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The one card Governor Scott Walker has to play is calling out the national guard, but what if protesters beat him to the punch?
If you know someone in the guard ask them if they will obey the order to disperse or even fire on their friends and neighbors, and what kind state they think they’d end up living in if they did. Then post their replies to blogs or here, anonymously if they want or with their names if they are willing.
It would be a good question for capitol and state police as well.
Reporters should be asking guard commanders the same question. (I’m going to email or call later today).
Even if they say they. Will follow orders, it will plant a seed of doubt.
If someone says they won’t follow the orders, I would challenge them to join the protest in uniform–which would be a good idea for veterans among protesters right now. If the right doesn’t mind calling teachers and other public workers lazy pigs, it will a lot harder for them to do if it makes them look like they aren’t ”supporting the troops.”
Maybe if you know a someone in the military in Iraq or Afghanistan, especially public workers deployed in the guard, you could get video clips of statements of support.
We need to do more than beat the right here–we need to make them afraid to bash public workers and union bash ever again. We should make them BEG for the privilege to vote for the Employee Free Choice Act. This needs to be their Waterloo, and we need the troops on our side to d
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I heard several people say, “Who does he think will come”? the guard is made up of the teachers, the police, the fire fighters and the husbands, brothers, sister, wives, mothers. fathers of the union members he is trying to screw. But I also heard that he had called the guard back from Iraq, but it may have been a rumor.
I went to the guard website, and it said something about returning troops, but I don’t think he has the authority to call them back once they have been “nationalized.”
I like this diary! Recommended.
Arrogant classists like Walker always underestimate the ability of ordinary soldiers to think for themselves. He thinks he’s better and smarter than those stupid peons who signed up for the Guard, and it shows. After all, he’s well-off, thereby proving his superiority.
Hosni Mubarak called out the Army. That went well. But the Cheesehead Pharaoh, as some of the demonstrators are calling him, does not see the parallel.
Maybe Hosni Walker doesn’t realize not everyone is a far right totalitarian conservative.
He can get the people at c pac to goosestep and march on a dime and murder liberals, but if he tried giving that kind of order to human beings then the guard might just disappear him.
No guardsmen no policeman wants to get caught firing into a crowd or beating unarmed white people on camera and in a country where everyone has a cell phone camera.
Well no guardsman wants to share a cell with Lynndie England
She was paroled on March 1, 2007, after having served 521 days.[11] She remained on parole through September 2008, when her three-year sentence was complete and she received a dishonorable discharge.
Graner, the ringleader of the abuse, was convicted on all charges and sentenced to 10 years in prison.[1] Four guards and two low-level military intelligence officers have made plea deals in the case. Their sentences ranged from no time to 8½ years. No officers have gone to trial, though several received administrative punishment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynndie_England
Note no officers went to trial I doubt anybody in the Guard or the police want to do time to protect the Governor.
Also these were Iraq’s who were abused White Middle Class Protesters in Wisconsin get beat up let alone shot at and they will call their lawyers, if they got photos of their getting abused that makes the case a slam dunk.
Heck photos of their injuries at a hospital makes their case a slam dunk.
The State of Wisconsin could go broke just from the lawsuits.
Recommended.
{ Looks like there is a bit more you meant to write at the bottom of your post but it looks like it got cut off. }
Scott is talking about calling in the national guard to preform the duties of the public sector workers if they strike. He is not talking at all about using them to suppress the protests. I know that other idea is more fun for revolutionary ideas, but it just ain’t so, at least not yet.
I think a valid premise is missing here.
Generally Walker will let this age like fine wine. That’s where his advantage resides. So the Guard may be used for more plebian duties, other than shooting people.
There aren’t a whole lot of the Guard to spread around anyway, so one can wonder how their duties would be assigned and where. Come to think of it, that may not really matter. Using the Guard to “fill in” at almost anything will be used to show Walker is serious. One wild card might be that some other nearby (newly red?) state might “loan” some of its own guard members to assist Walker’s effort.
Now, wouldn’t that scenario be a you-know-what in the punchbowl?
I do not agree at all about what Walker meant. See the discussion in the comments on:
http://my.firedoglake.com/casualobserver/2011/02/20/wisconsin-law-enforcement-union-tragic-mistake-to-endorse-walker/
(That post is worth reading for many other reasons as well.)
It is definitely not a rumor. I posted about it yesterday. About 300 of the 400 WI guardsmen returned on Friday.
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20110217/WDH0101/302180012/Updated-Wis-soldiers-back-in-Wis-tomorrow
Check out this story about Nancy Genovese who obtained a $ 70 million default judgment against Southhampton (NY). She had been charged with taking a photo of a helicopter outside a National Guard base.
http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/Southampton/324209/Southampton-Town-Board-Accepts-Town-Attorneys-Resignation
It seems more and more law enforcement officers are becoming downright paranoid in fighting the War on Terror. We the People are the new targets.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the protesters aren’t Guardsmen and women who joined the people at the capitol when they had some time off. Certainly, being state and federal workers (Obama froze their salaries, remember), they are more empathetic to the plight of their neighbors than they are to the Governor. Many of the people in the Guard are barely getting by after repeated deployments. That’s why those payday loan places are located around Forts and Camps.
No, that bozo doesn’t have the authority to recall troops who have been federalized.
Geez, that had nothing to do with Governor Walker. Those troops were scheduled to come home long ago.
How can members of the WI National Guard fill in for all those teachers since they aren’t certified to teach? And as far as the other jobs would go, they can’t do much but answer phones and say: “I don’t know.” They wouldn’t have the expertise to do much but sit there. Furthermore, I don’t think the AG (Adjutant General) would appreciate his troops being used in that capacity…if indeed it’s even legally possible for the governor or the AG to deploy the men and women that capacity. And remember, most Guardsmen and women have their own daytime jobs. Full time (federal) Guardsmen also have their own jobs right there at the base.
Furthermore, despite the common perception that state workers jobs are easy, they aren’t: the language, the computer skills, the acronyms, the bureaucratic red tape–it takes a long time to learn those jobs, just like in any profession.
I wouldn’t spend a lot of effort compiling a list of what the Guard can’t do — it is, after all, a long list but that isn’t especially the point. There are plenty of things which don’t require a lot of expertise, such as driving a vechicle, opening and closing buildings. Maybe even “baby sitting” at a school, who knows?
The AG reports to the Gov, and what the AG might not appreciate isn’t an issue in that chain of command. A callup has legal wickets to provide for most emergencies regardless of whether they are caused by mother nature or other humans. Guard members are protected in that case regarding their day jobs. Even if a few of them happen to be teachers, they have to show up.
The lack of teachers in the classroom may actually turn out to be the least of the problems for the Gov, and the largest problem for the teachers and union going forward.
There is a group called ‘the oathkeepers’, they have or at least used to have a website by that name, who have sworn never to fire on or arrest US citizens. They are police, national guardsmen and regular military. And you might ask why they exist. Go to their website and find out. If our fascist government hasn’t disappeared them…
“The AG reports to the Gov, and what the AG might not appreciate isn’t an issue in that chain of command.”
That’s true. However, I don’t think an inexperienced Governor wants an AG who is critical of his decisions, chain of command or not. There’s a lot of federal money flowing into the state because of the Guard.
Yes, Guard members are protected in their jobs, but I have never heard of National Guard members taking over the jobs of state workers by order of the Governor. Have you heard of such a situation?
“The lack of teachers in the classroom may actually turn out to be the least of the problems for the Gov, and the largest problem for the teachers and union going forward.”
I don’t believe that statement at all. It’s obvious the people of Wisconsin support the teachers and not the Governor. Why is the lack of teachers the least of the Governor’s problems?
“Maybe even “baby sitting” at a school, who knows?”
You think that counts as a school day? It doesn’t.
Remember the guard could be subcontractors such as the Halliburton group who killed 5 innocent Iraq civilians.
Well, I spent 20 years in the military and surmise the AG isn’t going to get into any public tiff with his Gov. They will talk a lot behind closed doors, of course, and the Gov will decide each time. That’s about it.
I think the orders would be to perform certain tasks, rather than a context to “take over” someone’s job.
One thing Obama could do which nobody here has thought of (?) — Federalize the WI Guard and issue orders from DC. I think he’d never do it, suicidal, since I also think this is a losing proposition for Dems for the gitgo. Maybe I’m wrong about that.
Regarding the last two sentences, I don’t agree anything about public support is obvious at all. My hunch is it’s no a winner for the teachers, but time will tell. The smartest lemmings take a detour, and regroup.
Events will take their own course regardless of our wishes.
Perhaps we should consider freezing Walker’s assets just in case he decides to flee the country?
No, it doesn’t. I was being facetious.
Yet any Guard usage of some even frivolous sorts would provide the Gov some photo ops, and schools would not be the best site for that. Whatever you may think of Walker, he isn’t stupid.
They are hard right wing.
Ha! Anonymous, where are you?