Earlier this week in a 5-4 decision the High Court refused to overturn an Arizona law that allows taxpayers to receive a dollar-for-dollar state tax credit for their contributions to school scholarships even if they are for religious schools. The credit allowed is up to $500 per person or $1000 per couple. It has cost Arizona approximately $350 million since the law was enacted.
A central concern of the First Amendment was in James Madison’s word to prevent government to require taxpayers to “three pence of his property for the support of religion”.
In Arizona Christian School Tuition Organization v. Winn Geoffrey Stone says that:
“As the Supreme Court recognized more than forty years ago, as a general proposition the Establishment Clause prohibits government from using its “taxing and spending power… to favor one religion over another or to support religion in general.” Thus, the Establishment Clause forbids government to fund churches to enable them to spread their religious beliefs or to award special tax credits to individuals to reimburse them for their contributions to religious organizations.”
He and other legal scholars say that there’s a catch in that it’s been unclear whether citizens have ‘standing’ to sue over these programs as it’s difficult to prove that those bringing suit can prove they’ve suffered an ‘injury in fact’; if not it could lead to either frivolous or weak lawsuits with poor challenges which could harm the legal system.
Apparently since no particular individual would be harmed by Establishment issues, it would essentially mean that in reality no one would have standing to sue. Given that that’s a pretty unwieldy contention, Stone says:
“To solve this problem, the Supreme Court held in Flast v. Cohen in 1968 that taxpayers do have standing to challenge taxing and spending policies that violate the Establishment Clause. Until recently, federal courts at every level, including the Supreme Court, have consistently and broadly applied Flast to enable taxpayers to enforce the Establishment Clause.”
So in this case, apparently to get around Flast, the Creative Conservative Five chose to find that this in this Arizona case citizens had no standing because it didn’t involve government expenditures, but tax credits. Had the Arizona government just given the religious schools the bucks instead, citizens would have standing to sue.
Stone says:
“As Justice Elena Kagan explained in a powerful dissenting opinion, joined by Justice Breyer, Ginsburg and Sotomayor, this distinction “has as little basis in principle as it has in our precedent.” Indeed, the conservatives’ new approach “enables the government to end-run Flast’s guarantee of access to the Judiciary.” As Kagan observed, under the conservatives’ analysis, a state that wants “to subsidize the ownership of crucifixes” can now simply grant a tax credit to individuals who buy crucifixes. That program would effectively be insulated from constitutional challenge, not because it is constitutional, but because no one would be permitted to raise the question..
With their decisions in Hein and Arizona Christian School Tuition Organization, the five conservatives on the Supreme Court have thus enabled government to violate the Establishment Clause at will, by denying courts the authority to declare even unconstitutional programs unconstitutional. In so doing, they have, in Justice Kagan’s words, eviscerated “our Constitution’s guarantee of religious neutrality.”
Writing at The Cockleburr, Erwin Chemerinsky rues the Obama administration getting involved in an Establishment issue, especially one that doesn’t involve a federal law, thus didn’t require the administration’s involvement.
“Yet, the Solicitor General’s office filed a brief for the United States which argues that taxpayers lack standing to challenge a state tax program which subsidizes religious schools and that this does not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. It is exactly the brief that would have been expected from the Bush administration, but disturbing to have come from the Obama Justice Department.”
[snip]
“Since the Reagan administration, conservatives have sought to eliminate the notion of a wall separating church and state. It is sad and very troubling to see the Obama administration lending its support for this effort.” (my bold)
Nice job, guys. Somewhere Margaret Atwood is laughing in her beer, laughing at those who assured here this crap would never happen here. “Wanna bet?” she’s probably quipping again.
(Disclaimer: I’m as far from being attorney as may be possible; but church and state issues are vastly important to me. Please forgive any errors.)
(cross-posted at dagblog.com)



93 Comments

Obama fucked us again?
Woulda thunk it?
Doesn’t it seem as though Obama has adopted Bush’s perspective that the Constitution is ‘nothing but a piece of paper’?
Now, now, dear. We kinda knew he loved his Christianity during the campaign… and loved his funding of religious charities and the Prayer Breakfasts…in his mind it may be just a teensy bit Unconstitutional….; hardly enough to notice!
And really; no one wrote it up here; I checked for a couple days while I was researching and writing (slowly…)
I was just watching a three-day conversation at another place I blog about the possible interpretation of his quotes about the Warren Court being activist. Interesting comments. I’ll dig them out if I have time later. No; scratch that: I’ll make the time.
Church and State issues are enormous, IMO. This is a disaster. And Obama helped!
Here it is beach; only it was the Detroit Free Press, Oct. 27, 2008:
“Q: You voted against confirming both Justice Alito and Chief Justice Roberts (for the U.S. Supreme Court). You said you want justices who are passionate. … You taught constitutional law for 10 years, so I’m wondering if you can tell us, outside the context of the current court, what justices would you use as models for your pick?
A: Well, it depends on how far you go back. I mean, Justice (John) Marshall was pretty good … but those were some different times. There were a lot of justices on the Warren Court who were heroes of mine … Warren himself, Brennan, (Thurgood) Marshall. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that I think their judicial philosophy is appropriate for today.
Generally, the court is institutionally conservative. And what I mean by that is, it’s not that often that the court gets out way ahead of public opinion. The Warren Court was one of those moments when, because of the particular challenge of segregation, they needed to break out of conventional wisdom because the political process didn’t give an avenue for minorities and African Americans to exercise their political power to solve their problems. So the court had to step in and break that logjam.
I’m not sure that you need that. In fact, I would be troubled if you had that same kind of activism in circumstances today. … So when I think about the kinds of judges who are needed today, it goes back to the point I was making about common sense and pragmatism as opposed to ideology.
I think that Justice Souter, who was a Republican appointee, Justice Breyer, a Democratic appointee, are very sensible judges. They take a look at the facts and they try to figure out: How does the Constitution apply to these facts? They believe in fidelity to the text of the Constitution, but they also think you have to look at what is going on around you and not just ignore real life.
That, I think is the kind of justice that I’m looking for — somebody who respects the law, doesn’t think that they should be making law … but also has a sense of what’s happening in the real world and recognizes that one of the roles of the courts is to protect people who don’t have a voice.
That’s the special role of that institution. The vulnerable, the minority, the outcast, the person with the unpopular idea, the journalist who is shaking things up. That’s inherently the role of the court. And if somebody doesn’t appreciate that role, then I don’t think they are going to make a very good justice.” (my bold)
Hmmm. It seems he wants activism to run whichever way he wants, doesn’t he?
That bit of reasoning is as bad/torturous/twisted as when a Texas appeals court ruled in the DeLay case that for corporate campaign contributions checks were not the same as cash. Welcome to Texas y’all…
More Banana Republic.
He just took that “aggressive war” and “war crimes” thing a little too seriously for our more “enlightened” age.
Telling…
And money is only fungible when it’s going to someone our government doesn’t like.
The Obama administration, doing the work of the right-wing, one day at a time.
*** Obama 2012 – “Mourning In America” ***
Seems to me a “conservative” might be trying to preserve the Bill of Rights. These guys are radical right-wing statists, not conservatives. Actually, betweem this and Citizens United, I may as well save space and just call them fascists.
Like the Conflict Resolution groups help in Iraq being charged with ‘materially aiding Terrorist Groups’. Whaaaaaaat? Oh, so in-kind fungible. Cripes.
I swear, if it were just this one issue, I would still feel gob-smacked. And it’s not as though we didn’t know his administration was giving grants to religious charities. I hated it, but this is so much worse: and end run around the Establishment Clause.
I ran into the Arizona Tea Party website commenting in glee while poking into this.
Well, Evil; dunno about the terms, but I’d at a bare minimum call them Conservo-Activists. Can’t get the image of Alito and Roberts smiling out of my brain, either. Greasy smiles.
Wendy, thanks so much for bringing this in a post this way. IMO, if we want to cause this to stop dead in it’s tracks the best way is to get the figures up on which Denomination rec’d the most. There is no quicker way to get moss off of that stone than to show in print which one gets the most money. *G*
Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. It doesn’t matter which one to me, but you know that mossy stone will roll when the numbers hit the page!
POTUS Obama:
The first black American President to invade Africa.
Seconding PeasantParty. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I linked to your article on a private board I belong to. Here’s an excerpt from what one commenter wrote in response:
“Obama has taken hope and change, put them in a burlap sack and drowned them in the river like kittens.”
Obama partied with JEB! fluffing JEB!’s Failing Public School Model and Dubya’s NCLB.
Rethugs want all education to be private. They don’t want to pay for other people’s kids to go to school.
Obama wants the same thing.
Obama adopted Dubya’s GWOT, Dubya’s NCLB and The Bush Tax Cuts.
Obama is a Republican.
Front Paged – Good.
I was born in WY and we moved to AZ when I was in 2nd grade. This battle has been raging, as long as I know, since that time; 40 years ago.
That battle was quite hot when I was going to Brophy, the Jesuit highschool in Phoenix. (And Reagan appointed a schoolmate of mine’s mom, Sandra O’Connor to SCOTUS) I won a scholarship to the school, but my family still wanted a tax break for that tuition, which I always thought was double dipping and stupid, but it was lucrative.
You know what Brophy Tuition is today? $12,800 per year. That’s right, $50k for a highschool college prep education, per kid, which you can now just write off.
Try that at ASU.
Two things; First, I am an attorney, and Erwin is correct.
Secondly, there are really two constitutions at issue in that there is not only the establishment clause concern under the US Constitution, but also a very straight up prohibition of such aid under the Arizona Constitution, that arguably may also define the nature of the tax for the Establishment Clause inquiry. Arizona law was ignored. In short, there were more moving parts than most reports have related and I think there should have been a very colorable argument under the Establishment Clause as a result.
On the flip side the Court accepted the astonishing argument of the Obama Administration made through Neal Katyal, and there will likely be little left in the way of litigant access on taxation issues now under the Establishment Clause.
What is at play at root in Winn is actually fairly startling. I wrote about the Arizona tax credit debacle over a year ago, although not on constitutional analysis. There is an excellent investigative series of articles I based my post on and that are linked in it. Unfortunately, despite all the numerous awards the series garnered and some generally pretty decent staff, that paper the series was in went belly up earlier this year and the links in my post no longer appear to work. You can find most of the series on the web I imagine, especially if you have Lexis/Nexis capability, which I currently do not. It really was pretty good.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-fraud-of-gop-tax-and-school-choice-policy-shown-in-arizona/
It really is fairly dastardly in that few middle class, and hardly any poor, families participate in the program, but there are well oiled machines for the religious wealthy to exploit it. And, yes, the religious schools are at the forefront of that although there are a limited amount of non-religious charters getting in on the fun too. That was argued as a dilution of the argument that the scheme is subject to attack under Establishment Clause (what percentage of such a scheme would make it religious in nature? 50% 70% 90%?)
This particular Arizona law and tax scheme is heavily religious in scope, but I don’t have the exact percentage. The scheme emanated out of the Goldwater Center and another national conservative think tank I cannot currently recall, and the purpose was to bust open financing for religious schools and the Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction, who was a nationally known leading charter school advocate, and wackjob religious nut Congressman named Trent Franks (he was a former state legislator, working on religious causes when they started and in the process got elected to Congress) set out to make Arizona the test sled for this policy. And now they have succeeded not only in doing that, but castrating the Establishment clause as well. Hell of a job.
Through the Looking Glass. It’s no wonder that so many of us feel such a sense of dislocation and…fear for our kids and grandkids,, enough. I have some nightmares, I confess.
Which of us are twisted now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKIQSo7JbKQ
Well now; it may have been anyone, but the irony is sorta…not so much Peace Medal-ish, is it?
And above all, Obama has been careful, like my nasty Grandmother, to go the extra mile to pretend, “no partiality shown.” In this country, he gave the first SOTU since 1968 or something in which the poor and poverty weren’t even mentioned. Bankrupt heart, bankrupt politics.
Heh. Money isn’t fungible after all.
Even Palin knew about ‘fungible.’
I’ll try to dig it up, Peasant; I did see some of it while I was poking around, but there was some terminology I wasn’t quite familiar with included. But how will it change anything to know? This is pretty ‘settled law’ now, isn’t it? The circuit court ruling standing and all?
“A central concern of the First Amendment was in James Madison’s word to prevent government to require taxpayers to “three pence of his property for the support of religion”.” ????
My memory gets worse each day – but I seem to recall that the First Amendment did not separate Church and State in the manner that Madison wished. Indeed it was more about a move, requested by the Baptists, to prevent the state taxing folks to support the Episcopal (former C of E ) church – and indeed at the state level that support by the state of the Episcopal church continued for many many decades after Washington’s election in states like Virgina. Indeed it was never intended to refer to all religion as banned from the public arena – it was about the state favoring one religion over others.
It was only in the 1960′s that we got the separate Church and State in everything approach.
As to the reasoning in this decision, I agree with the poster – it does not makes a great deal of sense to distinguish cash paid out by the state from cash not taken in by the state because you count a contribution to a church dollar for Dollar against what is owed to the state. But then the 1960′s decision went in the atheist direction of trying to remove religion from all public activities even when government involvement was minimal in that public activity – and the logic there went beyond what was previously thought to be the correct interpretation of the founders intent. I’m just glad I am not a lawyer trying to claim legal decisions are either consistent or logical :-)
It all does seem to add up day by day, appointment by appointment, amicus brief by amicus brief, doesn’t it, beach? Corporate whistle-blowers? Ftttttt! And on and on… We suffer, the Republic suffers; can we keep it? Can we gain it back? I do hope so.
So…suddenly Prosser has 10,000 missing votes.
STRIKE
Our over-the-air teevee finally got C-Span once it went digital. I watched Arne a few times, and was just stymied by his laissez-faire ignorance and adherence to NCLB, test scores, Michelle Rhee, and vouchers and charter schools.
Good grief. What’s left to take away from us? Obama’s taking out the middle man from college loans was maybe good; don’t know in fact how it’s working. I do hope well, and that it’s not like HAMP: good on paper, crap in actuality.
Thanks for the personal story; it’s illuminating, Kelly. How aware of you to be objecting in principle to the ‘double-dipping’ at that age.
I went to a semi-private HS on the KSU campus in Kent, OH. Papa wanted his girls educated well. But the tuition wasn’t prohibitive to at least careful middle/upper middle class folks. It’s not right, though, that all American children can’t receive top-notch educations for free.
He’s not black. Not unless you accept the racist metric that as much as 1/16th part black made you black. Truth be told, Obama was raised by a white mother and white grandparents. That makes him a white Republican that convinced the country he was a black Democrat. And while that deserves a round of applause, it does not deserve a second term.
And now for something completely different: The Medicare reform proposed by Paul Ryan looks a lot like Obama-care. So, instead of Medicare as a model for a successful single-payer program, we have Obama-care as the roadmap to the dismantling of Medicare. Now, don’t we all feel a little stupid?
Thanks for the information, Bmaz; I don’t have Lexis/Nexis capability, but someone at FDL must; the diaries would be helpful to all of us.
I read that over 90% of the tax credits were issued to religious schools; I’ll try to find it again. Goldwater Center, eh? Oh — the names that continue to haunt us.
Could you say more about the Arizona law that should have prohibited this, and why those who brought the suit might not have explored that, if they didn’t, in your opinion?
Am I reading it right that you’re saying that “there will likely be little left in the way of litigant access on taxation issues now under the Establishment Clause” means that it’s settled law now?
And by God; you ARE an attorney, Bmaz. Thanks ever so much for your input. This is hard news.
Palin thought we were talikng about ‘fungi’, though; she liked shrooms with her mooseburgers.
The litany of outrages is becoming so long and well, so outrageous; that I plum forgot about the nobel peace prize.
Good catch wendydavis, Orwell’s 1984 has become prosaic at best.
“No tax shall be laid or appropriation of public money made in aid of any church, or private or sectarian school ….” Arizona Constitution, Art. 9, § 10.
But the US Supreme Court basically obviated that too by considering the law to contemplate citizen money as opposed to tax/public money. It is an absurd finding when it is money that is directly on its way to the state coffers when it is diverted. And, yes, I think this puts a healthy dent in taxpayer standing under Flast v. Cohen.
The Wiki says that in the 1947 case Everson v. the Board of Education that:
“Justice Hugo Black held,
“The “establishment of religion” clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect “a wall of separation between church and State.”
The New Jersey law was upheld, for it applied “to all its citizens without regard to their religious belief.” After Everson lawsuits in several states sought to disentangle public moneys from religious teaching, the leading case being the 1951 Dixon School Case out of New Mexico.[16]
The Jefferson quotation cited in Black’s opinion is from a letter Jefferson wrote in 1802 to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, that there should be “a wall of separation between church and state.” Critics of Black’s reasoning (most notably, former Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist) have argued that the majority of states did have “official” churches at the time of the First Amendment’s adoption and that James Madison, not Jefferson, was the principal drafter. However, Madison himself often wrote of “perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters” (1822 letter to Livingston), “line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority… entire abstinence of the government” (1832 letter Rev. Adams), and “practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States” (1811 letter to Baptist Churches).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment
But yes; how is a tax credit different than ‘a government expenditure’? Clever (or not) semantic games, I guess. I will say that public schools are quite upset, as once again it takes money away from public schools that need it desperately. A sorry situation, and proponents believe that public schools ‘had it coming’. (Those Teachers’ Unions, you know…)
Not a good way to fix the education system, IMO, letting wealthy religious have their way, though the economics aren’t the primary reason it’s a messed up ruling.
Thanks, Isis; I’ll go read. Voting machine error, I’ll bet. ;o)
They can essentially run the bank, now; it’s not as though it will be some arcane new decision. Sorry to be so graphic, but I imagine many are positively drooling over the funding possiblilies for religious institutions. First step seemed to have been the decision over Obama’s faith-based initiatives a couple years ago; didn’t write any of that to keep this shorter.
lets see..no jobs, no money, no end to wars but we all can pray for blessings from the sainted Obama! Well it is my prayer for real change!
And thanks to Management for front-paging this so Bmaz could add to it.
Thanks for the heads up – I thought the decision was 1960 – but as you point out it was 1947 and depended on a letter written by an early president – not on law – indeed it was not much different from the right wing “original intent via contemporary letters” approach that Scalia uses – just a different bias.
I do not know the correct decision – the effect if reversed is to have more funds available for a tax cut for the rich – or even for schools in we are lucky. On the other hand in many communities where I have been, the religious schools take a massive piece of the burden of education cost off the setting of the local real estate tax rate, and the setting of state aid to local governments for schools.
If I start a Muslim school in AZ, can I get the tax credits?
Or a Catholic one for Hispanics?
I’m going to have to go with ‘government should not fund religion period’, no matter the effect on local or state property taxes or whichever mill levies, etc. fund schools. Sorry to be immovable on this one, paupau. ;o)
Yup. I’m gonna have to go look up the denominations; I sure forget where I saw it. I have vacant sectors in my brain’s hard drive.
Well, plus the five Supremes…
Anyone who votes for Obama in 2012 is an idiot and an asshole.
Agreed, fervently.
First, the disclaimers:
1. I know that it will never happen, and
2. I know that we have many other problems to fix,
but…
Doesn’t Congress have the power to define who has standing in any given issue before the courts? This decision could be reversed legislatively. (I know, I know…just dreamin’)
Wendy, here is a link to the article in my post I described above. The full series had more pages and many data charts etc, but the meat of it is here:
http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/student-expenses-financing-tuition-fees/12615078-1.html
So I found a newspaper that investigate the program; this is loaded with info:
http://eastvalleytribune.com/special_reports/rigged_privilege/article_7debd2e5-d000-5aed-b813-a0d252377755.html
Yarborough, a state legislor and also the head of the huge Christian Tuition Organization helped pass the original law in 1999, then worked to expand it. Turns out that no one watchdogs it, and it’s rife with abuse.
90% of the money collected was to go toward scholarships and …it often didn’t. Racial demographics didn’t change over the years except for three Catholic schools, if I remember right.
It get a little fun when you read that even fetuses are eligible: parents can sign up their fetuses, bank the credits for years until their kids need the scholarships. Wow; that is astounding!
The investigation has shown STO CEOs using the money for cars, etc., there is no financial need clause, and even as the scholarship money rolled in, the schools jacked their tuitions up.
WOW. Missed this earlier.
OK.
He’s not black.
I’m a racist.
And you’re not a moron.
Got it? Got it.
Thanks so much, Bmaz. You might want to get whatever you can archived here for safekeeping. I did find a link and posted it just below from the East Valley Tribune’s investigation into the program, and Yarborough’s (and others’) craven and self-serving involvement. Quite the scam there.
Vacant sectors provide room for even more bad news. But good news: Maybe you just have some *corrupted* sectors!
(Just a joke!! I know that this is a serious thread. I couldn’t resist.)
Only if the Constitution were amended, I’d think, and then: why would Congress do it? I’ll bet not too many are ginned up about this ruling at any rate, and amending the Constitution is enormously difficult. We just hoped this Court wouldn’t be quite so activist, no? ;o)
LOL! Likely!
Synoia, I found the info and posted it below.
One gains a much deeper understanding of the Establishment Clause when one begins to recognize Capitalism as a religion.
Then it becomes clear that far from separating Church and State, the Constitution *mandates the unity of Church and State* – a Capitalist theocracy.
The Establishment Clause is thus seen as our Capitalist theocracy’s First Commandment: “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.”
It’s the State religion’s version of a Non-Compete Clause.
Nicely done, Vigilance! Depressing, cynical, but well-played.
There will be many millions of as*holes by that reckoning. Too many Americans asleep at the wheel. There are times I almost envy their utter ignorance of what’s going on.
They sure got their money outta this guy, didn’t they? Eroding the Establishment Clause, helping the GOP regain the House, and assisting in the destruction of Social Security. A white Republican couldn’t have done any of that, but that was the whole reason a Black Democrat was selected.
Investigative info posted waaaay downthread, Peasant.
I reread your diary. As you explain, the SC today did not reverse Flast v. Cohen, which recognized standing for taxpayers in cases involving the Establishment clause. Instead the majority distinguished between a tax expenditure and a tax credit.
My non-lawyerly understanding is that Congress can legislate standing, even though it has mostly been set by judicial precedent until now.
Yes, I agree that the Congress is very unlikely to address this issue – hence my disclaimers. I guess we just have to wait for the return of the Warren Court.
Does anyone want to resurrect FDR’s court-packing scheme?
Zounds. Yikes. Egad.
This next sentence is not intended in any way to be a defense of Obama, but
BO’s two SC appointments were dissenters in this decision.
Otherwise, I agree.
Sorry wendydavis.
But…… ahh well, we’ll just let the apology suffice.
He checked “black” on the census form.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/04/nation/la-na-obama-census4-2010apr04
He leads like a Republican.
Well, depressing is an individual judgement, but I don’t think it’s at all cynical. I think it’s helpful, like finally getting the correct medical diagnosis, one that at last explains all of one’s previously mysterious symptoms.
It’s the correct diagnosis, difficult as it may be to accept, that allows us to understand and thus actually treat our condition.
So try seeing the U.S. as a Capitalist theocracy. All sorts of things suddenly make sense, and all sorts of other things become easily predictable.
Fun exercise: take a typical Wall Street Journal editorial screed and replace “the Market” with “God/Allah” “Bernanke” with “His Holiness/The Ayatollah” etc. You’ll end up with a religious diatribe more than the equal of any from the countries the U.S. projectively excoriates.
Less fun exercise: read history and note how most theocracies end.
Don’t worry, Barry will give a speech and make it all better.
Molly Ivins once described GHW Bush as a toady. That word hit me the other day as a perfect description of Obama, toady.
Does anyone else see Holder as a competent lawyer chosen for his dependable inability to stand up to power?
That’s it!! Crikey, it was gone from all my original links to the EVT, and the Tribune search tool did not produce it, but that is indeed it. Nice job.
Ay yi yi! You mighta given me the ‘Tribune’ hint, dear! Some piece had mentioned an investigation by a newspaper, so I hunted like a hound for a coon! Wore my fingers to the bone and my brain to the skull lookin’! Couldda been watchin’ American Idol the whole time instead… ;o)
Seriously sick program and a) no wonder the taxpayers not in the program are peeved, and b) the Obama administration looks worse, and c) wonder if the Supremes had the info. Arrrgggh!
Well I did assume you were stretching it a bit to get to your conclusion, I admit, to make the point. Regardless, it was shocking to contemplate; concluding you’re *right* is closer this morning. My stars.
I haven’t a clue about Congress’s ability to legislate standing, but here the end run around Flast seems plenty for now. Some of the conservative sites’ pundits were irked that they didn’t just overturn the sucker (greedy); maybe they didn’t want to be accused of ‘overreach’ all in one fell swoop. /s
I read some some remarks Scalia made about that, but now I’ve forgotten how they went.
Yeah, I don’t know that color had anything to do with it, but he does seem to be pretty compliant on too many issues. I’m trying to picture the chain of communication that led his administration to support this shit, and it’s really not coming to me.
And yes, twocents, on his appointees being dissenters. Will Kennedy ever break away from the other four again? Looks bad.
I see Holder like this:
http://www.jodysgarage.com/images/funny/griffith/andy-floyd.jpg
Damn; I miss Molly. Obama’s other choice (besides his economic team and military choices) that has been a disaster is Arne Duncan. A boring, useful idiot, IMO.
This may be where a letter writing campaign would be useful. Although we’re taught in grade school that the SC is above public pressure, it or some of its members may not be immune to public opinion. I vaguely recall (MY corrupted hard drive this time) that the business-oriented SC that opposed FDR turned around, either after his wildly unpopular court-packing proposal or after some other event that I don’t remember. Anyway, my point is that maybe 30 or 40 pounds of constructively critical correspondence delivered to Kennedy might broaden his mind.
Ack! You expect any of us how to remember to write an actual letter,? On a-a-actual p-p-paper? Seriously, when I wrote a few bits on my Christmas cards it looked like ~~o*~.
(Hen-scratch)
I love your hope that he may be redeemable.
Looks like he may be in for a bit of a rough time over Kagan and the SG memos; see Bmaz’s diary. Ugh.
Paper? More like a ball of clay, to be molded any way that fits your needs.
but the Obama-bots see nothing wrong here, they elected him to do the thinking.
Wendy, according to my property tax bill, education is not free, it has been paid for by taxpayers continuously. Makes no difference if you use it or not, you pay for it.
I see no distinction between cash given or debts forgiven, it adds up to the same amount in your bank account.
I agree with Eternal’s description. Our economy is being run like a religion, based on assumptions that do not change regardless of the evidence. The tax code is full of religious bias.
I think that when the members of the court do not follow the law, then it is time for public intervention, as a justice who does not follow the law is of no value, and is refusing to perform his duty. It should be grounds for impeachment.
Of course you’re right, but it should be free. In CO education is funded through property taxes, but I think I’ve heard that’s not the case in every state. (And I am done googling for now!) ;o)
The capitalism as a religion idea is hugely relevant because one can immediately see how the general thrust ongoing towards privatization of everything, schools, the military, health care picks up the shreds of morality and applies these shreds to the ‘renovated’ system. One ‘must’ conform to that system because it would be immoral not to do so in a democracy where the rules have been supposedly decided by a majority of the citizens.
The quotation from Obama earlier in the thread positions him clearly as a relativist, and that is something we do not need ever in a President. His relativism was couched in the language of adaptability to compromise, but instead what it has produced is more of the same amoral and relativistic landslide towards mammon which will leave the rocks that are the rich folks trembling on the edge of a precipice.
Morality is something most of the rest of us hold very dear, and it is connected strongly to a sense of what is just. This man apparently, for whatever reason, never developed this talent native to most of us. He’s willing to turn religious institutions into just another bunch of buckmakers, part of the fabric of corporatism which has clothed him these lo now nearly four years.
This emperor has even less clothes than the last one. We don’t have Molly incarnate at present, but she’s sure tapping us all on the shoulder and urging us not to be silent.
Thanks for an excellent diary.
Reminds me Alan ‘I-made-a-mistake’ Greenspan. Absurd faith without the evidence to support it.
Agreed, but how far are the ‘Impeach Scalia and Thomas’ movements going? The third and fourth Koch Brothers…
I swear, there’s a hair-on-fire issue everywhere we look.
I want my Soma!
Welcome, juliana, and thanks for your take on this.
I think his relatavist language also was useful in getting him elected; he could always find wiggle room, as he did after the Warren Court quote, and the ‘redistribute the wealth’ quote from earlier in his life. He did go back to that one speaking to Joe the Plumber, and I applauded him. The shitstorm afterward served to make sure that he never said anything like that again, but made him court the business community even harder.
You may be right about Molly-tapping; I keep getting sucked into writing diaries and blogs instead of other writing I’m trying. Too much to illuminate in the political world I guess. Can’t let the bastards get away with it. ;o)
WENDY!!!!!
Am I reading that link correctly? I’ve gone over it again to make sure the anger and glaze in my eyes were not obscuring a few details. Are they ALL CATHOLIC? No, Protestant or Jewish schools are mentioned, right?
OMG! No wonder the Pope and Cardinals wear bling daily!
PEASANT!!!! (grin)
Now I read more about Xian schools: Grace Community, Chandler Valley, Gilbert Xian, etc., but didn’t click the ‘more’ link. I may have read that the Catholic ones were the only ones at which Hispanic ratios improved. Dunno for sure; but around here it’s the Christianist ones who are bigger on private schools: Evangelicals, etc.
Now I really don’t know how many Jews live in Arizona, but…you could google to find out. If anyone needs a scholarship in Scottsdale, you can be sure they are in the employ of the wealthy (how’s that for bias?)
Don’t the Pope and Cardinals wear bling and use gold chalices because they’re…oh; never mind. ;o)
Thank you.
Because they are followers of St. Paul. Yep. As we know from childhood and close study of the Gospel Paul had a thorn in his side that he simply could not overcome. 8-)
Ah, that Paul…the one who wrecked it all by making a church around him? ;o)
Google Saaaaaaaaays:
Arizona in 2009:
Catholicism – 25%
Evangelical Christian – 23%
Non-Religious / Unaffiliated – 22%
Protestantism – 15%
Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) – 4%
Judaism – 1.6%
Others – 11%
Its settled then. We are moving to Scotland. If I have to live in a nation that has an “established” church, then my Jewish children and family and I would rather live with the Free Church of Scotland. Where Social Justice is still at the core of that Church’s identity, where feeding the orphan, the widow, and the stranger in the land is still a readily accepted concept. A country where Penology is applied to the Criminal Justice System (which means that the most violent juvenile offenders are considered the greatest victims, where victim/criminal overlaps, and where Social Reform is seen as the first step to reducing Crime, instead of a Punitive/Vengeful system. In fact, the entire concept is one of Reformation/Rehabilitation in lieu of punishment/revenge).
I can live with the Church of Scotland. I can’t live with the C Street Family and the Prosperity Gospel of Ayn Rand/Billy Graham/Regency University cartel.