Call me a crank. Call me an egalitarian ideologue. Hell, call me Ishmael if you’d like, but is this what democracy looks like to you? Do hand-picked celebrity protests help or hurt the eco-movement, especially if they’re staged a few days in advance of ones for everyday people? You be the judge.
On Wednesday I read at Censored News about the 48 people arrested in front of the White House protesting the XL Tarsands Pipeline (including Michael Brune of the Sierra Club), my first reaction was: what the hell? The long-planned protest was scheduled for Sunday!
I clicked over to tarsandsaction.org and read about the protest, then scrolled down to find the Wednesday 8:17 a.m. announcement of the Select Event. I checked into some of the tabs, comments, the early group photo, hand-picked participants* list with brief bios…and growled a little. It was hard not imagine that the organizers didn’t want to give too much advance notice or some well-meaning hippies might want to join them. Brrrrr; would they have been frozen out? Then I read the schedule: meet with police (gone now; might be usual), ‘media availability, and speeches in the park, and location: ‘…just east of the picture-postcard zone. Oy. Yep; it was hard not to further imagine that these folks’ll be orderin’ a mess o’ these photos for their holiday gifting.
Yes, yes; we all were so pleased that the Sierra Club had at last decided to suspend their crazy rule that forbids their officers or employees from engaging in acts of ‘civil disobedience’. Parenthetically, I’d read a Feb. 11 piece by Mike Roselle, Campaign Director of Climate Ground Zero earlier in the week that said that the rule was suspended for one day, although he seemed to believe that the discussion about that would go on. In the piece, he parses what civil disobedience is, what it is not, and reckons that if photo-ops don’t work, Brune, et.al. will have to make some big decisions soon in regard to further actions. While mentioning few concerns, he’s jazzed that Micheal Brune will ‘go toe to toe’ with the President.
As I began to consider writing a post calling this Vanity Action, I checked the front page of FDL and saw that Kevin Gosztola had put up a post about it. Hmmm. What to do? Could I be content with raising my objections there, thus taking the coward’s way out? Turns out I did raise some tepid objections, and was content to not do more, much to my shame, although waiting turned out well, since I now have more evidence to buttress my gripes, and I won’t even go into the corporate sponsorship of some of these participants’ groups. Nor will I point our how they fail to call out consumer consumption as far as I know, or which of them might advocate capitalist Green-Washing.. And as my social activist artist friend emailed me this week, ‘All we can do is go where conscience and logic takes us, or we are cowards and frauds’. (Freda kindly lets me use his art in my posts.) My conscience now asks me to publish this.
Two items brought further illumination. One was Amy Goodman’s interview with Brune, Kennedy and Hannah as she covered the event (video and rush transcript are here; my bolds throughout). A few key statements:
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: I think President Obama is going to kill the pipeline.
INTERVIEWER: Why do you say that?
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: Because I think it’s the right thing to do, and I think he knows that. And I think he—you know, I think he has a strong moral core, and I think John Kerry does, too. And I think, ultimately, he would not do something that is—that is this catastrophic and irresponsible and reckless.
MICHAEL BRUNE: I have not—I have not talked with him (Obama) since the—since his inauguration address, but we are talking to White House officials. And the clear message we want to deliver is that the president has an enormous amount of executive authority, and we want his ambition to match the scale of this challenge. I agree with what Bobby Kennedy said yesterday, that we believe that the president has a solid moral core, we believe that he is committed sincerely to fighting climate change. And in that context, you can’t build a pipeline from the tar sands. You shouldn’t drill for oil in the Arctic. You should not build liquefied natural gas export terminals that will make fracking happen everywhere across the country with even more intensity. So the challenge right now is to show the president that we’ve got his back. Every time he stands up to big polluters, we will mobilize to defend his strong policies. And at the same time, we’ll push the president to go as far as he needs to go.
Ahhhh, soooo. This drivel (and I mean ‘drivel’ in the nicest possible way) must be why these folks held a protest banner with Obomba’s logo on it. #Forward on climate change indeed.
When Amy interviewed Daryl Hannah separately, she at least injected some reality:
DARYL HANNAH: Well, unfortunately, this lethal beast doesn’t seem to go away. And also, the southern leg of the Keystone pipeline is already being put in the ground as we speak. So, as I’d like to believe what Robert Kennedy Jr. said and what Michael Brune said about the president’s intentions to not pass the rest of the Keystone XL pipeline, but unfortunately, I don’t know that his actions will match his words in terms of the Keystone pipeline, because so far he’s fast-tracked the southern leg. And the Keystone pipeline, if it is approved, is basically a conduit to the expansion of the tar sands projects up in Canada, which are incredibly destructive to our life support systems.
Then I read Michael Donnelly’s (another crank) piece at Counterpunch: ‘Tweeting as the World Burns’. Suffice it to say that I don’t agree with some of what he wrote, but some of it sure set off my bullshit meter again, and some…sent smoke comin’ out of my eyes and ears, starting with some of the tweets from the heroes of the story:
“Bucket list item checked off: share a paddy wagon with Julian Bond. This is a broad movement,” Bill McKibben tweeted after his misdemeanor arrest for protesting the Keystone Pipeline outside the White House, February 13, 2013
“It’s always good to get arrested with a Kennedy” posted Pete Nichols, who flew in from California for the rally. When informed about the Tar Sands-derived fuel in his and many of the other protesters’ mode of transportation, he frivolously responded, “I actually teleported. New Waterkeeper project. ssshhhh…btw…..tar sand oil makes terrible jet fuel and even worse martinis.”
I’d seen a few others that irked me earlier; even one that said one or two of the original 50 escaped arrest.
Donnelly’s anger had been fueled earlier that day:
In one of those Cosmic moments, an article about the effort to desegregate the Arkansas Capitol’s cafeteria in 1964 appeared the same day as the invite-only Designer Protest.
He compared what happened to those engaged in civil disobedience during those civil rights days to this, which may not be entirely fair, but I do know what he means.
“Comparing what those Civil Rights Movement activists endured with the 1.5 hour Vanity Protest and catch-and-release arrests held at the White House is akin to equating the Battle of Antietam with the Battle for Granada…yet, that is exactly what the organizers are doing all over social media. They were simply charged with failure to disperse and obey lawful orders and released on $100 bond each. (And don’t even get this Irishman started on the pejorative “paddy wagon” line. “Tweets from the Birmingham Paddy Wagon, anyone?”)”
Yup, cranky as all giddy-up, and at least understandable from where I sit. You can go through their tweets at this page. When I wanted art for this piece, I searched pages of Creative Commons photos on flickr. Nothin’. And there’d been a freaking warning under the event report that said all the photos had been copyrighted, but you could ask for permission to use them. Meh. Is that what democratic movements should do? I’d found a silhouette of a question mark to use instead, but when I went to grab an url to show you the photo of the banner, it turned out that Rainforest Action Network had loaded a few onto flickr. Good on them.
Meanwhile, the everyday people may already be on their way to DeeCee, or organizing other actions, and I salute them, and will be with them in spirit. So will many Occupiers, as you can see here, and read about the week of protests that Flowers and Zeese report here. The Green Party meet-up in DC is here. As luck would have it, though, the President will be golfing in Florida for the weekend. And…so it goes…
Feel free to give your opinions; I understand that it can be uncomfortable to hear our ‘heroes’ challenged as having clay feet, or for being entirely too self-congratulatory. As is the case with Michael Donnelly, I’m great with celebrities joining in protests, but not like this.
* Cheri Foytlin, who attended is the civil disobedience real deal, and hasn’t always been able to come up with bail money after her arrests without help from supporters.




254 Comments

The same Kennedy taking on one of Big Oil’s top lawyers (before global warming was renamed climate change).
That was great; I’d never seen that Short character. ‘Men don’t really like musicals’, lol. Hard to take yer eyes off that cigarette ash, wasn’t it?
And…is there an opinion you’d like to share? (not that I didn’t love the clip)
You’re really getting in the way of my nice little illusions here :) or maybe I mean :(.
Recommended.
That group photo begs for some photoshop fun.
Mine is likely a heterodox opinion, marym in IL; but all I can do is call em as I sees em. OTOH, and I could STFU, of course. No one has the corner on the truth, but we should try for it when possible.
Agreed on the :( , by the way.
Please share what you’re imagining, homeroid. I sent an insert to our Christmas cards once that was Santa staring at all his reindeer, dead on the snow and still in their traces. The caption had already been photoshopped in:
‘Merry Christmas from the NRA’.
Thanks for letting your conscience be your guide, wendydavis, and calling these “fauxtestors.”
Here’s what actual civil disobedience on the part of celebrities looks like:
Mohammed Ali refusing to go to Viet Nam and risking five years in prison. Be sure to watch the whole thing, the end is the best part.
Joan Baez and her mother spending more than a month at the infamous Santa Rita Jail for blocking the entrance to the equally infamous Oakland Induction Center in 1967.
As opposed to catch-and-release and $100 fines, these are the sort of consequences that everyday people face when committing civil disobedience. Not exactly the stuff of Christmas card photos.
I meant to say “calling out” in that first sentence above.
So that’s where the elite meet to tweet!
Wendy,
I came to you. Not sure anyone else would understand. It is snowing in South Carolina and I can’t be the first to tell Scarecrow.
I’m sure he knows. It just hurts.
McKibben’s finances recently came under scrutiny at WattUpWithThat.com, here.
On the plus side, McKibben came out against fracking almost a year ago (possibly earlier). Yet, 350.org seems to have no site-wide-driven projects against fracking. (local groups against fracking have access to local.350.org).
‘You want me to go somewhere n fight, n you won’t even fight for me here at home.’ Touching and powerful, hfc. How young he is there. Thank you; i’ll watch Joan in a bit. David. Some harsh personal history, so full of grief in the end.
Love your ‘fauxtestors’. And yes, I was pinging images of so many of you actually engaging in civil disobedience, with all the risks involved and incurred. Long times in jail,often torment or torture, mammoth fines for repeat ‘offenses’, no money, my stars. I’d give a list, but I know I’d leave out good folks who did brave things that sometimes went well…and sometimes very wrong.
Thank you, Miz Firecracker. Sobering.
From the Financial Post: Terence Corcoran: The price of Keystone may be a carbon tax
This article says similar sentiments have been expressed in Nature and Washington Post.
I suppose the most cynical interpretation is that McKibben and 350.org losing on Keystone will be used to distract conservatives from a carbon tax, McKibben knows this, but his Rockefeller and Shell oil funders pay him to put on a good show. Meanwhile, a highly regressive carbon tax will be sold as saving the world (though it’s not designed to do that, of course; expect none of those extra ‘green dollars’ to go towards zero carbon fusion energy).
metamars still forsees a carbon tax, that will do nothing worth noting on a global scale, due to large global CO2 increases being driven by China and the 3rd world.
See my diary Newsday: “Exxon backs Obama plan to impose climate change fees”
It seems to me, at least, that you’ve nailed it, UCT1.
I believe I do, PeasantParty. While I can only make guesses about our afterlives, maybe he’s beyond worldly cares and is singin’ out with the stars; Southern Dragon as well. Right now Arcturus rises here over the high peaks just before sleep time, and has been soooo bright, and through some atmospheric trick…twinkles pink, yellow and blue very brazenly. Imagine them singin’ along in harmony.
That’s all I got, sweetie. Love to you for being one of the keepers of Scarecrow’s soul; I reckon he’d like that just fine.
I’d been thinking more of wayoutwest’s saying that the Sierra Club has strong financial links to Chesapeake Energy (fracking co.), metamars. I guess we’ll see about a carbon tax, but on the whole Green-washing and Green capitalism…don’t address the problems. It’s a fact that the Indigenous know only too well as they see whole swathes of forests that were traded, but then put into monoculture ‘green energy’ crops, with all the pesticides, soil erosion, tra la la…that come with it.
Thanks for the links and opinions. Oh, I will say that I went through the entire list of 2012 attendees at Davos, and the sole eco-group that had a rep there was…NRDC. Whassup with that, I wondered.
Great job of dispelling some of the illusions about our Eco Warriors, Wendy. I am a little peeved that someone used the catch and release activism line, I had planned to use it.
It seems that Obama is four for four in being absent from the White House when 350.org comes to call, I wonder if that is just a considence?
I have 3 points of rebuttal to this:
1) Front line activists from the Tar Sands blockade took part in this too. Members of Blockadia from Texas were there. So was one of my dearest friends allies from her days at Occupy Boston. The media just focuses on the celebs.
2) I will take the help of ANYONE in this fight. Celebrity arrests get our protests out to a whole new audience — the Entertainment Tonight set. Good!
3) It’s just SMART TACTICS. Announce a major day of action, then engage your target in nonviolent civil disobedience days before they’re expecting it. Well done!
Here’s a picture of Jerry Hightower, a guy whose family vineyard was destroyed by the Keystone XL construction in Texas, one of the normal people arrested at this action.
I actually looked at his schedule on a couple sites, and he may have been there on Wed., but certainly won’t be tomorrow. Dunno for sure; some sites claimed that the SOTU was on the 13, so… ;D
It’s the crap factor I mind, *and* all the *Obomba’s got a strong moral core’ doo-dah. Will any of them be there tomorrow? Sure hope so; it might make me a little less cynical about this one.
I read the list of participants and their bios, Kit, and I totally respect that you hold an opposite opinion. And as to your #2, my take is that the celebrity stuff just allows many more everyday Americans to say, ‘Well, la de da’, adding more fuel to the impression that Elites can afford to care, while they leave huge carbon footprints themselves.
In the end, optics are huge in any societal movement, and this one is just made for photo ops.
Thanks for bringing Hightower’s picture and story as well as sticking up for your take. That’s a good thing always.
President Obama certainly does not have a solid moral core in this and many other areas. The time to protest with a a message that Obama would lose votes was before the election, not now. This could have been stopped cold by the Secretary of State or President long before this. See Environment – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/08/environment-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
After some searching I found that Obama was in NC in the morning and didn’t return until after the arrests in the afternoon, very convenient.
I doubt any of the notables will honor the Blockaders , that were at the demo, by returning the favor and joining them in Texas where they may face bail as high as $60k and lawsuits in the millions.
Argh to the reminder that Obomba ‘gave up our sovereignty to BP’. Remember when some of us were skeptical about the big fund that would pay for everything, and were trashed for our doubt? Well, how’d that work out? EPA: the same thing, different day. And Yes: before the election was the time for leverage, and Bill et.al. wanted us to thank the man for delaying the decision…until after the election. Redford, too; so many others.
It’s hard not to think of all the folks who LOTE-voted who could have made an actual showing for third parties. Wouldda taken a leap of faith to look further into the future, but until more of us do, or there’s a non-violent ‘Emperor has no clothes’ revolution, it will get worse and worse for us, for the planet, and for our ‘enemies’ around the globe. Oops, forgot the everyday people in nations whose lives our Empire degrades as well.
Er…sorry…I meant: have a good Saturday, goNPA. ;o)
Good on yer googlin’, wayoutwest. Mine tanked that one, lol.
It would be nice if they’ve made some kind of financial help plan for the others, though, even if they don’t show up in Texas. I remember being so bummed that we couldn’t afford to give Cheri Foytlin anything to get her out of jail after one of her brave actions. :(
A hundred dollars was cheap; wonder if that was pre-arranged as well? I do remember Stein and Honkala being double-cuffed to chairs for hours at the debates at Hofstra, and were treated abominably. Not celeb enough, I reckon.
Kit, I think you are missing the underlining issues that Wendy is trying to illuminate. The small group of brave people involved in the blockade will take support from anywhere since they are being ignored by the national media. The presence of two of them at the demo on Wednesday was great but it doesn’t change the fact that that demo was of little use since the pipeline is already being built and the northern section is more than likely going to be approved.
The real issue is what use are our Eco-NGOs since most of them depend on funding from the very industries and powerful people who control our energy industry.
If there is going to be a battle over the Northern section of this pipeline it will be on the ground where it is being built and groups like 350.org seem to be drawing people away from that kind of resistance.
Part of the problem with these optics is that the Sierra Club, Darryl Hannah and any Kennedy are automatically written off by a lot of people as the standard liberal do-gooders they’re always hearing about. So they’re protesting something . . . so what? They’re just doing what we expect them to. And I am certainly not suggesting that they shouldn’t. But this is really preaching to the choir, especially when they put that stupid fucking Obomba logo on their banner. One glance at that and you’d be nuts to take it very seriously; how is it again that the President’s supporters are getting arrested again?
The Politico article in that link, from April 2012, says:
It will be interesting to see what it looks like when the Sierra Club is furious.
Well, you know, they failed to get on the “let’s get him re-elected and then hold his feet to the fire” bandwagon. Silly girls.
And I know that in my local zone of influence, (that is, my home,) a hundred dollar fine for my protesting would pretty much mean that one or both of us would have to do without lunch for a month. And the cats would be stuck eating dry kibble.
But your fine wouldn’t be $100; it would be more. Or you’d spend a weekend or more in jail and lose your job, or at the very least a day or two of pay. And the zipties would be tighter.
I’m just curious how many of the celebrities and Sierra Club corp officers are still in jail? Prolly zero
Seems to me they’re the very definition of limousine liberal
So very well thought out, wayoutwest. I only wish my reply had been as clear and specific. Thank you.
BTW, the Sierra Club has always managed to put their Shadiest Activities behind them. When the MTBE crisis was going on here in California, they supported MTBE! And of course, now they say they never did. But as a small time protester who spend two consecutive days on hold trying to tell their top San Francisco lawyers that MTBE was damaging to the environment, I know better.
All these big orgs have someone at the top paying them. We might get this or that small advantage, but we learn a lot of false “truths” all along the way. There are a lot of very false memes coming at us, all the time. Somehow while people discuss, organize and protest fracking, for example, they also are learning to dismiss Biomass efforts. And every single bad example of Biomass recovery is put out there, while the good efforts, such as those activities that activist and educator David Blum has been supporting for over 20 years, are hidden.
McKibben is one of those willing to tell us all that fracking is bad, yet somehow another factoid or two gets slipped in. Bio mass is bad too – look, this group over here burned up some trees. But he wants all of us on a very short leash. Like many sophisticated Big City “environmentalists,” I can just see him sipping his Chardonnay and telling me how awful the dairy farms that are all around me are bad, because, you know, cows and methane. But never mind the trees burnt up every week of the year to provide the habitat for the vineyards that allow him his Chardonnay! (And nothing can utilize a vineyard – birds avoid them, the skinks, skunks, rabbits, deer, cougar, coyote, possums re decimated due to habitat loss.)
Great clip!
Yah, Wendy. I heard about the arrests from the local Sierra Club VP and I’m still shaking my head. My official response: WTF?
If I’d had the time, I would have checked the comments under some of the entries under the site’s ‘You Made the News‘ post to see what impressions/considerations might have been noted. But yes, I agree with you that they are often ignored by now, which I guess was part of my point. And not only that, many of the organizations will hop back into the veal pen of capitalist market-based solutions.
What kind of ties was wow saying Sierra Club has to Chesapeake?
Eggzactly. Kinda reminds me of gentrification, in a way. Ordinary folks stick their necks out (like those who have been protesting tar sands for months now, with and without fanfare) and drum up the support, then the elites swoop in and do their photobombs. I am not suggesting that some of these people haven’t also been in the trenches; of course, they have. But what we’re seeing really undermines that, IMHO.
National fracking summit in Dallas March 2-3, then rally in Austin March 4 for our legislators. See stopthefrackattack.org.
I forgot to say how funny your ‘It will be interesting to see what it looks like when the Sierra Club is furious’ quip; brilliant.
@ UCT1: can’t say how many times I’ve repeated ‘Where the elite meet to tweet’ as I’ve been jamming around doing home chores, lol! Thank you both.
Thank you, comrade, for being one of those inconvenient women. I could tell until this post was written, it was gonna irritate you like the princess and the pea. :)
I confess I had to google MTBE, elisemattu. New additive and danger to me.
As far as biomass: I’m going to have to stick a pin in that one, because there may be seriously sustainable boimasses (algae, kelp, others?) and wrong ones, as in rain forests being chopped down to massively plant X, Y, or Z monocultures. Dunno enough about it to be more than a bit skeptical, even if cannabis happens to be one in the future. But at least it has many other uses, so that’s a good thing.
Zero as far as I could tell from the tweeties. They were very proud of themselves, though, john in Sacramento. Were someone still inside, all hell would’ve broken loose, come to think of it. Prolly would have meant that someone (police?) didn’t adhere to the deal.
Just that they get a lot of their funding from the corporation.
And yes, WTF?
OT If the 50 states were redrawn and had equal population
Link
I would live in Mendocino
Well, wendydavis, it is annoying when the so-called leaders tag along after the ground troops have done the heavy lifting. It was ever thus. But I say, if they’s got the balls, and they wants to play, s’fine with me. Even if they are (OMG) ‘elite’. I may not be as advanced and/or liberal as you guys are, but seems we take allies where we find them. If.worst case scenario, they end up running the show, whose fault is that?
OK, so they may not be taking as big hits as, say, Tarheel Dem and bgrothus, but why would we tell them they aren’t good enough to espouse ‘our’ cause? Seems counter-productive to me, and more than a tad territorial. YMMV (obviously does).
I have been scorned from causes I truly believed in (eg, “It’s a (fill in the blank) thing, you wouldn’t understand.”) Not, IMHO, the way to winn friends or influence people. Let ‘em get cuffed and token-ticketed — how can this hurt?
WRT “ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: I think President Obama is going to kill the pipeline.” Now that totally looks harmful to me, we gotta get out and refute it. Not b/c RFKjr is an elite, but because he is *wrong* and lulling into false sense of security = drawing our teeth. But, in my worst tinfoil hat moment, if they are co-opting RFKjr for this message, then they are friggin’ worried and we need to press further b/c we are close.
I’ve been mulling your comment over, hfc, and you’re very correct in your comparison. I’ll need to take it another step further:
While the eco-movement is funded in any way by corporate capitalists, it will remain essentially partly an Empty Suit as unions have become (and really the ones still captured by Big Labor: Trumka, et.al.)
Until these organizations are willing to see that all the major issues confronting the 99% are directly related: racism, neo-feudalism, inverted totalitarianism (as per Sheldon Wolin), the raping of the planet by GMO producers, extractive industry, big money politics, failures to regulate, and la la la…none of the solutions will be forthcoming. And that’s a heavy ask for so many of these folks: to condemn the very system that allows them to function, no matter how feebly.
As you say, it’s where it gets personal that the truly dedicated people shine. Even especially when they’re looking out empathetically for their friends and neighbors. Again, uniting in love, respect and caring (the great consciousness awakening) is all that can save us and the planet. Globally, of course. And we may be the last nation to wake the fuck up.
Quite interested in your comments. Thank you for posting them.
Great Post Wendy and this the only person that made sense to me.
DARYL HANNAH
The rest shills for sure until SC cuts the ties to industry and takes pay cuts they are the problem.
Totally hearing you. And wanted to add, it could be that Robert F Kennedy Jr is simply being diplomatic. (?)
I am sure he is smart enough to understand who Obama is, and how he will probably sell us out on the Pipeline matter. But sometimes things need to be expressed in more acceptable manner. Lawdy knows I have spent my life grousing, whining and shouting at protests, and those efforts combined with a 25 cent piece will get you 2 dimes and a nickel. (Of course, that’s tangible change, isn’t it?)
The purity obsession that informs this post has neutered the Left for almost a half of a century.
Thanks for left-paging this post mods. No matter anyone’s position, it seems to be an important discussion to be having.
LOL, comrade firecracker; out here we might say ‘a burr under my saddle blanket’. Yes, it was gnawing at me, egalitarian that I’ve become. Local politicos used to call me ‘a lightning rod’, an ‘idealogue’, as if those were bad things. Their largest insult was when the local D party asked me to run for a state seat (House, Senate, don’t remember). Put that in the ‘thanks, but no thanks’ category. ‘I full intend to stay on the outside throwing rocks (feet to da fire, yes?)
This is old news GW, between ’07 and ’10 they recieved $25 million from natgas interests to fund their Beyond Coal campaign.
I’m not saying they are evil just that they, like much of Big Enviro, are compromised because they decided years ago to work with industry to maintain and expand their funding.
I would be living in Shiprock. I like that. Before the area south of Mesa Verde was inundated with coal smoke, one could see the Shiprock on the Navajo Reservation from atop the mesa.
Have you been to Mesa Verde and Canyon de Chelly? I’m thinking of visiting in the fall.
All kidding aside (srsly), I am very interested to see what the Sierra Club does next. They’ve drawn a line in the sand and for that, I give them props. The obvious next move, were Obama to “fall on his sword,” would be more protests, but more importantly, some sort of recognition that the two-party system is failing not just the citizens, but the entire planet.
I respect your opinion, hotflash, but disagree for the reasons I’ve mentioned. But you remind me that the Idle No More don’t take donations from the same folks who are killing them and the land they live on…and with. Speaking of which, I love that the women who are at the core of the movement take seriously their jobs as Keepers of the Land and Borders of Turtle Island. It never occurred to me to count the 50 to see how many women were included. ;o)
Hope all is well with you up in Canuckistan. Thanks so much for weighing in.
Added: I hate being told that I don’t ‘get it’, too. Always seems like code to me. ;D
I do remember that she stood with a landowner in Oklahoma, iirc, and helped her defend her land from the pipeline bulldozers. ;D
I’m not taking your meaning, oldgold. Could you expand on your comment so I might understand?
Never mind; I think I just twigged to your meaning. This is more ‘anti-purity’ to me.
Mesa Verde is about seven miles west of us as the eagle flies. Yes, we’ve been to Canyon de Chelley. In fact, Mr. wd was on the board of Trees for Mother Earth that planted fruit trees at the bottom of the canyon to try to symbolically replace the peach orchards that Kit Carson and friends burned down. The demoralization of the Navajo was complete after that, and…the rest is history.
Yes, I’d like your email. I’ve got my eyes peeled for the quick snag.
I had no idea you were so close and so intimately involved. Am not surprised to hear it though!
well, quick on this end anyway. i’ve got it now. thanks. good for you having a soak.
Deleting it now, and have a good sleep, good dreams, dear. ;o)
thanks, and you as well.
Dunno, hfc. Given that they and Bill McKibben have recognized climate change and its human causes have reached either emergency levels, or tipping points from which some believe there is no return…how did they only now ramp up their involvement and *not see* that both parties are corporately owned…and focus their thinking on how and why that is?
Baffling, and another case of self-kettling duopoly capture, imo.
You saw the Overton window move a bit on this issue. It is now “cool” to get arrested. Now….that’s double-edged. The folks who follow in their steps might not get the VIP treatment. There was this same discussion about the arrest of Cornell West during the protest of Citizens United on the steps of the Supreme Court. And again with the arrest of Jill Stein at the Tar Sands construction site.
Using “VIPs” only makes sense if you co-opt them instead of they co-opting you. Occupy Wall Street used a lot of “VIPs” well during the two months of the encampment. The same goes for “VIPs” willing to engage in civil disobedience, regardless of how it’s orchestrated.
So the questions of effectiveness become:
“Did the arrests on Wednesday increase the turnout on Sunday?”
“Did the arrests on Wednesday cause the MSM to cover the turnout on Sunday?”
“Will the VIPs show up on Sunday to be arrested again, with the risk that they will be treated like Naomi Wolf was relative to Occupy Wall Street?”
“Will the VIPs be able to use FOIA to obtain their arrest records and other surveillance of what is a pretty mainstream movement?”
And that depends on the broader strategy around the Tar Sands protests. If the strategy is framed in terms of autonomous actors, how that unfolds will be unpredictable and will depend very much on the small groups and individuals who show up on Sunday. If the strategy is framed in terms of conventional organizational action, the focus will be on involving more people.
When it gets serious is when someone whose treatment would be a major embarrassment to the US decides to chain themselves to the heavy equipment in Texas and Oklahoma.
The struggle right now on this issue is to reach the tipping point for MSM favorable coverage, given the very active effort to suppress news about the movement not to mention the protests themselves. The harder struggle is reaching the tipping point where the decision is settled against the pipeline in perpetuity.
As I understand the relationship of well-funded organizations to movemental politics, it goes something like this. Corporate capitalism is not monolithic in its interests. There are some corporate types who for corporate or personal reasons want to make sure that the environment is preserved and the Tar Sands Pipeline never built; we environmental organizations will take money from them in order to try to educate and mobilize people on this issue. Because we environmental organizations are stuck doing mobilization the old fashioned way through our newspapers, magazines, web sites, local affiliates, and the MSM, it costs a bunch of money to do this marketing.
It’s the old 1960s-1970s organizational theory of how to do things through non-profits that has gotten well-coopted by notions like professional management and social entrepreneurship. So now they finally notice their current ineffectiveness compared to the 1970s and are floundering as to how to move forward using the membership and financial resources available.
Now is a moment in which a coalition can happen as long as all sides know that the only thing they agree on is stopping the Tar Sands Pipeline. All other issues in coalition interaction get bracketed. No deep philosophical discussions about principles or deep ecology or…just get it stopped. This is the point at which I agree with Kit O’Connell.
You make some good observations TD especially about the big Enviro NGOs being ineffective. This catch and release activism is of little value especially when directed at an empty White House. I believe the decisions are not actually made in that empty house but only parroted to the public from there.
The real question is how much resistance to the construction of the pipeline will happen where the pipeline is being built and will the Big NGOs will join that resistence. So far their support has been weak.
Many good points, including your conclusion
From my perspective, it’s not that the pipeline is really “game over”, and so it’s a matter of particularly bad timing to throw a monkeywrench into what may be the largest environmental demonstration in US history. Rather, it’s a matter of particularly bad timing to throw a monkeywrench into what may be the largest environmental demonstration in US history because there’s so little visible public-welfare motivated movement going on, of any sort.
There’s no large demonstrations going on about student debt, getting out of current “free trade” agreements, having a real, publicly funded health care system, halving the military, etc., etc.. There’s nothing like this – that I’m aware of. With the rot so systemic, this can’t be a good sign. (And it’s not like big demonstrations guarantee any real world changes – they don’t seem to have accomplished much in Greece, e.g.. However, in other countries, large scale demonstrations do indeed achieve their ends, as we saw in France. Also, in the case of Greece, would SYRIZA have managed to do as well, during it’s first election, without that large Greek demonstrations? I’ll guess not.)
Occupy Wall Street was exciting and hope-inspiring in good measure because it was so visible. The same with the big Wisconsin demonstrations.
I had a similar discussion with a rah rah union guy when the massive demonstrations in Wisconsin were happening. He wanted us to support the public unions in state after state, carte blanche. I argued that the public should not support the public unions, without some reciprocity, which is a human norm. From Solidarity With Wisconsin’s Union Workers:
…..
=============================
Hopefully, reform minded citizens learned something from the muting of Occupy, following the evictions. (I doubt it, frankly, but one can always hope for the best.) The evictions should have been anticipated, and since there was widespread recognition that the persistent public face of OWS was a good thing, there should have been some system created to allow Occupiers who couldn’t house themselves, locally, to board (for free) with sympathetic citizens who lived, nearby.
More generally, people should be thinking ahead, and thinking about what it takes to exert real political pressure. Even the large anti-Iraq war demonstrations were not sufficient to prevent the invasion during the reign of Bush II.
Pris for the win!
Okay. I just spent an hour and a half checking all the newspapers that the tarsandsaction folks listed as carrying the story. Most of them were Matthew Daley’s AP article, either the full or an abbreviated version.
Very few of the pieces had ANY comments at all; the only ones with significant numbers were:
Huffington Post: 158
Yahoo News: 1143
Canadian Globe and Mail: 150
The level of ignorance displayed was high. ;D My antennae may have been hyper-tuned to comments that supported my contention, but the ‘spoiled rich enviro hypocrites living large and having huge carbon footprints’ was common.
I don’t often go to HuffPo, but I was surprised at the many commenters who were pro-XL pipeline, taking the industry claims to heart: cheaper gas, loads of new jobs, safer than moving the oil by tanker/rail/etc.
I went looking for a piece I’d seen at Bloomberg, iirc, about Plan B if O/Kerry didn’t greenlight the project, but ran into this info from Steve Horn (didn’t read it here, though he may have published it here):
Because of a comment I’d read along the way, I went searching for this bill Boxer and Sanders introduced on Thursday, and the Brune and McKibben are supporting. Haven’t read it, dunno if I’ll be able to parse its meaning/efficacy, but failure is apparently assured.
Great screen name, dude. ;D
La de da, indeed. I went to a Sierra Club meeting in a very nice house in a very nice suburban Denver neighborhood once. Besides the chairman of the chapter, who was showing off his $50,000 hybrid(at least he put his money where his mouth was), I was the only one who didn’t drive to the meeting in a SUV.
When I pointed out the hypocrisy to the little group, they were aghast at the nerve and rudeness of the one working stiff in attendance, ie myself. They had to have room for groceries and kids and soccer balls, you see. I told them that my Saturn sedan was capable carrying the same while getting at least 35 miles per gallon. One lady told me that that was just “nonsense,” and that I just didn’t understand.
I told her I understood perfectly well that their social status symbols were more important to them than their professed cause. Oh, the horror! The social faux pas!
Your feelings about this photo op with an Obama banner are well justified, IMHO. Recc’d.
I wonder what these celebrity environmentalists will actually do when Obama approves the Keystone pipeline? Lay their bodies down in front of the back hoes alongside the likes of Kit O’Connell?
“That’ll be the day.”
–John Wayne
Wuh-oh; I can’t be holier-than-thou on SUVs cuz when my second knee crashed I had to sell my car and buy a used Jeep. It was all I could find that was high enough, and had a door that would (for cripessake) open wide enough to allow me to get into it. So…while I applaud your efficient car, I cannae make the same claim. Although: my car accumulates next to no miles on its odometer, and I reckon it’ll last till I’m dead, lol.
I keep forgetting to mention that labor is one of the groups that needs to be turned toward saving the planet. It’s not hard to imagine that any of these folks might turn off working people, but surely some knowledgeable people could try to schedule talks with local or national unions to point out how all of these issues are inter-connected, *and* show them why the magical, but faux, job numbers are just plain silly chimeras.
Googling found Trumka saying that Obomba should quit dithering and approve this leg, but said that there are diverse views among the different unions.
This interpretation of the Wed. event is hilarious; the author quotes Trumka, but then notes that only 48 were arrested yesterday, as opposed to the 1000 in 2011!
The piece says that the group chanted: “Hey, Obama, we don’t want no climate change drama.” LOL! Whazzat mean?
My guess is that they’ll be happy with some quid pro quo consisting of some portions/tweaks of the Boxer/Sanders bill.
What I want to see is who shows for the protest in DC this afternoon. I just went out to get today’s WaPo and it’s cold!
Paul Weiskel@PWeiskel08
9 buses from NYC, 7 Buses from Boston, 3 buses from Burlington… havent seen this big of a mobilization since the anti-war movement in ’03
PHOTO
Not too much hahppening yet on this livestream
I never watch MSNBC but somehow I ended up on Chris Hayes this morning talking about the shift in climate change and how Obomba made it the second domestic policy issue he mentioned in the SOTU (after the economy, another thing I imagine he doesn’t actually mean to do anything serious about). Hayes had McKibben on, who repeated his tweeting points about Julian Bond and suggested that today’s demonstration was going to be huge. I didn’t wait for the next segment in which Hayes was going to talk about the legislative game.
This is why I never watch MSNBC – there is this underlying acceptance that electoral politics is the only avenue for change. I stopped believing that several years ago and I just can’t listen to more than about 15 minutes of this before I tune out, or despair to the point where I want to jump off a tall building.
This is what drives my despair – the belief that, while tens or even hundreds of thousands of people might show up for a demonstration, the vast majority of them will be happy with some incremental change and it will further reinforce the notion that they’re holding Obomba’s feet to the fire.
The most hopeful thing I ever saw was 30,000 or so people marching to the Port of Oakland. But it turned out that most people were not in it to win it and failed to see the power in that kind of direct action. That wasn’t about sending a message to some elected officials; in my mind, it was about sending a message to the corporatocracy that we will put our bodies on the odious machine and shut it down. I think that’s the only thing that is really going to work for tarsands; everyone who’s converging on DC ought to instead be climbing a tree or chaining themselves to a piece of actual machinery.
OWS NY! Great photo, marym!
Shoot, I wish I knew how to embed a Livestream; I’d put it up.
It’ll be interesting, and I hope we’ll know how many, and who didn’t come, as well.
We had 43 degrees here yesterday, a nice break. But the great news is that we had almost a foot of snow last week, though I’m not sure how many inches of moisture were in it. That, following an entire year where we got 6 inches total. Place burned up, and I don’t mean figuratively.
Lucky for us all then that you’ve chosen a method that won’t work in your neighborhood. (Am I correct that you live out in the country with no tall buildings in sight?)
Who do you reckon that might be, and is embarrassment even a prod toward *not* approving the next leg of the pipeline?
Yes to *positive* MSM coverage; dunno that that’s what we’re seeing so far, though Daley’s coverage did include some of the warnings issued by Brune, et.al.
My bad. I was assuming it was Wendy writing that.
*she said, slithering away in embarrasment*
Obama and Biden would be good choices for chains – either to the equipment or in the dungeon.
No worries. I also live in a small town where there are few tall buildings.
My unicorn, “Sparkles”, is saying I must go on a hike right now if I am to keep my sanity.
Good ’nuff then. Somehow I thought you lived in Oakland.
I did until just recently. I am still close enough to be there in a couple hours.
Smart unicorn.
LOL!
‘Firecracker Carol! Able to Leap Off Tall Buildings from a Single MSNBC!
Nah; me ‘n miz firecracker is doppelgangerz. born at the same lab, separated at birth. ;D
I just checked the forecast in more detail, and the NW wind is projected to stay up all day, with temps in the low 30s and a 30% chance of snow showers. Of course the occupants of all those buses marym cites @ 79 have no choice but to be here and bear it.
Your thread is certainly where the action is this morning, wd. I’m a bit jealous: mine seems to have died, in spite of being front-paged for my first time. But then, asteroids are so yesterday!
Anyone know how to embed a livestream? I tried to find out, but failed. It’s started; speakers to begin soon.
This may be where we see Brune, McKibben, et.al. They must be in Lafayette Park? Chairs, platform, etc.
But now that I think about it, we had to bundle up for the protest against the Iraq invasion in ’03. It was pretty big, just the same.
The livestream’s jerky, but you do see lots of stocking hats. Brrr.
I thought the folks who knew the issues you addressed, and some of the history, really appreciated your post. I know nuffin’ ’bout it, so given that, it was 2L2R given how busy I was with this and home chores.
And…nice on the asteroid humor. Though one *could have been more today*, lol. Mr. wd’s boss was freaking about it. He couldn’t get her to see reason. ;D
Looks like the speaker’s area is fenced in. (grin)
Don’t know how to embed.
Here’s another stream
http://www.ustream.tv/OccupiedAir
So many signs with Obamalogo. What’s going to happen when he lets them down?
I love the way the ads at FDL are keyed to the topic being discussed. I think we will know we have made progress when the ads that come up during a tarsands oil discussion are for solar or wind power not about mineral rights investments.
Susie Cagle@susie_c
Jill Stein says she isn’t being allowed to speak at #forwardonclimate rally, tells me she’s considered too radical.
They will just soldier on… ;D Say ‘Romney wouldda been much worse’.
I tried that stream’s embed code on a post; it didn’t work. But thank you, marym.
A Ponca woman from OK was asked, “Are you with Idle No More?”
“Aren’t we all?” she answered.
Susie Cagle’s a permanent reporter for OWS. Bummer, bummer, they won’t allow Stein to speak. Bad Form.
All those people bundled up while Dear Leader is playing golf in West Palm Beach today. Per this article on the environmental impact of golf, a 2008 poll showed that 41 percent of golfers do not believe in climate change.
Amen to that, wayoutwest. I have those blue eyes blinking and Christian Singles right now. Invest in yada, yada, mineral futures earlier.
Per Susie Cagle on twitter: “I don’t have any reason to believe the pipeline won’t go through.” – Van Jones.
Ah, Van, how’s that Dream Rebuilding going for you?
I can’t get marym’s first livestream to work, but the one she gives @99 is OK, if it’s not a wide view. I see there are some of our people, wd, the Native Americans.
I’m going to head down there in a few minutes, so I’ll be internet-less. Talk to you later one way or another.
Libor Von Schönau@LiborVonSchonau
My current count is 12K people+more arriving #ForwardOnClimate “Don’t Poison My Land” #NoKXL #F17 #OccupySandy pic.twitter.com/T9x9xMo4
OccupyMemphis@OccupyMemphis
Lots of people, #energy at #ForwardonClimate rally #NoKXL #NoFracking pic.twitter.com/EHBDTebr
Enjoy, ER Beall, but don’t let em make ya wear an Obomba pin!!!!
Here is a photo of Joan Baez getting arrested at the Oakland Induction Center in 1967, and another of protestors clashing with police. Strangely, none of them seem to have LBJ logos or memorabilia. I guess there were fewer Kinkos back then.
#FORWARD OUT OF VIET NAM. Catchy, huh?
[wd, can you please delete that previous duplicate comment since I hit send before I put the links in?]
Sierra Club media rep Chin said, ‘We’re here to support the President in going forward on climate change, and if he doesn’t (video failed)’.
Bummer; those missing words would have been interesting.
Oh, bugger, hfc. I’d forgotten to go back to watch your Oakland induction center video.
Wot? No LBJ logos? No: ‘Hey, hey, whaddya say; We gotcher back…LBJ!’
I saw that, too. The other link re Baez wasn’t a video, just an article.
And in your Oakland draft protests one, there was Todd Gitlin again, not to mention brutal Oakland thug cops.
The OA Livestream’s off as often as it’s on.
Live on c-span.org
http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/
British Columbia First Nations Chief Jackie Thomas now speaking.
Looks from the schedule like this is on c-span tv too?
Ah, C-Span’s livestreaming it; I reckon it won’t hang as often.
Susie Cagle@susie_c
I can’t rly figure out if this is protesting Obama or pleading with him. Will interview some folks after rally speeches. #forwardonclimate
Sheldon Whitehouse turning this into an Obama rally. We’ll tell future generations “Yes we did.” But he didn’t say stop the pipeline, in the part I heard.
Sucks.
It’s an Obomba rally; they’re chanting:
YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN! Jackie Thomas included, saying she knows that the US electing a black man means…help’s on the way.
It looks to me like they want to embarrass him into it by acting like they’re assuming he’ll do the right thing.
Does, indeed. Almost makes ya feel a li’l bit cynical. How was your Unicorn ride? (hike)
At least Van Johnson will speak; mustta gotten Jill Stein’s spot.
Beautiful. Clear and breezy, about 60 degrees. Both the hike and the creek were beautiful. I sat and did some hand exercises, picked up cigarette butts and feel very satisfied and a bit tired.
The leadership or whatever they’re called of this rally must pretty well know by now that he’s not going to do what they want. I wonder what it will take for the all people who showed up in the cold, and other Dem and Obama believers, to realize what’s happening.
Crystal Lameman of the Beaver Lake Cree Nation is speaking clear and true.
“The hostages they are taking in this game of environmental roulette.”
Pardon my challenged memory, gw, but I’ve forgotten where you live. Sometimes I forget where I live, thus I never go far from home. ;~)
Mr. wd goes running on Sunday mornin’s, and stops at a bench on the Mancos River to pray for it.
Wish I had any faith in the hope that he *can* be embarrassed into rejecting the pipeline.
It’s an entertainment extravaganza; tv child stars and all. Never imagined this, but it should help moot arrests. Wonder what the Occupiers are thinking?
Great First American women speakers, whoosh.
Elder from OKlahoma: “Today is the beginning of the change.”
Austin, TX
You have legitimate reasons for owning a large vehicle, Wendy. I don’t begrudge farmers for driving big-assed pickup trucks, either. They NEED them.
The people to whom I was referring didn’t. You don’t need an SUV or a 4 door pickup to get the groceries or the kids in a metro area. Period.
How pleasant that we now have helicopters overhead.
Michael Brune, Exec Director of Sierra Club, talking about our climate disasters and the successes in shutting down coal plants.
“The fossil fuel barons…..are losing their grip on (?our nation’s) psyche”.
He’s talking about how much solar and wind power are increasing.
“The spell has been broken.”
Asking Obama, “What will you do?” When the tap water is set on fire from fracking.
“Take out that pen and write ‘I reject the XL Keystone pipeline’.”
March starting to the White House.
Shoot, even Mr. wd remembered. Of course:your great Occupy Austin posts.
Thank you, gw, and marym for bringing a few comments and speakers.
At least Brune asked Obomba to get out his pen and reject the pipeline.
Comments now on CSPAN. They’re having people call in: one line for Democrats, one for Republicans, one for independents. I guess they feel they need to keep them separated for fear violence might break out.
No, I understand, Barbarian. I just wanted to set the record straight on my own car.
And yes: they are modern day ponies, and too often status symbols, not transportation. And almost everyone wants to drive their own, not share rides, etc., so the streets and highways are clogged with boxes on wheels rushing to the next mall to see what’s for sale, even if they can’t afford to purchase things. One day that will stop, thank goodness.
And of course there are empty malls over the nation now, and empty big box stores. Hard to do do much with them, though: they were built as throw-aways, even in the towns around here. Ish.
Phone wars? That was a joke, yes? ;D
Once again, I was caught without my snark tag.
I suppose they were trying to be fair and balanced, but all the calls, including the Republicans were happy about the rally and wanted a clean earth. That was maybe the first 7 or 8 calls before I turned off C-Span.
I just marked that as a test of how serious these VIPs might be. When it is definitely not kabuki. I have no idea who, if anyone, will step up to the plate.
Checked out the UStream. The head count seems to be around 45,000. This is not an amateur production. The stage, the banners, the printed signs, and so on. Not to mention the fact that it is definitely permitted. Frankly, 45,000 is pathethic for national organizations that have oodles of local chapters. And with OWS folks in most places bumping up the numbers.
The DC-based national non-profit environmental organizations have lost their connections to the grassroots it appears. I wonder if they have faced bureaucratic obstacles in getting the logistics in terror-obsessed DC done. The DC environment is not like the affluent 1960s, when transportation and lodging was comparatively cheaper and there were not so many security barriers and hassles. The cold weather might have reduced attendance of those within a couple hours drive but the number of buses reported coming in is lower than national demonstrations of decades ago. Did Sierra Club and 350.org think to organize buses or was it done ad hoc or through some other organization?
The other thing I noticed about it was the OFA-themed graphics and the “Forward Climate” theme. (Yes, I’ve been slow picking up on this event). Whether as a pressure tactic by Sierra Club and 350.org or a co-option tactic by the White House, this event has been branded “Obama”. Who exactly in Congress is this intended to impress?
Indigenous speakers raising energy with the crowd. And calling for support on the actual blockade in Texas and Oklahoma. Another hint of the possibility of coalition.
The next thing I’m looking for is any hint of persistent struggle against the Tar Sands Pipeline from Sierra Club and 350.org. Is this a one-shot or will they go further?
Missing piece is labor. Represents a split, no doubt.
Watching the march. Big question. Where are all the cops? They’ve been thick as hornets for every protest of the past two years. Are they that sure of the participants or is not an occasion for security theater?
Just joining the discussion. Do we have a link to LS?
Way jammed with home chores, but I do want to ask:
Who is the Super-duper X-Strength Important Guest that Rev Yearwood said is to come when they ‘return from the WH? Will they fly Obaomba back from his golf trip? Will it be Michael Moore?/s Will it be John Kerry?
Inquiring mindless…wanna know…
Bugger; I forgot: Could it be…Beyonce?
Livestream JNL_live (OWS perspective)
YourMediaTeam (OccupyCarlisle)
I’m back early because, believe it or not, I could not find the thing!
The literature I’d seen was no more specific that “the Mall,” so I took a bus down 7th St., NW, which bisects the part of the Mall between the Capitol and the Washington Monument, the part where protests usually happen, but when I got there (about 1:00) I looked in both directions and saw no clusters of people.
I guess the rally must be on the part between the Monument and the Lincoln Memorial, but the worst of it is that somewhere on the way down I lost my “SmarTrip” card, which carries fare value and also allows you to transfer free between buses in a single trip. I didn’t have enough cash on me to take a bunch of buses to explore further, and all I could do is come home.
Not a good day for me, but I hope everyone on the thread has been enjoying on live feed. (Where are they, by the way? The one I was watching earlier seems to have gone dead.)
Indigenous Environment Network has the drums.
45,000 is really pathetic, especially if that’s the count being given by the organizers (as opposed to police who usually lowball). And if that’s the “largest environmental rally” ever, that’s even more pathetic.
Speaking of police, this really is different from what we’ve seen in large protests that were organized by OWS or even other groups. Sounds like they were not expecting any civil disobedience . . .
Considering the politely pre-scheduled arrests Wednesday, and today’s Obama branding and lack of police presence, this was a really strange event. Not at all to disrespect the sincerity of most of the people who attended.
The Guardian is saying that the organizers are claiming 35,000; but what’s nine or ten thousand if it ain’t dollars?
It’s possible that the Mystery Super-Duper Guest was: tada!: Robert Redford. WTF? No Jane Fonda? No Beyonce?
Doesn’t it seem likely that as this was essentially an Obomba Plead-o-tainment Rally that he was given the heads-up earlier, and advised the police were asked to be way in the background?
From the FAQs at the Sierra Club’s Forward on Climate web page:
Meanwhile, The President was on the links in Florida:
350.org is advocating we ‘Idle No More’ after a closing round dance.
The Globe and Mail reckons it was a bust as far as crowd size (why are only the Canadian and British papers reporting anything yet?).
But Van Jones was clear and loud with:
“Mr. President, if you don’t act now, all the good you have done will be wiped out,” Anthony (Van) Jones, the American environmental advocate and civil-rights activist, told the crowd.
Great find, hfc. Michael Connelly had tried to distinguish between ‘civil disobedience’ and…not…for this get-together. Sorry, it wasn’t really a protest; more of a ‘Guidance’.
Guess the suspension (as per Connelly) really was for one day, and Wednesday was it.
I gather that the event I somehow missed (see @ 143) was less than stupendous, and I presume you are being ironic in appealing to the somewhat problematic Van Jones.
BTW, my asteroid discussion has come alive again.
I swore I’d answered you at #143. I’d even found the exact location of the even (NE corner of the Mall near the WA monument, iirc. Loading comments today has taken forever, and I just walk away sometimes, come back to redirect pages.
Yeah, I’m pretty much not a Van Jones fan; I wrote this not long after his book salon here, which…made some folks pretty irate. I’d only read the thread later, but…in any event…
Yes, it looks as though folks are commenting more; I’m glad…you’re glad.
More tweets from my OO comrade, writer/illustrator Susie Cagle:
Nice photo of the march
LOL!
No sir, this is Hollywood! It will be interesting to see which media sent reporters to cover it, and if it makes the 10:00 news. So far, not much is in the cache beyond the Canadian papers and HuffPo, Bloomberg and Yahoo just posted.
And yes on labor, as I’d mentioned to the Barbarian upthread. Remember when some of the union locals came to Zuccotti Park? It was almost like the farmers in northern Egypt coming to Tahrir Square…but the encampment must have been destroyed soon afterward, though I’m guessing on the timing.
Susie rocks, no doubt about it. I’d have to quibble a bit, though: they weren’t angry, they don’t think he sucks…the ‘He can’t do anything unless we push him’ is so wrong, as is ‘We have your back, Mister President!’
He’s supposed to have the people’s backs. Heh, ‘We’ll Occupy’ is on my realplayer now. One of the women who spoke had her voice when she said, “Help US! This isn’t what American is about!”
Oh, and EF Beall, you can watch the whole show at 350.org.
IMO, the things most terrifying. Unity of OWS, the homeless, and the unions. Either the homeless or heavy union support, and the eviction came shortly thereafter. Other places lasted a little longer but they too eventually were evicted through hook, crook, or special legislation (SC and TN).
There really isn’t much MSM coverage at all. Wonder if the “lawless” and “historic” protests by McKibben et al on Wednesday pre-empted further interest in today’s polite activities? If you google “Sierra Club” and filter by the last 24 hours, you get mostly articles repeating those civil disobedience talking points.
I can see Susie rolling her eyes pretty hard at all this.
The President responds. (I know it’s not the current president. But close enough.)
When were the Shut Down the Ports actions in Oakland and Longview in relationship to the big crackdown wave? Sure wish I had a memory… ;D
(Mr. wd turned on NBC teevee news; no lede to the event.)
thanks for this post, wendy. your coverage of the “obama climate change pep rally” has the most info i could find during search this afternoon. i did find “livestream” loop @ 350.org. i was puzzled about the “lack of security” — not a single uniform to be seen nor any media people or their vehicles.
i guess the new trick is: ” first they fight you, then they ignore you, then you go away.” not with a bang, but a whimper.
On troubles with comments, tell me about it: I’m presently juggling them with writing a new post and trying to eat supper.
Just glancing at your Van Jones post, it does look like you stirred up a bit of a hornet’s nest. As for me, I’ve generally seen him as making people waste their energy.
BTW, you’ll be glad to hear that Ohio Barbarian and I have reached a truce, at least on the asteroid-dinosaur issue.
Wot? She got somethin’ against child stars from the teevee bein’ rolled out for Obomba??? Fenced-in speakers??
Holy smoke, so glad you brought that video; fond memory, eh? Wonder if any press were on the course with the current President, and if so…what they asked him. Or would they just have wanted to get some pithy quotes from Tiger?
Might take some to figure out if the Elite event did neutralize cover of today’s supplication. Mr. wd said ABC news just spent thirty seconds on it. By the time he turned it up…it was over.
Oh.my.god. Can we frame that one, karenjj2? Rolling on the floor (at least metaphorically).
Yup, permit the pep rally, swear ‘no civil disobedience’, use the Prez’s logos (stylized, of course, with a hurricane) and Bob’s Yer Uncle: no police needed. (Of course they were somewhere, just in case….)
Thanks for your great contribution.
If it’s Hollywood, they got gypped. There are local organizations around here that can set up a classier stage that that setup. (How far away from the capitol was it btw to make 45,000 fill the view of the Washington Monument?
I’m glad they did it. I’m glad that the Indigenous Environmental Network led the march (wish it’d been US #idlenomore). I’m glad that lots of Occupy types padded out the size of the crowd. But it was a flat as a couple of the ANSWER rallies during the Bush years. (Unless you were there; folks on the livestreams were having a good time.)
My guess is that the Sierra Club and 350.org did not promote buses. Maybe they thought their folks would drive their SUVs or fly their private jets there. /s
Does anybody know how to do a huge permitted march anymore? It takes a tremendous amount of work.
And on another issue, CNN just ran a surprisingly good segment on DC’s R-word (maybe they’ll put it on their site but haven’t yet). They made the point I hadn’t seen yet that the team may move back on federal land, to open up new ways of pressuring them — which is how they were forced to integrate the team in the 1960s.
Or not expecting to cause any…
I’m sure larger logo images will be ordered to be printed.
Yes, juggling can be hard, but nah; making detente with the Barbarian isn’t a thrill for me, lol. We argue, too, then…agree. It’s all good./s
Yahoo – no notice
Al Jazeera English – nada
TPM – nada
dKos – McKibben plus one photo diary from DC. Photo diaries from Kalispell MT (couple dozen), Chicago (300 or so), Seattle (300 or so plus Mayor McGinn)
Not a cop in sight in any of the pix.
It reminded me of what Jon Stewart’s thingie was billed to be. But yes, the Ponca woman was sublime, and good on the Occupiers, but again: I wonder what they were making of it.
‘Hollywood’ wasn’t about the infrastructure, more about who was included, who excluded, the Ben Vereen slicky feel to the music and ‘give it up for’…no soul, no connection, really. Made for teevee, only teevee didn’t give a damn; they’re covering that paraympic guy who killed his wife, and the goddess knows what else.
Fail.
350.org did have a bus link, but I didn’t click in.
ROTFLMAO! Nice, nonquixote. And logo belt buckles.
Yahoo is using Reuters, but I’d forgotten how hard I’d laughed that they had a hedge-funder to speak to what a ‘bad investment’ it was.
“no soul, no connection, really. Made for teevee, only teevee didn’t give a damn; ”
yep, you’ve found the answer to my unrealized feeling of “something missing” (besides the cops); despite the sincere efforts of all the participants, the small portion i watched seemed pro-forma with a subtle recognition that no one is listening.
i think maybe we could have seen the end of going to DeeCee for action; and, hopefully, start taking on the corporate masters directly as successfully done with the shutdown of ports, pulling money from banks, and maybe just not buying chinese cr*p at walmart.
Thanks for this diary wendydavis,
I appreciate the perspectives and everyone’s participation in the discussion. A couple of us, meagerly self-funded are contacting every local group with education materials and urging them to ask questions and to speak up against the tyranny here.
In your diary, important observations like, where are the police, suggested here, don’t always immediately occur to me. Oh see, “we the people are getting our say, petitioning our government, all is well, they showed it on TeeVee.”
Meanwhile my state Assembly district Rep wants to arm individuals in my child’s school, force trans-vaginal ultrasounds on rape victims seeking abortions, charge new fees for processing FOIA requests and force people into training programs and double the job searches required to stay eligible for unemployment bennies and the local, “D’” can’t even get out a press release express a POV.
Get this one, the “R,” want nuclear re-classified as renewable energy to qualify for green energy grants to prolong power generation in 50 year old plants that the owners cannot afford to keep running and wish to shut down.
Very nice people I had joined with back during the Recall petition work, still cannot figure out why they are loosing ground to FitzALECwalkerstan crazy right legislation coming out fast and furious as they (local Democrats) are planning to finally discuss their 2013-14 agenda next month.
Wished them all the best at finding some political relevance someday, and that they could maybe first get their local leadership to come home from winter vacations in warmer climes.
Bitching on the Internet While the World Burns and Other People Actually Get Out Of the House, Or, You Can’t Possibly Mean Anything Well By Your Actions Since I Say So. Also, Irony Dies – AGAIN.
oh, wow, nonquixote! this is heartbreaking and dreadfully duplicated across the states. just leaves me speachless and only able to provide this
(((((nonquixote)))))
Thank you, we are kinda stoked about what we are doing at the moment. We are finding elected officials in very local government willing to consider resolutions opposing some of this garbage, and we found two local radio stations, who have noticed and commented on air.
Officials refusing to speak out against the draconian are being brought to the light with some, simple, “which side are you on,” type of questions that are easily understood.
It just isn’t happening through the local
DemocraticOFA controlled affiliates and we are talking about that also, to the disappointed among their members.Also discovering some diversionary channels as to how ALEC ideas are getting brought before our absolute dunce R legislator, who couldn’t find his way out of cardboard box if he had to. ALEC idea presented to a local business person, then to a city supervisor, to a county supervisor and then to the Assembly Rep.
Mod Note: no personal insults Canfield.
Mods: I, for one, have had enough of Canfield stalking people, especially wendydavis, and making comments that would get most people banned. It has been clear for a very long time that he has some sort of special privileges. I suppose you feel sorry for him; I know I do. But enough is enough.
Smooch!
Dear nonquixote; it’s hard to know how to respond to all you see, know, and have so influence to correct. The relative powerlessness you note, even to find kindred spirits with your former comrades…must physically ache. Those of us reading your words will ache with you, and as karenjj2 does, send you prayers and our best strength, love, and compassion.
It must be a bit like living in AZ or WI, and being of good conscience and principle, and seeing tyranny at a gallop. The rapid pace of it all is really astounding to me, as it seems to be to you. That cruelty is rampant and sociopathy is on the loose, as well.
Please contact me if there’s anything I can ever do for you, meager as my support might be in fact. There just has to be a point when more people wake up and push back against the dark forces, but waiting and doing what we’re able is really hard.
For me, looking at the night sky and imagining all that came before, and all that will come after us really does help my perspective some nights. Other than that, small kindnesses among those we care for…can help too.
All my best,
wd
> Canfield stalking people, especially wendydavis, and
> making comments that would get most people banned
Yes, can someone have a talk with the boy?
LOL; it is reminiscent of seventh grade, isn’t it? Thank you, and thank you, hotflashcarol, for your objections to this creepy form of communication.
As you said, cruelty is rampant and sociopathy is on the loose. My conscience would not allow me to let it go unchallenged.
What you and the few others are doing is really inspiring, nonqui. Sadly, the local dems sound like deadfall blocking the stream. I’m glad you are finding your way around them with what sounds like a very effective teaching strategy. Thank you for your efforts.
Wendy, thank you, too. You are a tremendous asset to this blog. Your thought provoking posts and the conversation they generate are a large part of what keeps me coming back.
Your conscience is large and whole, and I’m glad of that, hfc. Best love and appreciation to you.
Well since this prolly violates the “No Personal Attacks” rule, the basis for which I’ve been modded tons, but is still there in it’s glory, I’ll suggest the mod staff is on your side.
Oooooh! You know how to use the BOLD button.
I can’t help, but be impressed. And I thought you were a …(Self-Moderator intervenes)…OK. Never mind. Personal attacks of any kind are not allowed on MyFDL. Got it. Won’t go there.
But I will go here. Your reply came across as both snooty and arrogant, and a few more adjectives besides.
One adjective that came to my own mind when I read your reply was “junior high.”
Surely you can do better than that.
Good news is we are not the only ones, and actually in some ways we are coming late to the party with certain types of activism. It is not all that difficult a task or as risky as chaining oneself to an actual fence. Recognizing where one is at in a given moment, allows one move on from there. Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for providing a forum for this discussion. I feel less optimistic than I did at first about the celebrity side of the event, and the Obama rally aspect today was depressing.
For the sake of the 10’s of thousands who showed up, who surely represented a wider range of attitudes, I wish there had been more realism at the podium. But good for them for getting out there today.
As greenwarrior mentioned earlier in the comments, after the rally c-span had comment phone lines open, as they do, with separate numbers for Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. I’m not sure I heard every comment, so I may have missed something, but all the comments both of us heard were opposed to the pipeline or fracking, worried about climate change, and supportive of the rally. Somehow what we need to do is find the ways that the issues, that sometimes seem so obvious to us, can be made real to others. I’m surprised that a climate change rally would have that impact, but yay. I admire the work you do in your community.
Welcome, OmAli; it’s been a great conversation, as so often happens here. I’d reckoned it would be a bit contentious, but most people who objected did so with civility and brought good points to support their points of view. Best to you.
Ohhhhhmmmmmmmmm. ;~)
We’ll see how it unfolds over the next day or two, but hfc may be right that the Photo-op media event (which some coverage called it today) did take all the thunder, though the event today was sad in a way.
But yes, good on them, even though many of them may be feeling let down. Good night, and thank you for bring all the live-blogging you, hfc, gw, and others did. ;o)
What happens only is depressing if one considers sentiment moving to the center depressing. The C-Span phone calls and the success of several local rallies in getting local pols to co-opt them tells me that that there is some momentum building behind this issue. A lot of the tweets from Occupy type people have been positive about the rally; so IMO it is not a time for diviseness or declaring a coalition dead because, yuk, it has a bunch of centrists and showboats in it.
The Wednesday arrests might have diverted the media coverage but media coverage is a means to the end of broadening the movement to stop this pipeline and the the Canadian tar sands exploitation.
In addition there are native rights and property rights issues involved in the push for domestic production of oil and natural gas. In NC this week folks in a 12 sq. mile area of Lee County suddenly realized that the land they bought from Weyerhauser did not include mineral rights. The land just happened to be in the basin that is the only likely frackable deposits of natural gas in NC. It is a Republican area and there are some upset people.
Oh God! Have you got a link for that?
Here’s one, gw.
thanks, wd. i’ll go read.
by the way, did you know we have a state senator in texas named wendy davis?
I did, in fact; and you’re very welcome. Just let my fingers do the clacking… ;~)
Where did you find the tweets of the Occupy types, THD? I haven’t a clue about those thingies; but at least they’re hard to read. ;~)
I’m still trying to get my mind around your coalition: live or dead binary mention. Clearly these two DC events have taken place, and fairly clearly the MSM yawned except for the attention-grabbing headlines of the elite event.
None of know how or why yesterday’s speakers were chosen, but I’d love to have heard the conversations. But two points about the ‘we need any help we can get’ meme, and the same of the coalition and its potential efficacy. I’ll blow by the oft-perceived ‘environmentalists are wealthy libruls’ stuff.
But I will say that imo it’s extremely self-defeating in the long run for an outside force for change that in my opinion, should be on the outside throwing metaphorical rocks at the political class and policy makers, regulators, etc., to be perceived as Democratic insiders, as most of these Bigs are, and the rally yesterday proved. In spades, although no one will be happier than I if that changes, but it has to happen soon.
And I’m pinging strongly on McKibben’s answering a reporter in the last day or two, ‘No, I haven’t spoken with the President since our arrests at the WH’ (or close). Leaving me to wonder again if this movement is actually seen as a grassroots organization, or has been somewhat captured by the D part of the capitalist duopoly, and people see it that way. From what I’ve read, Bill used to know that energy was totally tied into consumerism, and the capitalist need for continual financial growth (not in those specific words).
My other concern you seem to share, and that’s cooptation by pols, but I further than that, I hope that the Indigenous blockaders, etc., don’t allow themselves to be coopted by the mainstream eco groups, and get schmoozed into pulling their punches. But even a couple of the Indigenous women who spoke yesterday seemed to be picking up that theme.
The Ponca Oklahoman…was stupendous. She’s the one who’d asked, ‘Aren’t we all (Idle No More)?’ And when she spoke on stage, tried to really get the crowd to understand that. Will they? I dunno, but most folks in the US sure haven’t so far. Will this help the Great Awakening or neutralize it? Time will tell.
Very late to this party, wendydavis; apologies. But you all have carried on swimmingly in my absence and will do so for future absences – hugely heartening for me!
My fraction of a two cents – the glitz and glamor folk are finally waking up to the fact there’s a huge parade commencing, and they are finally donning those Nieman Marcus jogging shoes and panting to get to the front of the line…
My bet’s on you guys. Yay team! I may not be able to voice my approval on a regular basis, but you’ve got it all the way down the line.
Recommended.
We always miss you when you’re absent, juliania. ‘Neiman Marcus jogging shoes’, lol. Wot? Does Manolo Blahnik make sneakers, too?
Thank you. ;~)
Stands on chair clapping! Excellent rant, nonquixote. Amerika. Ignorance is strength!
I’m curious, Wendy.
How famous is one allowed to be, before one is not supposed to protest?
Was Scarecrow too famous when he was arrested at the protests a couple of years ago? How about Jane? What about Julian Bond at this protest?
For all your words, you never particularly addressed your own question at the beginning of the post: “Do hand-picked celebrity protests help or hurt the eco-movement, especially if they’re staged a few days in advance of ones for everyday people?” Your answer is clearly “hurt”, but nothing you have said explains why you think that.
More than a few of the civil rights protests of the 60s followed this same kind of protest model. Should MLK have stayed away from Birmingham, seeing as how he was an outsider celebrity? That was the charge made against him, which compelled him to write his Letter from a Birmingham Jail. Here was the beginning of his answer:
Say what you will about the celebrities, but they bring media attention — and right now, that’s a big deal. Would you rather they’d have stayed home, and the cameras stayed home as well?
You may have a Protester Purity Standard that these folks failed to meet, but that strikes me as your problem, not theirs.
Part of the question is whether celebrity arrests in this case detracted from the main protest, which occurred days later. It seems different from a situation where the arrests occur at the primary protest and include both famous and rank-and-file protesters.
I have to keep saying that my opinion on this wavers, so I’m just adding thoughts as they occur. I do think (at least at this point in the discussion) that people who participated both in the celebrity component and the Obama-rally aspect, likely include people who may be further radicalized if the pipeline (fracking, mountaintop removal, etc.) are allowed to continue. Maybe we can’t assess the meaning of the style or substance of their protest until we see where it leads them.
I think Wendy did explain why hand-picked celebrity protests can hurt the eco-movement. She said it appears they are trying to help the Democratic Party co-opt it and neuter it, and their Obama banners make a forceful case for that claim.
Where’s that explanation?
She seems much more put off that these folks aren’t everyday people, and that they were hand-picked. Oh, and that they tweet. (I don’t tweet, but if I was at a protest and found myself sitting next to Julian Bond, I’d be pretty damn blown away by the experience, and would be telling folks about it for weeks. At least.)
She labeled this a “Vanity Action”, which I took to mean that these folks were protesting only to get their names in the paper. The label implies that their participation was selfish and self-centered. Where’s the connection between that title and coopting or neutering anything?
After reading it again, I’m inclined to believe she might be right about the label she suggested for herself: egalitarian ideologue.
Thanks wendydavis,
Hi greenwarrior, that’s what I was referring to.
Just watch out for that low frequency noise from those proposed wind power generation plants for the opposite side of the state. Infinitely more dangerous “half-life,” of that noise reverberating from those turbine blades could really adversely affect you. Just ask anybody. ;^)
Oh yeah, and no abortions either, for any reason. Planned Parenthood of WI (who doesn’t perform abortions here) just shut down four state branch offices serving approximately 2K women because of these twits cutting funding by $1M last legislative session.
Where was the media attention yesterday when the VIPs had 45,000 folks rallying with them?
The 1963 March on Washington was permitted and organized to get 250,000. How did Sierra Club and 350.org fall down on that organization skill?
Prior to that march the Southern Christian Leadership Council marched in Birmingham in the face of fire hose and police dogs. There was huge outrage from more established civil rights groups that pushed the media to cover it. Where has that happened with the folks in Texas who have to pay $60,000 bail for chaining themselves to heavy equipment and trying to stop the pipeline?
If Obama is going to block the pipeline, he should stop being coy and step up and block the pipeline and have done with it and the political firestorm that results. The public is on his side. Why the OFA-like symbology about this rally. Was is or was it not an Obama-oriented rally?
Vanity action or not, there is some failure of stategy here. Obama’s golf game with Tiger Woods stepped on the story. So, what was the point of getting 45,000 folks to turn out on a cold Sunday afternoon?
The real question is not whether Celebs are self centered, it is are these type of demos having any real affect on decisions. From what I’ve seen they are mostly ignored especially by Obama who has been convinently out of town for all of them.
Since our leaders are ignoring the pleas of all of these protesters why waste effort dancing around an empty symbol of power. The pipeline is being built in Texas now and the battle is there.
Also replying to TarheelDem @209
Lots of good questions. Too bad none of them were the subject of this post entitled “Tweeting While the World Burns”.
This isn’t a post about strategy and tactics; it’s a rant against the elites, who had the temerity to get arrested ahead of everyone else. She didn’t slam them for bad or ineffective tactics, but for not fitting her image of How Protesters Are To Behave.
If she wants to write a post about tactics, more power to her. But this isn’t that post.
I don’t get that at all. Wendy explains clearly what her suspicions are, and the two obsequious quotes from Kennedy and Brune show the absurdity of the logic the two most prominent figures there are promoting.
I commented on Kevin G’s blog and gave props to Sierra Club for scheduling their protest the day after the liar in chief gave his state of the union address, because coming on the heels of that sales job, the timing seemed to perfectly juxtipose his lip-service de rigueur and his impotency. But now, seeing those two quotes articulated, and knowing they weren’t said in irony, anyone with any common sense should be left with a WTF? expression on his/her face.
Stroking the ego of a man (or to be more precise, the sycophants of the man) who plans to stab you in the back is not a protest, it’s called boot-licking.
Dude, it was STAGED. Staged so that the really, really sophisticated people didn’t have to rub shoulders too much with the Great Unwashed. Staged so that they can feel good about themselves and tout their oh-so-moral superiority at cocktail parties. Staged to show that they know our President is really a good, moral man at heart.
And staged to co-opt a real movement. This was just more kabuki.
When a celebrity goes on the line and puts him or herself out there, I respect that. Like when Danny Glover showed up to support the Hugo Boss strikers in Cleveland, or when the Dixie Chicks publicly denounced the Iraq War to the consternation of many of their fans.
Most of these people you defend are not real allies of the environment; they’re just dilletantes.
I’m surprised you’re taking this position, after rereading the diary I was amazed how usless these people are especially the comments by Kennedy, Brune and Nichols.
Unless you agree with them or just don’t like inconvinent opinions, shared by many others, this appears as just another personal attack.
yes, wow @ 210, the battle is in TX and OK and the celebrity photo ops would be truly helpful if they took place there.
as mentioned in one of the comments, SierraClub just paying the obscene fines/bail for the people who have put their bodies on the line might draw attention to the fact that o’s admin has already approved the southern end of the pipe. i strongly suspect that the obama climate change pep rally is the visible co-option of the xlpipeline protest — it’s VERY remeniscent of the end of Howard Dean’s inclusive 50-state strategy that became the OFA-WH web/campaign site(s).
Large protests are needed at the sites of the ongoing destruction in TX and OK to take the protests to the corps’ where decisions are made rather than to the corps’ DC minions.
I don’t hear those quotes stroking Obama’s ego. I hear them as a kind of backhanded challenge.
Suppose you work in a business and discover proof that the CEO is seriously considering a proposal that would drastically change the whole direction of the company and piss off a lot of the customer base. Maybe even leaning towards it, as it has the potential to make the CEO rather rich and endear the CEO to other rich folks in the community. The media gets wind of this, and starts to sniff around. A reporter comes to you and asks what you know . . .
Option 1: Spill what you know and lay out the proof in all the gory details. “The CEO is leaning toward doing this out of craven self-interest. The CEO doesn’t give a damn about the company, the product, or the customers. The CEO is going to screw you all.”
Option 2: Praise the CEO and try to box the CEO in. “Our CEO loves this company, and loves our product, and loves our customers. Our CEO is a loyal person, who puts truthfulness ahead of making a few bucks. I’m certain our CEO will do the right thing and reject what you’re talking about.”
So what happens? There’s no guarantee that either option will stop the project, but option 1 certainly makes it easier for the CEO to approve it and cash in. The CEOs reputation got screwed by the statement to the reporter, so why not get some big bucks on the way out the door? Where is the incentive for the CEO to decide against the project? Option 2 at least gives the CEO a way out, while at the same time raising the social cost to the CEO of approving the project. “The CEO just got praised by one of the employees like that, and then turned against the company? Incredible!” I’m not saying the CEO would take the path out that option 2 offers, mind you, but that’s the logic of making a positive pitch to someone you are trying to influence, rather than making a negative threat.
But you seem to have made up your mind that no matter what is done, the pipeline will be approved. If so, why bother protesting at all?
Let me ask you, then, why it was staged? What were the kabuki protesters trying to accomplish?
Are you saying they staged a protest in order to get the pipeline approved? How does getting arrested in front of the White House help that to happen?
Or are you agreeing with what I said @207 about Wendy saying these folks just want their names in the papers?
It’s one thing to say they are ineffective in their protest. Many protests involving celebrities are ineffective. Hell, many protests by ordinary folks are ineffective. But Wendy goes farther than that. To me, she is saying they ought not to be there at all. She calls it a Vanity Action, thereby putting it out of the realm of protest and into the realm of celebrity media chasing.
Sorry, but I’m not willing to go that far. Not even close.
We have no influence, and the taste of shoe polish is disgusting.
It may be true that I didn’t exactly answer my own question in the OP, and I’d hate to go back to read the whole thing to make sure. But I did want others to think about it, and test our answers with each others’ perceptions in the comment thread, which did happen.
But I can’t really accept the premise of some of your questions, so what I’ll do first is ask you a few first. And by the way, sorry to be so long; I wake at 3:30, and then sleep a bit in the early afternoon, wake up a bit fuzzy.
Didn’t Scarecrow and Jane get arrested with hundreds of other folks at the White House? Weren’t over a thousand at their protest? Didn’t they actually spend some time in jail, and others as well? Was Scarecrow famous? Certainly and exemplary human full of strong conscience and moral compass, but famous? Jane may have fit that characterization, at least in the blogosphere.
For you and the other participants at the select protest to compare what they risked in comparison to so many in the first civil rights struggle is offensive to me. Even the letter you quote by Dr. King was written from jail where he spent, iirc, eleven days incarcerated. That you casually breeze by is how much skin the Freedom Riders, SNCC, those engaging in *actual civil disobedience*, torment and torture on the streets, hangings…is just plain wrong.
Who of this group risked anything in a pre-planned event media op in which they smilingly chained themselves to the fence, were taken to jail, fined $100 and releases in short order? Keep in mind that it seems that that was the sole day for which the Sierra Club suspended its ‘ya can’t engage in civil disobedience’ rule, never mind this really didn’t qualify, imo.
The larger answer, of course, came the next day when I discovered that few papers carried anything but Matt Daley’s AP version of the story, which was even-handed. The comments were as I’d suspected: predominantly negative, and mainly calling the protestors spoiled, rich liberals (which all weren’t, of course). Then the scheduled, long-awaited gathering, a production that was certainly an Obomba pep rally, and almost no media was present. I kept track, and even today it’s the Wed. event that shows up more often in the google cache.
Did the select event keep people away who might have been planning to go? How about now that the big event was utterly Obomba-logos and supplication? Will non-Dems want to collaborate in actual civil disobedience in Texas and Oklahoma? I just dunno, Peterr.
But I don’t think it’s a question of purity, but whether or not it was strategically useful to have done what they did.
No, Peterr; *you said* that you interpreted what I’d written as that. I said they were self-congratulatory in tasteless ways.
And I admitted already that I’m an egalitarian idealogue; but the degree to which other ordinary would-be protesters are also, may be relevant as well.
The protesters don’t work for the CEO, nor does the community which may be harmed by his decision. He works for us. There’s a debate about tactics here, but this CEO has an obligation to govern for the common good, and citizens have the right to call him out if he doesn’t.
“For you and the other participants at the select protest. . .”
Sorry, but I wasn’t there, and I’m hardly “select”.
By titling this post “Tweeting While the World Burns,” you are casting all the select elite folks as Nero. I might be inclined to agree that their protest was ineffective, but I’m not going to agree that they are part of the Empire and don’t give a damn that things are burning around them.
I asked this of Ohio Barbarian above, and I’ll ask it of you as well. You just called this “a production that was certainly an Obomba pep rally”. The event was calling on Obama to stop KXL, so if Obama does put an end to the pipeline, it’s a success and Obama ought to be cheered for his action. On the other hand, if Obama approves the pipeline, how does a rally asking him to stop it qualify as a pro-Obama pep rally?
How does Obama gain from this rally, if he approves the pipeline?
Yes, those were my words, taken from what you said about it being a Vanity Action. Vanity implies that they were in it only for themselves, not that they were tasteless.
I explained the first part of the title was precisely the title of Michael Connelly’s piece, then why I added the rest.
The event’s talking points seemed utterly scripted to praise a man who has been *anti-environmental* (and no, I won’t give you the list, you should know by now), then praise him for what a great thing it was that he said those words in his SOTU, praise his *moral core* (laughable, imo) and ask him to please get out his pen and write ‘I reject the second phase of the pipleline).
And you didn’t ask one of my questions, Peterr. I would add for the second time that given the commentary here, this is valid question, as are the ones (including Dave Swanson’s new piece) on the Sunday event. The information and opinion brought to this thread have been wonderful, imo.
I would have been blown away by it, too, but you and I and the other regular protesters wouldn’t have had the chance, would we, since he was at the photo event rather than the march. For all I know he might have been at the march, too, but it didn’t get enough coverage for me to know, for sure.
I admire everyone who took part, Wednesday and Sunday, but those “risking arrest” on Wednesday pretty well sucked the air out of what happened on Sunday. I thank them for being there, but it is pretty weak tea compared to the expense, personal indignity and time behind bars experienced by people like Jane, Scarecrow, Tarheel Dem and Barbara Grothus. It pales beside being chained to a bulldozer or clinging to a tree. I imagine it would be pretty hard to tweet under those conditions.
Your use of CEO as an analogy for the president is prescient especially with our corporate controlled government.
Your examples don’t compute though because we the people aren’t really considered shareholders or at least our opinions carry less weight than the actual directors do.
Your last sentence really sums up our situation because large demos have lost any power they once had and are probably a waste of energy. Trying to work with those in power has failed, they refuse to listen.
Hopefully enough of the people who are involved with these demos will make the next step and head for the Great Plains where the Northern section of the pipeline will be built. They will have to dedicate themselves to a much more radical agenda and be willing to maintain a long term blockade.
omali @ 226:
well said! delighted to see your fonts!
Thank you, and I’m always so happy to see yours, as well! I sure enjoyed our email exchanges.
You wrote “I can’t really accept the premise of some of your questions, so what I’ll do first is ask you a few first.”
Yeah, it’s becoming clear that you don’t want to answer my questions. But I’ll answer at least one of your directly, and others by implication.
“Who of this group risked anything in a pre-planned event media op in which they smilingly chained themselves to the fence, were taken to jail, fined $100 and releases in short order?”
You put a lot of stock in what people “risk.” Fine. But let’s be clear about what that word means. For some of these folks, they are putting their whole livelihood on the line. A politician who joins a protest hopes that in doing so, more people will like the fact the politician stood up for X than will turn to their opponents. An actor who protests does so knowing that a director who disagrees with them may choose not to hire them for their next film. A business executive who protests knows that this action may attract some customers and may also piss others off. A pastor who protests does so knowing that some people he or she would like to reach are repelled by the protest. All of these are risks, and are much more of a risk to these folks than a $100 fine.
Which brings me back to King and the Letter from a Birmingham Jail — the comparison that offended you so much.
I didn’t breeze by the costs paid by SNCC, King, and others in Birmingham. I never even got there, because I was struck by your position that these people had no business protesting at the WH, because they were selected elites who were invited in.
You are charging these protesters with doing the same thing that King was accused of by some of the white clergy of Birmingham — breezing into town for their own personal reasons, trying to look good for the cameras, and not coming to actually accomplish anything.
I can see how you would be offended by being lumped in with the people who were opposed to King coming to protest in Birmingham.
You wrote: “The event’s talking points seemed utterly scripted to praise a man who has been *anti-environmental* (and no, I won’t give you the list, you should know by now), then praise him for what a great thing it was that he said those words in his SOTU, praise his *moral core* (laughable, imo) and ask him to please get out his pen and write ‘I reject the second phase of the pipleline).”
Lots of protests are utterly scripted. That’s kind of the point. “Here’s the message we want to get across . . . here’s what we’ll say first . . . second . . . third . . . fourth . . . Here’s how we’ll shape things to make our point clear.”
So the script here appears to me to be designed to try to box Obama in, as I described above. First, say nice things about Obama. Then say nice things about his past, and about his speech. Keep piling on the nice stuff, so that when you get to the “stop this pipeline” punchline, he’s got nowhere to turn. If he doesn’t sign it, then he’s put in the position off not just rejecting the pipeline, but all those nice things that people just said.
This *is* a legitimate tactic, not simply sucking up to Obama in a pep rally. It may work, and it may not (in this case, I’ll bet on “not”), but there is a logic to it that has worked in other protests. Again, to return to King, on more than one occasion, he arrived somewhere to protest and spoke very approvingly of the fine people of (name of town). “You’re such good people, I’m sure you would never dream of pulling out fire hoses and setting dogs on people.” Sometimes it helped; other times not.
Note: I’m saying that in the abstract, positive praise for the person you are trying to influence in a protest can be a legitimate tactic for protesting. I’m not saying it always works, or is always the best tactic to use.
You wrote: “Did the select event keep people away who might have been planning to go? How about now that the big event was utterly Obomba-logos and supplication? Will non-Dems want to collaborate in actual civil disobedience in Texas and Oklahoma? I just dunno, Peterr.”
My answers to those three questions:
I don’t know.
I don’t know.
I doubt it, but I don’t think this event had any effect on whether anyone would collaborate in actual CD in Texas or Oklahoma.
I got the part about the script screwed up trying to edit before submitting. Let me try again:
So the script here appears to me to be designed to try to box Obama in, as I described above. First, say nice things about Obama. Then say nice things about his past, and about his speech. Keep piling on the nice stuff, so that when you get to the “stop this pipeline” punchline, he’s got nowhere to turn. If he doesn’t stop it, then he’s put in the position of not just rejecting the pipeline protesters, but all those nice things that people just said.
Nowhere in your litany do I see anything even remotely resembling the risks taken by ordinary people who get arrested and held for many hours or days or weeks, who don’t have the money to post bail, who don’t know in advance what sort of fine or jail time they might be facing, who put their bodies on the line knowing that they might get beaten or abused. Nowhere do I see mention of the people who might lose their job and never find another, who might lose many days’ pay and end up homeless. The risks you mention are ones that the elites can easily bear and it’s one of the reasons that people don’t take them too seriously.
Furthermore, the Sierra Club made a huge deal of this “historic day” when they “suspended their rules against civil disobedience” and that’s what the dutiful stenographers in the MSM copied down. Did you see firehoses, or dogs, or tear gas? Did you even see a single riot cop? You know, the “optics” of civil disobedience for ordinary people? No, you saw smiling celebrities with Obama banners.
I do have to second the people who agreed with your CEO comparison. That’s quite apt; it’s too bad we are supposed to be living in a democracy where the elected officials work for us. The truth is, if the CEO even notices us at all, he’ll just call us “fucking retards” and go about his business. Yesterday his business was playing golf with other celebrities and Jim Crane, the Texas businessman who is involved in fossil fuel industries.
We seem to be at an impasse then, Peterr. I can’t begin to imagine that this corporate President could be ‘boxed in’ by those kind platitudes, especially given that most of them held placards with his stylized logo. If he was able to skitter away from the issue by post-poning his decision until after the election, and most all the big eco NGOs and their membership voted for him, what leverage is there now? Appealing to whatever might make him feel ‘boxed in’? I don’t get it.
Yes, I agree, Dr. King strove mightily to love his enemies, and to accord them respect they certainly didn’t earn. But remember that his choice of non-violent civil disobedience didn’t come from weakness, but strength, and the added value of the cautionary tales of the Black Panthers, et.al. To me McKibben, Brune, et.al. are ceding any power by treating him as a moral human who hasn’t sold out the planet and the welfare of the people over and over, and yet hope to reach his…conscience?
I just don’t subscribe to this point of view, nor most of your criticisms of either this piece or the many here who have serious reservations about how either event was staged.
Upthread I said that it will give him cover to approve the permit, then offer some bones contained in the Boxer/Sanders climate change bill, but they bones and crumbs will again aid industry, as always. So…we’ll stay tuned, and hope that people power can make a difference somehow, whether protesting at the offices of TransCanada, their congress-critters, or at the blockades. It’s not possible for me to urge them to risk arrest and enormous fines since I can’t do the same.
I gotta make dinner and do some other chores, but thank you for your comments and discussion.
That was simply marvelous. It was an honour to read it.
Thank you – obviously these last few comments have touched a nerve for me and helped clarify what I found so distasteful about the elitist behavior that prompted wendydavis to post this diary. I don’t think a single person here is criticizing anyone, from Julian Bond and Darryl Hannah to the 50,000 ordinary people at the rally yesterday, for participating and caring and trying to make a difference. I have mad respect for that. And as I mentioned way, way upthread, many of the people we are referring to as “elites” have indeed risked much more than bad PR and have been in the trenches. But the events on Wednesday and yesterday were very carefully and intentionally scripted and staged so as not to be too offensive to the CEOs of both the Sierra Club and US of A. The notion that, at this late date, we should be polite and ask nice when we are talking about trying to save the world for our grandchildren fills me with despair.
That pretty well sums it up. (((HFC)))
Thank you, Wendy, and all who participated.
Have to say good night.
Ohmmmm
How does this protest give him cover to approve the permit?
Various people have said this in one way or another, but no one will explain to me how this works.
Wendy’s post is about the elites, and she asked specifically about these folks and what they risked. I answered her. She implied that since these elites are wealthy and can easily afford a $100 fine, they risked nothing. I disagreed.
We should have added to your list of risks: They’ll look stupid when Obama approves that pipeline anyway, and even stupider when they continue to support him and the Democrats no matter what.
Thank you for this and your previous comment. Both have helped clarify the issue for me.
That’s some clever twisted logic comparing Wendy with racist White clergy in the Jim Crow South.
I wasn’t comparing her with racist White clergy, but with the white clergy who agreed with King’s objective but disagreed with his tactics. Those are the folks King was writing to from the Birmingham jail.
Thank you Peterr. Honest and compelling.
On further consideration, the, “celebrities,” mentioned had a goal in mind, to save face, their own. “We stood up to Obama, but he still wouldn’t listen, but we save our environmental creds, see.”
Lisa Jackson left the EPA because Oilbomba already made up his mind to go ahead with this and the southern leg would not have proceeded under conditions of business, “uncertainty.”
Good points.
Peterr asks above,
I don’t think he cares about cover. Has he cared about any other broken promise? Now that he has been reelected he could care even less.
And…
We stood up so politely, even though we broke our rule not to be disobedient.”
I wonder how many members the Sierra Club is losing because of frustration with this administration and the
lack of progressregression on so many fronts.That is an excellent point; the protest certainly gives the Sierra Club cover since they made their heroic stand on President’s Day. Perhaps they should have considered suspending their rules against civil disobedience until the pipeline project was shut down, and, as others here have suggested, vowed to send people and money to the front lines. They could still do that . . . does anybody here think they will?
What about the people who continue to think that Obama does his best but just doesn’t have the votes or the power or whatever it is they think the Leader of the Free World might be lacking that keeps him from being able to do the things his base elected him to do? What they saw on TV was a whole bunch of people out there with banners emblazoned with what looked like an Obama logo that said “Forward on Climate Change.” For all they know, Obama is doing everything he can and yet those dang Republicans are prolly gonna get their pipeline anyway.
The Obamists can also take credit for whatever fig leaf may come with the approval of the pipeline – we didn’t stop the pipeline but we got xyz. Then we can hear about how stopping the pipeline was a sparkle pony and don’t we care about the people who benefit from xyz? And then when xyz turns out to be a sham too…..
As Dr. Who says, “I know”.
Sad as it sounds, some small place in my heart wanted to believe that he would put down that golf club and put on his comfortable walking shoes and march …
I know how you feel. Today I read Al Gore’s interview in Rolling Stone (can’t link to it, you have to have a subscription). He talks about his newest book, The Future, and how we won’t have one if we don’t deal with climate change and global greed, well, soon. I found myself imagining a parallel world in which President Gore put the brakes on some of this madness 12 years ago and maybe saved the planet. I know that’s probably giving him too much credit, but it’s hard not to have some nostalgia for those good old days of denial. (The 2000 election was probably the same sort of moment for me as the Kennedy assassination was for my parents’ generation: OK, this is it, I see behind the curtain.)
You apparently are clueless about the role played by the White Clergy in the South especially the Evangelicals. While these preachers may not have been outwardly racist they were using racist codewords like law and order to stop MLK from stiring up their Negroes. They lead racist congregations and were at best cowardly in their response to the Civil Rights Movement.
An interesting footnote to this story is that all eight moved their churches to the suburbs following integration in the South.
All that I’ve managed was scanning most of the comments after my last one, but clearly there has been quite an evolution of thought and perception here over the past three days.
Special chuckles for many of the most recent comments, and hfc, you sizzled. Some of the thinking evolved even a notch past my own skepticism/cynicism, especially about ‘whose cover’ the events may have provided.
Thank you all so much for your thoughts, beliefs, and for caring so desperately about this issue and the planet whose stewardship was collectively ours, and whose fate may already be decided. That concern was hopefully what led us to try to bring light to parsing this week’s protest hopes and disappointments enough to bring 253 comments.
Sleep well, dream well, give light and love to those in your circle of friends…and beyond when you’re able.
wd
I will leave you with just one of the things that makes our planet of light and love worth saving: penguin nurseries.