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So what do we have going on here? I confess that Cheri’s saying that the Secret Service cuffed both of their hands, and I assume they cuffed them to their chairs in addition to that, it really pissed me off even more. It’s akin to being in a straightjacket, by my lights: you can’t scratch an itch, wipe your eyes, blow your nose… Neither of them have mentioned bathroom breaks, and I’d like to know about that, too, especially after the hideous stuff TarheelDem was forced to go through while he was in jail in Chicago.
FDL’s AitchD had asked about charges on yesterday’s thread, so I dug up info on ‘disorderly conduct’ in New York State, and while it’s called ‘a violation’, not ‘a crime’, it seems that it’s become a catch-all for anything that might bother a cop. This page indicates that a violation is punishable by up to 15 days in jail, but usually a violation is penalized with a fine and community service.
But: it does NOT seem to be a charge that would require detention ‘in an undisclosed location’ (I hope we hear more about that).
One might think that since the Secret Service were involved, and they want to make this a Federal beef besides a local or state one, they might use the ugly HR 347 that AitchD recalled, and that we spoke about here last March. To me, it looked like a major new abridgement to free speech, which freedom has been so dramatically curtailed by the burgeoning security and police state in the US.
Others may have covered this, but I reckoned that as Cheri had mentioned the corporate sponsorship of the Commission on Presidential Debates, and the fact that three sponsors have pulled out, I’d check it out.
These are the sponsors listed as of today:
~Anheuser-Busch Companies
~The Howard G. Buffett Foundation
~Sheldon S. Cohen, Esq.
~Crowell & Moring LLP
~International Bottled Water Association (IBWA)
~The Kovler Fund
~Southwest Airlines
The ‘Leadership’ members can be seen at the link.
Any of you busy beavers can check them out; I only know a few of the corporations, and a few of the ‘Leadership’ members, especially the dead ones…
Dylan Byers at Politico covered the several corporations who did pull their sponsorship, apparently mainly objecting to Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson being disallowed to be allowed on the stage with those other two hunks of political and policy pulchritude and pertinence, the RomalamaBombalamaDingDong twins.
“Philips is the third and by far the largest of the original ten sponsors to pull its support, following similar decisions by British advertising firm BBH New York and the YWCA over the last week. Their decision to do so is seen as the result of intense lobbying efforts by advocacy organizations — primarily Libertarian supporters of former Gov. Gary Johnson — who oppose the exclusion of third-party candidates and who therefore believe the Commission on Presidential Debates is an anti-Democratic institution.” [snip]
“George Farah, the executive director of Open Debates, one of the groups leading the charge for debate reform, celebrated the news.
“This is a triumph for the debate reform movement,” Farah told POLITICO. “These former sponsors no longer want to be affiliated with an anti-democratic commission that defies the wishes of the American people.”
Byers writes that the three pull-outs comes at great cost to the Commission, which is a 501(c) (3) and relies on corporate funding. (Debate sponsors, he says, get tickets to the debates but do not have any input on the questions, format, venue, etc., nor do they receive face-time with the candidates.) But the poor Executive Director of the CPD must have been a mite miffed:
“The work we’ve done for 25 years is in very large part due to our extremely generous sponsors, who believe the debates are an invaluable, civic education forum,” Janet Brown, the executive director of the Commission told POLITICO. “The sponsors get virtually nothing in return, and we are deeply sorry to see them attacked by people who have issues with the CPD.”
They get nothing, you see, except deciding who gets in, and if any candidate again gets allowed in under the current restrictions and manages to take votes away from the Corporate Flavor of the Day again, like Perot did, you can bet your Sweet Aunt Fanny’s ’69 Cadillac that they’ll change the rules again…unless Americans put up a Major Ruckus.
At least CBS asked on October 15: ‘Do the debates unfairly shut out third parties?’ You can read the arguments between George Farah of the organization Open Debates the CPD and here. Perhaps now that Stein and Honkala have been arrested, you’ll see it on the Nightly News…unless there’s breaking news of the Kardashian Kind, of course. The OpenDebates website is here, and you can read their call on behalf of ‘18 Pro-democracy groups who are calling on the PDC to make public the secret debate contract that was negotiated by the Obama and Romney campaigns.
Bruce Lesnick at Counterpunch has a piece in which a Socialist enters the debates. ;o) And remember, Stein and Gary Johnson will debate today at 7pm EST/4pm PST on Independent Voter Network.
Most Americans have been blithely sailing along with the illusion that elections imply freedom, or even choice, even as so many either don’t vote, or…hold their noses and vote for the least crap candidate. It’s time that we wake them up.
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
~ Frank Zappa .
Please be as Disorderly and Inconvenient as you can be in the name of Bringing Democracy to this nation. America needs your help…desperately.
83 Comments
Wow, Cheri is quite calm about her ordeal. I’d be screaming bloody murder.
The Gary Johnson angle is quite interesting. This is one of those issues that every patriotic merkin oughta be up in arms about. The problem seems to be that the masters of the universe know we can see at least a little bit of that brick wall Zappa’s talking about, but they do not give a flying fuck.
How right you are, Carnac. I didn’t hear a peep about it on the morning news but there was this: Obama has time in his busy weekend to call in and comment on the Mariah/Nicki American Idol dustup.
“We are fighting for our democracy…” Cheri Honkala, Vice-Presidential Candidate, Green Party, October 18th, 2012!
Can you imagine if Romney or Obama were arrested for disorderly conduct while trying to enter Hofstra to participate in the debate? Can you? Probably not.
Exclusion says it all about the duopoly.
Surely that last was from the Onion? I didn’t want to sit through the ad… ;o)
Women likely learned that when Pat Schroeder cried a li’l bit, she was forced to withdraw from the Presidential race. Had it not seemed to be a major sign of weakness from the owner of actual huevos and a yoni, she may have been the fist female President.
It may be that the same metrics would be visited upon expressing too much rage and outrage. I could *not* find the stand alone video of Stein describing event on Democracy Now; she seemed almost too sanguine, really.
I sincerely hope we can make the illusion too expensive for them soon. We do have the Power; hope more get that, and use it. Soon.
But their behavior is always exemplary, TomThumb. Of the highest order; almost never a moment’s inconvenience to their Masters. But it was fun to picture them Acting Up for a minute, wearing Super Hero outfits and blocking traffic, say… ;o)
Nope, not gonna have no Perots ruining stuff for the Greater Vampire Squid.
So, medical oriented folks, I’m hearing that the women weren’t allowed a rest room break for at least 8 hours?
Also of note:
A critically important post, wendy.
It is not simply about exclusion, it is also about the roaring silence of the Media … about both what happened and the clear implications of that exclusion and the means by which it was accomplished.
Were the American people, the people themselves, to be fully apprised of what happened to Stein and Honkala, as well as the facts surrounding the Commission on Presidential Debates, the “contract”, the identification of those who “sponsor” it, AND its clear and indisputable purpose of LIMITING meaningful choice and the democratic necessity of informing the people of ALL options which are THEIR options, the people’s options, including their RIGHT to know of and HEAR not just “two”, but ALL of those options, then it must be considered that this election “season” should properly raise more questions than it answers. And, those questions properly deal, primarily, with the issue of informed consent and the legitimacy of a “governing” elite and “government”, itself, when that elite have NO interest, whatever, in seeking or serving that fundamental and necessary consent and the will, the “instruction” which it, according to the documents which establish the operating principles upon which this nation was founded and which obtain, despite being called “quaint” or considered to be, by the ruling elite, “old-fashioned” or no longer “applicable” … is sent from the people to those who must swear an oath to uphold the Constitution of this nation as “REPRESENTATIVES” OF the people and NOT of narrow or vested interests of the few …
Recommended to the most serious consideration of the ENTIRE Firedoglake community, and indeed, to central attention and deep concern of the whole of the people of the United States of America.
Enemies at the “gate”, declared and obvious, are one thing, but true enemies from within, those who would erode and destroy the democracy which this nation’s people have stood for, have bled for, and have died for … are another thing entirely … such enemies are here, now, in ascendency and in power, further, they control most of the so-called Fourth Estate, that is the media, the source of information in society, even as they control, as you have demonstrated above, the very process of “confirming” a sham “democracy” … from top to bottom, they control most of the wealth, the “opportunities”, the ballots, which too often are now “digital” and the “counting” of those ballots … those votes.
Perhaps, if we are truly honest, with ourselves and each other, it is time, even past time, to share a new definition of “high crimes”, “misdemeanors”, and … “treason”?
If the test of “most foul” is now not reached, then we may properly fear for the future, of ourselves, our children, their children, and all the generations which may come after us.
Let it not be our legacy, to be remembered as those who did not care enough, to know enough, to understand enough, and who failed to have courage enough to stand, to bleed, and, if necessary, to die in the efforts of preserving the rightful heritage of all who shall inherit this world as our heirs, as our ongoing and most important responsibility.
DW
There’s a joke in there somewhere.
The debates this year may prove to be the turning or tipping points, thanks to Stein and Honkala, to Democracy Now!, and burning tip reporters like wendydavis here. *Waves Hi!*
Dr. Stein would not have fared so well on these teevee showcases, she’s not groomed for it, it takes a lot of wasted money to learn how to act on teevee. It’s far better that she has been excluded. Besides, would we (I mean us) want her to become someone she’s not, and possibly slip into forgetting that it’s very normal to gulp, gasp, snort (too much)?
Big Issue That’s Not An Issue: They are on 39 official ballots as candidates for President and Vice President of the United States, met the threshold for matching federal funds, yet they do not receive protection by the Secret Service like You-Know-Whos receive such protection. Hey, right after H.R. 347 was passed and made law, Rick Santorum received Secret Service protection cuz he was on ballots for primaries.
Somebody over 6′ 5″ and weighing 250+: please network each other and ask Dr. Stein if she would accept your services as security angels for the next debate if she intends to try to enter the premises.
I hate my height. ;o(
One imagines, ysd, that by the time the “International Bottled Air Association (the “I be a a …”) joins the “throng” of corporate “sponsors”, that the joke will have been fully understood, if not appreciated, as having been “on” us …
Only time will tell … it might be a “silent” winter, however, not even the polar ice shall be making too many cracks about it, one imagines … (confound that imagination).
DW
Thanks very much for putting this on, wendydavis. Here is a bit more explanation that Jill gave at the beginning of yesterday’s DemocracyNow special:
“…AMY GOODMAN: Did you get to see the debate in the warehouse?
DR. JILL STEIN: Absolutely not.
AMY GOODMAN: And then they released you as soon as the debate was over?
DR. JILL STEIN: No, they held us for about another half-hour, hour, and then they released us, telling us that our car was waiting in the parking lot. It was actually a Secret Service car, apparently, that was waiting in the parking lot. We didn’t—we weren’t allowed to make a phone call. There was no phone that was working. They wouldn’t—we didn’t have ours. We had given our phones to our assistant, so it was—you know, it took quite a bit of work to be able to borrow a cellphone from someone in a gas station—you know, there we are in the freezing cold—to even be able to find our staff.
AMY GOODMAN: They didn’t give you an opportunity to make a call during this entire period of your detention?
DR. JILL STEIN: No, they did at one point. They allowed me to return a call to our lawyer. But at the time, we didn’t know when we would be released, so there were no arrangements made for a pickup. And they actually told our staff that they would be arrested if they continued to wait on site, so they had to leave.”
I didn’t think she was sanguine at all. She seemed visibly upset but composing herself for the coming encounter in the expanded debate, where she did extremely well. What she was describing was that after their release, as they tried to contact people for help leaving they were not given any help whatsoever, having to borrow a cellphone from someone at a gas station (?!)
There is no argument that Cheri is the seasoned demonstrater of the two, and it was wise of Jill to let her ‘orchestrate’ what they were doing during their protest. It was also wise of her to pick Cheri as her runningmate.
Recommended!
Ooh, I hope I hadn’t given the impression that it was so, mzchief. I was just hoping we’d hear one way or the other. Partially what made me think of it was that while my son was at school in a SW Colorado town, police picked him up, took him to their station, where six likely bored cops, had some fun with him.
The chained him for six hours of questioning, claiming someone answering his description was wanted for rape in southern NM. They wouldn’t let him even have a wee, water, a phone call, and hadn’t let him grab a jacket from his car, nor lock it. I forget what finally caused them to release him, but they dumped him him back at his car without a word of apology. He’s black, and seriously reckoned that was what made it so entertaining for them.
I’m quivering with rage and damp eyes thinking about it. Yes, they should have been sued, but he would not have it. He, after all, had to live there until he graduated, and the payback would have been harsh. Please understand the violence that I imagined for them.
But no, again, my friend, this was just me wondering if it had gone like this for Cheri and Jill. It does fit with the bullying and punitive nature of all this, imo.
Here’s a dark look at fusion centers created in that magic 2003 year. The ‘thought crimes’ section is…well, you know.
Yes, the good old days when the Secret Service was under Treasury. Boot-legging, all that.
Well said WendyDavis.
Considering the system we have now, I’m in favor of that. How do we make it happen?
On the companion piece to this story yesterday (Stein and Honkala’s original arrest), we spoke of the media silence. Hotflashcarol checked out the google, and I did this morning. Really not much news except the Leftish blogosphere.
On Jill’s website, they seem glad of the coverage, but I think they’re dreaming from what I’ve seen. Most of the coverage is AP overseas, and rather shallow, at that.
I wince a bit at your words about putting ourselves on the line and bleeding, though. Because of physical limitations, I’m relegated to the absurd status of keyboard warrior, which not a few members here have chided me about (Occupying Mancos, CO isn’t fraught with danger). I most often try to avoid saying ‘fuck you’, but I do think it now and again. ;o)
The quote you have in mind may be this bold one shekissesfrogs turned us onto one day a year or so ago:
But yes, getting the word out is hard, but necessary. More independent media, and as Cheri said, we need help from nations abroad.
A few ironies popped into my mind, yellowsnapdragon.
One is that bottled waterr is not only a con (most brands are laden with bacteria and other foul goodies); the vast plastic waste often ends up in the ocean and joins the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, or its cousins, and it breaks down in the sun and is ruining ecosystems all over the planet as the it coats everything as the slime falls… Reading the corp’s name also made me wonder if they mightn’t have given these women a bottle or two to wee in, though that really doesn’t work for women, and the openings are probably too small for me, to boot.
Sigh up on sigh, grrr upon grrr.
Thank you for correcting my misapprehension, juliania. I had clicked into the stand alone video while grabbing the link that DN was holding the debate right then (hat tip: Peasant Party), but was in a hurry to get back to add the link. I’d thought that she might have been used to holding her emotions in check due to her profession, though I confess I dunno what sort of Doc she is. I’ve obviously paid little attention to her candidacy, or any of the others until recently.
And I will say that I’ve recently read a few pieces by your friend Ralph Nader that were pretty good, so I do apologize for thinking the one piece that seemed so pro-OBomba may have meant he was suffering from age. (His court-jester one today at Counterpunch wasn’t one in my mind, but different things strike readers differently, of course.)
Not really on topic, but here’s another quote from another great political philosopher
LOL! See jaango’s post of yesterday to hear what lies I report, not to mention how bad my Google Translator Spanish is! But…wendydavis waves ‘hi’ back, and gives two hand ‘twinkles’.
Wish I could speak to her speaking performance, but many supporters here thought she was good. I may have to break down and watch a few of the interviews, or the debate from yesterday…always so pressed for time…
Good point on no SS protection, and thanks for bringing those facts. Also so for the shout-out for gigundo protectors.
I always hated my height, too. Still, it’s the genes we were dealt. Be glad you didn’t over-compensate with macho stuff, and instead took a whole different road, dear one. [Added]: And I didn’t go for a basketball career. lol. You and juliania are providing such good literary education on things I missed over my life. I love the hell outta it (when I can keep up, that is.) ;o)
I listened to the last round of the DN expanded debate and I *did* think Jill Stein did very well. Since I didn’t watch, I concede that the visual cues may lead to a different conclusion. I thought she said all the right things in the right way and she was likeable. FWIW.
Thank you, cassiodorus, though I didn’t really say much. The comments, imo, are usually what make a thread valuable, and this is no exception. Yesterday’s on their arrest was full of good ones, too.
Well, john in sacramento, I reckon that we keep trying to advance the Great Awakening and advocate for the OWS (and more) Spiritual Insurrection that is coming…cuz it must. ;o) In addition, we call out all the evil that has caused us to get where we are, and especially the events of the day.
Speaking of which, I kept forgetting to look at the MotherShip to see if anyone covered this story. I went pack a couple pages a couple hours ago, and didn’t see anything. Did any of you see anything earlier?
That may be the way to help get this story abroad more fully. Should I have provided more forceful tags that could help? I’m crap at tags.
Re: Pat Schroeder. There was the precedent of Ed Muskie.
Re: We Need to Bring Democracy to America. Yes, indeed we do. Have needed to from the beginning. Remember the care which the founding planters and merchants went to in calling it a republican form of government and treating the idea of “democracy” as if it were a synonym for “anarchy” as if it were a synonym for “mob rule”.
I think that that at some point in the future, some folks in the Secret Service will have some ‘splainin’ to do. Hopefully, we will still be alive when that occurs.
Keeping calm and proceeding with good legal counsel will serve Stein and Honkala (and the future of democracy) well.
I find more Democratic Party members looking at the future and seeing the necessity to confront the powers that be. It is looking more likely that the next four (or more) years will be as tumultous as were the 1930s and 1960s regardless of the outcome of this election. And I hope that Stein, Honkala, and other third party folks will hang in there for the long haul.
Recommended.
From the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/18/jill-stein-arrest-green-party-presidential-debate
Keep up the good work!
OT thinking of SD tonight. One of his songs. Keep it light enough for travel.
Time to celebrate. People are opening their eyes.
I just watched the Johnson/Stein debate on ivn – great! It was like seeing live tv gearing up must have been in the early days – but oh my, even with all the glitches – this is more like it! Gary Johnson was good, very good in fact – I’d forgotten what a good speaker he is. Both of them could run rings around the O and the R, so of course, we won’t see that happen! But Jill invited Gary to come to Monday’s democracynow.org debate – it would be very good if he did.
Pat wept, Muskie was baited by Donald Segretti. If I recall right, the news used movie film (portable video recorders were not yet available), so there was a significant time lag between Muskie’s sadness and what showed up on teevee later.
Who knows the truth? He was standing outside in the cold of New Hampshire and it was snowing. His brave face let the snow fall on his cheeks. Without DNA testing, it was impossible to distinguish New England snow from salt tears. It didn’t matter, Segretti’s dirty letter became the undeniable microscopic tear on Muskie’s cheek.
And Nixon danced a jig on the steps of the same train car where the Treaty of Versailles was signed.
I watched her on Democracy Now! during the first debate. In her first turn at responding, she was inhaling through her nose quite loudly and nearly for every breath. I’ll guess someone pointed it out to her, and she repressed it almost completely.
She’s wonderful as a breath of honest air, but she has no experience that would help her as president. She would be eaten alive.
So what? If I vote, I’ll write in Jill Stein’s name — she’s not on the NC ballot.
Aye, that is the Cicero quote, wendy.
In the struggle ahead, we, each of us, all must seek to do what best moves understanding and humanity …
You are, without doubt or exception, among the very best of warriors, for you wield words which move hearts and minds with enduring beauty and deft precision.
DW
Nothing on the Mother Ship …
and here’s why:
“Reach half a million unique thought-leaders, early adopters and taste making influentials!
Firedoglake and its associated publications attract a large, affluent, educated audience of opinion makers and engaged community leaders. It also attracts a select audience of legislative decision makers and policy makers in Washington, D. C.”
Yep, that’s pretty much it.
Well done, Wendy. You’ve pointed out fascist censorship in action. First, they ignore you…
Recc’d.
From my 1965 centerfold: “AitchD is 5′ 9″ in the shade, weighs 167 lbs. and sports a 31-inch waist. Likes golf courses, archery fields, chess boards, museums, pool halls, and soul bars. Thrills to Sandy Koufax’s strikeouts, Jim Brown’s 100-yard rushing games with three linebackers clinging to him, Bill Russell’s blocking Wilt Chamberlain’s shots, and The Beatles. Hates waiting for the next Stanley Kubrick movie.”
Good-o on the Guardian, TomThumb; yesterday’s was…boilerplate AP.
And as for the song: how appropriate. And as to The Southern Dragon:
I do not know him as you all do, but nonetheless, the road he will travel is a hard one, and I wish him well in any choices he makes regarding his treatment…or not. Death should be our constant companions once we’re past a certain age. It can act to focus us on what’s truly meaningful in our lives, as well as how we choose to spend our remaining days when we see the end may be in sight.
This may echo his philosophy, from what others have said about him. All our love to him.
My mind would need refreshing on Muskie, THD, but now that you mention it, I do have an image of emotions let out.
Dunno about the Dems, so I’ll keep my own counsel on that. But I’ve kept a blogging Help word.doc since long ago at TPM Cafe days. Full of quotes, html hints and clues, passwords, etc. And among the files, this gem:
““America, conceived in the sin of imperialism, born into the iniquity of slaveholding, rapacious of a contintent, covetous of world power…it’s very easy fall into that liberal guilt, flogging oneself like penitentes into inactivity. It’s too much to ever be able to change. My own moral sense is trapped inside a profoundly immoral society that perversely taught me my moral values as a kid, drummed them into me, and betrayed me as an adult. Yep, that’s the American experience.”
~ TarheelDem
;o) Thanks for reading, and for commenting, my friend. Know you’ve been memorialized before your time.
Oh, thank you for all of that, juliania. I liked Johnson well on certain issues (we got NM news only, for so long here), but not others. But yes, he’s well-spoken, and on the Big Ticket Items, is one with whom we could make common cause, I believe, even if not as President, but as the head of an important constituency.
When he came out before any politician for legalizing MJ (for most of the right reasons, I’d add),he took a monumental risk to advance his beliefs.
Lord love a duck, he truly was one of our best philosophers, wasn’t he? His speaking of Xianists who love the unborn, but refuse help to them *as children* always got my goat. Forced pregnancies are…another evil.
thanks, john in sacramento; and good luck there on so many ballot issues that have huge import for you and in some cases, the rest of the nation (GMO labeling for one, union paycheck initiative, etc.
Heh. Colorado, too, as a harbinger of things to come in steps toward legalizing MJ. I got a call from Susan Sarandon earlier urging me to vote for the amendment. But…come to think of it, I got one from Mike Huckabee yesterday about supporting candidates who are working against gay marriage. ;o)
Awesome comment and imagery; and thanks for the refresher.
I’m glad to hear it, ysd. I confess I found myself wincing at Cheri’s poor grammar in using ‘I’ rather than ‘me’ twice on this video. I admit I’m a grammar snob, but I do hope someone with her best interests at heart shows her how to drop the other subject/object, and see what’s left as the correct pronoun.
When Marilyn Monroe did it, it was…quaint. ;o)
That solace is too kind of you, DW. For tonight, I’ll try to accept it.
Oh.
;o)
Very true and very sobering.
Thank you for posting this, Wendy.
Then quitcher bitchin’, amigo. ;oP Some of us should have it so lucky!
Ta for the start of the quote again, Barbarian.
It’s a serious idea, and timely.
I might just end up voting for these good women, timesthree.
And er…um…that’s wendydavis to you, sweet patootie.
However combinations or associations [political parties] of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.–George Washington, from his Farewell Address to the nation.
Hence, my complete disdain and disgust for the grasping, self-interested party hacks that feed the machinery that destroys Our Liberty.
Our liberty, people’s lives, cultures, health and well-being far too often, as well as the life of our good planet. They seem not to know that they’ll finally be harmed by their cavalier, short-sighted deeds as well.
I’d never seen that quote, F.Campbell; thank you.
The more I read/hear of these two women, the farther I am leaning in that direction myself. My state is a red state, which really does afford one some leeway.
Really courageous women these two. My vote would be a way to say to them both – “You earned it.”
Another excellent addition, wd.
I don’t always comment, but I do always read with appreciation.
Welcome, bootsie, and thank you, as well.
I’d mainly read what others hear had said about these women, but they really are demonstrating who they are, and who and what they stand for.
Sleep well. ;o)
And for those who care:
The Tigers swept the Yankees in Game Four tonight!!! On to the World Series!!!
And all this time I thought I was just a garden variety sweet potato.
Howzabout I just call you Morpheus?
Take that, you, you, wendydavis, you!
PS. Stein and Honkala have my vote and I’ve convinced a few others to vote for them also. They are on the ballot in my state, fortunately.
I’ve been a third-party voter since Clinton, although I did vote for a Democrat or two, here and there. No more. As the party that happily enables Obama, they are completely dead to me.
Fools who want candidates who won’t bother to disclose their financial positions deserve the President they won’t get.
Seriously – there must be some minimal standard, that includes disclosure of some kind, right?
But no! Yammering righteousness is the new black.
The people and plans for a way forward? Just who are they in Stein’s world? Who is Sec Def? Who is Sec Treasury?
OpenSecrets sez Northwoods Advertising is Stein’s largest expenditure. And who is that? Bill Hillsman.
All the above bolded peeps; are they not reviled on these pages?
Jill Stein hired the same guy who put those people in place at some time – recently. The same damn operative. Get it?
Cornel West is voting for President Obama.
He indicated he was forsaking Stein for the following reason.
“.. it’s strategic in terms of the actual possibilities and real options available for poor and working people.”
Yes!
http://www.vice.com/read/cornel-west-plans-to-vote-for-obama-in-november-and-protest-his-policies-in-february
Has Stein broken any financial disclosure laws? If not, come back when you have more than innuendo.
I’m supposed to judge Stein because she hired the same firm that other politicians hired? I’m impressed that she had the business sense to hire someone with proven results.
What do you mean “The people and plans for a way forward”? She’s made her positions known, and since when did not naming potential appointees at this stage of the game become a negative mark? Do you bother to judge whomever you support by the same standards?
What’s with this “fools” shit? Look in the mirror. I don’t know about “yammering righteousness” being “the new black” but I do know you happen to be a powerful practitioner of it.
Finally, some good news!
I really needed that….
He’s really stretching it with this one. The simple answer is they hired a firm with experience. That’s all that means.
Candidates don’t usually discuss cabinet selections before they’re elected because it can be illegal, or at the least, potentially give the appearance of being illegal. Romney got called out on this recently.
It’s ironic that West’s show in Chicago, Obama’s town, just got cancelled.
Tavis is pissed off:
http://blackagendareport.com/content/tavis-smiley-responds-cancellation-%E2%80%9Csmiley-west%E2%80%9D-chicago
West was the only black media figure to critique Obama on air openly, and now poof. Vapor. It’s like West keeps taking punches from the man and asks for more…
Me and Cornel will have to agree to disagree on this one, I’m afraid.
Thanks for that info, marym in IL. I didn’t know it could be potentially illegal.
I did know that candidates don’t do this as a rule, Romney’s misstep not withstanding, and expecting Stein to do so is disingenuous.
My belief is that until many more people *do* start voting their consciences, and are prisoners of fear and not hope*, we’ll keep electing Presidents who aren’t worthy of the job, and don’t have our interests in their hearts or minds, but just in their mouths during campaign season.
But I was very heartened to see that Bruce Dixon will vote Green this year, and his announcement seems to embody this good quote:
Interesting news, oldgold. AitchD brought a link yesterday from the editorial staff at The Nation endorsing OBomba. It torqued my mind a bit to read it, not only the laundry list of wrongs committed, policies avoided, the ‘make him do it’ bullshit 2.0, but the mistaken history they underpinned much of it with.
One point Cornell made was that Campaign Romney is speaking far differently than he ever governed, which is certainly so. How he would govern isn’t proven yet, but it sure damned well is with this President, and we will ‘make him do’ nothing better, imo. This year I considered not voting for a Presidential candidate, so tired of holding my nose, then filling in the little square. Green it is this time.
It’s great news, jest, and Detroit and all of Michigan can sure use something to celebrate. I forget, are you in MI? Sorry that my memory is swiss cheesey…
I’m so tired of hearing “Vote against your values now in the name of lesser evilism, and fight like hell for them later”. The few people who actually bother to fight like hell later are sneered at and told to STFU by not only the Obama Administration but also by their fellow liberals. Fight like hell later and you get called “Firebagger” and “emoprog”, condescending lectures about “your pony”, and blamed for subsequent electoral defeats for the Democratic Party.
Jill and Cheri it is for me.
A lot of times Perfesser West makes me think of Professor Irwin Cory.
There was a funeral for Hippie in 1967, yet there’s been none for democracy or the Constitution, and why is that?
Me too, vagreeen. Those here who (at least somewhat seriously) claimed that the O campaign must have paid Romney handsomely for choosing Paul Ryan as his running mate had a point, in that Ryan provided plenty of Scary Biscuits for O’s degrading base to get fired up again.
My main complaint is that every four years Fear trumps Conscience and Reason, and far too many vote *against* the Scariest Biscuit. To me, id nothing else, is just so goddam short-sighted, and that binary thinking will continue to ensure Chocolate or Vanilla Duopoly Rule.
I looked at a thread here from last night, and its author, seemingly a very smart and aware person, mentioned that were it not for SCOTUS appointments to come, he/she would vote ‘none of the above’. Given O’s appointments, I don’t see the argument myself. But then, I’m hoping for massive resistance as predicating revolutionary change, so… ;o)
But I’m looking into some of Panetta’s readying miltary pre-emptive responses to (Iranian??? booga-booga) cyber-attacks…and feeling queasy all over again.
Yup: the Green Women as Hope for democracy coming to America, and as walkinboots said: a reward for their commitment and bravery. And their walkin shoes…. ;o)
A coopla points if I may. Three, in fact.
First, Wendy, I didn’t say that you lied in Jaango’s thread.
What you did was broadly assume and then report misinformation: that in fact the Federal Criminal Investigation of Arpaio (which was dropped) and the Justice Department Lawsuit against Arpaio (which is ongoing) are one and the same, implying that the Federal Govt did not take any effective action against the Civil Rights abuses in Arizona. If you want to be honest, and report information, you first honestly report information whether it supports your argument or not. And when you make an obviosul mstake, admit it.
A simple recognition of the misreportage by you is all that’s necessary. Continuing to evade responsibility and try, passively aggressively, to twist your error into something else is deceptive.
What your lack of unconcern for accuracy says is that you aren’t really following what is happening in Arizona, which is a shame because the activism there demonstrates quite clearly that chicano and native American activists are making a difference in Arizona, combatting the implementation of punitive state laws and police enforcement actions. White middle class progressives should be coalescing with this progressive movement to fight injustice, rather than splintering off into an ineffectual third party “movement” that is being ignored by the MSM precisely because it is ineffectual and not really a movement at all.
Second, the alleged police mistreatment of Stein and Honkala sounds deplorable. This should and can be further investigated by citizen reporters if not by the MSM. One thing, the “8 hour” timeline can be easily established, even while reports of what supposedly occurred during the detention will be harder to establish. This is the case, primarily because no one else was arrested besides Stein and Honkala and thus besides the detainees and the cops there are apparently no first hand witnesses.
The bigger question is why weren’t more “activists” involved in this civil disobedience? A vibrant green movement should have and would had 50-100 activists, at least, willing to block the streets and take part in a real demonstration..
The mainstream media would not have ignored a real demonstration with that many arrests. 50-100 people in detention also would be able to credibly describe the conditions of the detention with a more credible affect than “he said/she said.” IOW, making it a story rather than what can be ignored as self- promoting hype (whether it is or not, which can’t be adequately verified)
The point is, where were all the Green supporters if this is a movement and not simply another once every four years Green Party vanity candidacy?
Third, the Libertarian Party succeeded in getting three corporate sponsors to pull out of the debate. This was done, apparently through activism.
The Green Party to date seems to be loosing out to the Libertarians in all phases of the (limited) third party game: polling, activism, and making a difference.
Ah, that was fun. I missed the Smothers Brothers back in the day (no time for teevee), but have loved the retrospective shows. Pretty brave antiwar activists, too, eh?
The perfesser reminded me of this guy:
No funeral for the Constitution. Hmmm. We keep hoping to resurrect it, and tweak it a bit for the better, not worser?
You Yam what You Yam, and that’s all that I know… ;o)
Sure, call me Morpheus; maybe it will allow me to remember more of my dreams.
I spent a few days watching/listening to brainwave videos in aid of…helping me, and I ran into one that claimed to stimulate the production of serotonin and DMT. The latter production was supposed to facilitate lucid dreaming; that would be fine with me. Didn’t after one take, but then mebbe once is not enough.
Turns out the painting was Morpheus and Iris, by Pierre-Narcisse Guérin. What do I know?
nothing, nothi
Said so succinctly, yet said so well, vagreen.
They pick whichever manipulative strategy that seems best-suited to neutralizing unwavering support for principle.
Just like their breathren on the other side, whom they love to hate, it’s all about winning, that’s all.
Don’t wince, wendy! Cheri’s got Jill’s back and she’ll appeal to those who don’t want someone who’s all up there in the academic stratosphere because she’s been where real things are happening, had to live out of her car for a bit. They’ve moved in different spheres, and personally I love to see the combo – wish more people could.
A point someone made was why weren’t there more demonstrators being arrested? I think that had to be planned, since the object of the involvement was to show that legitimate candidates for office were being kept out of the debate. Having a people demonstration was not what this was about, as assuredly they could have had plenty of support. Bravo to them for going it alone.
To your question on Jill’s background as a physician, wendydavis, she’s an internist, and her impressive bio of a different kind of activism from Cheri’s can be seen at
jillstein.org/bio – starting in 1998, I believe. Here’s the final paragraph, which supports my first one:
“Jill was born in Chicago and raised in suburban Highland Park, Illinois. She graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College in 1973, and from Harvard Medical School in 1979. Jill enjoys writing and performing music, and enjoys long walks with her Great Dane, Bandita. Dr. Stein lives in Lexington with her husband, Richard Rohrer, also a physician. She has two sons, Ben and Noah, who have graduated from college in the past few years.”
For me, the two women span the spectrum of what we would hope for in an administrative team. One might criticize one of them for falling short of the attributes of the other, but they complement each other well. Seeing them wrapped in the American flag warmed my heart.
The duplicate is a pale shadow of the first. Is it true that if I flag it, I can move it to trash in my edit thingie? Don’t wanna flag it needlessly as ‘inappropriate’, since it’s extremely appropriate. ;o)
My stars, the site’s slow today; had to try for about forty minutes to get in, ten for a comment to load.
T’was a much gentler rap on my grammar-elitist knuckles than I opened myself up to, juliania. While I do appreciate your take on the two women as complementary in terms of bios, it’s not about stratospheric education, it’s more about what sentence structure you heard growing up. Those patterns are very hard to change, and I do know that. But if she and I were friends, I’d still tell her, and show her the small trick for first person pronoun object/subject. And I was thinking of Dan Quayle and ‘potatoe’ as well. ;o)
Thanks for Jill’s doctor bio. Low-achiever, was she, lol?
And I will take your good advice about not wincing, try to internalize it a bit.
Exactly correct.
Full West quote here, emphasis mine:
I’m strategic. We have to tell that truth about a system that’s corrupt—both parties are poisoned by big money and tied to big banks and corporations. Speaking on that is a matter of intellectual integrity. American politics are not a matter of voting your moral conscience—if I voted my moral conscience it would probably be for Jill Stein. But it’s strategic in terms of the actual possibilities and real options available for poor and working people.
X2.
Short-term thinking–the bane of our time.
‘Twas gently meant, wendydavis, as I have deep down within the same sort winces you have – simply opened up an expansion of the comparison, I think. [Mine began with 'Winston tastes good like a cigarette should' being really outrageous back in the day when 'as' was the correct form. Now, one wouldn't shudder a bit, would one?] Four years of Latin and learning about the ablative absolute did a great deal for my own idolization of correct grammar, but I guess I got over my wincing in public early on, as a teenager coming to the Land of Opportunity where the rules were being bent, it did seem, with a lot of spirit. Them were the days.
I would recommend a link over at nakedcapitalism.com (did so on another thread) to an essay called ‘Cabrera for President.’ As they say, skipping down past the baseball stuff gets you to some powerful insights. Very much food for thought.
Sounds fun; Miguel won the triple crown this year; pretty damned rare. Ted Williams, and someone twice waaaay back. I’ll read when I get time.
I think you hit a bingo on the need for Stein and Honkala to go it alone, and I’d add for filming, no crowds were better. Yes to the flag, and being rousted from steps, *not* the street will be determinant in any ruling, imo.
Poked around a bit since I’d thought I’d seen mention of other protests happening at Hofstra that day, and there were a number of issues represented.
Rules bent in the land of the free, home of the…lol!
Kinda why I learned to love the First American women’s Seventh Generation ideas/measures, gesneri. Always look ahead to what *this that you propose* might produce.
I haven’t read the comments but she is right. If anyone still thinks we live in a Democratic Republic they are blind to all but their own trinkets.
…not to mention their *own* Sparkle Ponies*, eh wot, PP? ;o)
Police State and Security Apparatus run amok. As x3 says, ‘good thing John McCain is President!’
TWOOPH!
Ya just had to make me give ya one. (grins)
Well, I confess it’s nice to get one again. ;o)
Or better: Thanks; I needed that! (grin)
Juliania, did you maybe mean Arthur Silber’s ‘Cabrera for President’? I wondered why I hadn’t seen anything like that at NC today or yesterday), and let me fingers do the Googling.
If so, yes, plenty of food for thought, much of it chilling, of course. When Mr. wd teases about my being Prez for a week, a month…I always answer that I would simply turn into the monster I so loathe and fear.