As in: On Sunday, General John Allen, the US/NATO Commander in Afghanistan ordered a stop to joint combat operations and patrols “until further notice”, except for ‘partnering and advising with Afghan forces at 800-forces battalion level or above’. Reacting to hair-on-fire media coverage in the UK, ISAF later said it was ‘temporary’.
Are there any more rabbit holes to fall into? Looking glasses to fall through? Edvard Munch Screams to imagine as we contemplate the deranged, demented, irrational execution of ‘Operation Enduring Freedom’? The first week in October will mark year twelve of the failed, unwinnable war. Twelve.long.years.
Here’s the stage set, then comes The Play.
You will remember that the COIN (counter-insurgency) strategy came with OBomba’s 30,000 troop surge in Dec. 2009. Authored by David Petraeus, it was a theoretical plan to win the hearts and minds of Afghan citizens, entice them to feel good about the Karzai government, thereby marginalizing the Taliban…and winning the war, stabilizing the place, I guess.
Well, it didn’t turn out all that well, especially that a major part of the strategy was the old Iraqi claim: ‘We’ll train up their troops, so we can stand ours down.” As in Iraq, the number of well-trained and loyal local forces was a constantly jiggered number. When a good report was needed; the number was high; when it was diminished, the report always ended with the ‘we just need a little more time’ claim. And of course was entwined with the extending the date for NATO’s final withdrawal, now aimed at a slightly chimerical 2014. The 30,000 ‘surged’ troops are due to leave soon, leaving 68,000 and God knows how many contract mercenaries and support personnel (no one dares tell that secret strategy, imo).
It seems that recent developments in Afghanistan have pretty much turned the strategy to shit, unless of course you’re Leon Panetta, who had been assuring us that things are going swimmingly, and that NATO had those freakin’ Taliban on the run. (Lick your elbow if you believed him.)
You’ve likely read that two British and four American soldiers were killed by Afghan security forces over the weekend, which brought the tally of ‘green-on-blue’ killings to 51 so far in 2012, which means they are happening with increasing frequency. At about the same time, Taliban forces attacked Camp Bastion in Helmand Province during an assault which killed two US marines; maybe those deaths brought the number to fifty-one. The assault that (Prince Harry was there but is safe, which fact was the larger news in the UK, of course.)
There were fifteen NATO forces killed by ‘insider attacks’ in August alone, in addition, Radio Free Europe (RFE), is announcing that four U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan were shot dead, and two wounded on September 16 by at least one Afghan police officer in the Southern province of Zabul. It’s unclear if these deaths were included in the number, either; I just happened upon the news.
In mid-August, US commanders had issued orders that soldiers were to be armed at all times, and guard each other as they ate, slept or interacted with Afghan forces. You might conclude that they don’t trust their counterparts, which might be considered a PR victory for the Taliban, whoever they are exactly.
Zo. Now The Play, centered in the UK:
It turns out that upon hearing of the recent deaths of two members of the Yorkshire regiment and the fact that one fifth of UK soldiers killed in the Graveyard of Empires this year were ‘green-on-blue’ attacks, Members of Parliament wanted to quiz Foreign Secretary William Hague about it. He’d just visited Afghanistan, so they must have reckoned he could shed a little light on the subject.
To make a long story short, Hague announced to Commons on Monday that these killings would in no way change NATO’s mission, which Defense Secretary Philip Hammond echoed. Both men were publicly humiliated when it was discovered that NATO commanders had made their ‘no further collaboration’ announcement on Sunday. It appears that commanders hadn’t even communicated the New Rules to Hamid Karzai or the Afghan Defense ministers.
Reaction has been swift and furious from many quarters. Not least is the fact that the UK, as the premier ally of the US wasn’t even notified of the decision. A NATO spokesman said there just wasn’t time.
“Mr. Hammond was implying that the new rules – which would indeed make our continued stay in Afghanistan a complete waste of time as we’re supposed to be there only to train the Afghans’ insecurity forces – were something or nothing. Dennis Skinner, who does not use army slang, said “the allies are unreliable, Karzai is useless and the Afghan forces are treacherous. It’s time to get out!”
But Labour MP MacShane, who is demanding that UK forces leave Afghanistan by Christmas, said: “In essence the Americans are saying: ‘It’s over. It’s drawdown time and pretty soon we’ll be out like we got out of Vietnam, like we got out of other colonial wars. “Yesterday I did ask an urgent question of Mr Hammond. He came to the Commons about these deaths and he didn’t mention this at all.
“Either he knew about it and was hiding it, which I don’t think is the case, or frankly the Americans aren’t even bothering to tell their biggest ally.”
One of the main justifications for troops being in Afghanistan is the training of Afghan security forces to handle the situation once UK forces withdraw in 2014.
Conservative MP Bob Stewart backed calls to “get our troops out as fast as possible” but added: “It’s not easy to just pull up stumps.”
Tory MP John Baron, while pointing out that the original mission was to defeat al Qaeda, pushed back against another Member’s notion that nation-building and women’s rights were a reason to stay (my bold):
“Meanwhile, misguided attempts at nation-building demand victory over the Taliban. Little attempt was made to discern differences between the Taliban and al-Qaeda, even though these differences are real. Many Taliban have not forgotten it was due to al-Qaeda that they were driven from power, and we now learn that even before 9/11 some in the Taliban leadership were unhappy with their guests.
With al-Qaeda a spent force in Afghanistan, and it being clear the insurgency will not be defeated, the logical course of action for our withdrawal is to refocus on our central mission. This has to involve non-conditional talks with the Taliban. This is what made Thursday’s statement so depressing: the Government is sticking to the American line that negotiations will not take place until the Taliban lay down their arms and accept the Afghan constitution – this will never happen.”
Now, The Play (my bold):
US Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, described the attacks as the “last gasp” of a weakened Taliban, but in another Oops Moment had to walk that drivel back after this from former ambassador Ryan Crock said:
“I will believe it’s their last gasp when I’ve got my boot on the throat of the last one of them.”
“We have seen the Taliban go from mass attacks to high- profile suicide attacks to the indiscriminate suicide bombings,” such as a Sept. 8 blast that killed six Afghan children and injured several others, Crocker said.
The Taliban “are tough, smart and resilient,” he said. “Don’t underestimate your enemy.”
Radio Free Europe has it that NATO is saying that about one-quarter of the insider attacks are thought to be carried out by militants or Taliban fighters who have infiltrated Afghanistan’s security forces.
It says that the majority of insider attacks are the result of misunderstandings, cultural differences, and Afghan soldiers harboring personal grudges against some of those who are training the 350,000-strong Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police.
Yes, some misunderstandings may have resulted from the West occupying their lands, killing their people, conducting night raids and disappearing many into the Dark Prison system, address unknown. They might hold grudges over things like the most recent NATO air attack on ‘militants’ resulting in the deaths of eight women and the injury of seven others, including several as young as ten years old…who were out gathering wood. Cultural misunderstandings, yes.
“Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
~ Excerpt from ‘The Second Coming’ by William Butler Yeats, 1919
(cross-posted at kgblogz.com)




82 Comments

Freudian Slip? Maybe this is the official line until after the election after all just what else can they do to better screen Afghan troops? If we can’t screen terrorists from the Afghan troops we can’t keep going on patrol with them.
I wonder what kind of screening process they use now and if lie detectors would work? Remember that tv show “Lie to Me” about a guy who could tell when people were lying through facial cues?
Times like this I wonder why this science is not being used? Or maybe it is being used but the science does not match the hype.
Anyway if we can’t screen the Afghan troops better we will never go on patrol with them again. Lie detecting tech is the only way I see that happening.
Well, the generals blame Karzai, but one of the things I read said they will send additional screening techniques or something.
Nothing’s going to weed out all the sincerely pissed off, imo. Lie detectors are unreliable, and there are now 360,000 security forces, anyway.
Why not just get the hell out instead?
Funny you mentioned ‘Lie to me’, though. I’ve read the work of the guy whose work it was based in, plus the NLP eye movement guidelines on lying. Turns out, they’re opposite for me. I’ve been wondering how to post about the NLP stuff and ask people to check with themselves, though it would mean knowing ahead of time what might come up. Dunno; it may not be possible to *not* frontload the experiment.
But yeah, not too many are proficient enough to read liars, and many liars are sociopaths, which complicates ‘reading’ them.
There’s a strategy?
Lying, honesty, and truth are culturally biased. E.g., in open-market bazaar cultures, lying is an important part of the social exchange during the price negotiations. More significant, in nomadic Arabic societies (I can’t say if it applies to other nomadic societies or to Afghani society), speakers won’t trust each other if they’re not close enough to smell each other. By contrast, in Anglo-European societies, speakers try to stay clear of each other. So, when a typical Arab and a typical American are speaking to each other, both are likely to be communicating at cross-purposes: the Arab will seem pushy (‘in your face’) to the American, who will back away and as likely as not betray discomfort, while the American will seem evasive, wary, and distrusting to the Arab.
Perhaps such micro relations ultimately prevent any mutual trust in macro relations.
The worst kind of lying occurs in writing, where there are no visual or other sensory cues, and in bombastic or slick oratory when liars can mask any tell-tale signs.
Finally, the reason behind these endless missions in the Near East and Middle East won’t be revealed, so every explanation or justification is an outright lie. We know how lying begets lying to cover the first lie until it takes on a life of its own as a logical and even sensible pathology and an inextricable feature of the missions.
Yes; how dare you ask, Isaiah!
S:ilk Road
T:he Pipelines
R:are Minerals
A:dd 50,000 Mercenaries for Hire Secretly
T:ill We Can Shift to a New Theater of Operations; Panetta’s in China
E:mpire
G:od Is On Our Side
Y:ou Suckers
Oh. THAT strategy. It looks familiar,
Well we have a strategy too . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX3IL1Xm_CQ&feature=player_embedded
Who said “Art is a lie that tells the truth?” Picasso?
But your cultural differences paragraphs remind me that among the Navajo (Dineeh), it’s considered rude to look in another person’s eyes (pointing at people is also rude, so they learn to point with their chins). Anglo teachers often go crazy that the Navajo kids are being deceptive since they don’t meet the teachers’ eyes.
Well, part of COIN was when the great band of cultural anthropologists came to help. Only, well, it turned out they were all armed, *plus* any intel they gleaned from bonding with the local citizenrywent…you know where. Great program, though./s
Absolutely agree with the ease of lying in writing, and often wonder if people online are what they say they are, too. Writing with some verisimilitude helps, though. ;o)
No, we are only left to ponder *actions* as probative of *design* with these wars; but we do reach some Truthiness watching carefully, don’t we?
Thanks for all that, AitchD.
Added on edit: Bugger! I forgot:
“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
~ George Orwell
Brilliant!
Make it a song, wendydavis! Here’s the template ;o)
Orwell’s justly famous essays, “Shooting An Elephant” and “A Hanging” are beloved for their first-hand, first-person unimpeachable style, though they depend more on fiction than what a film or photographic account would reveal. His detractors say he made it all up. If he in fact made it all up, he wasn’t lying, deceiving, or being dishonest. Great artists don’t give a crap about how they reveal truth.
Sincerely heartening and lovely production, Isaiah. Thank you.
In turn.
LOL! Er…mine might not sell quite as well, eh?
(Now…off for some sleep, she sayed hopefully…)
Thanks, dear. ;o)
Beautiful. Thanks, WD.
Karzai is a President how does he make his troops shoot at us? Sure Karzai says plenty of unAmerican things but to be fair we do keep killing unarmed Afghans if Karzai did not say unAmerican things he would be dead by now.
Agreed but I am curious to know if they have tried lie detectors or sent for the “lie to Me ” guy tv science success is often overblown.
That was the conclusion I was trying to lead people too:) If we can’t even patrol with ” cough” allied troops because they keep killing us its time to leave.
Interesting the eye movements are opposite for you I wonder how common that is and what factors cause that reaction? Maybe you can talk to some experts for help on the post?
Lying and smell interesting.
Just how can we train the Afghans if we can’t be alone with them?
The average person can spot lies 50% imagine if that number were 73%?
While previous research — including studies conducted by Ekman — has shown that people in general have only a 50/50 chance of detecting when someone is lying by their expression or tone of voice, the aphasia patients were able to detect lies cued by facial expression alone 73 percent of the time. The other study groups all had close to 50 percent accuracy in recognizing lies tied to facial expressions. The aphasia patients also did better than the other groups in detecting lies cued by both facial and vocal changes – 60 percent compared with about 45 percent. None of the groups did well in recognizing lies cued by changes in vocal pitch alone.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20000410225320data_trunc_sys.shtml
http://my.firedoglake.com/thingscomeundone/2011/09/29/the-average-person-can-spot-lies-50-imagine-if-that-number-were-73/
A doctor in the book ” an Anthropologist on Mars ” noted Aphasia patients laughing during a Reagan speech.
I think the FDL should have Aphasia patients rate politicians and the stock market.
Imagine how much money we could make on the stockmarket if we knew 73 % of the time when someone was lying?
Imagine how many votes Obama would have gotten if we knew he was lying back then?
Mitt maybe a psycho liar but he is a bad liar.
Thank you wd…needs to be seen…be told…all Big Lies now being told again and again. By POTUS Obama,SoD Panetta,SoS Clinton etc…
This is all smelling much like that 1960s-1970s USA attack on SE Asia and the Big Lies used to make it possible,keep it going way past all the points when still doing so was just insane BS. So many Asians and USians died so WashingtonDC could do what? Take a long shite?
Obama,Panetta and Clinton all doing the BS talking…no walking…
…they …the Big Lies they seek/want to keep telling…shameless.
WashingtonDC is now conducted on telling Big Lies again and again and again. This can not,should not get a happy ending.
Too much deathdealing being done because the Big Lies on Big Lies demand it.
The 1% wants precog’s. We need Aphasia patients.
Given that Karzai’s big objections to night raids, civilian deaths by drone or air attack, they are all arguably…bullshit. I’d reckon that the insurgency is both against the US (posing as NATO) *and* the Karzai government. I did read a few pages about the 2014 election, especially concerning the *exit* strategy. Not knowing diddly about the candidate possibilities, parties, etc., I sure didn’t retain much. (I say cuz of my own aphasia, but that would be over-selling my head stuff.) ;o)
Anyhoo, he wants to stay in power, and has apparently floated the idea of calling elections early, then proceeding in some kinda complicated electorally allowable political moves.
Dunno that there’d be any experts on NLP and lying here, but it might be a fun post if I can figure out how to arrange it. Thanks for your input; pretty heterodox stuff yer brain comes up with Things. ;o)
Welcome, arrow. I swear, reading the stuff that comes out of Clinton’s, OBomba’s, Panetta’s mouths makes me crazy. Hill-girl spanking other nations for Human Rights violations while we have no more civil rights, and we kill brown and black people all over the world with impunity…assassinate those they pre-judge as guilty…well, you get my drift, as long we say *crush dissent*…and the nation by and large ignores it. And only because it hasn’t happened to them.
We gotta stop this shit soon.
(I had to google ‘prcogs’; not up on films.) So: ay yi yi; nice thinking, comrade dear.
I wonder if the Russians could have helped on this whole thing, with some straightforward pointers.
Robert Fisk article: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-this-strategy-has-been-tried-before-ndash-without-success-1833133.html
“Victor Sebestyen, who has researched a book about the fall of the Soviet empire, has written at length of those frozen days after the Russian army stormed into Afghanistan just after Christmas of 1979. He quotes General Sergei Akhromeyev, commander of the Soviet armed forces, addressing the Soviet Politburo in 1986. “There is no piece of land in Afghanistan that has not been occupied by one of our soldiers at some time or another. Nevertheless much of the territory stays in the hands of the terrorists. We control the provincial centres, but we cannot maintain political control over the territory we seize.”
Once you realized that you must, in every instance, ask the question, “can somebody who is doing this make a lot of money from it”
Everthing becomes clear. It’s the only thing that matters in all decisions. Everything else is window dressing.
Americans pushing for this never gave a crap about women in Afghanistan. That issue was raised repeatedly prior to Osama, and it was a non issue for the decision makers.
This is, as all is, only, about making money. That is also why they will drag it out as long as they can. A million dollars a year per soldier. who gets that money I wonder?
oilco, (450 dollars a gallon), mercenaryco, uniformco, rifleco ammunitionco, armorplatingco, tankco, missileco, helicopterco, blah blah blah.
WD. This line is a quagmire. Lying is not even mutually understood from culture to culture, much less mutually on display. It’s as nebulous a subject as courtship behavior.
Even when we’re trying to guess who’s lying amoung our friends and relatives, success is a function of need, will, inate ability and training. Protestants learn to lie with a straight face in Sunday school, and the earlier they start the better they get. Poker is played as much for the training as for the thrill or the profit.
Police officers, FBI and CIA agents, government interrigators, spys and vacuum cleaner salesmen practice constantly. Which may help them see through members of their own culture, or not. Do not presume to apply Western cultural norms to Pashtuns.
We have finally worn out our welcome. It was time to go when we missed bin Laden in the Tora Bora. The Taliban is not a political party; it is the exppression of the will of the dominant tribe. If we’re not willing to kill them all, we should have gone long ago.
Aaaaand…how many million per contract mercenary? Humveeco, droneNsoftwareco, baseconstructionco, NGOco, endless.
No, women weren’t the thing, but it did cause Libruls to support staying, so…there’s that. Moyers had Sarah Blue Eyes on once, making the plea…”My dear little Afghan women…” Bah.
When the government and the profiteers operate in unison, there’s a name for it, no? And hell; Ike tried to warn us, dammit.
But look at all that’s afoot now while most of the populace remains blithely unaware. Our best chance is that *globally*, working people and other disenfranchised brothers and sisters are beginning to say ‘Enough!’
Thanks for the Fisk piece, too. I only had time to scan it (I’m packing roasted chiles), so I’ll read it more carefully later.
Edit update: Sarah Chayes. I’d forgotten that she was ‘advising’ the Joint Chiefs.
Who said something to the effect that in order to sell the Great Lie, ya have to be careful about the small lies; they are what can derail the Big Ones?
I’d prefer to believe your take on this. Otherwise I’ll have to accept that the PTB simply don’t have sense enough to pour piss out of a boot.
I wasn’t concerned so much about the lying Pashtuns; hell, I dunno if they even *try* to vet them. So many folks there over the years have signed up, gotten a uniform and a rifle…and disappeared.
In this instance, for me The UK Play has been the thing, as it showed just what scratching the surface did to the ‘Bush’s Poodle’ Blair alliance. We’ll see what happens over the next few days, and how much of the diss is reported there, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the citizens start calling for their 9,000 troops to pull out sooner than later.
Of course, I’m often wrong, so…
Re: the Taliban: yes, as I said, ‘whoever they are’. Mixed Pastun tribes, I guess, which, from what I read, is where their alliances are. They were also the folks who made the local services run, found people jobs, organized guarding the convoys…
There was a point three years ago where the WH/Miltary stenographers began using Al Qaeda and Taliban rather interchangeably. It took a Tory to ask why. ;o)
Thanks, RaggMopp.
Re: Lies and Lying and Liars:
BAR’s newsletter just came in, so I clicked in just now. Glen Ford writes on ‘The Mother of All Blowbacks is Coming’.
Last paragraph:
“As Temple University’s professor Tony Monteiro has pointed out, the whole rationale for the U.S. war on terror is a lie – the facts turned backwards. Washington claims it is engaged in a long, twilight war against non-state actors, terrorists, who seek to subvert and overthrow existing governments. In reality, it is the Americans who deploy non-state, jihadi actors to overthrow governments that Washington doesn’t like. However, in doing so, the West has once again empowered fundamentalist forces that will inevitably turn against Washington, the Greatest Infidel of all. Last week’s protests are only a small foretaste of what is to come: a blowback of such intensity that the foundations of Empire will crack, and crumble.”
The Graveyard of Empires. Why is it so hard for our military leaders to believe that people are different (even ones they personally don’t know much about?)
Seems like the Vietnamese should have taught some lessons. The history of Vietnam (no secret) is replete with stories of their unbending determination. The Chinese have tried to own Vietnam over and over again, and failed over and over again.
The Afghan experience is a litany of conquerors thwarted, and much like Vietnam, not as matter of military prowess but simply grit. The Pashtun’s can’t seem to grasp the idea of quitting. It’s an axiom: Anybody can punch through Afghanistan, but no conqueror has ever been able to stay.
bit of both I think.
As the Supreme Allied Commander, Ike understood the supreme power of the military-industrial complex. As POTUS, 1953-61, he was the first to preside over the MIC’s ‘peacetime’ buildup, the MIC’s “undue influence”, and uniquely (!) positioned to rein it in or halt it. His farewell warning could have been his first inaugural address, but noooo!
It was way too late, he knew it, and he’s not entitled to a pass or any praise. History may yet show (but I hope to the contrary) that he was the worst of the worst POTUSes, and that he will be known as I Killed Everyone.
He fucken provided every POTUS since with WMDs, and he was the first POTUS to be caught lying to the world who couldn’t deny he’d lied (when the USSR shot down Francis Gary Powers, who piloted the U-2 spy plane).
similar thing in Iran, I have read.
I know as much about it as professor Tony Monteiro, and I don’t even read (but I know how to) ;o)
There’s still one of Hannibal’s elephants in the Empire’s back room. Wherever you look ‘over there’, you see the US Empire’s enabling (or forcibly causing) the removal of more or less secular dictators, who have been or are being replaced with one or another sectarian follower of Islam.
That is approximately a 180-degree shift from the Cold War era.
The Iranians I know don’t seem as scary as Pashtuns, but look at their war with Sadam. Don’t think they mind to die; shock and awe might be seriously counterproductive.
They outnumber the Iraquis three to one.
incidentally wendydavis, the movie
“the power of nightmares”
is free on the internet and explains very well how “the whole rationale for the U.S. war on terror is a lie ”
(as if you don’t have enough to read/watch already)
thanks
yes, that’s what I was referring to.
As mafr wondered about the Soviets helping think through it, ‘we are exceptional’, ergo full of hubris, and need no education by some Commies. But yes on the Viet Nam comparison, especially on the Exit. Not hard to imagine people on top of base roofs, and atop buildings at the new billion-dollar Bagram Complex and airport…waving the helicopters in.
Getting foreign invaders to leave must have been encoded in their DNA by now, don’t you think?
I dinnae mean to give him a pass, though I’m glad you brought those historical Ike events in, cuz jayzus I’d forgotten about Gary Powers.
But he warned us nonetheless, and yeppers, it was too late for enough regular folks to understand and fight back against.
Jarecki’s ‘Why We Fight’ film told some of the tales of the 50-state plan to build a: fighter jet, tank, missile shield, etc., so every Congress-critter had a stake in funding projects, as well as keeping unnecessary bases open. ;o)
You didn’t give Ike a pass or praise, and I didn’t suggest that you did, and no one who reads your comment can say you had without their lying.
Y’all were in the Xfire, and I apologize for that: whenever I can I have to make the point that Ike didn’t give us the go-ahead to be scared or to dismantle. Hardly anyone could even parse his syntax, and what he was saying sounded like so much of the Cold War red-baiting-duck-and-cover ubiquitous propaganda, that I’m sure everyone’s ears glazed over. Y’all are lucky to have been so young then. ;o)
Over yonder at kgblogz, we were talking about the wealth and planned projects, and I said I’d written on the New Silk Road back in the days of TPM Cafe, trying to recall the General who was so central to the actual project’s paper development. Loads of hits here, including a whole pdf.
But I did dig out the word.doc of the post, ‘Key to Success in Afghanistan: A Modern Silk Road Strategy [Gigglers will stay after class.]‘, and was kinda tickled to see that the General was…Petraeus. Early on in the piece, if it it helps any searches for the originals:
“Some of us had hoped that when the President fired Stanley McChrystal that there might be a pause to reflect on the Mission in Afghanistan; to consider the advisability of a war Americans are turning away from, and even Congress is beginning to balk at funding. Instead, with the appointment of Davis Petraeus, it seems as though the strategy and the war will not only continue, but extend in time. You can hear ‘success’ in the General’s voice. Uh-oh.
David Petraeus is more than a General. We know this because of the multiple roles he played in Iraq: warrior, political scientist, sociologist, public relations strategist, and more.
He now adds Entrepreneur to his resume.
Writing for Foreign Policy Magazine, Stephen Levine pings on a recent article in National Journal by Sydney Freedburg, Jr., claiming General Petraeus is highly interested in an ‘ambitious regional development strategy aiming to turn Afghanistan from an economic backwater into a hub for trans-Eurasian trade, according to three of his civilian advisers.
The gist of the plan is to return Afghanistan to the days of your as a trade hub.
The idea is “a major effort to link India’s booming economy through Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia to Caspian, European, Russian and Chinese markets,” according to a 48-page booklet describing the idea. Authors Frederick Starr and Andrew Kuchins included a glowing review by General Petraeus in the opening pages of the report…”
That’s a really good point, though not many others have made it. And you could add: flood those nations with arms, too. Brilliant.
wendydavis — Cybertour Guide Nonpareil.
The Socialist Republic Of Vietnam is a signatory of the TPP.
As George Santayana said, “Those who ignore the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeatedly follow poll results that get front-paged next door.”
Is it okay if I send you an email (before the weekend) elaborating on my hypothesis, and do you promise not to refer to it as my “hypothesis”? ;o)
Could I watch it in sections? ;o) RL does necessitate my running back and forth from chores to the laptop. My head spins with so much to learn, witness, study, remember…and write about. I reckon I usually have about half a dozen post outlines and links going at a time, and usually…it’s the seventh thing I write up. ;o)
But…I will try, mafr, and thank you.
Yikes, a Fractured Santayana quote updated with modern snark: a three-bagger, I think it’s called.
Yes, email it, if ya promise not to mind that my Inbox-ful of unanswered (or should I say ‘yet to be answered’) emails might preclude any coherent response until something percolates and causes me to answer…at a time unanticipated. ;o)
I will say, though, I often notice wholes (intended) in yer fallacies.
Er….when’s the weekend?
And yes; I’ve noticed you like to say such about Ike, Perfesser. ;o)
Re watching a long YouTube clip: doncha have free software to download YT videos, or long stuff WYS (while you sleep)? Under the 1976 Copyright Act and the DMCA, it’s considered fairydust use.
I don’t know when’s the weekend (le weekend en Francais, but their calendar week begins on Monday, not on Sunday like our’n). We have a time white hole. Centuries have names. Decades, years, months, days, hours, minutes, & seconds all have names. But weeks don’t have names. They should and ought to. They could correspond to a pack of playing cards. Why doncha propose it at the next Bytegeist Webinar For Prolific Diaristes?
Uh…do I? I have a RealPlayer for music. It does seem like it would take forever to download one; can’t even remember how fast my processor is, to say the truth. WYS: I shut down at night so things don’t come outta the laptop to get me. Kinda like screwin’ the pet door shut now that a bear is visiting; same principle, ennit?
Ya callin’ me Hooked on Posting, son? Think how UnProlific I’ve been lately.
Decades don’t have names; except for the last one. ‘Jump You Fuckers Decade’.
G’night.
G’night. And thanks again.
I grew up in the … Fifties!
Fifties, Fifties, bo-bifties
Banana-fana fo-ifties
Mee-Mi-mo-mifties
Fifties!
There’s an Afghan war strategy?
Yes; at my #5.
But now, it’ll be all about limiting the damage until…(can’t finish the thought this morning, sorry).
Welcome. Bad news on the RoundUp-Ready front this mornin’, and yes…I’ll write it, since ‘life is what happens while yer busy writing other posts’…
The Widening Gyre’s got me down this mornin’. What have we wrought? How do we unwind it?
(Okay, there went fifteen minutes imagining…the possibilities.)
Haven’t read through comments yet, so forgive me if this is unnecessary – the following quote might need some explaining:
“Conservative MP Bob Stewart backed calls to ‘get our troops out as fast as possible’ but added: ‘It’s not easy to just pull up stumps.’”
This is cricket terminology for the end of a match, not some backbreaking effort to clear a field for planting.
Goes back to ‘Vitai Lampada’ by Henry Newbolt – ‘Play up, play up, and play the game!’
And then there was the first World War.
When will they ever learn?
When will they ev
Er learn?
My stars; thank you, juliania. I’d even meant to look up the allusion, it was so foreign to me. You and others so often have the keys that unlock more for me, for us. ;o)
Sorry to be late coming back; I’m writing up the hideous Monsanto news, and just can’t think of an ending that’s at all encouraging.
bless you in all things,
wd
What welcome was that again?
I just saw that a few seconds before I saw your reply to me. I confess. I had not read the replies before I posted this morning.
Well, it’s not so much that I confess, as that it’s painfully obvious.
In both Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. troops, female and male, were fighting for Iraqi men and Afghani men. And they still are.
Disgusting.
Those things seem like more of a war wish list than a war strategy.
Mmmm, yes. Its meaning was that those drives for profit, plus the ‘ha ha!’ were more important than some coherent overarching ‘strategy’ that could be sold to the voting/funding public. Sorry it was a bit bitter, but..how not, ncbb?
OCA email I also got. ;o(
Th’other day I had to wonder if the arsenicky rice reports (which OCA had the good sense not to report) aren’t a deliberate distraction and subliminal suggestion that favors Monsanto.
So, consider this a comment on your future diary from a time traveler, and in advance: rec’d.
;o)
When Obama asked the Pentagon for a strategy, they did their usual Powerpoint bullshit. Obama sent it back and asked them what they could do and what did they need to do it. They sent back more Powerpoint bullshit. So Obama’s staff sat down and identified objectives and asked the Pentagon what they needed to do it. They told him what they needed, and he told them that they would have it if they could demonstrate that they could bring things to a close by 2014. After less than a year, McChrystal complained that Obama had not provided the troops he needed and was cashiered. Petraeus was demoted and told to go work the plan that he (Petraeus) created. Petraeus apparently complained that he was not succeeding because of poor intelligence. Obama sent him to fix that at CIA.
The commanders could not deliver what they promised because their doctrine of counterinsurgency does not and has not ever worked for a foreign empire without genocidally brutal repression. And then only temporarily. Instead of learning that in Vietnam, the US military doubled down twice over. They’ve had the troops. They’ve had the time. They’ve gone far more brutal that most Americans want to know. And they did not deliver the results.
It’s the equivalent of Vietnam 1972 and it’s over in Afghanistan — all but the withdrawing.
Now watch as the GOP tries a Hail Mary for Mitt by pulling the old Eisenhower “end the war in” move they pulled on Truman in Korea. And that Nixon pulled on the Democrats in 1968. The question is whether that will cause too much cognitive dissonance for a lot of the warhawk GOP.
The next predictable step will be the “stab in the back” theory that the peacemongers interfered in a true victory.
And then we get to watch the Shanghai Cooperation Organization countries try to deal with the situation. Time for the collaborators to switch from English to Chinese and Hindi.
Robert A. Parry , consortium news:
“Bush and his top political advisers, including Defense Secretary Dick Cheney, insisted on the ground war as a dramatic climax to a story line designed to thrill the American people – and get them to embrace warfare again as an exciting part of the national character.
On Feb. 28, 1991, just hours after the fighting stopped, (Bush gave the public a fleeting glimpse of his secret agenda when he celebrated the ground war victory by blurting out the seemingly incongruous declaration, “By God, we’ve kicked the Vietnam Syndrome once and for all.”
What Americans didn’t know at the time – and still don’t understand today – is that this first U.S. war with Iraq had become less about liberating Kuwait and more about consolidating domestic public support behind a new phase of the American Empire, one that continues to this day.”
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/022811.html
So (sez the Afghani)…
The foreign-speaking foreigner in the foreign uniform with the foreign religion is supposed to be “us”…
The guy who looks like me, talks like me, dresses like me, and has the same religion as me is supposed to be “them”…
Because Freedom.
And our war plan is that we stay there and shoot the shit out of the natives until that makes sense to them?
Got it. Victory is just around the corner.
Ya forgot: ‘As long as the public doesn’t care *too very much* that they are…kinda…passively…opposed to it all, and don’t believe ‘it was worth it’ (the fuck kinda polling question is that, anyway?).
Because Freedom.
I like it. Patriotic, seems just on the verge of giving a reason…and has utterly no meaning. Yes, I like it; thanks, Dave. Did you ever get the photo I sent? For months, it just pops back up in my Drafts thingie, no matter how many times i send it. Zombie email. ;o)
I’m not taking your meaning, friend.
They were late, mon. I’d already read for three or four hours and was saving stuff to paste in when Ronnie’s (rather uninformative) on came in.
Yep, in a way that Grenada couldn’t do.
Sent you an email
Pretty much explains why counter-insurgency never works for empire. And then if you hire them as contractors, they eventually come back and sack your Rome.
“Petraeus apparently complained that he was not succeeding because of poor intelligence. Obama sent him to fix that at CIA.”
I have to say, THD, the dual meaning of that is seriously hilarious.
I did have to google the SCO after seeing you mention it on Tuttle’s piece. All of which makes your *fianl* sentence almost too wryly amusing.
Thanks for the good comment, and the equivalency: it’s sure not hard to imagine.
I’m not a reporter, so I don’t subscribe to any feedlots. I think I’d go mad if I did.
But stuff sometimes comes, like this from last week…
Just skimmed thru so far, but, just have one nit to pic
IMHO, it depends on perspective, they actually have won.
Now, who’s the “they”? These guys (just from fiscal year 2010). And, how much is the total haul – or maybe heist is a better word? As of right this minute, it’s $567 Billion, 660 million … annnnnd counting
Agreed but how can we get some to study pols and wallstreet?
You have the right to pick that nit, john; it was backwards thinking, so thanks. What a page that is! On the right: ‘Is the Penatagon tapping reporters’ phones?’. Arrgh.
But yes, it seems we’re all pretty much agreed that it’s War, Inc., but as investment opportunities to score Our Resources God put in, on, or under… the wrong dirt, as well. Not a heist, dear; bidness.
‘There’s plenty o’ good money to be made
By the supplyin’ the army wi’ the tools o’ the trade..’
They don’t seem to appreciate love bombs.
Ingrates.
My Dada-esque artist friend Anthony Freda (who kindly allows me to use his work) calls this one ‘Humanitarian Bombs’. One of his best, imo, Imka.
Afghanization is failing even more spectacularly than Vietnamization did not so terribly long ago. Our so called leaders simply refuse to learn from their predecessors’ mistakes; instead they try to do it right.
The strategy was always fundamentally flawed. When the majority of people really don’t want an occupying power around, and are willing to die to get that power out, then that power WILL eventually be forced out unless it exterminates the whole population.
As for the hoopla in the UK over the untruths being bandied about by both the British and American administrations,
“In war, truth is the first casualty.”
–Aeschylus
That quote kept pinging in my brain yesterday, Barbarian; thanks for bringing it.
So now…John McCain is the dirty fucking hippie?
Consider the implications. Rabbit Hole stuff.
Good point! Within limits. You do remember the Northern Alliance, do you not? It made the invasion of Afghanistan “doable.”
@Mafr @60: Yes, and I remember making the statement, at the time: “Oh shit! We’ve learned the wrong lesson. They (we) think Iraquis are weenies, and Americans can do anything. Oooh, God, we’ll rue this day.
Think what a non-sequitur the term counter-insurgency is when applied to a people in their own home.
Excellent. Rec’d.
“War is an extension of politics by other means (von Clausewitz).” If you’re not winning the politics, you’re not winning the war.
Wars don’t stop when one side is defeated. They stop when the defeated side decides to stop throwing blood and treasure after a lost cause … and their leaders have no face left to save.
Thank, wigwam, and well said.
In related news, lol, Panetta just un-surged.…the surge. OMG. Guess he took McCain’s advice. DFH McCain. ;o)
Hi Wendy,
But is this “peace with honor”? It’s very important that we and everyone else know that we still have our testicles.
Absolutely, wigwam! We are the Weiniest Waggers of All Time! Did we not kill Bin Laden?”
(night, dear) ;o)
Obama keeps saying we, the people who worked so hard to put him and so many other Democrats in office 2005-08, are the ones who have to effect change.
First, he said “make me do it.” Now he says no one inside government can do it. It’s totally up to the rest of us.
You remember us, don’t you? We’re the ones whose only political power under the Constitution is to vote in people who promise to do what we want and vote out the people who do not do what we want.
Only now, it’s devolved into vote Republican or Democrat or vote for a sure loser.
Gee, if only there had been some way to let this Democrat and his fellow Democrats on the hill know that we wanted out of the Bush wars–and a lot of the Patriot Act too.
Been a Democrat by osmosis since age 5, when I stayed up watching my father anxiously awaiting the outcome of the Presidential election because he was so intent on a Democratic President that he never noticed I was still awake. (Or did he?)
This lifelong Democrat is so looking forward to voting for “sure loser” third party candidate Jill Stein in November. Sure, she’ll lose. But, I am voting to send a message to Corporate Party Tweedledee and Corporate Party Tweedledum that “the Left has nowhere else to go” meme is dead.
If you run like a Democrat, govern like one.