This diary is an attempt to clear up possible misapprehensions, and get the distinction out into the Google cache as a reference, and a few people I will send it to. If it’s all old news to you, please at least watch the video at the end; it’s fun as all giddy-up. ;o)
By now it has become an article of faith that #OWS will not be coopted, and that the democracy and justice movement protestors are far too savvy to allow it to happen. At general assemblies all over the nation, it’s been explained to candidates, elected officials, and representatives of band-aid policy fixes that they are not welcome to piggy-back on Occupy to further their agendas, and must wait their turns in the stack to speak.
At its core, it’s a movement that is about fair v. unfair that sees clearly that the operating governmental system is rigged, inherently corrupt, and can no longer be fixed from the inside, regardless of which of the two legacy parties are being considered. To wit: Occupy knows that both parties serve the Oligarchy, and are enslaved to first getting elected, then staying in power, and sell their votes to the highest bidder, and that includes purchasing plum committee assignments that can further enhance their chances to reap millions as they use the revolving door to sit on boards of multinationals or become lobbyists to the uber-wealthy who create policy to enrich themselves at the expense of ordinary Americans.
Occupy understands that the insane levels of concentrated wealth, thus power, underpins the reason that the government is no longer responsive to us, and permits a system that pretends to offer choices to voters, but is at its core a disgusting performance of Red v. Blue theatrical distraction that serves to keep us from discussing real solutions to the problems facing America.
OWS has been exploring as fully as possible how to create a system of more horizontal, non-hierarchical decision-making process within local Occupies. It’s a cumbersome process, and still evolving, but we all have high hopes that it can be translated into a more useful model representing all voices one day. OWS is working outside the electoral system, in other words, not hoping *fix it*.
Most of us on these boards likely believe that outside groups have gotten this message, and I suppose I did, too. But I was recently given a wake up call by some very good and politically dedicated people in our area who have organized and are closely allied with MoveOn.org, and their political action and educational events, like this one. Local groups like in our county may understand the differences between OWS and MoveOn, but that MoveOn has appropriated the ‘We are the 99%’ caused my antennae to hum for a couple different reasons.
One is that I googled the single sentence motto above, and many of the hits went to MoveOn pages announcing Occupy news, indicating a possible alliance or conflation of the two groups. Reason two is that a nearby town’s Occupy protestors seem to correspond in part to the same MoveOn local activist organization.
The sentence ‘We are the 99%’ may not be proprietary, but to most, would surely signify ‘#OWS’; a brand, if you will.
Of course, it’s absolutely correct that a person could be involved in both, but as individuals, not speaking or acting as Occupy protesters. If the MoveOn groups, for instance, protest at a Republican’s Congressional offices, but not at the Democrat’s office as Occupy protestors, it dilutes the message inherent within the democracy movement, and allows Dems a free pass, and that’s counterproductive to the movement. George Soros used his millions to create MoveOn as a progressive arm of the Democratic Party, and as such is antithetical to massive change, revolutionary change in America, which is exactly what OWS stands for., and acts as a foil against the necessary participation that is key to an effective uprising and sweeping civil disobedience supporters of OWS believe is the only tool left in our toolbox by now.
Too often mainstream media have painted Occupy as ‘the liberal answer to the Tea Party movement’, and it seems that MoveOn, at least in the past, and many politicians have sought to usurp the burgeoning Occupy power partially because of that basic misunderstanding, which the young man at Zucotti Park in the video eloquently tries to dispel.
More and more discussion are now happening concerning the alliances that the most activists groups can and should make, based on some core beliefs, and being willing to set aside some cultural wedge issues that have served to divide in trumped-up fear and loathing, as we kick back against the Oligarchy and Vulture Capitalism that’s stolen our democracy out from under us, and robbed us of our economic futures, social safety net, and civil rights. The link to this discussion about ‘OWS and Forging Common Cause’ here at My.fdl will interest new readers.
Again: MoveOn and its adherents must understand that the 99% are not progressives, putative progressives, liberals, Democrats…they are all of us who understand the core of what’s wrong in our country, and OWS must not be seen in any way as a ‘Lefty’ movement as some would have it.
Googling for more information, I found this video showing an event in Atlanta at which Occupy and MoveOn joined forces to make demands of Obama in several policy areas, which is again, contra to the movement.
Just in twenty googling-minutes, I came up with many examples of fighting against MoveOn’s co-optation moves, here, here, and here are a few. Here is MoveOn’s page disavowing its attempt at the co-optation. I’ll refrain from comment.
From washingtonsblog.com:
“David DeGraw – one of the primary Wall Street protest organizers – just sent me the following email:
Top MoveOn leaders / executives are all over national television speaking for the movement fully appreciate the help and support of MoveOn, but the MSM is clearly using them as the spokespeople for OWS. This is an blatant attempt to fracture the 99% into a Democratic Party organization. The leadership of MoveON are Democratic Party operatives. they are divide and conquer pawns. For years they ignored Wall Street protests to keep complete focus on the Republicans, in favor of Goldman’s Obama and Wall Street’s Democratic leadership.
If anyone at Move On or Daily Kos would like to have a public debate about these comments, we invite it. Please help us stop this divide and conquer attempt. [snip] Everyone’s trying to cash in on the courage and conviction of the Wall Street protesters.
People are trying to associate Occupy Wall Street with their pet projects, in the same way that advertisers try to associate the goodwill of the Super Bowl, NBA playoffs, World Series or Olympics with their product.
But I hear from OWS organizers that the protesters come from totally diverse political affiliations. Many protesters support Ron Paul, many like Obama, others are for other parties or candidates or don’t vote at all.
The protesters themselves are having none of it, tweeting today: We don’t want to be the democratic tea party or liberal tea party. We want to be our own movement separate of any political affiliation.
The two main challenges [facing the protesters are]: (1) An attempt by both the Democratic and Republican parties to co-opt it (see this, this and this). [snip]
By Dredd’s definition, MoveOn needs to be inoculated against ‘the germ theory of Government’, IMO, as should Occupy the Dream, which I so joyously welcomed to the movement, possibly ahead of time, according to Glen Ford at blackagendareport.com. Only time will tell how that alliance works out.
For any of you unfamiliar with the site, the authors are sincerely pissed at Obama, and all he has failed to do for blacks and the poor, and for waging vicious wars in the name of Greedy Empire, prosecuting whistleblowers, signing the horrific abusive-to-civil-and-human rights NDAA, and more.
I’ve written this diary so there is another source in the Google/Bing caches speaking to attempts of MoveOn to co-opt the movement. It’s all a bit of a sticky wicket, but clear distinctions need to made, IMO, as well as Occupy protests needing to call out to the Elitist Democratic establishment at every opportunity that they are serving the Feudal Overlords, too, and that we mean to cause a major reset to the system with all nonviolent means possible, which in the spring will mean general worker strikes, hopefully further boycotts of the TBTF banks, death-dealing businesses, and more.
I’m mindful that the tone of this diary might seem scolding, while I’d intended it more as educational. In the spirit of loving-kindness, I’d like to offer as an ending one of the most fantastic and funny Occupy videos I’ve seen yet. It’s an invitation to participate in OWS, and just hilariously sung to a Donna Summer tune. Who could have thought someone could have succeeded so well with a bloomin’ disco tune, LOL?
Stay strong everyone, love all those you can, and create community solutions whenever possible. We need to be creative and innovative in our quest for a better world.



58 Comments

Awhile back a bunch of Move onners came to join OT in a march, and I got caught by one of them sayin’ something snarky about Obamacrats to a fellow Tucson Occupier, and then this clown really got all up in my face. The only thing that stopped me from knocking him down was that I was able to weigh the impact of the violence occurring on an Occupy site, and that I had just started trying to facilitate Occupy Supply as a liaison.
But I’m sorry wendydavis, solidarity and inclusivity be damned, listening to disco is a bridge too far.
I early voted by mail a week ago for Newt Gingrich thereby fulfilling my duties as a newly registered Republican, my thought being that he would be most likely to precipitate a revolution should he actually get elected……this being before the Santorum trifecta occurred. I will of course vote Green or other 3rd besides Libertarian in the General.
And beginning this week I find myself the recipient of emails from Libertarians who claim to support Occupy, and want me to vote for Gary Johnson. Must have gotten my email address from a Republican list, and I don’t know how they figured out to play to Occupy.
Don’t think any are happy with the resulting exchanges, they all had glowing things to say about corporations, and seemed to believe our democracy was alive and well and that voting would “repair” all. They got pounded as a result. So much for building bridges. I tried……I really did.
Rec’d
Forgot to mention…..all three of the Libertarian emails I’ve received have also coopted the phrase “We are the 99%”.
If nothing else, we have definitely changed the dialogue in just 4 months……..all the Catholic Church, religious freedom folderol being allowed to dominate the media at present notwithstanding.
‘Forgot to mention…..all three of the Libertarian emails I’ve received have also coopted the phrase “We are the 99%”. …which means it’s not just MoveOn, but those are the folks I mean, and meant, to reach with this diary. I remember discussions at many Occupies alluding to MoveOn figuring they could walk in, not wait in the stack as individuals, and sorta…reign supreme. I wonder if this new stuff is a an end run around some of that. To say that if it’s so, I don’t care for it, would be an understatement.
I hear you say that you tried, but there seriously are many on the right who think that multinationals’ money have hijacked the system, and that power is too concentrated, though many want to limit government, most of us want to have government work well for all of us, sustainably, yada yada…
But come on! Ya can’t even find the video great and funny? Lord luv a duck, I didn’t think disco made anyone want to bang their head into the nearest wall more than I; and I loved it dearly. Could not stop laughing for a bit. ;o) Really: ‘we’re off our meds, we’re watchin’ Ted’? LOL!
Gary Johnson was one of those New Mexicans ya kinda hated to love on some issues; so he actually could be an OWS supporter, however far that reaches otherwise.
The ‘I tried…I really did’…is making me larf, too. Thanks, Robert; now go play the video again, LOL! But, good choice on not poppin’ someone. I admit I thought about whackin’ a troll with my crutch at Occupy Mancos; he seriously would not leave when I asked him to…twice, lol!
And hell’ I got a call from the Santorum Christianists on caucus day…as an Independent; they musta called everyone, ergo: his win in Colorado. Ay yi yi.
OH, I do love the song! I sent an e-mail to Move-On when they first started to try the co-opt of OWS. Move-On is made up of Obamabots and has no right to USE Occupy. But they will if they can get away with it. Thanks, Wendy.
Isn’t it fun, Twain? Made me laugh so hard; I just stumbled upon it (pun not intended) looking for the MoveOns-crash-Occupy events. ;o)
I think their organization got heavy push-pack as you gave thus their ‘clarification page’. But that aside, they may still pushing it, or not correcting any misapprehensions…
Stay well, dear Twain, and thanks for stopping by; I always love seeing your name on my threads.
“Lord luv a duck, I didn’t think disco made anyone want to bang their head into the nearest wall more than I”; I’d challenge you but my head is hurting from the so called foreclosure settlement. :->)
The video is a chuckle at the very least.
I wonder if there is any mass movement that won’t be “co-opted” by some org until the house of cards completely falls apart. (Go Greeks !!)
I keep thinking about the Mayan’s 12/21/2012 epoch change and what might happen. Wouldn’t surprise me that the Presidential election gets decide in the HOuse.
MoveOn is evil. They’ve been doing everything they can to co-opt OWS for the Democrats from day one.
Here in Memphis, they first tried to bully us, saying we were nothing without the Democratic party. Then they threatened to copyright the words “Occupy Memphis”. Then they did it! And then they started trying to create a new, different, MoveOn sponsored Occupy Memphis thing.
But nobody showed up besides one of our guys who was just there to see if their ploy had worked! ha!
But yeah, beware of MoveOn. I honestly think the recent crackdowns are the result of the Dem Party getting frustrated with an inability to channel the movement into some OFA thing.
Wendy. Still mulling over the issue of nonviolent tactics vs. confrontational and destructive tactics. Michael Albert’s article at Znet, “Violence begets defeat or Too much Pacifism?” is worth a read. Unfortunately, there was no link available. He asks the following questions when evaluating tactics, so I thought I would share his thinking here:
“With any tactic we can usefully ask:
What are its effects on those who utilize it?
What are its effects on those it seeks to pressure?
What are its effects on the those protestors seek to reach out to?
What are its effects on enduring movement organization and culture?”
ROFLMAO
Moveon.borg tried to co-opt Occupy Minnesota for the Democratic Party as well.
They failed. Miserably.
Thank God.
Fuck MoveOn..They are a Corporate Progressive org,they cater to the wealthy.People who tout MOveOn as progressive are the Corporate progressives like Rachel Maddow,EdShultz,Keith Olberman,Rhandi Rhodes & Bill Press etc,etc.
AS pointed out above,MoveOn was setup by Soros to give the Corporate touters more leverage over ordinary people.Do you really think Soros,a billionaire creep cares about ordinary people,this guy made is money off the backs of ordinary people suffering.
However,unlike many of the super wealthy,Soros understands that he will at least pretend he cares about the welfare of ordinary Americans,it’s a way to soften the blow,he knows full well that discontent can be a troubling experience for the wealthy.
Any org that trys to potray BClinton as savior to ordinary Americans ought to give you an idea how fucking creepy their agenda is and whom they represent.
Just turned the video on again; still cracks me up, lol!
Agree on ‘any mass movement, etc…’; as I said, it was *this* organization’s doing it I meant to explore, since it seemed possible relevant here. Hoped it wouldn’t be waste of time, but at least folks are havin’ some fun.
Oooh…dunno anything about the newer version of the Mayan prophecy…wanna say? But I really liked what the new physics are sayin’; I figure it gives us a sporting chance. Lemme go find the diary. Long, and too long, but fun. Think I put it up while you were gone…mebbe ill?
If nothin’ else, you’ll LOVE the John Trudell video. And do take heed of my warnings, okay? ;o)
http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2012/02/01/these-are-dark-days-we-can-get-to-the-light%E2%80%A6together/
Hmmm. That’s heavy news, Athena. Copyrighting? Can’t think that could have been possible, not to mention not worth the trouble.
But thanks for the perspective. Guess I was wondering if they’d quit doing stuff like that.
Thanks, TomThumb. I’ve read a lot of different pieces that dairy, too; even stuck some on the word.doc I used for it, mebbe stuck some at the end of the post. I’ll try to remember to look, and bring them if I can find them, lol! Question #2 is unusually reflective, isn’t it, and one I’ve not seen asked. Good on Michael Albert.
Reminds me of hotdog bringing in the Nietzsche quote to remind us; hmmm.
Oh, you doughty Minnesotans! ‘Miserably’, lol!
MoveOn is a sleazy, undemocratic organization that is little more than a front for the Democratic Party.
I left MoveOn in 2008 when they offered their Hobson’s choice, push poll between Hillary and Obama.
MoveOn projects a pretense of being directed by its membership; nothing could be further from the truth.
You can read a detailed discussion of just how sleazy the organization is throughout my responses to this thread.
If you’re a MoveOn member who believes you’ve invested in something beyond the perverted duopoly, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks, BMcGarth; I agree all the way, but I’d make a tweak: Organizations like that are also designed to keep people thinking only ‘incremental gains’ are possible, therefore excuse Obama and the Dems as ‘trying, but oh, sooo hamstrung’.
Way back, during the times that this administration was killing absolutely every piece of meaning reform, I was incredulous that Obama supporters simply wouldn’t allow themselves to see it. And these were folks who had the entire web at their disposals for long periods of the day.
Clinton. Now there’s a man who exemplifies this; so tragic he’s fooled so many people around the world. Chelsea ran the roundtable on philanthropy in Davos this year. My stars; she’ll be runnin’ for Prez one day…unless we go to the Swiss model, which I favor. Try to get back to electing leaders who really are ‘servants of the people’; quaint idea, ennit? ;o)
Thank you for the link, welshT. Nice to see you here; I was just askin’ someone about you the other day. Seldom Seen these days; I hope you are well; almost emailed ya.
And who, we would ask, knows more about ‘barking up right or wrong trees’ than a welshTerrier, eh wot? ;o)
Hillary or Obama. Sigh.
I had invested some energy in a relatively new site that has filled up with so many I’ve known for so long. Sadly, I’ve come to see it as a dead-end. In response, I suppose I’ve chosen to lay low and recharge my batteries.
Too, I am embroiled in all manner of local madness that has forced me to do an extensive amount of writing over the past month or so to make my case. My local activism has devoured me. Perhaps a successful end is in sight.
I miss the headier days of just FDL’ing around.
I greatly appreciate your thinking of me.
You say“George Soros used his millions to create MoveOn as a progressive arm of the Democratic Party, and as such is antithetical to massive change, revolutionary change in America, which is exactly what OWS stands for., and acts as a foil against the necessary participation that is key to an effective uprising and sweeping civil disobedience supporters of OWS believe is the only tool left in our toolbox by now.”
No.
According to an article in the Washington Post dated March 10, 2004:
“The Democratic 527 organizations have drawn support from some wealthy liberals determined to defeat Bush. They include financier George Soros who gave $1.46 million to MoveOn.org Voter Fund (in the form of matching funds to recruit additional small donors); Peter B. Lewis, chief executive of the Progressive Corp., who gave $500,000 to MoveOn.org Voter Fund; and Linda Pritzker, of the Hyatt hotel family, and her Sustainable World Corp., who gave $4 million to the joint fundraising committee.”
A donation in 2004 to defeat Bush is not creating an arm of the Democratic Party.
According to Wikipedia:
“MoveOn.org ceased receiving any donations to its 527 after the 2004 election, and closed the 527 permanently in 2008. MoveOn’s primary source of funding is its members. MoveOn.org raised nearly 60 million dollars in 2004 from its members, with an average donation of $50.”
Soros is no Democratic Party operative but an independent activist who made important contributions to the massive changes that occured with the fall of the Soviet system.
From his Open Society Foundations website:
http://www.soros.org/about/bios/staff/george-soros
“Before graduating from the London School of Economics in 1952, Soros studied Karl Popper’s work in the philosophy of science as well as his critique of totalitarianism, “The Open Society and Its Enemies,” which maintains that no philosophy or ideology has the final word on the truth and that societies can only flourish when they allow for democratic governance, freedom of expression, a diverse range of opinion, and respect for individual rights. . .
“Soros’s memories of anti-Semitism in wartime Hungary prompted him, in 1979, to begin providing financial support for black students at the University of Cape Town in apartheid South Africa. In 1984, Soros created an education and culture foundation in Hungary. He later supported dissident movements in Eastern Europe’s other Communist countries, helping people to organize themselves at a time when popular organizations were banned, to voice their opinions when dissonant opinions were considered anti-state propaganda, and to promote tolerance, democratic governance, human rights, and the rule of law when a one-party dictatorship exercised a monopoly on power.
As the East bloc crumbled during the late 1980s and the Soviet empire collapsed in the early 1990s, Soros expanded his funding in an effort to help create open societies in all of the region’s countries. He demonstrated his commitment to critical thinking and democratic political development by establishing Central European University in 1991. In 1993, he founded the Open Society Institute. Over the past three decades, Soros’s philanthropy has spawned a network of foundations dedicated to promoting development of open societies in Africa, Asia, Europe, Latin America, and the United States. To date, Soros has given over $8 billion to support human rights, freedom of expression, and access to public health and education in 70 countries.”
I just skipped through and browsed most of this diary, I am going back to read it all. Last night at our county, (WI) Democratic Party (I am here as an Independent for the latest about Walker recall) meeting after sitting through the Walker stuff, we got a handout to pick which of thirty topics to selectwhich points we thought would be best for talking points for supporting Obama by the former county chairperson. My turn to speak I apologized for being the wet blanket and said all thirty points were lies and distortions by the local obots & asked why we weren’t debating the list instead of being asked to uncritically pick “favorite,” talking points.
After the meeting the same person distributed for free a handful of “we are the 99%,” stickers, from commondreams.org/99stickers. I am presently writing a letter to the county dem board members about their push-poll manipulation of the county membership in attendance last night, with the list and the co-opting of the occupy movement by comdrm.org.
Local is certainly the best locale to effect good change, dear; good on you. As you know, I’ve been tryin’ to help develop a new site. Slow going, and just as I was thinkin’ to leave, they all made it so hard to, I stuck a pin it. Kgb’s made every accommodation to my neurological quirks, and others made it easier to cross-post; just put a link up when I’m burned out, all that. So…I took some good-natured, but on point teasing. Kgb also explained how long it takes to get a large readership, all that. So…
But do post there here and there again, if ya like. We did have a discussion of who might have gotten chased away by whom…it got a bit silly. Kinda thought (but dinnae say), it may have been down to me that your boogied (as per your teasing about my ‘elocution skills’ on your diary.
Anyhoo, if so, sorry. It appears I can have some strong opinions once in awhile. ;o) And if ya need to kick any of it around, you have my email.
To be clear, I replied as above not to dispute your suspicions about MoveOn – which I share – but to get the word out about George Soros, a truly remarkable human being.
Well, then nonquixote, it appears that you took the hard and high road; good on you. Common Dreams now has an activist arm? They used to be an aggregator site; how strange. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts after you read.
WI is one of the places that many say is ripe for cooptation, as the need for coalitions has seemed so key. Oy. Sure hope Walker and friends’ legal problems get them *gone*.
I appreciate your perspective and championing of him. I admit I was about to ask what that had to do with the sense of the diary; sorry if I got that part wrong, but I disagree that MoveOn isn’t a Democratic Party arm. I know they claim otherwise; if they’ve ever backed a non-Dem, it would be interesting to hear.
And writing your own bio, and being *able* to write your own bio on da Wiki…makes me wonder about the spin.
But…I will try to be a bit more open-minded about Soros. ;o)
BMcGarth
Why not research your assertions before spouting them? Your idea of Soros could not be more wrong. See below at 3:42 pm. He’s rich – he must be a creep, is that it? No. His Open Society Foundations have been donating billions for decades all over the world toward democracy and open society promotion. His philanthropy played an important role in the collapse of the Communist bloc regimes and in deveoping open societies in the countries afterward.
Gee Cathy……..I can’t help but ask…….what’s yer interest? You one of his illegitimate progeny?
And the one I’ve been dying to ask an “expert” is this…….why the sudden turn about? In the very midst of spewing economic gloom and doom prophetic utterances for the benefit of the corrupted MSM……why give the lie to those utterances by simultaneously purchasing billions of discounted Eurotrash-bonds when MF Global goes down?
Jus’ Sayin’
Question #2 is all important, because committing violence affects the committer. I think it tends to dehumanize. And if we dehumanize the other, we really dehumanize ourselves in the long run.
Bottom line Cathy, it is not possible to accumulate multiple billions without blood on your hands. Period. Witness those American heroes Gates and Jobs. Deal with it.
Your ardent dissembling and defense makes you complicit. Deal with it.
I wanted to write about Soros because his philosophy seems to chime so well with much of what Occupy seems to be about. I don’t disagree with you about MoveOn being a Dem party operation
I don’t think you can just write your own bio on Wikipedia and load it with misinformation. Wikipedia is pretty safe from spin except for controversial topics because of the open editing feature and the huge Wiki community on the watch for spin and misinformation. The contributions of Soros are not controversial excpet for right wing nuts. I first heard about him from an article by Joseph Steiglitz who admires him greatly.
hey wendy,
I am no where near as well versed as you on so much of this stuff, but I appreciate all your efforts as I am learning, I think, through following much of your writing. I’ve made friends with most of the local party stalwarts here, but have openly refused to join the party (again stating that fact, in my polite little criticism last night) while they openly hound me to, “officially,” join them at every opportunity. Telling them I gave up drinking kool-aid 55 yrs ago goes over many heads.
I am nearing burn-out with some of this stuff like mentioned in the comments above and am being careful to focus my energies on removing Walker, then our local Repub State legis. I warned the D party in attendance that if they were serious about the D political agenda, Walker being ousted would say more to the national scene than anything else they could do now and not to lose focus on the most important goal.
I so do appreciate all you contribute here.
“why give the lie to those utterances by simultaneously purchasing billions of discounted Eurotrash-bonds when MF Global goes down?” A reference for this? Or do we just take your word for it.
” His Open Society Foundations have been donating billions for decades all over the world toward democracy and open society promotion.”
Yes to benefit whom ? Open society so the people will benefit…code words for Corporations.
Just like Clinton Global Initiative….having Corporations rape rape countries of their resources and then hand ‘em a measly 1/2 billion and pretend you have done good.
“Open Society” my foot,like “No child left behind” and “Clean air” initative.
Doen’t surprise me one bit that we will see some come to Soros’s defense, afterall, he is wealthy & will do anything to preserve his good name.
“Your ardent dissembling and defense makes you complicit. Deal with it.”
Did I say a word about how Soros made his money? Did I champion that? I only spoke about how he used a lot of it. I’m not saying he’s a saint and without blemish, but I guess such distinctions are beyond you. None of what I wrote was a lie but based on sources I trust.
I’m complicit? I should deal with it? You are a pompous sanctimonious ahole aren’t you? You can deal with that.
And we should just take your word that wikipedia is mostly reliable. In which multi-verse? There are whole think tanks that pay people to do nothing but corrupt data there, rewriting history.
An’ here’s yer link……so sorry to disabuse you of your delusion (and that’s the best I can frame it).
http://www.businessinsider.com/george-soros-bought-2-billion-european-bonds-once-owned-by-mf-global-2011-12
Whose side are you on is the question you need to ask yourself.
And yes, I am an asshole. A professional one. But there isn’t anything sanctimonious or pompous about it, it is hard won. Honestly won. I spent 18 years in the underground mines, I lost a lot of friends so people like Soros could accumulate wealth. I am really angry, and the battle lines are being drawn.
So whose side are you on after all that backin’ up? Pick one.
Funny how Soros is so interested in Open societies but can’t bring himself to say anything about the closing of our society.
What a swell guy….point is folks,these insanely rich people aren’t & will never be progressive…progressivism is a challenge to how they make their goobs of money.
Soros is no progressive despite what some will do to further than impression upon you.
Good post, Cathy. Keep ‘em coming.
Hey wendydavis,
Sorry……really I am……but I can’t be but who I am. Ya wanna ban me from your threads, I’ll respect that…..no questions.
But it is time to stand and fight. This is supposedly a progressive site. Given our present circumstance, the lying and dissembling and propaganda is no longer a matter for polite debate. It is time to call it out. To stand and fight. Anything less is surrender. People are dying over this, it is worth the trouble.
Robert Alexander Dumas
This is Cathy Mason’s reply to my post above:
“BMcGarth
Why not research your assertions before spouting them? Your idea of Soros could not be more wrong. See below at 3:42 pm. He’s rich – he must be a creep, is that it? No”
And in reply to you above suddenly found religion.CathyMason now pretends she is not defending Soros.
Another good response!
“lying and dissembling and propaganda is no longer a matter for polite debate”
Kudos to you.
What exactly is your function here you fucking clown? You a troll coach? First time I’ve seen one of those. Cloud 9 huh? Fucking coward.
Thank you BMcGarth,
I’ll watch for your pixels. Gonna be a long hard year. Lucky for me I like to fight.
I deleted my comment (somewhere) after seeing some other comments upthread; I always tend to look downthread when I get back on a post. My only gripe was your question about Cathy being an illegitimate heir; that was just plain wrong in my book, though I will say that maybe she took it as hyperbole; maybe it was, but still… ‘Jo Mama!’ comments turn me off.
That said, all this did cause me to think about Soros’s moves in the markets, making him out to be a benefactor, then cleaning up…sorta smells wrong. So…in the end, I think that it’s a healthy discussion.
Dunno much about Soros, but I *do* know plenty of the dark sides to putative philanthropists like Clinton.
I am, however, glad that you admitted to being an asshole. There are times when I’d have to agree. ;o)
The one who’s just killing me is the little cheerleader saying, “Go, Cathy” from the sidelines. I’d be embarrassed to be so lame.
‘Stand and fight’ means something different to you and to me; but we’ve had that conversation a number of times. Neither of us has a corner on ‘the right approach’, methinks. Don’t have to ban you,
Robert, now that I know the Secret Power diary authors have. ;o)
How bad is MoveOn?
A. The devil’s minion
B. Sort of bad
C. Well-meaning idiots
D. Useful
How to address a question like this? I don’t. They are a mass organization, deeply plugged into the Democratic Party. But as a mass organization, they of course have a left, right and center, despite the fact that their leadership is nothing to write home about.
Rather, the question is, how does one relate to their membership? If they do good things, praise those good things. If they do bad things, excoriate them roundly.
Fact is, Occupy has moved them or they wouldn’t be making the kinds of moves commented on above. I find it of some amusement that, while radicals are disturbed lest Occupy be contaminated by MoveOn, MoveOn leaders are throwing conniptions, at least in their boardrooms, that MoveOn is being contaminated by Occupy.
This is simply how movements develop. Success ALWAYS brings watering down, and attracting unsavory elements. If Occupy has its act together — and I believe it does — this will build them while they stay the progressive course. The issue is solid organizing. There is always a delicate dance between reform and revolution. Let the band play on!
If I ever see you exercise that function against anyone, you will have effectively banned me.
And I didn’t just admit to being an asshole, I proclaimed it. I am in fact proud of it. I rarely take an action or utter a word without prior consideration……and I am more than willing to live with the consequences. We all have choices to make in this life, and I am tired of fabricated polity and feigned PC. Life is too short.
Your willingness to give the benefit of the doubt always….. simply baffles me. It mimics naivete….and I know that isn’t it.
Having said all that…..ya know I Luv Ya. Really…I Do.
“……..is equal to the love…..you make.”
G’nite
Tough to know how to respond to this, Robert Alexander Dumas, pissed as I am to read your reaction to what I said above.
I know how relatively humor-challenged you are, so I shouldn’t be surprised that you didn’t notice how ironic I was being about ‘The Editorial Power’; I assumed I had answered that on other threads fully.
Kinda want to ‘say piss up a rope Robert’, but being the naïf you say I am, I will desist. *And* learn to live with your disapproval.
“The oligarchic model, as exemplified by the Inter-Alpha Group, works just the opposite way. Its network of banks is used to suck capital out of localities and into the global markets, where it can be used to speculate, manipulate, and subjugate the people of the planet. Such banks do not nurture their customer base, they loot it….
The purpose of the bailout is to bankrupt the United States and every other nation which runs its own bailout operation, so that they no longer have the power to resist the Empire’s plans for a fascist global financial dictatorship, run top-down by the imperial monetary system through its banks and corporate cartels. It is the final act in our national suicide, and the culmination of the Inter-Alpha project.”
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2010/3736inter-alpha_genocide.html
Soros is an operative of this Financial Oligarchy:
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2008/2008…/64-79_3526.pdf
Course you may want to be prepared to exit the Mickey Mouse Club where “Boys & Girls–No Conspiracies Allowed!” is tacked to the door.
Only poor simpletons like Shakespeare dared to believe that powerful people might want to conspire to maintain and enhance their control. What a simple dunce he was, huh?!
Thanks Wendy.
edit: the “you” of the Mickey Mouse Club is generic–for anyone cowed by this cudgel of Good Herd Behavior the Oligarchy likes to employ with so much success.
“Telling them I gave up drinking kool-aid 55 yrs ago goes over many heads.” I can see that; there are so many whose identities are so tied to being Democrats that it’s a tough shift to make, seriously. I remember a decade or more ago having a Democrat County chairman’s wife say to me that it gave her goosebumps knowing that Democrat X in some place held the same beliefs that she did…or something. Couldn’t possibly think what to say. ;o)
Sometimes the enormity of the macro is too much to bear. I’ve blogged way over my share of anti-war over the years, then became obsessed with drone-killing and the alleged anti-septic nature of it, and some days I can’t even read about the recent children Obama and his Designated Civilian Deciders have killed. Tomorrow? Who knows? (Another 6 in Afghanistan just this week) For some of us, when we write it…we live it to some degree, or at least I do, as it should be, IMO. Like this teenager (don’t read unless you feel ready; it’s…horrid, srsly.)
http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2011/11/08/pardon-me-my-name-is-tariq-aziz-may-i-speak-to-you-please/
WTH am I giving you this? I don’t mean to be unkind. Some impulse is at work.
I do know that mostly what I write is…what I can’t not write.
“Walker being ousted would say more to the national scene than anything else they could do now and not to lose focus on the most important goal.” Some fair truth to that; I have a friend in WI who has given up everything to campaign for Walker’s ouster. He emails me with the highs and lows he feels for the future of America.
Most days I say we will win…because there really is no other choice.
Sleep well, nonquixote; you’re doing good stuff out there. ;o)
This diary was about MoveOn trying to conflate their own events as being Occupy events. No doubt about it: we have changed the conversation, and shown the power of the Great Awakening; in spring, more will clearly come out of hibernation. May Day. ;o)
Wo, jeez, northwest. I did some googling, found banking systems like Commerzbank…don’t have any knowledge of any of it.
But extractive banking is a bain beyond compare, and the fact that everything in this country had=s been financialized is scary (Yes, I listen to Ratigan). ;o)
But see? I read ‘larouche’ and get the willies; sorry if my ignorance indicates bigotry. Some of the threads on Syria have made that point: how hard it is to leave behind totally our early education cum delusions we’ve been taught to find comforting.
Yes; Will was silly. ;o)
And welcome, even if I couldn’t understand all you brought. It’s not an infrequent occurrence, lol!
For the past year of OWS’s existence, I am still not impressed with all the overt effort being expended. But I am arriving to the point where I will probably change my mind, somewhere in the future, if my druthers, comes to fruition.
And here’s why?
“Where is your ‘irrelevance’?”
Take, for example, here in Arizona and as is all across America, the “you” has become irrelevant. If you’re a Republican state legislator, the Democrats are the equivalent for being “non-functioning” since any legislation authored by a Democrat will never get to the point of having a hearing on “you” and on your legislation.
And with the current settlement agreement by the State AG’s again demonstrates that the “you” has been rendered null and void. And on issue after issue, there is no “you” engaged in any of the perceived or foreseeable outcomes.
As such, and from my historical perspective, the OWS is swimming upstream, when one takes into consideration, that 1) belief system, 2)Issue Positions, and 3)Constituencies and donir-interests, have been rendered null and void. And with the recent creation of the SuperPacs, these three elements in politics, will continue to turn relevance into a daily diet for irrelevance.
Consequently, seeing the OWS address this “you” for being “irrelevant” into a more indefinite behavior that becomes the scourge of the Right during the next forty years, is a ‘tuff’ challenge to dump on any political apparatus that is slowly getting off its knees, comes from my asking too much for anyone engaged in the OWS. And perhaps, my “demand” is not reasonably fair since this political effort by the OWS, has a long way to go, beyond the usual effort for “changing the conversation.”
So, if the “you” is engaged in the OWS, keep up the hard work that just may change the working middle class into a viable Middle Class and where Honor Reciprocated pre-supposes the existence of the American Dream.
Jaango
The democracy movement is only months old, but…I see it as more of a social movement in spirit, working outside the political system we’ve all agreed can’t be changed within. So hard to see where it all goes come spring, jaango.
But as for Arizona; you are in the toughest state in the union now. I just went in search of a particular Larry Long song I wanted for a diary, and found a snippet of ‘Light One Candle (for South Africa)’.
Arizona might benefit from a similar action, if it could be that the good will and conscious intentions of all who care could be bent in your direction, in hopes that the hideous happenings there can be…stopped. The images in my mind are flipping like a rolodex, imagining the myriad fronts on which folks there are being accosted daily…economic brutality, racism, schools dying, private prisons and companion laws to fill them, ALEC legislation ruling…almost too much, jaango, dear.
I see the faces: Brewer, Arpaio, a host of others, and see that there can’t be political solutions without wholesale psycho-spiritual change pushing it along….
The hope I hold with OWS is that so many of diverse backgrounds and stories are coming together to meet, support and care for one another, and are seriously trying to find new ways to design solutions that don’t even *require* government, or at least way less of it. It’s all so young, but it IS about the *US*, The People, who are really going to need to reset ‘the Dream’, IMO.
We need to learn to live with just enough, plus some for the future, no? So many fun ideas and new thinking and rejections of old hierarchical thinking we just bought into unthinkingly. We Are the Ones, tra la la…It’s down to us. Will we fight hard enough for ourselves, or continue to to ask ‘May we have some more, please?’ Guess I’m bettin’ on us, but some days it’s a hard beleif to sustain.
But I need another vacation into the Light, and I’m gonna write about Beauty…and Water. Here’s Jimi for ya, jaango. Sit back, close yer eyes, and enjoy…he’ll take away. ;o)
wd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc4iDZaJbyM
Wendy,
Many voices and many Ideas are what will carry the day.
And thanks for the Jimi.
Jaango
;o) And: yes.
What do you think the FDL community (or better yet, aware progressives, in general) could and should do to educate the public about not just MoveOn, but the entire Veal Pen phenomenon?
Hopefully, you will suggest doing something in an organized fashion.
Educating others on a progressive blog has some value, but because political blogs are a niche phenomenon, that automatically imposes a constraint on how much good you can do just within the blog world. dailykos, probably the largest political blog in the country, gets only about 2 million distinct visitors per month. That’s small in comparison to the total number of voters…
Teaching the public about the Veal Pen will have 2 benefits – first, it’ll help the public avoid reform groups that are basically facades. But secondly, it will also teach about the corruption of the Democratic Party. Doing so would motivate some people to get involved in reforming the Democratic Party, and others in abandoning it. Both of those are better outcomes than just being a lesser evilist voter.
…and I wish I’d simply said that I really didn’t feel the luv so much.