and that you’ve never had to decide between immoral and illegal actions in staying alive, especially when there are no jobs.
But you don’t have any right to judge others who don’t choose the way you think they should.
“There is a tremendous need for Congressional and/or independent investigations that have full mandate and subpoena power to ferret out the truth about what has occurred at Guantanamo and other U.S. “war on terror” prisons.”
I agree with you, Jeff, but for God’s sake, don’t hold your breath.
“To judge a man means nothing more than to ask: What content does he give to the form of humanity? What concept of humanity should we have if he were its only representative?” Wilhelm von Humboldt, 1797.
One of the most informative posts/comment threads I’ve read anywhere on this set of issues, particularly that of lack of accountability over the past eight years on detention deaths inside our evil system. I remember seeing photos of detainees arriving at Gitmo on litters, some with IVs attached, soon after the facility went active.
Thanks, Jeff, mzchief, mui1 and ghostof911 for your thoughts and investigative efforts.
DWBartoo, it’s accessible, the link, but I think some of Andy worthington’s readers have trouble with access. I don’t know if it’s a browser problem or not. Could you google it and use the cache version or something? Sign and disseminate, it’s important.
Or actually there’s a Care2 link directly too the petition. but I have to run.
Hey, ET, thank you! Agreed– great thread and good going folks. :)
As the ranking Army Medical Department officer with the Joint Detainee Operations Group, JTF 160, beginning in early February 2002, I can assure you no detainees died that month or any other month before I left in late June 2002. I worked for CAPT Shimkus as well as the camp commander, and helped re-write SOP for potential detainee deaths as it was a concern due to several urgent detainee conditions. One detainee, nick-named “Half-Dead Bob” by the Air Force medical personnel who transported him to us was the odds-on favorite to expire, but we saved him, and all the other detainees we cared for, who would certainly kill us if they had the chance. I am open and willing to submit to any questioning about this and the mefloqine force protection methods we employed by any credible person or organization. I am proud of the job I and 99.9% of my colleagues in JTF 160 performed while I was there and say unequivocally that Gitmo is the finest detention facility in the world, as International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) told me then and later when I performed similar duties in Iraq. I wrote my memoir, “Saving Grace at Guantanamo Bay” about my experience there and stand by my book in that we worked hard every day to treat the illegal combatants in our care with dignity and respect despite regular abuse by detainees on the guards. How many stories do you hear about that?
Thank you, mjgranger. For readers’ sake, I can verify that this commenter is who he says he is.
I think your comment essentially corroborates what I have said. I did not find any other evidence of detainee deaths or reports of same. You note that there was concern over potential detainee deaths and that there were “urgent” medical conditions for some detainees. I note that you arrived in early February and that detainees began officially arriving on January 11, 2002. I presume that any early deaths occurred in and around that time.
As a member of JTF 160, you were not presumably aware of all the actions of JTF 170, the interrogation crew, and most of the abuse reported — but not all — stems from conditions of confinement and interrogation. Your blanket statement that the detainees you cared for “would certainly kill us if they had the chance” is nothing you can prove, and expresses an opinion that has been largely debunked, when the actual identity of the detainees became known over time. I don’t doubt that there may have been some detainees who would have or even tried to inflict harm, but that is not any different than any other penal institution, and given the onerous conditions of the prisoners, and the circumstances of their kidnapping and rendition to Guantanamo, not to mention the torture many of them endured prior to this at Bagram and Kandahar under U.S. or U.S.-allied confinement, such wish for violence can not be expected to derive from only ideological motivations, but could have been produced by the madness such conditions produce.
I take issue with what the ICRC reported about Guantanamo conditions. I cannot assess what the ICRC told you, but I do know that press reports in Nov. 2004 stated that “the American military has intentionally used psychological and sometimes physical coercion ‘tantamount to torture’ on prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.” (New York Times)
The ICRC report came from a month-long visit to Guantanamo in June 2004. I believe that mjgranger left Guantanamo at the end of June 2002. I wonder what mjgranger says to reports by the Times that “some doctors and other medical workers at Guantánamo were participating in planning for interrogations, in what the report called ‘a flagrant violation of medical ethics.’”
We know from detainee reports that some detainees did receive humane care at times, and even kindness from guards (every book by detainees mention this), however this does not change the overall parameters of taking uncharged individuals, most of them later found to have no association with terrorism or the Taliban, and hold them in indefinite detention under conditions, often in isolation, and subjected to abusive interrogations, violent IRF cell extractions by “tiger teams,” etc. For instance, the former Convening Authority (chief judge) at Guantanamo told Bob Woodward at the Washington Post the interrogation of Mohammed Al-Qahtani was tantamount to torture.
As for the consequences and circumstances surrounding the use of mefloquine at Guantanamo on all incoming prisoners, Jason Leopold and I are working on a follow-up story on this which will be published at Truthout early next week. I think you’ll find it interesting and informative. And for your offer to submit to questioning by “any credible person or organization” in regards to the mefloquine and other force protection methods, I’ll take that under advisement.
I’ve been reading Karen Greenberg’s book “The Least Worst Place”. I recently read a section where she quoted someone (Chief medical officer Shimkus?) who had told someone (camp commandant Lehnert?) that many of the captives had life threatening wounds — which made me doubt again that there had only been 6 deaths in custody.
It is worth remembering that the first deaths in custody were reported less than a month after the DoD published its first full official list of all captives. Ie. prior to the publication of this list they could have hid earlier deaths.
It is worth noting that Abu Zubaydah, who we now know had been shipped to Camp Strawberry Fields in late 2003, and shipped out again in mid 2004, was NOT on its first official list of ALL captives — so we know the DoD has been deceitful in its reporting…
Yes me too, re: only 6 deaths.
There interviews upon interviews, that seem to suggest medical care was withheld, and that sounds like policy. Not to mention leaked stuff from courts re: Omar Khadr.
And really is “beets and cheese” “attending to y’all needs (Muslims), cultural sensitivity. Sounds like the same kind of army castoffs thrown to Japanese American citizens in internment camps circa WWII.
I mean we have such a long list of “cultural sensitivities” at Gitmo . . ./s
Just the idea of naming a critically injured prisoner “Half-Dead Bob,” a human being, with no evidence of guilt, is disgusting. Is that some kind of humour? Drop-dead Dick? Half-dead Bob? Hilarious.
& what Jeffrey says.
Before I get distracted. Here’s the care2 link to Free Fayiz al-Kandari to the Care of the Kuwaiti Government Now! petition. I guess some people are having trouble accessing Andy W.’s site.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/free-fayiz-al-kandari-to-the-care-of-the-kuwait-government-now/
Beautifully, honestly, fluently and most-powerfully said, Jeff.
Thank you, yet again, for your humanity and, as well, for your inspirational and profound eloquence.
Meeting you, coming to know you, and sharing thoughts and hopes with you has been a genuine pleasure and a thoroughly appreciated priivilege.
DW