A new story at Truthout, which I co-authored with Jason Leopold, takes up the investigation of the story into the mass drugging of Guantanamo detainees with the controversial drug mefloquine, aka Lariam, which we originally reported earlier this month. When I wrote about the issue here at Firedoglake, I noted that DoD had scrubbed one the key documents we used. I thought it had resurfaced, but looking today, it’s gone again.
The issue of documents is not so key for this latest look into DoD actions at Guantanamo, as we interviewed or had email exchanges with key individuals involved. The most important was Captain Albert Shimkus, Jr. (ret.), who from 2002 to summer 2003 was former commanding officer and chief surgeon for both the Naval Hospital at Guantanamo Bay and Joint Task Force 160, which administered health care to the detainees. A copy of a January 23, 2002 SOP obtained by Truthout showed that it was Shimkus who signed off on the mefloquine policy.
As the article at Truthout explains:
Capt. Albert J. Shimkus… defended the unprecedented practice, first reported by Truthout earlier this month, to administer 1250 mg of the drug mefloquine to all “war on terror” prisoners transferred to Guantanamo within the first 24 hours after their arrival, regardless of whether they had malaria or not. The 1250 mg dosage is what is used to treat individuals who have malaria and is five times higher than the prophylactic dose given to individuals to prevent the disease. One tropical disease expert said there is no “medical justification” for the practice….
Although there were two media reports in 2002 that quoted Shimkus saying “war on terror” detainees were given antimalarial medication, neither he nor any other military or Pentagon official ever disclosed to lawmakers or military personnel who raised questions about the efficacy of mefloquine, that mass presumptive treatment was the policy in place at Guantanamo.
“There were certain issues we were advised not to talk about,” Shimkus told Truthout in an interview, explaining the reason the policy was never publicly disclosed.
In the interview with Truthout, Shimkus goes on to describe what agencies and personnel he relied on to make the decision, as he readily admitted that he was no public health or malaria expert himself. Nevertheless, he persistently defended the mass administration of mefloquine, even if it did possibly lead to serious side effects in some of the detainees. He maintained the “benefits outweighed the risks.”
The Truthout article explains how unusual this kind of antimalaria approach is. In fact, in regards to the use of mefloquine, or of any population transfer from Central or South Asia to a non-malarial endemic area, the procedure was unprecedented, and if you believe the many links provided from the CDC, and elsewhere, was dangerous.
With the original Truthout investigation drawing upon a parallel study by Seton Hall University School of Law’s Center for Policy and Research, and suppositions by both investigations that mefloquine, whose drug family was linked to studies done by the CIA’s MKULTRA (see section on quinolines), was used experimentally to soften up the detainees, Captain Shimkus specifically denied any knowledge of any experiment done on the detainees in regards to mefloquine, or anything else. “I don’t remember in my 18 months [at Guantanamo] a word spoken in regards to research.”
But there was some reason he had been told not to talk about the procedure, and other matters. If the medical treatment at Guantanamo was so world-class, why are they hiding information about what was done there? Why can’t redacted medical records be released? Why do even detainee’s attorneys find it next to impossible to obtain these records? Why is a DoD Inspector General report on drugs and detainees kept totally classified?
The only way such thing can be kept secret is because the American people are not clamoring for the truth to be revealed. That is a sad and sombre reflection upon the state of this society as it goes into the second decade of the 21st century.
Jason and I have brought the country the first clear indication of what kind of drugging shenanigans were happening at Guantanamo. I’ll be honest, I’m unhappy with the response from the human rights community and key political bloggers, not to mention the mainstream press. Has the decision of the Obama administration to leave Guantanamo open, and to follow Bush in the policy of indefinite detention and abusive interrogation (Appendix M), so paralyzed the country that very serious charges of drugging of prisoners can pass by unremarked?
I thank Firedoglake and Truthout for supporting the work that furthers these kinds of investigations. But much more needs to be done. The blowback from non-accountability over torture is creeping into the society at an ever-expanding rate. We see this in the seeming acceptability in which accused prisoners, like Bradley Manning, are kept in onerous conditions akin to a Supermax prison… or Camp Echo at Guantanamo.
For readers, the question of what next lies before you with a moral imperative this holiday season. We bring you the news. You can hide your heads, or you can choose to act, raise your voice, make known the unacceptability of such treatment by the state on prisoners held without charge, without trial, victims of a “war on terror”, itself the blowback from a decades-long policy of supporting dictators and torturers abroad.



76 Comments

All that the government’s savagely bellicose reaction to the Wikileaked cables does is prove the basic underlying truths shown by the cables: That the US doesn’t always, or even often, practice what it preaches to other nations.
My questions: Wasn’t mefloquine also administered to US soldiers without exception in Viet Nam? Do you know? Or was it used only in certain areas? Also, what was the dosage in Nam? I have it this from a trustworthy source I believe and am led to believe that many US soldiers in Viet Name palmed the med or did not otherwise take it and many of them wound up with malaria, so there may be reason to assume that there may be a precedent here not previously considered. Do you want us to check it out or do you want to? We may be on opposite sides of the issue methinks but why do double the work. I have no reason not to trust you and I have no direct source I can get the answer from, while you might. You chair with me I chair with you and maybe someday we can meet over a nice cup of sherbet in Cuba someday when we get to the bottom of this, oh, wait, no. The ice cream is for the detainees only, I forgot. They get dessert every day and did also in 2002 when this allegedly went down. Now supposedly, they were disciplined for “misbehaving” and one common penalty was no dessert, which was sometimes ice cream. 4 oz. cups, usually strawberry for some odd reason, but my source says this is the case, and why fabricate that? Also, sherbet was often on the menu rather than ice cream. Misbehaving I pondered as to the definition, did this include not eating ones vegetables? No. Not an offense. So we cut the detainees more slack than our children at times, no? And this is torture? Last concern for right now, Good Humor? Carvelle? Mr. Softee? Ben & Jerry? And, what does Haliburton charge for an ice cream? http://GITMO.US, hugs and fishes, Bill Purkins http://OneCent.US & http://FreePressAndMedia.com. That’s quite enough shameless plugs for now. Toodles and Merry Christmas.
Have you ever read Confederacy of Dunces?
Any chance of getting this into the Active Voice?
In other words, Captain Shimkus, advised BY WHOM?
thank you, jeff, for bringing us the truth about what is being done in our names
tweeted and recommended
Are you prepared to back up any of these claims?
Or are you relying on the FDL author to investigate them all?
Because things don’t really work that way here. If you’ve got a diary to write on the subject, with links and claims with evidence, you’re welcome to. But dropping a bunch of nonsense into someone else’s thread is rather disrespectful.
Oh, wait. We called the infectious disease expert, Dr. Oaks? I forget his name, who was consulted in the Seton Hall “PRESSRELEASE?” that started this whole mess. He never called back. We also talked to the law professor Mark Denbeaux at Seton Hall whose name was at the top of the FINDINGS document, one which cited no dates as to when said melaquine(sp?) and didn’t really get a chance to ask him in a hurried happy holidays and off the phone he’s a busy guy and suggested he wasn’t the guy to talk to really, well then who IS? Also? In the bottom of those medical reports there is a name of a person sounds like a detainee as it cites a NAME vs. DOD case. To the left of that there are Social Security number like 888-00-xxxx where xxxx is clearly the detainees GITMO number, even I can figure THAT out. Now, these look like made up numbers to fit into the Army computer system for medical stuff (stuff. that’s a technical term we use when we don’t know the right acronym. I forget what it stands for. Maybe you know?) My question? Are these detainee numbers published anywhere? If so, i.e. what is David Hicks’ fake SS#> Raises the question, will Obama now give them social security benefits? Also? If the numbers ARE public is not Seton Hall and Dr. WhosiewhatisOaksMaybeWhonever called back perhaps guilty of a breach of confidence by publishing the medical records of at least three detainees for all to see? On this one WE’LL let YOU know, as maybe you don’t care to go there. If so, why mot? Seems like a good story to me. Aren’t medical records sealed from public disclosure even AFTER a trial? So let me ask ONE final question and then I have to go sleepy time. I get up at 4:30. If I get someone to give up the detainee 4 digit numbers and match names to these medical records will I get free airfare and a nice recommendation for TIME MAN OF THE YEAR like David Assange if I get Mr. Denbeaux disbarred and Dr. Whatsidaisy’s license to practice medicine revoked? Please advise. Maybe you ask Denbeaux. He doesn’t seem eager to talk with us again. Toodles. Bill Purkins. **Mod Note: Conveyances of personal information is discouraged** Oh. I like vanilla. You?
11/30/2004 New York Times
Red Cross Finds Detainee Abuse in Guantánamo
Your propaganda doesn’t go over here.
As for Vietnam, as in other situations, military personnel often didn’t take their antimalarial drugs, even recently in Afghanistan, where Army Rangers only had to take their one pill of mefloquine (250mg) one time per week. And yes, some did come down with malaria.
But they were in a malarial area. Cuba, according to DoD’s own documents, doesn’t have malaria.
The detainees were given five times the prophylactic dose that you or anyone else took in Vietnam. But then, you likely never read our reporting.
Btw, Shimkus told me he took mefloquine in Vietnam and had no bad side effects. He said “clinically” he’d never even observed an adverse effect (which seems highly unlikely), but he wouldn’t answer what he’d seen “personally,” e.g., in Vietnam.
I am not against taking medication to protect against malaria, even mefloquine, if that’s all there is (though now there are other choices, and DoD now recommends mefloquine only if others aren’t available, because of the problems with it). This story is not about malaria prophylaxis (in fact, the detainees also received that — cholorquine and/or primaquine in weekly doses), and we have had no problems with that.
Our story is about the unprecedented and inexcusable use of treatment levels of a drug on 100s of people who had no malaria, and the possible effects on them of this.
“Shameless”, indeed.
He wouldn’t say.
“If the numbers ARE public is not Seton Hall and Dr. WhosiewhatisOaksMaybeWhonever called back perhaps guilty of a breach of confidence by publishing the medical records of at least three detainees for all to see?”
You are truly uninformed. The medical record was posted online by the Department of Defense. Here’s the link:
http://www.dod.gov/pubs/foi/detainees/death_investigation/medical-1/Pages_12-19_from_Dickstein_Medical_Files_folder_1_of_3_part_3_of_81.pdf
Note the server: dod.gov
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2010-12-20 17:57:37
More great work, Dr. Kaye.
Thank you and great respect for your honourable labors. Your and your colleagues’ seminal work on Gitmo and the United States’ global network of torture sites – and worse still, torturers – deserves all the praise Robert Jay Lifton earned for his towering work: The Nazi Doctors.
After WWII, the OSS (later the CIA) and US Army “intelligence” defiled America and our Constitution when they eagerly snapped up defeated Nazis for service in our war against the economic system we feared and hated: communism. A great many of our Nazi servants – in and outside of the Gehlen Org – went on to bring terror and death squads to the Middle East and Latin America.
Dr. Kaye, the evil you and Jason and your colleagues document will not fall only on those “overseas”. America’s own torturers and extra-judicial murderers – in and out of uniform – won’t be going hto Aleppo and Buenos Aires and Tegucigalpa at the end of their tours.
Instead, they’ll be coming back to our freshly christened “Homeland” – to the veteran hiring preferances that give them priority for careers in our police cars, jails, transport molestation squads, and prisons.
Americans – citizens and visitors alike – will reap the torture, murder, and violence the career criminals who comprise our permanent foreign policy establishemt and the career military officers and spooks who assist them have long wrought upon brown people and other furriners with the temerity to live over assets we covet and claim as our own.
May Gods have mercy upon us, for our leaders have long since denied mercy to others.
Thanks for your work and for illuminating what – and who – will come upon us all.
It’s been a while. (Is there a connection or is it the dunces thing?)
You left out, as private security guards for political candidates.
http://www.adn.com/2010/10/17/1506223/miller-security-guards-handcuff.html
This all sounds like a clinical trial without providing for the informed consent of the trial participants.
WikiLeaks just exposed Pfizer for doing just that in Nigeria.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/dec/09/wikileaks-cables-pfizer-nigeria?INTCMP=SRCH
America has become a frightening place to live. The inexcusable actions of its military and its politicians, the inexcusable inaction of its media and its people…I wonder if other countries would accept American refugees right now.
Jeff,
A thanks to you and Jason for this difficult work.
It is a constant dialogue in our family about the difference between the “abcde” approach to a Nazi-like regime versus an “a – jump straight to d” approach.
The latter would be more shocking and cause a wave of intolerance. The former just slides the society into oppression without even a whimper.
We have struggled to find a church to celebrate our faith. Not one church that we can find is taking a strong stand as an entire congregation against torture. We find many that will point us to “social statements” they have signed but not one that is daily opposing such acts.
Perhaps this is how “underground” church movements begin?
If you’re thinking of emigrating, you might want to move quickly while there are still opportunities available.
Is there such a thing as a congregation of unbelievers. If there is, I think you would find quite a few folks there who share your sympathies.
Perhaps that is why Karl Rove is helping in trying to prosecute Julian Assange. Something to hide Karl?
Of course we know there is or that slimeball would not be involved in this and if DOJ does indeed prosecute, there must be fear in a lot of places about what we may find out.
What I’m not seeing here is anything explicitly about the quite frequent side effects of lariam–hallucinations and other psychoactivity–some permanent. see http://www.lariaminfo.org/ for example.
When my son went off for a year’s graduate fieldwork in Mozambique, he was given a crash course on malaria prophylactics, and lariam was too scary to consider. He also knew a fellow grad student who took it and tried to exit a high NYC apartment through a window. Fortunately this was during an observation period before she traveled, and she was retrained. My kid took doxycycline and avoided malaria, but did end up with a bad case dengue fever (for which there is no prevention yet.)
Not a peep outta churches wrt gross income maldistribution either. To an atheist, in this highly religious U.S. era, it seems like religion has lost all moral authority.
We have an underutilized Max prison here in Illinois that O proposed to send the Guantanamo prisoners to, but the local R Manzullo pitched a fit and now we find out that as part of the DADT agreement, our new Senator Kirk put that in the fine print of the deal. No Guantanamo prisoners to Thomson, Ill. for my vote on DADT.
I’m sorry, I should have made the connection that deaths at Guantanamo might be easier to hide than if it were in the U.S.
Since the beginning of time, religions have been very effective tools of the state.
I agree with you. I point out to friends all the time that justice must be part of unconditional love. If there is no justice, there cannot be any show of grace or unconditional love.
DADT will not redeem our depraved military. Our leaders- President and Congressional Representatives- have sold the soul of humanity in exchange for what? Reducing domestic unemployment? Or do they know a voice with power has a short-lived tenure and thus they will settle for tidbits around the edges.
The Reparasites are very happy about the DADT fiasco. They’re walking away with the store for a little pocket change.
ghost,
I’m aware of what you say. It’s just worth typing the obvious from time-to-time, in simple declarative sentences, using words of one syllable. Sometimes that makes a person or two take notice.
Ranting also serves a function: emotional release, but is unlikely to influence others.
Jeff. thanks for enduring in exposing these egregious practices by our government. I share your frustration with the little attention the American people give them.
I fear another milestone on the way to the collapse of our civilized society was passed as the opportunity to expose and undo the policies of past administrations was actively suppressed by President Obama and the compliant Congress.
It is so good however to have this information in the public domain though it may take generations for it to contribute to change. These facts will be a starting place.
That is because religions are created by the prevailing humans and their culture. They merely reflect the interest and morality of the people. I find no evidence that churches bring moral authority to the table. You might try the UUs or the UUCs. They are pretty liberal.
It this type of media, it is impossible to know who is on the receiving end of communication. There is an apparent audience, and also a non-apparent audience. The messages delivered by a poster may or may not be intended for the apparent audience.
That should be not UUC but UCC (United Churches of Christ)
Mefloquin was required for soldiers when I served. Before I was shipped to the Phillipines I was given the drug and told to take it prophalactically. So this probably isn’t news to anyone who has ever served in the military.
Or it’s still allowed…..
You beat me to the punch. My partner was put on a prophylactic mefloquine regime for a business trip to India. The dreams he had were surreal to say the least. The effect of a megadose on someone already stressed out from capture, transport, and who knows what else, would probably be downright hallucenogenic. Methinks this has less to do with prudent medical care than with “Ve haf vays of making you talk.”
I’ve done a little posting at RawStory recently. They use Disqus as the messaging engine, and it has a nice little feature. All replies get sent to the inbox of the poster being replied to, with a direct hyperlink to that reply. In practice, it is possible to keep a dialog going for days after the original post went up. This feature helps to prevent the loss of valuable comments down the black hole. I don’t know what it would take to implement that feature at FDL, but it ought to be considered.
“It has served us well, this myth of Christ”
Pope Leo X
Strange statement from a Pope
Yes, it’s my private hypothesis that whatever this ended up being, it was an experiment observing closely the “adverse events” of mefloquine — something at the time their internal discussions bemoaned not having a good-enough study — on a confined, controllable “cohort”. In particular, they wanted to see the interaction of mefloquine on stress, because of the seeming upsurge in AEs/SEs on soldiers in combat situations.
The Army loved mefloquine, because they created it. Lots of money may have flown there, too.
None of this, however, is to implicate Capt. Shimkus in the experiment, if there was one, as he may not have been “read in”.
From there, the intel guys, who may have heard of it from the AFMIC connection, took it on for their own, in certain aspects.
This is all hypothetical, mind you.
If you follow my link to my previous article on this issue, 2nd link in this story — http://my.firedoglake.com/valtin/2010/12/01/expose-gitmo-detainees-mass-recipients-of-controversial-drug/ — you’ll find most of the article is precisely on the effects of Lariam/mefloquine.
I get that the humanity is part of the church and the church is part of humanity…
Torture should not be tolerated or endorsed through lack of action by Christians.
Sounds like the drug was part of the torture. I wonder if that’s one reason why Jose Padilla is a vegetable today? Mengele would be proud.
Also, which Big PhRMA corp manufacturers this and who did they hook up with in the Bush admin?
Americans are remaining silent or uninformed by either laziness or propaganda. Look how now we will even submit to being groped or subjected to gods know how much radiation by the “authorities” at the airports. What next? Will we go unprotesting down the chutes into the gas chambers? It’s starting to look that way.
I was amazed and saddened that DADT was, for some people who seemed to be starting to wake up, a bone juicy enough that it put paid for all Obama’s and Bush’s other crimes and betrayals.
It is not. It is simply, to my mind another “stop-loss” strategy.
How anyone can say Obama is better than Bush absolutely amazes me until I realize how the propaganda is everywhere and there is little paying of attention as our good Germans keep their heads down and noses to the grindstones. Also, he’s black…so he couldn’t be a bad man, right?
Reading the history of the rise of the Nazis is like reading about America in this time…terrifying.
Larium has long been known to cause psychotic breaks, and given the use of psychological torture at Gitmo, the question here is “did the US employ Larium in their torture methodology.”
Here’s the basics from wiki on the side effects:
Mefloquine may have severe and permanent adverse side effects. It is known to cause severe depression, anxiety, paranoia, aggression, nightmares, insomnia, seizures, birth defects[citation needed], peripheral motor-sensory neuropathy,[4] vestibular (balance) damage and central nervous system problems.[5] Central nervous system events occur in up to 25% of people taking Lariam, such as dizziness, headache, insomnia, and vivid dreams.[6] A This American Life broadcast entitled “Contents Unknown” tells the story of an American who lost his memory while working in India as a result of mefloquine prophylaxis.[7]
Here’s a link to a segment 60 Minutes did on Larium in 2003:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/27/60II/main538144.shtml
a quote from the 2003 60 Minutes piece:
According to its own internal documents, Roche pharmaceuticals, Lariam’s maker, has received over 3,000 reports of psychiatric problems associated with the drug, from nightmares, depression and hallucinations to paranoia, psychosis and aggression.
But could Lariam lead to something worse? That was the question raised last summer when Master Sgt. William Wright and three other Ft. Bragg soldiers were accused of killing their wives, all within a period of just under six weeks.
_____________________
Psychotic breaks are one thing — homicide is quite specifically another.
I find it interesting that the problem of homicidal tendencies has shown up in military personnel as far back at 2002. This would indicate that the military is aware of this specific psychological effect, and given our track record in the use of psychological torture, it wouldn’t surprise anyone that it was this would be the specific effect that the military was trying to elicit in the prisoners.
WHAAAAT??? Unconditional love? There is no such thing. I love my husband but there are conditions, like if he doesn’t get up every day and get to work, he’s out..if he cheats, he’s out..etc…I am a conservative very proud to be a Republican …do you love me??? Bet not..
Sounds good to me
We have a saying in psychiatry that each of the pathologies are pretty much the same in their manifestations. It is the healthy that are unique and diverse in their thinking and behavior.
I am coming to believe the same of cultures. You’ve seen one fascist state you’ve seen them all.
From the Truthout article:
It (larium) belongs to a class of drugs known as quinolines, which were part of a 1956 human experiment study to investigate “toxic cerebral states,” as part of the CIA’s MKULTRA mind-control program.
Thank you for saying that Kassandra.
There is “paying attention” going on, but it is being done outside our shores. Our plunge into the fascist abyss is being observed with shock.
Love the sinner, but not the sin.
There have to be protocols that are strictly followed, and typically, the principle one is the permission of the individual participate in a trial. That entails full disclosure of the trial protocols to the candidate participant. When these protocols are not followed, a disciplinary hearing is mandatory leading to lawsuits among other punitive consequences. And secrecy is not a protocol.
In other words, the U.S. military are thugs who feel entitled to do whatever they bloody like.
plucky upthread says
But the purpose of the detentions is not to “extract information about terrorism” since the big “terror” event was an inside job. The purpose was to induce false confessions. What evidence is there that the drugs administered would induce that?
It depends on your destination.
I work in pharma reasearch, and although I’m not in regulatory, I’m aware that there are fairly strict international standards regarding the conduct of clinical trails involving humans.
If there is sufficient evidence that a drug was administered to persons in high doses without their informed consent, it would seem appropriate for one of the international regulatory bodies to comment.
Shimkus did tell us that there was informed consent “in principle”, but others have told us the informed consent was only for surgical procedures, not the malaria treatment. The whole discussion got too confusing and long for our readers in the contexts of the current article. We will be taking it up in the near future.
The purpose may have been experimentation on the use of induced hallucinatory states of prolonged disorientation and high anxiety to impede memory recall, substitute false memories, and subsequently test the individual’s recall in a normal or baseline state of consciousness to determine if he recalls the false memory as a real memory.
I have no doubt that CIA would be thrilled to discover a way to accomplish that.
Separate informed consents are signed for each procedure. One of surgical procedures cannot remotely be used for a drug trial.
This is a great angle to attack this issue because it touches on medical malpractice, which strikes a nerve with a broader audience than lefty bloggers. Will be looking forward to your follow-up.
Attempts to pull this off on animals would generate a huge outcry.
On fellow humans by so-called “christians,” not so much.
Attempts to pull this off on animals would generate a huge outcry.
On fellow humans by so-called “christians,” not so much.
It appears that you may know something about clinical trials, but you know very little about our (US) military.
Allow me: when you sign those articles of enlistment, or in some cases re-enlistment, you are no longer subject to the US constitution. You now come under the auspices (read authority) of the UCMJ, otherwise known as the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and believe me, those are the only rights you have. Under certain conditions you can be executed where you stand for disobeying an order given to you by a superior. The option to refuse treatment for a medical condition is not always available to you, as your body is considered government property. Sometimes, and that means once in a great while if you know about it, you can refuse a treatment. Generally, that is not the case. This applies to you throughout your entire active enlistment, and in some cases is still in force for a period of time even after you are mustered out.
Thanks, Dr. Murphy.
You are absolutely correct about the pernicious influence of the imported Nazis after WWII. There is a great book that excellently documents the nuts and bolts of how their influence penetrated the political parties and institutions. See Christopher Simpson’s Blowback: America’s recruitment of Nazis and its effects on the Cold War.
What would the Guantanamo medical records reveal, if they were made public?
You may have reported on this. Mahmoud Habib, the other Australian captive who was held in Guantanamo, was given (some?) of his medical records, when he was repatriated. The records he was given were sufficient for torture experts to state that the records did confirm his accounts of torture. His records, for instance, recorded frequent instances of blood in his urine. They stated that otherwise unexplained blood in the urine was one of the signs of longterm damage to an individual’s internal organs, due to powerful beatings.
In the early years repatriated captives were given western sneakers, a blue sweater, western pants, a small backpack, and their medical records. After the experts examined Habib’s records I wondered whether they started withholding those records.
A couple of years ago Carol Rosenberg, of the Miami Herald, published an article about Tariq al-Sawah, when he first faced charges before a Guantanamo military commission. She commented on how his weight records showed wild fluctuations. The fluctuantions in those weight records were hard to visualize — so I graphed his recorded weigh-ins. They didn’t show wild fluctuations. They showed gross incompetence. And, as I examined other captives records, and graphed them. I kept coming across other instances of incompetence. Tariq al-Sawah’s was just the most easily recognized.
He arrived at the camp weighing over 200 pounds. And, by the last recorded weigh-in, his weight had almost doubled. His records show three periods of truly wild loss, followed by truly wild gain. What I think happened is that the medical technicians who actually did the weigh-ins ROUTINELY recorded weights in the wrong captives’ medical files.
The most dramatic fluctuation in Tariq al-Sawah’s weight showed a loss of almost 280 pounds, in a single month, more than 2/3rds of his body weight. This put him in the dangerously low weight group, whose weight was supposed to be recorded weekly, or daily. His weight was recorded approximately a dozen times in August of 2006. Then, on August 30th, 2006, he had two weights recorded. Something like 125 pounds, and something like 410 pounds. According to the records he gained 286 pounds in a single day.
That is clearly not possible. The other two periods of fluctuation are similar, differing only in that the plateau after the sudden dip wasn’t as low, it wasn’t low enough for frequent weigh-ins, and his recovery was over a month, not a single day. I think for periods of months at a time, three different men had their weight recorded in al-Sawah’s file. I don’t think his weight fluctuated at all, I think he had a steady gain of about 5 pounds a month, for four years.
You would think that the records of three skinny men would have suddenly ballooned to 400 pounds — but I didn’t see any evidence of that.
I did see numerous other individuals whose weigh-in records showed precipitious losses, and sudden gains, where I thought their records had also been confused with other captives.
The skinnier captives had weekly or daily weigh-ins. The medical operating procedures said the captives should have more frequent weigh-ins, when their body-mass-index dipped dangerously low. But those records also show clear evidence of serious negligence.
Since we all have bowel movements, and urinate, our weights will fluctuate around a pound or two. So there is no real point in measuring weights with an accuracy of a tenth of a pound. Nevertheless some captives’ weigh-in records are to a tenth of a pound. And a number of the captives whose weight was in the range of a hundred pounds, or lower, had their weight recorded to an accuracy of a tenth of a pound.
The sign of petty fraud and negligence is that these captives who weights were dangerously low showed impossible plateauing of their weights. Their weight would be stable, at, say, 90.1 pounds, for several days in a row, or even as long as a week. Then it would show a gain, or loss, or several pounds, sometimes more than 5 percent of their weight.
Perhaps hunger strikers, when left to their own, stop having bowel movements. But the Guantanamo captives weren’t left to their own. They were forcefed litres of Ensure, through nosetubes. So, why weren’t their records showing daily fluctuations? Fraud and negligence.
The medical procedures that have been published said that every captive was going to be weighed, once a month, whether they wanted to be weighed or not. The records showed this was not done. There are no weight records for a small number of captives. I believe it is possible they were NEVER weighed. There are a larger group of captives who have no weight records for their first year or two of captivity.
Harder to explain are the captives who had weigh-in records AFTER they had already been repatriated. No. I am not making this up. Some captives records show them either being weighed, or refusing to be weighed, months, or in a few cases, YEARS after they had been sent home.
The captives’ habeas attorneys have said that it was not unsual to go all the way down to Guantanamo, wait in the interview room for their clients to be brought from the camps, only to find that the guards had confused the captives, and had brought a captive who was not their client.
When the captives appeared before their Combatant Status Review Tribunals many of them told the officers that they thought the summary of evidence memos read out during the hearing was for a different captive, because none of the allegations on the memo had anything to do with them, and a more important clue that the officers routinely ignored, none of the allegations had anything to do with the questions that their interrogators asked them during their interrogation sessions.
The record keeping at Guantanamo was, in general, clearly an enormous disaster. And it seems that the medical records were similarly in a constant state of disorder.
One of the most shocking cases that shows how inadequate the record keeping was, was that of captive 950, Abdullah Khan. He had been denounced, and his denunciators had walked away with a huge bounty. They didn’t just denounce him, they denounced the guy he was staying with, and all the other guests his host had invited for a card party, the night before his capture. And his denunciators didn’t just say he was a member of the Taliban — they told the credulous American security officials that Khan was reallly the Taliban’s former Governor of Herat Province, Khirullah Khairkhwa. They further claimed he was the head of the Taliban’s air force.
I called the American security officials credulous. The real Khirullah Khairkhwa had been captured a year and a half earlier.
Khan testified that, during his months of interrogation by Americans in Afghanistan, his interrogators kept insisting they knew he was really Khairkhwa, and that he was lying about his identity, and that if he didn’t admit it he would be sent “to a worse place”.
Sure enough, he was sent to Guantanamo, where his interrogators also insisted they knew he was really Khairkhwa, insisted they knew he was lying. But, when he had a chance to talk to his fellow captives, he learned the shocking news that the REAL Khairkhwa was only a few hundred yards away, that he had been in Guantanamo for ages. At his CSRT Khan testified that his interrogations never got past his interrogators insisting he was lying about his identity, and his pleas that they check the prison roster, so they could see they already held the real Khairkhwa.
Although I first read about this shocking incompetence four years ago I am still shocked that no interrogator or analyst took the obvious step of checking the prisoner roster, for the year and a half between Khan’s arrival and his CSRT.
I don’t think the confusion over Khan’s identity was a single anomalous instance. I think a close examination of the records that have already been made public shows that this kind of confusion was quite common.
Tangential– Here’s a good news update on the fund raiser for Bradley Manning’s legal defense:
“1,851 individuals have donated a total $113,706! Another 357 supporters have given $27,546 directly to Bradley’s legal trust account. (Updated: 5pm PST Dec. 20, 2010)
Bradley Manning’s total legal defense will cost about $100,000. We have transferred $77,500 towards that expense so far, are in the process making additional transfers, and are committed to funding the total needed. The defense fund also supports international public outreach and activities.” (link: http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/content/view/858/1 )
Thanks mzchief. When can we expect BoA, Visa, MC, and PayPal to freeze payments to Manning’s accounts as well?
At least the KKK does not have those concerns.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101207/09264812164/visa-mastercard-kkk-is-a-ok-wikileaks-is-wicked.shtml
“America’s own torturers and extra-judicial murderers – in and out of uniform – won’t be going hto Aleppo and Buenos Aires and Tegucigalpa at the end of their tours.
Instead, they’ll be coming back to our freshly christened “Homeland” – to the veteran hiring preferances that give them priority for careers in our police cars, jails, transport molestation squads, and prisons.
Americans – citizens and visitors alike – will reap the torture, murder, and violence the career criminals who comprise our permanent foreign policy establishemt”
That is a hell of a thought and plainly true, how else would it make any sense that the local pd look like darth vaders anymore?
Think one of the huge side benefitts, maybe the only substantial benefit to the two wars, is that it provides a full spectrum training field. Maybe it could be called, “School of the America’s Extention U.”
A way to impoverish spend down, and train the needed personal to mop up the mess when the financial work has softened up the population in the territory, now called Heimat.
We can’t be too cynical anymore.
If you knew where to go, and had the means, (beauco donero) you’d be there already, elbowing against the other expats.
It might be better to stay put… die like a man, in a camp; on the run; in bed; or.
Otherwise, nobody wants any ugly american this stage of the game, in the real out of the way designations, you might be invited for dinner, to be the dinner…
Not sayin’ long pig won’t be on the menu, right here too… “down home country style” or ?
Attn: Jeff Kaye, ()I apologize in advance for the length of this but I do not have enough time to edit this down and you deserve a complete answer)
Jeff, I disagree with your statement that I am “UNINFORMED,” but I think you for more completely informing me with the link and the (no reason not to accept the) fact that said records were originally published by the DOD.
However, that does not relieve Mr. Denbeaux’s responsibility to not compound the oversight. I am not a lawyer and even I know that if I see a medical record of a patient I have no right to know anything personal about that I do the proper and moral thing and turn my eyes away and inform the person who left the record(s) in my sight or easy access, even if an honest mistake, I have an obligation to protect that patient as a common courtesy to a fellow brother in being human, regardless of what my personal opinion may be of his or her politics and or possible status in regard to a criminal record or any lawsuits of a controversial nature they be a plaintiff or defendant in.
That would be like me saying that I think Denbeaux is not a good lawyer simply because I don’t agree with his personal opinion, but I won’t lower myself to that. Denbeaux is clearly a good lawyer, I mean look at his achievements. I think you have misworded your criticism of my admittedly sarcastic comments, but never do I question Mr. Denbeaux’s competence or good intentions.
Mr. Slahi’s right to a fair trial has apparently been determined to be valid by the government of the United States and my wish is that both plaintiff and defendant(s) in Slahi vs. DOD see justice done. Simply disagreeing with a political opinion or stance does not imply disrespect.
Mr. Denbeaux IS a busy guy and he did sort of not seem eager to talk when I called him back, but you must be told at this point that I have just confirmed those “mock?” (pardon the self eymologized slang but I don’t know what else to call them, other than “ISN” numbers, as I have found at least one full lists of detainees in order by detainee number which is a sequential number starting with 1 and going up beyond 400 something, I apologize for not having that document in front of me but I will get you a link asap as you seem like a reasonable guy who also is looking for just the facts, and whether or not you perceive me as having some hidden agenda in my admittedly offbeat style I can assure you that my agendas are anything but hidden. I have been accused (I consider it praise actually)of being (a bit?) GONZO in my writings, and have been time and time again been asked by people who assist me in my efforts that I at least call it “new media” and my reaction is, “17 of 20 of my press releases this summer were on page 1 of Google and or Yahoo an or BING. What’s your batting average?”
“New media” is a sugar coating akin to :don’t ask don’t tell,” which is basically just life experience credits towards a degree in hypocrisy, and the next step is just lying. Don’t ask don’t tell is stupid and the Army should dump it. I have no military service in my history but if I did and had been in a foxhole and the guy covering my butt when I drew the short straw was a good shot I wouldn’t give a rat’s butt if he stared at my butt so he could keep tabs on my location while I went for water or whatever.
To insinuate otherwise would be crazy. “Don’t ask” I agree with. I have no write to ask, “What are you some kinda *****?” unless its the punch line to a joke. “Don’t tell” though, that’s a personal choice, so if someone wants to tell? Let ‘em. Tell the world if you want. But don’t try to impress me with it. You’re no better than me and I’m no better than you. It’s as stupid as trying to pass laws legalizing gay marriage. Or whether or not abortion is murder after a certain number of weeks into a pregnancy, which would be INTENSELY arrogant to take to task the spiritual or religious even beliefs of someone in regard to when human life starts when the matter of soul or spirit comes into being assigned to a fetus. Isn’t this a breach of separation of church and state? Bad buzz, Jeff, you gotta agree, no? I mean I’m in New York and I won’t even go to a Yankees vs. Mets game these days for fear of missing the first three innings because of full body cavity searches for weaponry at the ticket gate, let alone a casual argument over a woman’s right of what she can and can not do with her own body based on her making possibly one of the most difficult decisions in her entire life, but it’s HER decision ultimately. So I don’t go THERE either, or next they’ll be passing laws that on one hand tell hernot only what she CAN’T do, but what we WANT her to do, in other words hide her shoes and slap a Martha Stewart ankle bracelet on her so her MAN can track her by GPS on his SMART PHONE to make sure she starts dinner on time so he can eat quick, make her perform her DUTY and then watch the Knicks game. That’s what these people really want, you know. It’s just cheaper to spend our taxdollars to legislate what we can do to feel good and love freely than it is to buy an uncut opiate for the masses. Simple bottom line, and I don’t care what color their suits are, what’s wrong with this country is not how you feel about GITMO and whether or not these detainees are getting a fair shake or not. Let the courts decide that and we should stay the hell out of it because WE WEREN’T THERE. And some people who WERE and admittedly may have a biased opinion but I gotta respect it as they’re more qualified than some eye candy or a starry eyed stooge on one of the cable networks asking “so what’s your favorite flavor of ice cream” if they get an exclusive interview with David Hicks. Well? I asked about the ice cream and was told it’s usually strawberry. No reason given. Maybe cause some people are allergic to chocolate? Or because chocolate has some caffienne? I don’t know. Besides, vanilla is always in short supply so maybe strawberry is the cheapest. Now I gotta know. I’ll keep you advised. Serious. There’s a reason for everything and it’s usually money.
Now, on Mr. Denbeaux. I just got off the phone with him again, because I’m about to break the story formally about the detainee’s medical records being disclosed by the fact that while the doctor’s name is stamped out for obvious AMA advised confidentiality but the patient NAME not being there, some student who didn’t understand the severity of brevealing and even inadvertently ANYONE’s medical history regardless of medium, print, telephone, yakkity yak or by computer or whatever, the fact is they may have been told “make sure there’s no names on there” and I doubt that, as Mr. Denbeaux is too good an attorney to make that mistake but he posisibly didn’t give the order and maybe a legal assistant or subordinate lawyer did and the student or clerk who had to file and stamp it just made a mistake. No malintent. Just a mistake.
I explained why I was calling and Mr. Denbeauk sort of jumped on me and said that i had “MISQUOTED” him. Now there. I quoted him. He said I misquoted him. Hit CTL F and find where I used a quote anywhere near his name please? But this was according to his STUDENTS, which means that either Mr. Denbeaux or his students are misinformed, do you agree? Now I looked twice and if you can show me a place where I misquoted him, I’ll look at it and try to recall my first conversation with him last week or so, I forget so I have to look at phone records. I’ll do that. I owe to him and you and myself and all these people who follow this story, which by the way I am very impressed at. You got a great site, lts of traffic and I applaud you for you efforts. There;s 70 or so I think comments on this piece alone and most blogs and articles get zippo or just one or not a lot of comments. You’re clearly doing something right.
But I’m a practical guy, and I think you’re only right about 50% of the time, like I think I am.
Sometimes I say 51% to justify my arrogance in having opinions at all but I know that’s jive. I don’t keep score, and no one I know does. It’s too frightening to perhaps find out we;re wrong nearly all the time, but I think that’s rare.
I expressed my OPNION about what I thought Mr. Denbeaux’s ATTITUDE and voice patterns on the phone were to me and even though I consider myself reasonably if not very qualified to make a call on things like that given my education and life’s work histires, I’d post my resume but it’d put you to sleep and I’m trying to wake you up here to the simple fact that I don’t stick my face in these matters for website hits and giggles alone. I do it because I have a personal interest in finding out what the truth is, and in this case I have some good reasons, but they’re personal and don’t matter a bit to my objectivity in digging up what that truth may be.
Now, you just pointed out to me that the DOD made a boo boo too by publishing those dcuments to begin with and that’s as bad as or actually I guess even worse than Mr. Denbeaux’s part in what is likely just an oversight but lawyers get paid a lot of money to nickel and dime us to death for sharpening a pencil or making a photocopy to ensure that whoever our opponent in a lawsuit doesn’t get away with the same type of honest mistakes.
I tried to tell Mr. Denbeaux something to this effect but he stepped on every word and I will quote him again. He said I had been “UNTRUSTWORTHY.” And THAT burns my you know what. I called him today to make sure that I in fact did not give the impression that I was accusing him of being a bad guy. But he wouldn’t let me finish and said a time or two that he was going to be forced to hang up on me but he didn’t, and I could hear his voice lighten up a little and he started calling me, “Bill,” and he asked me to listen to him, and I tried but when someone goes off like Chris Matthews with Tourette’s syndrome in regards to letting someone else finish a reasonable point or question, they’re usually a lost cause, and I defy you to show me more than a few “hard hitting” political opnionists and or talk sjpw hosts on either liberal or conservative cable TV news or talk radio stations who are making any money. The majority of them are so pathetically opnionated and viscious in their attacks with annecdotal crap and spin doctor Willie and the Hand Jive hide the rabbit tricks that a guest with an opposing point of view is there just to take a beating gladly and then use the clip to show their audience what a moron the other guy while the guy doing the pummeling is doing the same thing and NO ONE GETS ANY REAL NEWS!
You here at least have people who seem bright on both sides and you dig around and root around like I do to find out what the real answer is. Now I don’t know you well enough, or at all for that matter personally, but if we had more people like you on both sides of the issues, I think we’d be better off. I think I fall into that category too SOMETIMES, but I don’t think I’m qualified to take on just any issue, but not because I’m not smart enough or fair enough. I just don’t have the time to do everything justice. And I’ll finish with this, so you can sigh heavily and say, “Geez, that was nice and short, eh?” Sorry. I plead Theroux’s shorter letter as a precedence. Actually he didn’t say that someone said to me recently. So that’s on my bucket list too. I hate to see ANYONE misquoted you know, and especially Mr. Denbeaux, and it ain’t gonna happen on my watch and if it did or does, lemmee know and I’ll apologize appropriatekly and send him home version of the game for being a good sport, but I think he’s wrong, or his student(s) who told him that are. He didn’t name these or this student(s) of course. So I have no recourse but to tell you here that I’m tryin, Jeff, I’m tryin’ real hard to remain pleasant and objective, but if it’s a choice between the two, pleasant goes first. And I don’t belittle or trash, I just start making jokes with an anecdotal point that make the people who agree with my current position laugh, and that makes me feel good. I can’t count the times I’ve been told to shut up on issues where I took the other sides point of view now and then because I felt they were right.
How arrogant to think one is ALWAYS RIGHT? Must be nice. Do these people buy LOTTO tickets? Can they find my car keys? I assume they all MUST be rich, no?
So, Denbeaux is a spirited battler for what he believes in and a good one and he told me today to “do what” i “needed to do” or SOMETHING like that. But I gave him the chance to answer a very simple question and he refused to and now I have to waste my time finding out for myself. And THAT was simply rude. Maybe it’s no biggie that these people’s medical records are known. I don’t know. But we have these laws for a reason right? So is this a big deal? Not my job to decide. But it IS my job and responsibility to bring it to someone’s attention that they goofed and let them have the courtesy from me of not goofing again.
So now I gotta call the DOD, or are YOU gonna pick up that ball and run with it.
Let’s make a deal. WHy don’t we switch shirts for a couple plays? mess with their heads. YOU call Denbeaux and ask you wanna talk to that student or however many who misquoted ME, and I’ll tell the DOD they’ve got a misfortunate glitch in their system. Confuse the hell out of them and I bet we both get the answers quicker. And then? NOBODY will talk to either one of us ever again and I can get back to work trying to find some paying work which I don’t even have right now, so I don’t get a raise if this flys or sticks to the barn wall. I work for myself but I’m sorta self unemployed right now. This lack of concern about the monetary end of the end result here makes me better and smarter I think. Because the downfall of nearly everyone in this country is usually the love of money. And maybe that’s one reason why why GITMO detainees are being handled with kid gloves for an alleged role in taking the innocent lives of over 2000 citizens of 90 countries on Sep 11, 2001 and Bernie Madoff is gonna be in longer than David Hicks ever was, and I don’t know Hicks or much about him other than he was either the first or second detainee and I believe the first to be released, and I can’t buy a copy of his book in the United States of America which I think is a deplorable violation of my freedom to truth justice and Superman reruns but? It’s not my government stopping me. It’s Random House. And they wouldn’t talk to me about it. Meanwhile Random House Australia seems to be doing a Steve Erkel “did I do that?” and I quote Erkel not Random House okay? So don’t misquote me without an Aussie accent.
So I’m left to try to find a used copy or something other way to read what Hicks says. I owe it to myself. Mr. Hicks is not fond of Montgomer Granger. I believe it’s a mutual feeling. The difference is not in which of the two my opinion is that is likely telling the truth. That’s as stupid and hypocritical as don’t ask don’t tell is and also smacks of the hypocrisy of us being told not to make any judgements prior to being told, “okay folks, turn your brains back on and vote for acquital or conviction. It’s okay to talk now.” WHat a crock. Human beings judge evrything as it happens. We wouldn’t live past the age of crossing the street by ourselves the second time, thinking, “well I made it across last time so I guess I can do it again, right?”
Splat.
Lastly, we have my opinion, and my opinion is worth only WC Fields dollars. Personal stuff, opinion, conjecture, whatever you wanna call it, non essential issue s have no place in the legal system. Period.
And any twit in Congress who wastes my tax dollars pushing an idiotic bill through making it “LEGAL” for two people of the same sex to HAVE sex inside the confines of a civil bond or even a “marriage” if we can get it into the urban dictionary as gender non specific as a start, who the HELL CARES? If I see two people in love I don’t give a damn if they’re the same sex or the same color or even the same dress size and maybe it’s a marriage of convenience so they can save on their clothing budget, okay? And don’t tsk tsk me for being flippant, I’m makin’ a point here and it’s about the DESTRUCTION and decay of the American promise of the pursuit of happiness. So what good is it to make a new LAW that makes it legal to love and live with someone of the same sex as long as you’re both of legal age? I might have to check my diaries going back to before I lost my wife in 2001 but I don’t think I’m gonna find any reference to having gone for a permit of any kind when we were in the swimming pool that night one July back in the happy days? Gays have been treated terribly in the past and that’s a shame, but legislating basic human instincts is idiotic. If they want equal rights under the law they should be lobbying to take the old stupid laws off the books that attempt to tell us all what we can and can not put in our mouths because who knows where its been? Every HONEST adult I know if they admit it does and they DO know where its been, and that mighta been just a few seconds ago. I defy anyone to disagree with this without laughing or at least realizing their full of it.
Anyway, I’ve been on too long. Thanks for the DOD link. I’ll check it out. Happy holiday(s) if you;re breaking soon. Me, I’m broke so my shopping is all done. People getting inventory for Christmas. A few copies of Granger’s book I still haven’t sold, I’d give Hicks’ too but Random House won’t sell it to me. Ha. But? They’ll give me a 50% discount on every other title. They return THOSE phone calls. Business decision. I understand. I don’t like it. But I understand. Nite,
Bill Ourkins, 631-624-5692. mailto:bill@onecent.us http://freepressandmedia.com, the http://OneCent.US Group of Companies, rising in aleaxa like a shining star, stuck in a confident holding pattern losing about 8 cents a day. Ah financial stability at last. At this rate I can retire eary at the age of 92.
Wait. Manning is being hailed for a deed well done? Do I have to skip the Christmas Three Stooges Marathon AGAIN!> This is too good. I WILL be back.
Bill Purkins http://Twitter.com/OneCentDotUS
I don’t know if that’s what they were doing, but it was certainly something they did research, as a matter of record as part of MKULTRA/Artichoke/Bluebird etc.
See John Marks’ Search for the Manchurian Candidate, a classic book, in print now lo these past 35 years.
lol – you do run on, but I have to say that a lot of what you say is not foolishness. You should probably pick a single topic, and write one for the diaries here. It wouldn’t pay anymore than what you’re doing right now, but it would probably clear some blockages and let you get it of your chest. And you might get some ideas that would click on a way to get out of that hole that you and so many of us find ourselves in right now.
Best wishes for the New Year
karnak12? i do this purposefully, because it gets my press releases on page 1 of google bing and yahoo. i am a class clown but when you read my actual report it is quite dry. i am instensely sarcastic and find that if you add humor and hyperbole in areas of bloated suits who do not remember what got them the coin to purchase such fine clothes in the first place their fame is usually several decades old. i have no time for it. once i get their attention, my sentences get much more terse, and i do it while they are still laughing. my people tell me, “geez bill at least lighten up on the real news stuff and i say lighten UP? this wasnt light enough?” i also get asked to call it new media and i prefer GONZO in respect for hunter thompson, the last real political reporter this country ever had. no one remembers how he and nixon bonded over talking football on air force one for a few hours during the 72 campaign. then? they said bye bye and went back to hating one another. thanks for the kind words and the advice. i get that advice all the time though. if i did this full time? I’D be waterboarding myself in a sensory deprivation tank to see who wins. peace and merry christmas or whatever you may celebrate. be healthy and safe and happy will come in huge hairy piles if you just keep the cable channels on mute and groove on the newbunnies in their tight little elf garb. bill 631-624-5692 bill@onecent.us HELP 23,000 TANZANIAN NOMADS get a WATER TOWER built at lake victoria so they don’t have to walk 10 miles each way to get 5 or less gallons of water… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARaam90LPqk&feature=player_embedded there was THAT serious enough? we need 250 grand. Enjoying a cold bottle of spring water you paid more for a gallon than gasoline? Watch this. Then? Donate a buck, or a few sips worth to the Mashaka Foundation. http://onecent.us/WaterForTanzania/
http://my.firedoglake.com/members/karnak12/ sorry didnt read fully in a hurry today… i am doing this for nadadamting i believe i said so true i could. JEFFREY? lets talk. can i HUH? can i? i wrte GOOD when i take my time. need a FISHING editor? you can send me to the tuna hearings in madrid i think they are. never been there. wait. i dont travel anymore. YAY
now on mistaken identity? i have it from a pretty good source that most of the detainees were identified by DNA as well as retina STUFF (that word again, all encompassing)”Put that with the stuff, Lisa and c’mere and sit down, it’s time for your typing lesson, they’re getting suspicious…
and finally, mary? I ADORE MR TOOLE’S CONFEDERACY of dunces and you know the secret to the brilliance of that book? He NAILS character dialogue like a jimmy buffet song smacks you over the head. imagine if hemingway had him for punch up?
“You are large,” she said…
“Yes,” he said, I know…
Ernie? This is not sexy. Okay? Now I know YOU are getting excited, but, let’s go down to Bourbon Street and get a Lucky Dog. Find yourself a woman who lives in the Ninth ward and needs cabfare home… Then call me in the morning. If you haven’t gone native. You allergic to shellfish?
I’m sorry, but I have to ask… How can the American people be SO divided on an issue like Bradley Manning with even a congressman calling for his execution? while others are giving away their christmas cash to his defense? And what the hell are we trying these detainees OR Mr. Bradley for before the end of the WAR? The Nuremberg trials started AFTER WWII was over, remember? WHY? Because if we had lost to the Germans, the Germans would have tried and executed US. That’s goes with getting to take home the gold cup and the head (ahem) cheerleader and the other perks of being the champs until next season starts. I think there might even be something in the Geneva Concention on this? But WAIT! GITMO detainees, not guilty or guilty, are technically not even COVERED by the Geneva convention as legal combatants of war. They didn’t have costumes (oops, “UNIFORMS,” I simply MUST learn the vernacular, but SOOO many acronyms :::sigh:::)AND they did not carry their weapons openly in all cases. So they AIN’T POWS and can be held until the war is over and then if they’re not guilty 90 nations can draw straws on who has to take them.
Also, ONE detainee who is out has asked to be placed in the witness protection program. Now since it is easy to find these guys’ social security numbers, and yes, I know he’d get a new one, duh? But? Think, people. “PLEASE MAY I HAVE THE LAST FOUR DIGITS OF YOUR SSN?” And you cough it. In two or three hops? easy to figure out the rest with the right connections. its a hideous system. and the army uses SS#s for serial numbers now. as carlin said to mcveigh. “Not funny, Tim.”
Teddy Partridge December 20th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
>>Are you prepared to back up any of these claims?<>Or are you relying on the FDL author to investigate them all?<>If you’ve got a diary to write on the subject, with links and claims with evidence<>nonsense into someone else’s thread is rather disrespectful.<<
As Flip Wilson would say, "Sorry if I've been on too long. I'll write my FACTS up in Haiku for you if you give up an email address or call me. Few people do. Not implying you won't. I'm an admitted clown, but only when I see a bunch of clowns in the audience, and Jeffrey here is fighting against the tide and I sympathize with him. He's CLEARLY too hip for the room.
Hugs and fishes, Bill
When I was in Vietnam we had salt tablets and quinine pills that we took everyday. From what I’ve read mefloquine wasn’t produced until the 70s. Most of us were out of Vietnam by 1973.
actually, a number of people working for contractors will be returning to the cities you mentioned because the mercs we’re using around the world come from around the world, especially from those south AMerican countries that had their own death squads during the 80s.